Why don't people use these?

[GirlRepellant]

I was wondering why nobody seems to use some of the following pokemon that seem quite good:

Rhydon
Exploud
Hariyama
Golem
Tentecruel
Aggron
Machamp
Medicham
Electrode
Sharpedo
Muk
Seviper
Lunatune/Solrock
Crawdaunt
Pinser
Donphan

They all seem like very useable pokemon here, why aren't they?

[Carbonite4]

Most of those Pokemon are used.

[Poryhedron]

To mangle one of my own quotes, Why be Arnold Schwartzenegger when you can be Zues? Those are good pokémon, but they aren't the best.
having said that, however, Carbonite4 is quite right. People who are tired of using the same 6-12 species over and over do turn to these guys, and if they're good enough trainers they might even defeat those 6-12 boringly "best" ones using these second-bests.

[Kari and Mewtwo]

Originally posted by GirlRepellant
I was wondering why nobody seems to use some of the following pokemon that seem quite good:

allow me to explain:

Rhydon- was used in the early RS metagame, but metagross just outperforms it. Not to mention that Swords dance + Rock Slide is illegal in 200 play

Exploud- dunno

Hariyama- DD gyarados eats this thing for breakfast

Golem- pwnage by Regice, Milotic, Metagross, and Alakazam make this thing unusable

Tentecruel- despite its high SD, timidkazam pwns it

Aggron- See metagross's earthquake. Also, aggron isnt UU, but its not OU.

Machamp- see hariyama

Medicham- EV splits make recover unusable on this guy. Plus DD gyarados rapes it

Electrode- No longer the fastest pokemon. It has no advantages. Metagross, DD gyarados, and DD salamence pwn it.

Sharpedo- weak defenses & EV cap makes its defenses even more horrid.

Muk- Doesn't have ground immunity, unlike Weezing. Also can't explode anymore

Seviper- pwned by quake

Lunatune/Solrock- pwned by metagross

Crawdaunt- See sharpedo

Pinser- No bug move outside of hidden power, outperformed by heracross, and like all physical attackers, its pwned by DD gyarados & DD salamence. Not to mention flying weakness fks it over even moreso.

Donphan- not really UU. just more or less an average RS poke

[titandude21]

Originally posted by GirlRepellant
I was wondering why nobody seems to use some of the following pokemon that seem quite good:

Rhydon
Exploud
Hariyama
Golem
Tentecruel
Aggron
Machamp
Medicham
Electrode
Sharpedo
Muk
Seviper
Lunatune/Solrock
Crawdaunt
Pinser
Donphan

They all seem like very useable pokemon here, why aren't they?

Rhydon: no speed or special defense, Metagross > Rhydon... counter rocks though

Exploud: Zangoose

Hariyama: anything with speed and a decent offense (Heracross)

Golem: see rhydon

Tentacruel: there are better options, and that special defense doesn't look as beefy in RS as it does in GSC

Aggron: x4 ground, x4 fighting weaknesses

Machamp: same reasons as hariyama

Medicham: can't do much even with pure power

Electrode: it can't do anything better than other pokemon

Sharpedo: it won't last more than a couple of turns

Muk: weezing

seviper: weezing

lunatone/solrock: can't do anything spectacular, 5 weaknesses, no speed, although CM luna and CB solrock can pwn if used right

crawdaunt: putrid attacking movepool meaning it can't take advantage of its physical attack + swords dance

pinsir: good UU poke, but Hera can do everything pinsir can do, plus pinsir doesn't get megahorn

donphan: metagross is a better option

[Pewter City Geodude]

Swords Dance + Rock Slide isn't even necessary on Rhydon. Rock Blast will most likely be equal to or better than Rock Slide, all it has to do is hit at least 3 times.

[Slowking86]

Many of those pokemon can be out to good use.. Machamp, solrock, Rhydon, Aggron and especially medicham are good with choice band.

Muk is quite the tank with curse and can take an alakazam psychic.
Lunatone is always good with cm/psychic/ice beam/something
Pinsir is good as it has the ability hyper cutter(sp?) and swords dance..
Exploud can be excellent with ninjask. Hariyama is good with bulk up/whirlwind.. Tentacruel can be good, but i've never seen it work.. it completely owns ludicolo though. Donphan is godly if you bp to it with ninjask.. at least i saw something like that once.

Electrode is not that good anymore as it's no longer the fastest pokemon.. Sharpedo is almost too weak defencively to use. Seviper is just bad. Crawdanunt is also not too good..

[GirlRepellant]

Kari & Mewtwo: just 'cause a pokemon is owned by one or a couple of pokemon doesn't make it unusable or terrible. By that logic, I could say that Salamence is terrible 'cause it's owned by a 6X Calm Minded Golduck's Ice Beam or something to that effect. See what I mean?

Thanks on most of the clarifications, peoples!

[Mr.E]

At best, any of those in the list would belong in the "stick it in UU teams" option. ;/

Machamp and Solrock suck, indeed.

[[McGraw]]

Pinsir does have its merits, namely swords dance and hyper cutter. The main reason why it isn't used, is because it struggles to scratch Skarmory whereas Heracross has STABed fighting attacks.

The rest of the list are all fodder to one standard pokemon or another.

[Brumlad02]

heres my opinion on why the pokemon you listed aren't used.

Rhydon - Slow, No good rock/ground moves that it learns itself.

Exploud - ??

Hariyama - ??

Golem - i think quite a few people use golem, i always used golem on my silver game.

Tentacruel - slow to learn good moves, takes a good trainer to raise this.

Aggron - ??

Machamp - better figting type pokemon?

Medicham - doesn't learn great moves.

Electrode - horrible defense.

Sharpedo - horrible defense.

Muk - doesn't learn any poison moves by levelling up. Not particularly strong.

Seviper - seviper's are great i think, havent raised one but they learn great moves both by levelling up and by TM's

Lunatune/Solrock - these are brilliant pokemon in my opinion, i always make room for one in my party. Don't know why they aren't used

Crawdaunt - hard to find its un-evolved form. Well at least for me.

Pinser - no bug moves, strong in its own rights however.

Donphan - takes ages to learn a ground move, level 50 last time i checked. Moveset not that great either.

Bye Now

[AndyPants]

Here's some ways you could use them


Exploud - Not Great Speed, but has good HP and can be used well as an Attacker/Special Attacker due to it's awesome movepool.
Hariyama - Good HP, Attack. Belly drum helps a little if you can set it up.
Tentacruel - Fast, Nice Toxic/SPAttack combo
Aggron - Despite HUGE weaknesses, his defense and attack are great
Medicham - Great Choice Band Attacker
Sharpedo - Good Speed, Attack, good moveset
Seviper - Good Attack or SPAttack, Flamethrower /Crunch/ Hidden Power is good move combo
Lunatune - Decent SPAttacker with Ice Beam/Psychic/Hidden Power
Solrock - can learn Rock Slide/ EQ/ Shadow Ball, Levitate helps
Crawdaunt - Swords Dance, Brick Break, Sludge bomb, Guillotine if you want to be cheap
Donphan - Good pokemon, not underused.

These ones aren't very practical though.

Pinsir - Slow and bad movepool compared to Heracross
Electrode - His awesome speed is useless without any good Attacks
Muk - As already said, he stinks compared to Weezing
Machamp - Not fast enough, doesn't translate well to r/s
Golem - Same as above, Big Weaknesses
Rhydon - not bad, but there are better pokemon out there

[GoldDraconian]

Kari & Mewtwo: just 'cause a pokemon is owned by one or a couple of pokemon doesn't make it unusable or terrible. By that logic, I could say that Salamence is terrible 'cause it's owned by a 6X Calm Minded Golduck's Ice Beam or something to that effect. See what I mean?

Your argument is incredibly flawed. By that kind of reasoning, Wurmple is ban-worthy because if you BP it 3x Speed boost and 3x Swords Dance and skill swap Pure Power onto it, it can easily use Poison Sting to beat Sunkerns up.

The idea behind metagaming says that if something loses to common opponents virtually all the time, it is probably bad. Alakazam prevents a lot of Pokemon from being useful, because they have no chance against Zam and Alakazam is quite popular. Many of the Pokemon you listed are weak to common enemies. Hariyama and Machamp are screwed by Alakazam, Gardevoir, Gyarados AND Salamence (under normal circumstances), so they don't see as much play as they otherwise might.

Another problem a lot of the things have is that they're simply inferior to the alternatives. Using Golem over Metagross is in some ways similar to bringing a sword to a fight rather than a gun- sure, a sword can be quite effective, but it can't really compare to the gun. Those Pokemon see use, but only on UU teams or sometimes on teams that need to cover a very specific problem and use them instead of the more common alternatives.

Others are stuck with weak movepools and can't really get around them.

I'd like to note that while Solrock is no Metagross, he served me excellently on my Explosion team. He resists Flying and is immune to Ground, and he can get reasonably high Speed. His Rock Slides meant doom for numerous Gyaradoses and Salamences, and even a Metagross or two. Mine ended up with an unusually high flinch rate in practice, which was fun. The flinch rate certainly wasn't a reason behind using it, though, because there's no logical reason that it was been flinching like it was. He was also cooler than Standardgross. Of course, I've also been known to pack a random Haunter in GSC...

[Tallest_Los]

I was gonna say, I use Donphan all the time. I use Crawdaunt all the time, too, but there ARE better options. I just think it's one of the coolest looking Pokemon ever.

[Bacl]

Bah! I use Muk in every Pokemon game since Pokemon Red (and I own every Pokemon game since Pokemon Red, so that's a lot of Muk!). He's always my team leader.

Some people on these boards play Pokemon too much by the numbers. I on the other hand strive to catch and train only Pokemon that I love, or think are cool, and I find that they kick butt just as much as some super maxed out legendaries that everyone else has.

My Wobbuffet can beat any Mewtwo you might bring.

My Meganium could wipe the floor with any Groudon or Kyogre (notice I say 'could' because she's currently trapped in the alternate dimension of Crystal, but soon enough shall be reborn on my GBA and kick those two looser legendaries butts if need be).

And my Muk...well...he's the best.

[Powarun]

I will give my reasons, and I am doing this through an inexperianced teenager, not some expert. Also this is prejudice.

Rhydon Reminds me too much of Stadium, I would only use one for Horn Drill and maybe strength
Exploud to hard to raise, I mean if I catch a whismur at the start and train it, I would have Exploud in my team if not screw it.

Hariyama I don't like fighting types too much, and this guy isn't fast enough

Golem Can get killed by surf, ice beam, any grass attack for the most part.

Tentecruel Just too many tentecool and I find it annoying.

Aggron Too slow

Machamp Link cable sucks, if I would want to train a good pokemon why would I want my opponent to see it.

Medicham Exept for huge power, this guy is a pushover.

Electrode No good moves

Sharpedo Weak defences

Muk So Red and Blue

Seviper Although cool, poison sucks

Lunatune/Solrock Um, I don't know, mabye because there are better psychics,

Crawdaunt No good moves and there is better dark or water pokemon out there, also why does it have a high attack but none of its attacks have stab

Pinser Bug pokemon cna get knocked out easily

Donphan Ugly, and I prefer specail attacks over attack.

[Mr.E]

Then it's my turn. Quiet too, McSlaw. ;/

Rhydon is virtually unresistable. The whole deal with Metagross is only partially valid. Rhydon gets a STAB EQ, so it's not as hindered by Milotic or Swampert (attack-wise; I obviously know it'll be switching if they live), and handles Skarm slightly better with a STAB Rock Slide/Blast compared to an unSTAB HP Rock. And it can Roar if you care.

Golem is a similar deal. Sadly, it doesn't have Megahorn so it's not all that wonderful against, say, Sceptile. Luckily, Grassers aren't all that common and you can't really argue against being able to learn Explosion.

Crawdaunt/Hariyama/etc. learn Knock Off. 'Nuff said. (if you want other reasons, then... Crawdaunt can hit hard with high Attack and Swords Dance, while it at least has a good enough SpA to aid against stuff like Weezing or Regirock. Hariyama has a choice between two good Traits, hits decently hard, has decent survivability, and... Whirlwind. O_o )

Machamp. Machamp. Machamp... Yeah. Find me something that Machamp CAN'T hurt. At best, you get Intimidating Gyarados/Salamence. And Guts discourages status effects, or turning them somewhat beneficial when they inflict Machamp.

Solrock beats standard Gyarados, Salamence, AND Alakazam, all three being some of the most popular pokémon. Even if it WAS useless outside of those three (which it isn't), that alone gives it merit. And it also gets Explosion. Now Lunatone I'm not so keen on, but that's just me...

Shiftry can likely take on 'Zam (at least, 1-on-1). It learn Leech Seed and Explosion anyway, two of the best overall moves in the game.

Medicham hits hard. It doesn't have any survivability, but it hits really hard. It's like an alternate-type Slaking. Of course, it couldn't take a hit if its life depended on it, but it hits really hard. Just get those Intimidating Flyers out of the way. ;/

Exploud isn't all that wonderful, but STAB Normal attacking and a nice versatility in a combination of good physical attacks and good special attacks (along with the SpA to back them well enough) gives it some worth. Never used either, but also combines well with Ninjask. But it's no Zangoose, alright. Zangoose can't Earthquake.

Aggron... I can see why you wouldn't use it. I don't like the fact it can't OHKO 'Zam without Choice Band or the semi-inaccurate Iron Tail. However, it shares the whole Ice resistance/Poison immunity with Metagross, two good traits to have. Can't vouch for it over Metagross in too many cases (sadly), but I suppose it has an advantage with STAB Rock if you give it HP Rock. =[ Dunno what you'd use it on, though.

Donphan I never understood why it was used, even in GSC. So bite me. ;/

I think I'm done with that, so I'll just respond to individual messages now. Mostly actual responses, rather than picking out every little thing in the "list" I disagree with.

================================

The rest of the list are all fodder to one standard pokemon or another.

So Regice is crap because it's Metagross fodder. Metagross is crap because it's Milotic fodder. Weezing is crap because it's 'Zam and Gardy fodder. 'Zam is crap because it's Metagross and Ninjask fodder. Skarmory is crap because it's REALLY Fagneton fodder.Starmie is crap because it's Sceptile fodder. And... so on. =[ Getting tired of continuing this list.

The idea behind metagaming says that if something loses to common opponents virtually all the time, it is probably bad. Alakazam prevents a lot of Pokemon from being useful, because they have no chance against Zam and Alakazam is quite popular. Many of the Pokemon you listed are weak to common enemies. Hariyama and Machamp are screwed by Alakazam, Gardevoir, Gyarados AND Salamence (under normal circumstances), so they don't see as much play as they otherwise might.

In different words as above, but meaning the same thing: Even standards are screwed against certain other standards, so does this mean there is nothing usable because there's always something to counter it? Should the current standards not be used because they'll just be beat by another standard? (Or maybe we should use standards since nobody else should be using standards because they'd be dumb to carry standards since standards counter their standards and as such should not be standard.)

Another problem a lot of the things have is that they're simply inferior to the alternatives.

Sure, I'll just use your example. Golem's major attack (Earthquake) is of a better type than of Metagross (Meteor Mash). It has a higher physical resistance, and even if Gyarados/Salamence switch into it, STAB on Rock makes up the lack of Clear Body when comparing its Rock Slide to Metagross' HP Rock. Golem can Roar and Explode (two attacks that have great potential use), and Focus Punch if you really care about that one. And Fire Blast, despite its crap-for-SpA, still allows it to deal with Skarm better than Metagross deals with it.

And good job on sticking up for Solrock. 8)

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Edit: USE TRAPINCH 8D