Emphasis on the characters...

[Mew2Too]

I came up with this one in another thread. However, I really feel that this though I express is very important to the emphasis we place on the characters in Pokemon. I wanted it to have its own thread so I could get more replies to it - more opinions. After all, not everyone would have visited the other thread as will probably visit this new one.

So, my question is, alot of people feel Pokemon is a show made for kids. There is no true value put on character or continuity from show to show. So, here's what I had to say.

Originally posted by Mew2Too
They should dump Pikachu. He's been around far too long, and he's a really dusty character. To make things fresher, they should get one of those Houen + and - Pichu things to be Ash's new Pokemon. We don't have to notice Pikachu is gone. The two look enough alike people really shouldn't care. Plus, we could recycle Pika's personality and make the Pichu thing not far off from Pikachu. Meanwhile, it would have enough uniqueness so we could actually get a more fresh story out of it. Is there anything wrong with doing that?

So, tell me how you feel about that. Do you think it's wrong? Do you think it's right? Why do you feel that way? Go ahead, speak your mind. I'm listening.

[RaichuRocks]

theres one thing I can say about this:

Thunderstone


the fact of the matter is:

Pikachu is losing more battles against non-Team Rocket members

having him evolve and allowing Ash to put it in a pokeball will solve the problem of Pikachu being a dusty character plus it erases the idea of Ash carrying a Raichu on his shoulder^^

plus it lets other pokemon in his team get the spotlight

Bayleef was kicking butt instead of Pikachu in Gym Battles, but then he gave it to Oak.

The Pikachu thing is getting old anyways

All it does nowadays is shock Team Rocket

the big icon of pokemon must evolve to insure a different story

The stone evolvers aren't always made just for battling, there are also wild stone evolvers

or they could give Haruka a Pichu and she could train it and make it a Raichu to rival his Pikachu

[The Rusted One]

Well, I'd quite like to see either Pikachu AND either Mainan or Purasuru, or Mainan and Purasuru together instead of Pikachu. Perhaps Pikachu, Mainan and Purasuru together, although that leaves only three more places in Ash's line-up. HOWEVER, maybe they could keep Pikachu and have Purasuru and Mainan follow the group around, much like Jigglypuff? It could work; and I doubt they would ever get rid of Pikachu - so I doubt just Purasuru and Mainan would even be an option if they were to do any of what I have just suggested.

[BenRG]

Pikachu is the primary marketing image of all incarnations of Pokémon right now. The chances of them writing him out of the animé are significantly less that the chances of them having Ash 'come out' as a cross-dressing girl.

That aside, I have noticed that Pikachu is beginning to have problems in facing other Trainers' Pokémon. Just look at his performance in Johto, for example. He only won two bouts, IIRC, verses a powerful Furret and against a Keckleon. This could be cured if Ash had the courage to train Pikachu in some non-standard attacks to cover its' weak spots (low Defence, despite being around lv.70+ now).

I am sure that Ash will only evolve Pikachu into a Raichu at the climax of the story, perhaps in the battle for the title of Pokémon Master. However, that doesn't stop Pikachu from learning a few moves like Reflect, Light Screen and Flash to boost its' combat survivability. Or even something exotic like Iron Tail or Hyper Beam to give him an unexpected edge against Pokémon that would normally have an advantage over him.

As Pikachu is actually a primary character (who often has a significant role in stories), I can't see them writing him out, I really can't. He is also massively more powerful than any new Pokémon Ash could catch. He is also Ash's personal friend, so he is unlikely to want to leave him behind. That aside, I wouldn't be surprised if one of the characters caught the positive/negative electric mouse twins. I suspect that they are deadly in 2-on-2 bouts.

[AKA Pokemon Fan]

Originally posted by RaichuRocks
the fact of the matter is:

Pikachu is losing more battles against non-Team Rocket members

Bayleef was kicking butt instead of Pikachu in Gym Battles, but then he gave it to Oak.

Although they are trying to emphasize that Pikachu is not all powerful it certainly remains the rare and powerful Pokemon that interested Jessie, James and Meowth in the first place. While it hasn't had a big role in the Johto Gym battles yet it will in the future. Here's some examples of battles it will fight in the future:


***SPOILERS***


It will defeat Jasmine's Magnemite despite its attacks being less effective on other Electric types.

It will fight Pryce's Piloswine (a Ground type that has had a lot more experienced than in terms of years battling than Pikachu) to with such power that Pryce is forced to give up the match.

It will defeat Claire's Gyarados (type advantage or no it's still a great feat considering how much stronger this Gyarados is than the one Misty's Corsola defeated).

Also, Bayleef lost to Gary's Blastoise despite it's type advantage so it's not as powerful as you might think.

The Pikachu thing is getting old anyways

I admit that for awhile now Pikachu, and Pokemon episodes in general, have been getting boring. But things are getting a lot better now. Besides, Pikachu is as much the heart and soul of the series as Ash and Team Rocket are. If Pikachu leaves what's to stop the Rockets from leaving? This I know would upset a great deal of fans more than even Brock and then Misty's temporary departures.

All it does nowadays is shock Team Rocket

What about destroying all that storm's electricity in yesterday's episode? It will be doing tons of things in the future. It mostly is always shocking the Roackets because (1) the Rocket often focus their attacks on it, (2) being always out of it's Pokeball it has better ability to attack first, and (3) I think it enjoys it.

Pikachu will never leave and will most likely never evolve. I think it'd be a good idea if everyone accepted at least the former.

[AKA Pokemon Fan]

As for this...

Originally posted by Mew2Too

They should dump Pikachu. He's been around far too long, and he's a really dusty character. To make things fresher, they should get one of those Houen + and - Pichu things to be Ash's new Pokemon. We don't have to notice Pikachu is gone. The two look enough alike people really shouldn't care. Plus, we could recycle Pika's personality and make the Pichu thing not far off from Pikachu. Meanwhile, it would have enough uniqueness so we could actually get a more fresh story out of it. Is there anything wrong with doing that?

The Pokemon are a lot more than just faces in a crowd, they are characters. You're speaking like they're inaminate objects in the show's reality. I for one WOULD notice and care if they bumped off Ash's first Pokemon and replaced it with two others that won't be as powerful, experienced or have its history and lack it's character. This is true of others as well:

People don't want just any Squirtle to come back, they want Ash's Squirtle, the Squirtle who was abandoned by it's trainer years ago, became a vandal then learned to trust and love humans again through Ash. The Squirtle who developed a close bond with Ash's Bulbasaur, the Squirtle who learned and battled until it was as strong as any Wartortle.

People don't want just any Charizard back, they want Ash's Charizard. They want the Charizard that was abused by its first trainer, then forgot it's bond with Ash when it evolved. They want the Charizard that regained it's memories and went on to become Ash's most powerful Pokemon, as well as one of his most loyal and dependable, to train with the most powerful Charizards on the planet, to be a star in the third movie, and to return to the series for several titanic matches.

I don't think any of these Pokemon were "replaced" either. Sure they took over the roles of Water and Fire types and were used to advertise the new games, but Cyndaquil and Totodile weren't replacement characters, they had their own unique personalities. Pokemon is a story about a trainer with abilities beyond his age, it needs to keep the Pokemon with abilities beyond its type and evolution.

So in other words I respectfully but completely disagree with your post.

[Brock_ag]

Pikachu isn't leaving. He's like the main pokemon and ash will never betray pikachu. They have many products with pikachu and what would the pikachu project be without the pikachu.

[The Rusted One]

It's a fact that they'll never write Pikachu out of the series, despite what people may want to see.
But I'd hardly say he was about level 70 - sure, he's at a high level in the game, but the game isn't the anime, and the anime isn't quite so concerned with levels as the game is.
The main problem with Pikachu is that everything it does has been done before - every single time it shocks Team Rocket, it shocks them almost exactly the same. There's no difference. And that is starting to get old. Another thing that is starting to get old is the way that Ash always runs out into the middle of a battle and puts his arms out and yells, "STOP!" Okay, so it worked the first time, in P2K, I think, BUT after that it got too cliched. They need to change things in the anime - come on, if Ash is supposed to be 13, as people say, then his voice should have started changing - even Li on Card Captor Sakura's voice has, and he's supposed to be about 11. Realism and change, people!

[Mew2Too]

Originally posted by Brock_ag
Pikachu isn't leaving. He's like the main pokemon and ash will never betray pikachu. They have many products with pikachu and what would the pikachu project be without the pikachu.

True, Brock AG. But, unfortunately, I could point you in the direction of another Pokemon character who was just as irreplacable, yet they dumped her in favor of character who was much the same and decided it wasn't a big deal.

She also had action figures, chibi dolls, stickers, posters, songs, and entire episodes of Pokemon devoted to her. Yet, they decided she just wasn't important enough, no matter how much the fans liked her. So, since the other girl was more new- and since they looked close enough- this girl was replaced.

[AKA Pokemon Fan]

Originally posted by Mew2Too
True, Brock AG. But, unfortunately, I could point you in the direction of another Pokemon character who was just as irreplacable, yet they dumped her in favor of character who was much the same and decided it wasn't a big deal.

She also had action figures, chibi dolls, stickers, posters, songs, and entire episodes of Pokemon devoted to her. Yet, they decided she just wasn't important enough, no matter how much the fans liked her. So, since the other girl was more new- and since they looked close enough- this girl was replaced.

Just like Tracy wasn't a copy of Brock but a refreshingly different personality so is Haruka. Where people get that Misty's leave will be permanent and that she is no longer important is beyond me. Did Charizard become unimportant when it left? Of course not, it forced Ash to utilize new training and battling strategies as well as allowing it to make some great returns when it was needed. Charizard was not forgotte, neither was Squirtle or Brock and Misty most certainly will not be either. I ask you to look at this message I wrote in another topic recently:


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Originally posted by Mew2Too
[B]
Did I say Haruka was nervous? She seems a lttle unsure of herself, but I can name some times that Misty was a little unsure. (Like in "The Misty Mermaid!" I believe she was a little uneasy about performing.)
Haruka is nervous about the same sort of things Misty was. She seems to be pretty good with Pokemon, though. I know she's supposed to be kind of wet behind the ears, but not that I rewatched the show I really can't say that as much. After all, Misty was no rookie because she was nervous around Gyarados. Maybe that Mudkip more or less assaulted Haruka because it was just sort of unruly. Bulbasaur tackled Misty- it didn't mean Misty's training skills sucked.
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*Please note the following remarks do not mean I don't like Haruka, I really love her character actually*

Haruka is a total beginner with a Pokemon that runs into trees or any other object in the way almos whenever she releases it. She hasn't even learned how to make it attack right. She knows less about Pokemon than Ash did on his first day, and to top it off she is very clumsy. All very "unlike Misty" qualities.


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Ya know, I hate hearing about this "inevitable confrontation." I don't think the writers are going to get into AAHL. I don't think they'd dare. Of course, they might, and it would cause the fans to picket in front of TV Tokyo 24/7 with nasty signs and flaming torches.
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I don't think you understood me, sorry for being vague. Anyway when I say "inevitable confrontation" I'm not thinking of AAHL, I'm thinking of Misty thinking there is AAHL and getting upset or in some way revealing more of her feelings for Ash. I can just imagine Misty and her talking about their journeys with Ash and the way the conversation could lead.

At the most I think there could only be HLAL (Haruka Loves Ash Love), and at the moment I see that as very unlikely.


quote:
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In all seriousness, I dont see why they should have to start AAHL if they know Misty will be back eventually. After seeing how the Misty special ended, I'm afraid that they're not planning on bringing her back at all. In that case, my theory of "Haruka is Misty" theory might not be literally true, but sort of portrays the cold hard fact of it - they don't want us to notice Misty's gone, so they've recycled her into Haruka! I don't know about the rest of you, but I just don't care for that sort of thing going on. I know it's a show meant for kids, but isn't there any value placed on characters at all?
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Brock was switched for another wise, knowledgeable older character, i.e Tracey. Did that mean Brock could never return? And like I said Brock was set up to leave forever, Misty isn't.

While they are reusing plot elements concerning how Haruka starts following Ash I think they are merely elements to help lead to wherever their relationship with each other and other characters will go, nothing more. Look at all the differences between Haruka and Misty's personalities and character traits:

Misty's Personality and Character Traits: Fiery and confident, with an underlying gentle, caring nature. Apt to get her way through force. Has very strongly held beliefs concerning certain things. Has little patience, apt to respond loudly or violently to whatever bothers her. A quick thinker with a great passion for Pokemon Training and a good amount of knowledge of them as well. The youngest of four sisters, she has a bit of an inferiority complex, which contributes to her reactions to anything or anyone she interprets as insulting her. Likes to act and be thought of and treated as feminine but usually ends up being more tomboyish.

Haruka's personality and character traits: Sweet and a bit air-headed, Haruka also tends to do things without thinking. Is rather clumsy and knows very little about Pokemon and the world in general. Though capable of aggression she tends to far more low key and to get her way with others through guilting them into it rather than by force. Presently doesn't care much about training, merely using it as an excuse to travel the world. Naive and lazy she isn't very good at taking care of herself on her own. The older of two children she is in many ways still a child when it comes to solving problems and prefers to do things the easiest way she can. Has a lot of growing up to do.

Haruka's character may not be very appealing yet (aside from being cute and funny) but it will allow her to grow a great deal through the season just like Ash's personality did.

[Mew2Too]

Originally posted by AKA Pokemon Fan
Just like Tracy wasn't a copy of Brock but a refreshingly different personality so is Haruka. Where people get that Misty's leave will be permanent and that she is no longer important is beyond me. Did Charizard become unimportant when it left? Of course not, it forced Ash to utilize new training and battling strategies as well as allowing it to make some great returns when it was needed. Charizard was not forgotte, neither was Squirtle or Brock and Misty most certainly will not be either.

Yeah, but they weren't planning on Charizard's return! They're not planning on Misty's either. They're not leaving enough breathing room for Misty's return. She's happy at the Gym, and it would take a while to shut it down. Furthermore, how long will it take her sisters to go around the world? I would say a year, wouldn't you say so. In that case, she might be back next season. Maybe that's their plan. Why can't they just say that?

Furthermore, I kno Masato isn't going to be around long. By the time he's ten, he'll want to start his own Pokemon journey. So, there's a wide-arce space for Misty's return without bringing down Haruka.

[The Rusted One]

Originally posted by Mew2Too
Yeah, but they weren't planning on Charizard's return! They're not planning on Misty's either. They're not leaving enough breathing room for Misty's return. She's happy at the Gym, and it would take a while to shut it down. Furthermore, how long will it take her sisters to go around the world? I would say a year, wouldn't you say so. In that case, she might be back next season. Maybe that's their plan. Why can't they just say that?

Furthermore, I kno Masato isn't going to be around long. By the time he's ten, he'll want to start his own Pokemon journey. So, there's a wide-arce space for Misty's return without bringing down Haruka.

Hmmm, almost seems to me as if...no, it couldn't be...but it sounds almost like you are trying to tell us what the writers are going to do...hmmm...

Just because, at the moment, something "prevents" Misty from joining Ash and Brock again doesn't mean that it will stay that way forever. And perhaps they don't want to say it for "shock" value.

And I don't see how you KNOW that Masato isn't going to be around that long; perhaps he will start his pokemon jurney while he is in the company of Ash, Brock and Haruka, and stay with them as they travel around?
What's to stop them making a group of five people, rather than four? I mean, they did it this series with the increase from three to four, so why not?

[Mew2Too]

Originally posted by The Rusted One
Hmmm, almost seems to me as if...no, it couldn't be...but it sounds almost like you are trying to tell us what the writers are going to do...hmmm...

Just because, at the moment, something "prevents" Misty from joining Ash and Brock again doesn't mean that it will stay that way forever. And perhaps they don't want to say it for "shock" value.

And I don't see how you KNOW that Masato isn't going to be around that long; perhaps he will start his pokemon jurney while he is in the company of Ash, Brock and Haruka, and stay with them as they travel around?
What's to stop them making a group of five people, rather than four? I mean, they did it this series with the increase from three to four, so why not?

It looks like they're not planning to bring Misty back. I would say it would be impossible not to leave her behind for long. After all, that trip-round-the-world thing could probably only last a year. But, hey, this is Pokemon!

As to Masato, I think Ash will be too far ahead of Masato before the boy comes of age. So, I think that one is out of the question. Ash will likely be in Kinsetsu by then. If Misty comes to them- fine! If Masato wants to start his own journey- fine! But I doubt that Ash's whole crew will travel back to the first gym on Masato's account. Besides, he'll need to go and get a Pokemon from Oodamaki Hakase. Do you think Ash is going to go from Kinsetsu all the way back to Mishiro after he's traveled all that way? I doubt it! Masato will grab a boat and go back alone. We'll probably hear from him in the Houen League championships.

As to five characters, I don't think that that's the point of having four characters. I once said, "They're using Masato to warm Misty's seat." Well, that might be true, but they might also just want Masato to be the living Pokedex. I don't think we'll really need him when and if Misty comes back.

[RedStarWarrior]

Pikachu is an overused icon in my opinion. Putting it in the Pokéball would be better...

[The Rusted One]

Originally posted by Mew2Too
It looks like they're not planning to bring Misty back. I would say it would be impossible not to leave her behind for long. After all, that trip-round-the-world thing could probably only last a year. But, hey, this is Pokemon!

As to Masato, I think Ash will be too far ahead of Masato before the boy comes of age. So, I think that one is out of the question. Ash will likely be in Kinsetsu by then. If Misty comes to them- fine! If Masato wants to start his own journey- fine! But I doubt that Ash's whole crew will travel back to the first gym on Masato's account. Besides, he'll need to go and get a Pokemon from Oodamaki Hakase. Do you think Ash is going to go from Kinsetsu all the way back to Mishiro after he's traveled all that way? I doubt it! Masato will grab a boat and go back alone. We'll probably hear from him in the Houen League championships.

As to five characters, I don't think that that's the point of having four characters. I once said, "They're using Masato to warm Misty's seat." Well, that might be true, but they might also just want Masato to be the living Pokedex. I don't think we'll really need him when and if Misty comes back.

Hmmmm, but the thing is, in the anime, you don't ONLY need the eight badges of the region - look at Gary: he NEVER got the Earth Badge, but had ten other badges from around an area that included Kanto and somewhere else (not Johto, there weren't any Johto badges in his collection), and he was allowed into the Pokemon League on the Indigo Plateau. So, that might mean that Masato travels around and gets the remaining Houen badges and then goes elsewhere, either with Ash or separate from him.
Then again, who ever said he was aspiring to enter a League competition? I mean, not all trainers aspire to that - and if you ask me, his knowledge of pokemon, etc., points towards him aspiring to work in the field of Pokemon research, much like Gary.

[pokemonm]

there is a diffrents between misty/brock and pikachu why there are many reasons for one little kids kling to pikachu like there pet dog i know they can get used to a new pokemon by then they would take pokemon off wb its like taking disney mikey mouse and any ways pikachu sold more then misty/brock hasbro cant aford to give pickachu up

[The Rusted One]

Originally posted by pokemonm
there is a diffrents between misty/brock and pikachu why there are many reasons for one little kids kling to pikachu like there pet dog i know they can get used to a new pokemon by then they would take pokemon off wb its like taking disney mikey mouse and any ways pikachu sold more then misty/brock hasbro cant aford to give pickachu up

Woohoo, yay, bad grammar and no punctuation is soooo cool!

[Mew2Too]

Originally posted by The Rusted One
Woohoo, yay, bad grammar and no punctuation is soooo cool!

By saying that, are you agreeing with me? [j/k]

[The Rusted One]

Originally posted by Mew2Too
By saying that, are you agreeing with me? [j/k]

Um, at the moment, you seem to have a very vague point, so no, I don't suppose I am. I think they should give the whole Pikachu thing a rest for a while, perhaps with Pikachu getting sick and him having to leave for a season or something, but I don't think they will. If they did so, it would be good to see the Mainan-Purasuru pair taking its place for a while, with both of them out of their pokeballs and just sitting on Ash's shoulder. Of course, they'd have to be gotten rid of when Pikachu comes back, or they will make Pikachu feel like it has been replaced, etc.
But Pikachu is the main marketing gimmick of the pokemon phenomenon, and so they will never take it out of the series. Even if Ash breaks both his legs and becomes severely mentally retarded through being shocked so many times, Pikachu will never leave.

But by making that comment above, I was pointing out annoying it is to go onto a forum and have to read words that are barely English anyway. I mean, you can't replace "you" with "u" - "u" is a letter, "you" is a word. Do they even know when to use either one properly? It's just plain lazy, senseless, and 13-15 year olds do it to seem cool, and it's not. Yes, that was a major hint to stop it, pokemonm.

[Runpapa]

I believe Pikachu should have a rival. More an enemy. A serious one. Nothing like Meowth, the villainous comic relief. Nor the love-hate relationship Gary and Ash used to exhibit. A pokemon that constantly haunts and belittles Pikachu without his friends to witness, and in the process causing problem for the gang without their knowing of the source. Sneasel seems like it. Jupetta? Perhaps Parusaru and Mainan, the polarity twins. They mirror his ability, but double the power.

I think they should expand Pikachu's story and character. We know he's benevolent, honest, and highly faithful to his trainer and friends. But let's see how Pikachu handles personal issues without Ash's support. Give him some inner demons and vengeful ex-friends or something to the like.

That goes double for Team Rocket. Their story and character/emotional development is slow but VERY entertaining. We know basically where Jessie, James, & Meowth came from and how them came to be. They all lived distinguished lifestyles and either conquered or evaded their personal demons. I find them more interesting than the twerps since TR's pasts aren't so regular.

I also feel remorse since they've always gotten the shaft since they were young. And there's never mention of any good friends or relatives in their lives before they met. HUMAN friends, anyway. Not even during childhood. Is it any wonder they entered Team Rocket.

Anyway, I say there's enough story to set a sturdy foundation for the trio to star in their own miniseries or movie. The same for Pikachu. I know those little segments before each movie starring only Pokemon are pretty entertaining. But let's have at least one excluding the fun and games.