Homosexual Books for First Graders
What would this be? Other pieces of books, parchments, oral history? We cannot look at the world and dub that 'God made that because it looks like it.' We may have pictures but most of these were done by Renaissance artists during the 14 to 15 hundreds because the pope paid them to.Originally Posted by Sorovis
So you're saying that if my dog eats the food off the table, it is not her fault because she has no concept of right or wrong?
Yes, murdering is wrong. But there are ways around this. Would you let someone kill you if there was no other way to get away from the person besides killing them? I sure do hope not. That's self-defense. Murder is defined as the crime of unlawfully killing a person esp. with malice. What animals do is not murder. It is the survival quote, the strongest survive. And you know how many times it takes before an animal actually makes the kill? About 1 in 8 tries for most.
And we kill cows, horses, sea turtles, alligators, etc. for food. What's the difference?
We are different but not that different. Our superior intelligence is that we create things that make us weaker. Electric can-openers, automatic doors. That is making us physically weaker. We may be mentally strong and our intelligence is pretty high but we cannot go out in the world and live as animals do for the rest of our lives. We have grown accustomed to the homes we live in, not nature.
And what does not apply to us that applies to them, I ask?
Go ahead, let's see how much of a job you can do before that person kicks into instinct and accidentally kills you instead.
Yes they do. Insects can have rivalries with other colonies and sometimes combine together. There could be more than one queen in an ant pile. That actually reminds me of a Dexter's Lab show...
Why though? What good would it do? Intelligence isn't everything. If it was, bacteria would be long gone. Being the fittest to survive is. The thing is, we contribute everything that we do to excel in being suited to our environment with intelligence. We build shelters. Whoop-de-doo. Beavers have been building homes before us. We create fire because now we can't digest raw meat. Good Gosh. Animals can digest raw meat without the help of cooking. What good is intelligence if it doesn't help us in the real world?
We can predict earthquakes because of animals. We need animals to help us predict a possible earthquake. An example in Italy. All the cats wanted to go outside. When the owners let them out, the cats never came back except to grab kittens. An earthquake hit the same day.
Because we are not in tuned with nature anymore, we have lost this ability. We rely on machines to give us data. Animals can rely on the earth to give off waves before any machine picks up a possible earthquake.
So what is intelligence but a part of the brain stifling all instincts we used to have?
Homosexual Books for First Graders
Checkmate - any evidence on that Darius(ous) point? I'd really like to hear it.
For the rest, that Luke has gotten other points *right* does not mean he got everything right. IE, wether or not he had it right with Lysanias means nothing in regard to Quirinius (for example).
Homosexual Books for First Graders
Rambunctious, I understand and respect your skepticism about other evidence; but I also expect it, and I have a site for you:
http://home.earthlink.net/~ronrhodes/Manuscript.html
When a dog eats food off the table, the master chastises it and tells it not to do it again. When the dog does not do it the next chance it gets, this is its memory of what happened last time. Humans also use this, but we use other things as well (concience).
Your note on self-defense and animal survival is duely noted. However, an animal killing another is for survival; people do not need to kill other people for survival (unless in self-defense as you posted). The difference between us killing animals and animals killing each other is this: people do not kill animals out of cruelty or hatred (if they do it is either illegal or looked down upon), but for food, in the same way animals kill each other.
Our intelligence, however, does make us that different. In aspects where we were too weak in the past to kill animals larger stronger and faster than us, our intelligence gives us power that our own physical prowess does not. Through our minds and applications of our knowledge comes power we could not obtain otherwise. This is why
our intellect is such a difference. Also, things do not apply to us the same way as animals because we live in a society where killing each other is not necessary for survival; nor is evading oncoming predators. Our intelligence gives us a completely different world; therefor we should not treat animals as role models as our circumstances are greatly different.
I never said we shouldn't and don't use instinct. But, as I explained above, we are too different to do as animals.
Intelligence is our great advantage over everything else. It does set us apart from nature almost completely (which I side with you on; people should not be dependant on machines and technology), and is the greatest weapon we have. True, we have not conquered diseases, but we can deal with them. Intelligence completely sets us aside from the laws of nature.
Homosexual Books for First Graders
actually there is no evidence of God when you consider the scientific definition of evidence. where is the proof that there is a God?
i'm not saying I don't believe in God, I'm playing devil's advocate, because the fact of the matter is there is no evidence that God exists. It's all faith. Hence the definition of faith- Trust/belief without evidence.
Burning in water, drowning in flame
Homosexual Books for First Graders
There are signs that He exists, and any believer will say they know He exists by a specific feeling they get which is common among believers. Like I've said, we have no evidence any other great person of the past existed; simply written documents. So we must trust to that or not believe any shred of history we have.
Homosexual Books for First Graders
faith doesn't mean trust/beleif without evidence. that would be foolish. Evidence can be revelation by God. faith is more like trust/beleif that doesn't require scientific evidence.
second, there IS evidence that God exists, so know what you are talking about when you say things about that.
There is the Cambrian explosion (the vary sudden appearance of a lot of different animals in a certain prehistoric era-found in fossils). I'll post more tomorrow maybe.
Homosexual Books for First Graders
Yes, we do have evidence; but evidence most people here will not accept do to being 'biased' or other reasons.
Homosexual Books for First Graders
um...no there is no evidence God exists. Sorovis, there are photographs of historical people. there are paintings of historical people. and God isn't a person anyway.
and yeah5, in the religious sense, faith is a trust in God even though there is no proof. i DO know what i'm talking about. God is not a living, concrete thing. It is an abstract idea. We like to romanticize that he is a white male, perhaps even with facial hair, but the truth of the matter is, those are all made up.
Burning in water, drowning in flame
Homosexual Books for First Graders
Evidence God exists is all around you. The Earth, the sky, the life; it's all evidence.
Homosexual Books for First Graders
ehh...no. that is very weak evidence, considering I can just point to the Big Bang Theory. Certainly that theory has flaws, but it makes sense to a certain extent. You can surely do better than that.
Burning in water, drowning in flame
Homosexual Books for First Graders
Yes, but the first time is not her fault. The second time if she received the scolding is. Much like a child. How do we learn what is right from wrong? People tell us, we test it out. If we are told it is bad to hurt an animal, we won't because we know it's wrong. If we touch a hot stove and hurt ourselves, we know not to do it again. It's the same thing in two different forms. We do not know what is right from wrong in the beginning. We figure it out or someone tells us.
True but we do it anyway. Why? Mental defect, the joy of it, in rage or passion, etc. Animals can be the first one. They can have joy in it as well.
Yet we do kill each for reasons above. And most of the time, evading an oncoming predator is to a) look bigger than the threat b) run away c) scare the predator d) hide or e) kill. E is usually done if none of the above works. That is self-defense in the animal world, there is no unnecessary killing. We have killed other humans for this self-defense. Evading a predator is self-defense. That is not killing without a purpose. We can talk all we want with people but does it matter if he or she will kill you anyway? Not really. Guilt trips can be triggered, sometimes...
So really, we kill for several different reasons. Animals kill for survival and maybe of a mental defect. Though animals shouldn't be our all time role model, neither should Nicole Richie or Paris Hilton for that matter.
Yes it can be. But it should not set us completely aside from the laws of nature. The laws of nature are something we cannot be separated from. We may have intelligence but where does it go when panic takes over during a volcanic eruption? It goes straight down the drain. Fear overpowers intelligence, thusly making us revert to instincts. We can do everything up until fear takes control. The laws of nature can scare us into thinking back to what we need to do, not what we should do.
We have evidence a bunch of different Gods exist. We have evidence that evolution happened. Which is more likely? We don't know. The evidence we have about Gods is oral history which can change. Look at fairy tales. The originals are more gruesome but as time goes on, we children are sheltered. The stories become happy and cheerful. We don't know if these stories have changed meaning from being oral history to being written on paper. Many stories do, ask any storywriter.
Yes it can. I have faith I'll wake up early tomorrow. I have no evidence that it'll happen but it can. I have faith my cat will attack me tomorrow. The only evidence I can say of this is because my cat attacks me usually. That isn't scientific evidence at all.
I'd have to agree with ThePariah on this one. Theories are all we are presenting. The Earth could've been a rogue meteor, gaining enough mass to create a planet. Most moons are meteors caught in the orbit of a planet. Life can come from somewhere else, not just Gods.
Homosexual Books for First Graders
If you can explain to me how the Big Bang Theory is more believable than the Bible, then I will reconsider. But I find it impossible for everything to come from nothing.
Homosexual Books for First Graders
We figure it out, but we also use different abilities. I would say you have never seen someone deemed an enemy being beaten beyond recognition. Would you help them? By instinct, no. They are your enemy, and any harm done to your enemy must be good, right?
That does not make it right for us to do it.
Yes, that is my entire point and beyond. Neither animals nor people should be our true role models, as animals deal with different circumstances and people sin. That is why we should look to a higher power (I also dislike Paris Hilton).
Fear can overpower people yes, but that does not mean it should and it always does. If that was the case then technology towards things we fear would be for naught. But our technology all but exempts us from the natural world. Some people may fall into times where they are caught without technology, but for the most part technology dominates when around. When a volcano erupts, people flee. With technology, we flee further, faster, and much more organised. Yes we still use instincts, but through this technology, which serves as a wall between us and the natural world.
What evidence do we have for other gods? Whereas Christianity has many many supporting documents other than the Bible, and it has been recorded from seperate sources the Israelites were under control of Egypt for a time, no other religion has this support. While we may not have been around to see the world begin, you have evolution and I have my faith. My faith could be made up you say? Who's to say some fossils may not have been faked; important fossils at that. The whole basis for disproving either of them is human error, and anything man-made can have error to it. So I will continue to believe, and perhaps look into evolution, and trust what is said is not lies or half-truths.
You also have faith that what things that are being told to you aren't totally lies, like what your parents or teachers say. I have that and faith what is in the Bible is not an elaborate hoax.
I put my response to that last one in my last post. Now I'm going to sleep, so don't expect any more replies tonight.
Homosexual Books for First Graders
Rambunctious is doing a better job explaining things than I could've. The points you're bringing up against evolution are rather obsolete, though they're still popular creationist ammo. Today, we understand enough about evolution to recognize it as fact. There is no question that life is always changing and entirely new species and groups can and do arise from old. It has to, or it couldn't survive in the ever-changing environment.
However, what I said about biology explaining everything had nothing to do with evolution. I was simply pointing out that your arguments against animal sentience are all rooted in the same science that explains away your own behavior.
That's what most believed up until recently. We now know that african greys can often fully understand the meanings behind human words, often far more words than they've even learned how to pronounce themselves. They just aren't too concerned with always using them at the right times. Like certain small children, and hey, plenty of adults, they talk whenever the hell they feel like it just because they can.Parrots as well. They have no idea what we are saying, they just have the vocal chords to imitate what we say. Though there was an African Gray that could count and write words with magnetic letters, he probably didn't understand this.
I don't know, hang on, let me think back to all those times I killed someone (sorry, had to do it. Really ill-conceived question, there)Also, that negative feeling you get when you kill someone, where do you think it comes from?
People learn remorse and compassion from others around them. It's not something you're born with, and there are MILLIONS who kill every single day for reasons they feel are "justified", and they never look back.
Don't get me started on insects. I believe I already said I was a student of invertebrate zoology. Insects are my passion. I could fill a book with my personal opinions and observations.Ants...
I'll just say that individuals colonies of ants within the same species actually can develop lifestyles and habits different from one another. One nest might lean more towards violence, the other might prefer to cooperate...only to be pillaged and enslaved by their neighbor. Just because their perception of their own life is simpler than ours does not make it something completely different from ours.
Imagine an alien race capable of literally ten trillion (yes, trillion, let's go overboard here) times the intelligence, emotion, and physical pain as you, and how much they would care about our world. Certain organisms may feel and think less than you do, but they certainly don't know that. They live lives as complex, meaningful and passionatte as they are capable of perceiving, and no matter how tiny that perception is, it's there, and I think it's just as relatively important to them as it is to us. A worm may not feel pain on the level that we do, but it struggles and panics all the same in the face of injury. What little semblance of stress (by our standards) that its tiny mind can generate still ravages its tiny senses as heart-stopping terror would for you.
Um, NO. A human being does not know they've done wrong or magically "feel" it until they are taught. Same as the dog.Humans also use this, but we use other things as well (concience).
Sorry, but those of you saying that no other religion has as much evidence as christianity are just blatantly wrong. Members of ANY major theology (and then some) could provide you with equal proof of their respective dieties. There is simply nothing supporting christianity specifically above all other faiths. If you had been raised in another country you could have turned out utterly faithful to any other belief system and would scoff at christianity to the end, and don't give me the predictable "God would guide my heart to him!" answer. A muslim would say the same about Allah if presented with this "alternate life" question. Plenty of people leave christianity to pursue other religions that they feel "truly" drawn to. It IS all relative.*various stuff about evidence*
Don't feel like I'm putting down what you believe, I'm just backing up my own reasons for not following any particular religion. If I couldn't, I'd have a serious problem.
Homosexual Books for First Graders
While I don't have the evidence to combat the evolution theory, evolution can only explain some of the way we think. Instinct is not all we use.
Could you refer me to something about the African Grey and its understanding of human words (moreso out of curiosity)?
If people learn remorse from others around them, where did THEY get it from? You just said you don't know what it feels like to kill somebody. So how do you know some people never look back on it?
What a coincidence. Insects are also my passion. An ants perception is completely different from ours. Where as we have individual minds, beliefs, and experiences, they have very few; much like a simple computer program. Their minor changes could be argued as simple adaptation.
Yes, but for us we have thoughts that go through our minds in times of crisis. Insects react when they are attacked; like a simple robot. A person can take into consideration what is happening and decide whether to retaliate or not (unless they're panicking, in which they have bowed to instinct), while it is instinct for animals.
Um, YES. I ask you again, if your worst enemy was being attacked (life threatening), would you help him, or let him die? He is your enemy after all, so anything bad to him must not affect or be good for you...right?
How would you know that every other religion has the same facts and historical support? It seems to me you just don't even consider the historical basis supporting Christianity, but choose to ignore the facts. I would like to see some historical evidence supporting the Hindu religion, or the Wiccan one. Please, by all means, find me some evidence to support them.
Then again, there's also quite a few people coming to Christianity as well.
I'm just backing up my point too.
Homosexual Books for First Graders
oh oh oh. ii'm not saying evolution is completely wrong. micro-evolution, or evolution within species exists, yes. but where is proof of species evolving in things totally different? the archaeopterix (if i spelled that write) has been seen as an intermediate form between lizards and birds. but how? it had as many as 1,000,000 hair (things) on each feather. that is not intermediate.
darwin's finches are one example of what people use to say evolution is true. yes, the average beak size of finches increases during droughts, but oyu know what, the average beak size returns to normal when rain comes back!
not every other religeon has as much proof as Christianity. No person, place, or even country mentioned in te book of mormon has ever been found. i would venture to guess that Christianity has the most proof. There has been a whole feild of supporting Christian beleifs called "Christian apologetics".
did anyone know that there are 60 major prophecies about the Messiah in the Old Testament. All came true. Many of them were not under Jesus control. Som are, his place of birth, the way people cast lots for his clothes, and get this, the way he died (even though crucifiction hadn't been invented yet).
i can provide verses if anyone wants them.
is anyone going to TRY to explain the Cambrian explosion?
Homosexual Books for First Graders
did it ever occur to you that possibly the bible is completely made up? haha. i'm not saying it is. I'm just saying there is no proof to think that it is 100% correct. And much of it is contradictory, so how can you say contradicting things are 100% correct? That's quite the paradox.
Burning in water, drowning in flame
Homosexual Books for First Graders
"um...no there is no evidence God exists. Sorovis, there are photographs of historical people. there are paintings of historical people. and God isn't a person anyway.
and yeah5, in the religious sense, faith is a trust in God even though there is no proof. i DO know what i'm talking about. God is not a living, concrete thing. It is an abstract idea. We like to romanticize that he is a white male, perhaps even with facial hair, but the truth of the matter is, those are all made up."
ok. just quit. there is plenty of evidence that God exists. i have stated some. second, faith doesn't require physical evidence. it doesn't mean that if you have faith you can't have any evidence. many people have both.
it seems that you interperet "evidence" the same way as "proof". We will never PROVE God exists until Jesus return. Where, then, would faith be? There is EVIDENCE of God and some real and some seeming EVIDENCE of evolution. If evolution is proven, then why won't our school's books say so? Why is it still called a THEORY? The FACT is that evolution is not proven.
Even if we proved that God existed, many would not beleive.
second, no, there are no photographs of God, he is a spirit. He became flesh into the form of Jesus, but you know, there were no cameras when Jesus lived here physically. Nobody sees God physically anymore until the return of Jesus or in heaven. how do you paint a spirit?
Homosexual Books for First Graders
um...lol. i know religious people, and at least they can actually put up a good argument. you nor sorovis have stated any sufficient evidence as to the evidence of God. don't make me debate myself. I'll start giving proof for you. and then refute it. and go and forth between myself. but i'm too lazy to do that. i officially declare this debate over, because it has gone no where for 5 pages. plus, homosexuality isn't wrong. it's natural. and it should be taught early on. after all, that was the point of this thread.
Burning in water, drowning in flame
Homosexual Books for First Graders
"did it ever occur to you that possibly the bible is completely made up? haha. i'm not saying it is. I'm just saying there is no proof to think that it is 100% correct. And much of it is contradictory, so how can you say contradicting things are 100% correct? That's quite the paradox."
you have no basis that it was "made up". if it was made up, then how come people that would have "made it up" died for it when given the chance to deny it and live? they would know that they made it up if they did.
there is no PROOF to that that it is false. There was beleif in Jesus in as little as 2 years after his death. i beleive it was much sooner that that though. The New Testament is very historically accurate. There are 8 (i think 8) tests that documents pass to be called historically accurate. not only applied to the Bible. The new Testament passes all 8, much better than many other historical sources. Then, are you willing to argue that the Bible is historically accurate, yet parts were made up? Thats the only place you have left to argue.
Homosexual Books for First Graders
haha. ignore whatever you want to irgnore. if it so pleases you
Homosexual Books for First Graders
i never said it was made up. i just think it would be funny if it turned out to be made up. in fact, most likely most of the old testament is made up. the new testament could be historically true for all i care. the fact of the matter is sexuality is a natural thing, and therefore can't be labeled as "wrong" or "right". it simply is. and there is no denying that.
edit: and you can stop spamming now, too ;-)
Burning in water, drowning in flame
Homosexual Books for First Graders
So you suddenly have the power to close the thread? Just because your getting nowhere yourself is no reason to insult us. You just complained about no evidence, right? So where's all your evidence? Where's your evidence on how homosexuality is natural? You're really wasting time, and spamming yourself, actually.]
If Damian and Rambunctious can come up with good arguments and support them, you should be able to as well.
Homosexual Books for First Graders
i already have. you guys just never responded to them.
edit: stop spamming, sorovis.
edit 2: oh, but i have. not my fault if you don't recognize what i say as being a good argument.
Burning in water, drowning in flame
Homosexual Books for First Graders
Like what? Seems to me you've been wasting space, not providing a good argument.
Homosexual Books for First Graders
I've responded to the claim that the Bible was made up. I am unable to fathom how any intelligent person who has ever read a good amount of the Bible can call it made up. If one person made it up, then they would either have to completely predict what would happen int he NT times or know what went on in the old testament times. (keep in mind during NT times, the main source of history was the torah which is the OT plus a couple extra books)
I'm not saying the OT is false. But what we're debating here is mainly the NT anyway. Romans (a NT) book 1:26 calls homosexuality wrong. Since the rules of Levicticus were mostly negated (as far as I know) by a meeting that occured in the Acts. So we are unable to rely on Levicticus.
Evidence of God. How can you say that the universe doesn't count? Gravity cannot create the incomprehensible order that is the universe. Scientists can predict where stars will appear to be (to us on Earth) millenia from now. A big explosion does not create that.
Also, science contradicts itself. The Law of Conservation of Mass says that mass can neither be create or destroyed.
If science says that something comes from nothing, that's matter being created. I know the Big Bang theory revolves around an extremely dense star spontaneously combusted, but it still has to come from somewhere.
Also, the Red Sea parting has been scienfically explained. Napolean had engineers investigate it. That proves that it could happen. That's proof for the OT. The 'coincidence' that it parted just when the Israelites needed it and lasted just long enough for them to get across but drown the Egyptians indismissable. It could not be a coincidence. There's some proof of divine intervention which evidences the divine.
Also, the New Testament (which has been proven true) vouches for the old testament by fulfilling all the messianic prophecies and saying that all scripture is God breathed.
That's all I have to say now for lack of time.
Homosexual Books for First Graders
I've responded to the claim that the Bible was made up. I am unable to fathom how any intelligent person who has ever read a good amount of the Bible can call it made up. If one person made it up, then they would either have to completely predict what would happen int he NT times or know what went on in the old testament times. (keep in mind during NT times, the main source of history was the torah which is the OT plus a couple extra books)
i never said it was made up.
I'm not saying the OT is false. But what we're debating here is mainly the NT anyway. Romans (a NT) book 1:26 calls homosexuality wrong. Since the rules of Levicticus were mostly negated (as far as I know) by a meeting that occured in the Acts. So we are unable to rely on Levicticus.
actually i didn't really want the bible to be brought into it. mainly because it doesn't have authority over everyone.
Evidence of God. How can you say that the universe doesn't count? Gravity cannot create the incomprehensible order that is the universe. Scientists can predict where stars will appear to be (to us on Earth) millenia from now. A big explosion does not create that.
of course the universe doesn't count. A big explosion CAN create a universe. We're just thinking too 2-dimensionally. I'm talking about the explosion of all explosions. So big, we can't even fathom it.
Also, science contradicts itself. The Law of Conservation of Mass says that mass can neither be create or destroyed.
and? where is the contradiction?
If science says that something comes from nothing, that's matter being created. I know the Big Bang theory revolves around an extremely dense star spontaneously combusted, but it still has to come from somewhere.
why DOES it have to come from somewhere? couldn't it have "just been there"?
i can't believe there are actually christians out there that think homosexuality is wrong. this is crazy.
Burning in water, drowning in flame
Homosexual Books for First Graders
you said "did it ever occur to you that possibly the bible is completely made up?"
Homosexual Books for First Graders
Science doesn't say any mass came from nothing. Science say that (as far as we know), all the present mass was already there before the big bang.
Kindly do verify the theory you criticize Checkmate - the Big Bang is about all the existing mass (which was always there in one form or another) expanding (and thus transforming, which is well within the limits of science), not about an explosion suddenly creating mass or the mass appearing there out of nowhere.
There is no reason to assume it's impossible that something (wether God *or* the mass) was always there.
The Universe is not sufficent evidence of anything - on the scientifical basis all we can observe is that there is a universe ; we CANNOT observe that it was inteligently designed from what is around. We can theorize it was - just as we can theorize it wasn't. (And I'm adressing the criticism here to BOTH sides). Either theory is, as long as its based only on "the universe exists and work as it does", based on no proof whatsoever.
Homosexual Books for First Graders
haha. that's you explanation? it was just there? you need to work on things a bit ThePariah. You know we have good explanations. You know we have provided good evidence. at least one bit of it has been unresponded to. the literal pages of the New Testament don't have authority over you. The God who spoke the words does wether you like it or not. He was killed in one of the most awful ways possible to save YOU. everyone. All you have to do is beleive that His death paid for your sins and that He rose from the dead. The rest will follow. you think this is rediculous. it IS the truth and there is only one truth.
we can keep on debating though. it can be fun. it can help me learn and sharpen my debating skills.
oh yeah. Checkmate's point is that for there to be an explosion, something had to explode, and something had to start an explosion. Even Einstein eventually accepted the idea , "the necessity for a begining" and "the presence of a superior reasoning power." are you smarter that Einstein? i got that from "The Creation Hypothesis"
Homosexual Books for First Graders
and then, in case you don't know how to read, i said something to the effect of, "I don't necessarily believe that, but it would be funny if it were true."
Burning in water, drowning in flame
Homosexual Books for First Graders
The God who spoke the words does wether you like it or not.
actually no. if I don't believe in God, then he doesn't rule over me. truth of the matter is, I DO believe in God, but I do not feel that it is fair to say that all other religions are wrong.
Burning in water, drowning in flame
Homosexual Books for First Graders
Then which God do you believe in? Because Christianity is based that there is only one God, and no others. So where is this evidence you speak of, anyways? If it is out there, then you'd re-post it to make your point.
Damian, everything must come from somewhere, and I find it absolutely impossible that random matter has been around for all of eternity before the Big Bang and had come from nowhere.
Homosexual Books for First Graders
i believe in the same God you do. I just don't hate gays.
and, i also don't believe that Christianity is the only religion. I don't hate other religions.
Burning in water, drowning in flame
Homosexual Books for First Graders
Pariah, how can you say it's crazy for Christians to be against homosexuality. It's in the Bible for crying out loud!! If we're not aloud to go by the Bible what do we go by? Do we become just another person on the streets who says stuff is wrong, just because it is. We Christians have a reason for believing something is wrong. It's because a God who created the universe and knows it better than we can comprehend said it was wrong. It's black and white.
I cannot take a painting by a famous artist and say "This paintings says this." I could, but that's only my opinion. However if the artist walks in the room and says "No. This painting says that not this." Who am I to contradict him? I can ask him how he showed that meaning in the painting. I can ask him about that painting, but I am not the authority on the painting. The creator is. So who are we to say that the creator of the universe is wrong about something that has to do with the universe he created. It's ludicrous!
Also, we apparently have to repeat once again that we don't hate gays. We are against the act of homosexuality but not homosexuals. Just like we are against lies, but do not hate liars. We are debating that homosexuality is sin.
Homosexual Books for First Graders
you can use some common sense. use your sense of morality. you can go by the bible for the basics. my understanding of the bible is loosely-based. i believe in Jesus' 2 main commandments. and those other 10 commandments. and some other stuff. but not hating homosexuality. my common sense tells me that there is nothing wrong with it, BECAUSE it is not something that is wrong/right. It is natural. Homosexuality happens in animals. Therefore, I believe homosexuality naturally happens in humans. There is no right/wrong issue with nature. That's my common sense and sense of morality for you. Also, I believe killing people is wrong. Not because the bible says so, but because of the conditioning I've had, and because no one has enough claim over anyone else to just outright kill them. Most of my morality agrees with Christianity. Some of the main things we disagree on are homosexuality, views of women, and masturbation/pornography. And pre-marital sex. Basically anything that has to do with sex, because Christianity is too prude.
Burning in water, drowning in flame
Homosexual Books for First Graders
but there is no debate over whether or not the artist painted that painting. however, people do contest God's creation of the universe. mainly because he didn't.
Burning in water, drowning in flame
Homosexual Books for First Graders
How can you believe what you want out of the Bible and not what you don't want to believe?? It's either all or nothing. I've already explained the homosexuality in animals thing. Plus, you STILL have not re-posted your evidence.
If you don't believe God created the universe, then what do you believe of the Bible? (plus you once again have no evidence on that)
Homosexual Books for First Graders
because I feel the bible is wrong in some situations. no big deal. might be hard for you to understand, but I do not take the bible as wholly right or wholly wrong. I don't feel like reposting anything. It's all in the thread somewhere.
Burning in water, drowning in flame
Homosexual Books for First Graders
You say one thing about the Bible and deem it correct. You see another and deem it incorrect. Is that to say that you have authority over the Bible. You say you believe in God. Is this to say that you call the shots. You're wiser than God? You know more than he does about homosexuality?
Also, you claim it's ok because it's natural. Sin itself is natural. Therefore, if homosexuality is natural (not to say it's genetic) then it fits one of the criteria of sin. It's natural for a person to lie about what they did to avoid punishment. It's natural for a person to steal something they want rather than buy or work for it. Are these things still sin? According to the Ten commandments they are. Yet they are perfectly natural and normal things for a person to do. They're wrong. But they're natural.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote