Bat Beating?

[Deadwood_Zen]

So... Someone I know on Facebook and I got in an "arguement" on his status. Well, it was me against everyone else and I lost. Okay, so apparently a bat found its way into his house(he lives in New York state btw) a few days ago. His solution to this is to capture it in a blanket, and then have his brother film him and his friends beating it. Yes, it will be going on Facebook.

I suggested to just let the poor creature out after capturing it, and save the trouble, and that killing a helpless, sentient creature isn't humane or even human at all. It all fell on deaf ears, and now there is nothing I can do but rant about this on the internet knowing that this creature's doom is foretold and that I am helpless to save it.

Yes, I know I may be considered "at a bias" for my animal rights pro-activism and all(6 years vegetarian and supporting equal rights for ALL sentient beings), but still. Even if your not a vegetarian, can't you see something wrong with this?! D:

[classy_cat18]

Okay, I'm not a vegetarian. But I still see this as cruel. Plus why would they want to waste time doing that anyway? What kind of sick person thinks of beating a bat as something fun to put up on the internet? That's below Jackass level!

And I know how you feel. My mom's reaction to finding a snake in the yard is to call one of my male relatives to shoot it, even if it might be harmless (I don't think we've ever had a venomous snake in our yard). Got so tired of it that one time a snake slithered right in front of me while Mom was within shouting distance and I didn't say a thing. I let it go, and no one saw it again.

[Deadwood_Zen]

See? That's all it takes sometimes. I'm not going to lie here, but I am scared beyond belief of spiders. I didn't shower for 4 days straight this weekend because there was a spider in the corner, and my head was going to hit its web. I still refuse to kill them. I'll capture them in a cup and a piece of paper and throw them somewhere in the back or front yard. No harm done!

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

That's sick. Killing an animal is sometimes OK, like ending its pain, yes, I think they feel pain, but this is torturing. You win the argument here.

[mattbcl]

I'm totally with you on this one, that's completely deranged.

[DarkestLight]

Ok. No. Killing the bat is just stupid. Most animals I usually don't flinch about letting on on their own merry way.

'Cept roaches. Roaches have to die :/

[Blademaster]

If you live close to these "people," go beat their shit in and free the poor thing. Then throw the blanket on them, grab a baseball bat, and introduce them to my good friend Karma.

EDIT: Just saw that they live in New York. Darkly, you go stand-in for Deadwood.

[Shadow Wolf]

I don't know if you've seen the movie "Powder" (about a pale guy who came from space, I believe). I remember a scene on that movie where he touched a deer dying of a shot and somehow "passed" the pain to the one who shot the deer. I wish you could somehow do that to them. (of course, that's somehow revenge, so I don't 100% approve)

In any case, that is inhuman, period. I'm forced to kill mosquitoes and ants when they attack in group. But killing animals that will probably do nothing to you is sick. Just as sick as killing a person who hasn't done anything to you.

[mymyilikepie]

That's animal abuse. Maybe you should call the police. Actually just threaten to and they might stop

[Drago]

If they are actually dumb enough to film it, then you have evidence.

[Deadwood_Zen]

I was planning to send it someone. Hell, I'd make sure peta2 would get that shit.

[Deadwood_Zen]

Just checked. Bat got away last night, but they found it later. Chopped off it's head.

Fucking assholes.

[mymyilikepie]

NOO!!! I THOUGHT THE BAT ESCAPED!!!! THOSE FUCKING DICKS!!!!!!!
The poor bat

[RedStarWarrior]

I agree that they shouldn't have beaten it (and if they put the video up, you should report it), but a bat is NOT sentient.

Also, the smart person would have posted a link to the status so we could rape it.

[Deadwood_Zen]

a bat is NOT sentient.

I'm with Blademaster on this one. You really don't want to get in this debate, do you?

[Asilynne]

I don't support PETA and I love eating animals, but killing any living thing for no reason is fucked up and wrong. Plus bats are harmless to people, and they are actually good to people because some bats feed primarily on insects which keeps them from multiplying and annoying us all. I love bats and those people who derive pleasure from ending the existence of another living creature have issues. Many serial killers start out by torturing and killing animals...just saying.

[Blademaster]

Just checked. Bat got away last night, but they found it later. Chopped off it's head.

Fucking assholes.

Wait, what? How'd they find it if it got away? Bats can fly.

a bat is NOT sentient.

Slipperyslopeslipperyslopeslipperyslopeslipperyslo pe.

Plus bats are harmless to people

Not entirely. As much as I love bats, there is at least one species of vampire bat that has been known to attack people. The little buggers can also induce rabies.

Just sayin'.

[Deadwood_Zen]

The bat flew into the upper parts of the house. Must've climbed or knocked it down later.

[Asilynne]

I should say MOST bats are harmless to people then

And as far as sentience goes, I think RSW is going by the definition that we learned in school-- that Sentience is the ability to have a sense of ones self, recognizing that the image of itself in a photo or a mirror is them and not another animal (you'll notice how most animals, like dogs and birds, can see a mirror image of themselves and treat it as if they believed it was a wholly different animal). Sentience is also having a grasp of the concept of past, present and future. According to this definition, humans and a select few animals (such as elephants and possibly dolphins) are sentient, because most animals have not been observed to be aware of these things.

Even with this definition though its impossible to prove with 100% accuracy that other animals are not sentient according to this meaning, its just that we have not observed any evidence to suggest it.

When I googled "scientific definition of sentience" to find a link to the definition of sentience that I had learned back in the olden days >.> I could only find one on the first page: http://www.ehow.com/facts_6926244_se...efinition.html

Which leads me to believe that the definition in these 10 or so years has evolved into meaning something else, which Wikipedia says is: "Sentience is the ability to feel, or perceive, or be conscious, or have subjective experiences." This is really quite vague though, and leaves it open for all animals to be sentient, it could even be argued that trees and other plants could be sentient according to that definition.

I can't speak for RSW about which definition he was giving an opinion about, just saying that the definition of Sentience has changed over time. I believe most animals are capable of emotion and feeling, but I believe very few are actually capable of having a sense of self, or being self aware.

However I reiterate my point that having a lack of self awareness does not automatically mean that they can be carelessly killed or tortured

[Deadwood_Zen]

"I think, therefore I am", no? If animals can think independently and know they exist, that is sentience.

[Asilynne]

There is no way to prove or disprove whether or not an animal is aware of its own existence, or whether or not its actions and reactions are brought about by instinct and simply responding to stimuli. Believe me I'm not saying its impossible that many animals are aware of their own existence, but so far we have only observed evidence of such awareness in a very select group of animals. Not even in dogs and cats, its thought that they have emotions and that they can dream, but so far there is no evidence that they have a sense of self or are aware of their existence in the same way we are

[Lady Vulpix]

This isn't about what the word "sentient" means or how deep a bat's thoughts can be. You beat it, it hurts. Everyone knows that, and it is cruel.

[Dark-San]

Whether your friends did it at the moment of impulse, it does not matter anymore like you had said. They took the bat down and killed it. That is all that happened. So even as a friend or someone close to them, you should have already reported it to a nearby anti-animal cruelty association. And this association will probably know the legal way to press charges against them! Cops sometimes do nothing, they will sometimes brush it off or close one eye *I presumed*

An interesting food for thought is that they are lucky that they don't live in any Islamic state! Remember they have one rule, 'Do not do onto others if you do not want the same thing to befall onto you'? I believed it is something close to that. So if you get caught something the same thing over there, they might consider chopping off your head too. :x

[Little_Pikachu]

I like bats, they have cute little noses. Even if I didn't though, that guy is a dick for what he did. You should report it to whatever your local version of the RSPCA is, they do take this sort of thing seriously. A while back somewhere in England someone stabbed a pigeon with a pencil, it made front page news and they went on a proper manhunt trying to track down the person who did it and bring him to justice.

[Blademaster]

I like bats, they have cute little noses.

MOUSTACHE BAT.

[Little_Pikachu]

MOUSTACHE BAT.

Give it a monocle and a top hat and he can be a gentleman

[Deadwood_Zen]

Give it a monocle and a top hat and he can be a gentleman

[Telume]

I'm not much of an animal rights activist but, I'm pretty damn sure animals can feel pain. I'm sure he wouldn't like it very much if someone intentionally rammed him with a car just because he was in the middle of the street.

[Little_Pikachu]

Gentleman bat!! I approve!

[Asilynne]

He's so handsome! *swoons*

[Magmar]

Bats are super cute and, like birds, have their place in the animal kingdom. I too am petrified of spiders, mostly due to a (here comes the Freud!) childhood incident when I was 7, where I was locked in my bedroom overnight by my mother, and there was a huge spider in my room and she wouldn't let me out. I had a cute magnet board my grandma got me that had my name on it, and this huge hairy mofo just crawled across it while I was like two feet away, and I freaked out and tried to get out. I slept in the closet.

We've had a few of those nasty tarantula-sized bastards in that house. I think they lived in the basement. One time I was taking laundry out of the dryer (I was 8 or 9 years old) and a humongous spider crawled out of a minnie mouse sweater my sister had. I became terrified of doing laundry. This time my mom grabbed the ShopVac (a wet-dry vacuum) and sucked it up because it was too huge to squish, then we threw it out in the street and left it alone until my father eventually came home. Nobody in my family can deal with spiders!

As much as spiders and bats may have similar levels of sentience, I'm too afraid of spiders to actually hurt/kill them even from a distance with a shoe or something and I wouldn't harm anything else. The only thing I swat at are flies that get in the kitchen when the idiots downstairs put the waste receptacles beneath the kitchen window, and even then, I try to smack them around in the air in the general direction of an open window just to get rid of them, and as a last resort, bust out the bug spray. Everything in nature has its place