Why be nice to the dead?

[Andrew]

So fucking true. I don't see any need in being extra nice about people just because they died.

Belinda Emmett was a fucking bitch when I met her. Just because she's dead now, people are shocked I say she was a bitch.

[Heald]

Yeah, because people really say nice things about Mussolini, Stalin, Reagan, Nixon, Pol Pot, or many of the other thousands of history's biggest dicks.

If this is about why people got angry at you for dissing Leslie Nielsen, it wasn't because he was dead that people got pissed off, it was because you were being an asshole.

[Zak]

Yeah, I definitely agree that people make a huge deal over shit like that. I mean, I remember when Heath Ledger died, yeah, sure, he was great and all, but GOD FORBID anyone say anything negative about him. Well, I do remember people making a big deal about how they were gonna reference Health Ledger in Disaster Movie (which deserves shit thrown at it anyway, but that's another story) and more yet, make fun of the incident which caused his death. Yes, that wouldn't be very cool, seeing as he's got a little girl and all. But that's a MOVIE that a lot of people are gonna see. Talking shit about them on the internet or in conversation, nothing wrong with that.

It seems that the only dead folk people can shamelessly talk shit about are like Hitler, Stalin, Saddam, Arafat and other world leaders or politicians. I guess if a president died or something, it would be justifiable as they actually affect people's life.

Thing is, if it's just someone in the entertainment industry, sure, people shouldn't be afraid to express their honest opinions and pretend to like them when you don't. But going out of your way to be a provocative douchebag is just screaming for attention or to have a gun pointed at you. Because I mean what's the point? I mean, in your case, you said you met this Belinda person (I have no idea who that is btw) and she was a bitch, so yeah, feel free to shit on her all you want. But to go out of your way to be like that just because the person was "talentless" or "not funny" is just silly and attention whoring, and clear desperation for a reaction.

EDIT: Heald posted at the same time as me much shorter and to the point.

[Blademaster]

I still wanna know what Andrew said in that topic.

[kurai]

for the same reason that you should be nice to people who are alive (that all share the common condition of living), you should be nice to people who are dead because all will die. but more so, since those who are dead can not defend themselves, and you too will one day be judged without capacity for your own intervention.

if you interpret existence as a nihilistic void, you can of course make claims about anyone with no regard to social mores, since neither convention, nor the deceased, nor their actions have any ultimate meaning. but everyone probably hates you anyway if you are willing to go this far beyond humanity (仁)

[Telume]

Put it like this: If you're a nice person when you were alive and a good actor people will say nice things about you.

You could be the greatest actor in the world but, if you were a dick, then people will likely only ever talk about your acting ability, not your personality.

And even then, you'll probably never be thought of as the nicest person who ever lived. Respect for the dead? Sure. Respect for a good actor? Sure. Respect for a dickwad? Probably never.

[Andrew]

Also my grandmother was a nasty piece of work. I'm glad she's gone.

[shazza]

No human are without their faults – and the extent of these faults are solely up to the individual judging them. One individual may not get along with another individual, for the individual – or both of their – negative qualities are more prevalent in the eye of the beholder, and do not match up to our social expectations of a potential friend. This individuals faults, however, may be perceived as an enjoyable trait in another individual, resulting in a long lasting friendship. Or they might notice other affable traits which outweigh any negative traits. The quality of human being is often subjective based on your own experiences. People connect. Others don’t. Such is life.

I feel it must be noted that in social groups if an influential individual or group casts another individual as inferior, that association will soon be widespread. For example, I have personally never met Adolf Hitler, however I have been persistently informed since birth that he was an “evil” man, backed up with supporting evidence – now when I think of Adolf Hitler, the terms evil, Holocaust, suicide, World War II, concentration camps etc are the automatic thoughts. Another example closer to home: Heracross has posted mediocre topics at best, however I purposely began berating him to make him out to be nothing but irritating. Soon others followed. While I am convinced that is an accurate assessment, he is now closely -- and only -- associated with such negative connotations, making him retaliate in a similar fashion, resulting in a never ending cycle. In actuality, I am sure he is far more complex than that. I don’t actually have anything against him, and if he were to die I would be sad for both his family and that someone I have had direct communication is no longer with us.

Belinda Emmett may have been a bitch to you, that is your perceived experience which you are entitled to, but I sincerely doubt she had the sole intention of being a bitch: she may have been in a hurry, annoyed talking to many people, tired, sick, or generally in a bad mood. Everyone has bad days! But I am pretty sure she is human, making her complex and contradictory, exhibiting a myriad of personality traits both good and bad – dependent on who she interacted with, the time of day, her state of mind, previous experiences etc.

In regards to your grandmother, that’s fine to have these thoughts, but there’s no point bringing it up constantly. I miss my mother that words cannot express, but I can also think of some personal aspects that I don’t miss about her.

I’m a big fan of Chasers, and I do agree that overly revering a deceased is irritating, but purely insulting them is so much worse. As we have now established, most individuals come with both good and bad qualities, so to reminisce of their finer qualities is a far more urbane way of going out. And yes, it’s normal for once someone we love dies, we begin to think of their only good qualities; since we are missing them, we are thinking of only the good qualities that we miss for. The negative qualities become redundant. Our human nature to find the beauty inside imperfection resonates. That’s the nature of things. In regards to public figures being revered by the media who have passed on: that’s just how it goes, and I cannot imagine it being any other way. As aforementioned, people have complex traits, and people deserve not to be insulted in such a public fashion. Besides, most people are innately good in the long run and deserve to go out as thought as such. Those like Michael Jackson who had a controversial past deserve the dignity of respect, but at the same time to not ignore his previous controversies; they were not ignored.

But essentially, as kurai noted, once someone dies, they cannot defend themselves. You don’t gain anything out at insulting the dead (and there’s a difference between smart satire); all you do is appear a bad person yourself, and hurting those that love and miss them. They are now a part of history, no longer of existence, so too should your thoughts about them remain as history and need not be brought up rigorously once they have passed on. It’s fine to not have a rose coloured view of someone who has passed on, but since you do not gain anything out of expressing your opinions on someone of the past, you gain nothing out of it except by being an asshole. And it’s about respect: you may not have liked them personally, but they are no longer here to defend themselves, and every human regardless of your subjective thoughts about them deserve that. If you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all.

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

[Andrew]

Politically correct goodie-goodies.

[Blademaster]

Anybody...?

[Little_Pikachu]

It's just something that happens isn't it. I think it's because when someone dies you realise you're never going to see them again and how much you may have taken their life for granted, so people focus on the good parts rather than the bad aspects of their life.

With celebrities, there's usually more bad press about them than there is good, so sometimes we lose sight of what they have actually done for their respective industries, and it isn't until they die then we get the chance to reflect on the positive impact they have had on the world.

But if you never actually liked someone I don't see why you should have to drop all your opinions and suddenly think they were amazing just because they're dead, but you should respect the opinions of people who may be upset about it and maybe tone your hate down for their sake.

[Gavin Luper]

Shazza's post wins the day ... well said mate.

I also absolutely loved the Eulogy song when it came out a few years ago - very funny shit and a great satire of this apparently universal trend.