PS2:A Discussion

[PNT510]

Funny that you mention how you hate Wind Waker, cuz the new game is being built off the Wind Waker engine.

[Heald]

Damn, that's such a hard decision to make.

I didn't like Wind Waker, at all. I found it far too easy to complete and the note changes of when you attacked just, well pissed me off in the end. I felt it was a downgrade to Ocarina Of Time. But that's my opinion =]

Of course Wind Waker was worse than Ocarina of Time, OoT is the best game made ever.

PSP will sell well because the ignorant will probably think "OMG Playstation Portable!! PS2 THAT YOU CAN CARRY AROUND!!"

Did you see the GBA pre-production pictures that showed the GBA prototype model with that picture of Super Mario 64 with Mario standing outside the castle as what was currently on the screen?

Despite the fact the GBA doesn't even have a 3d engine -_-;;

Basically, Sony and Nintendo are in the same basket here: the prototypes are complete and utter lies but no doubt people will buy them anyway.

[PhatZapdos]

Funny that you mention how you hate Wind Waker, cuz the new game is being built off the Wind Waker engine.

bah...r u serious....

i didnt like WW ither....i found it...boring....


start ur flaming here .

[Yoh Asakura]

Funny that you mention how you hate Wind Waker, cuz the new game is being built off the Wind Waker engine.

Would that be the Cell shaded game or the really cool looking one?

[PNT510]

The new one.

[GreenShirT]

The top Zelda picture is not from the new game, I think it is from SSBM possibly...

The new one looks mint though!

[Gengachu]

Of course Wind Waker was worse than Ocarina of Time, OoT is the best game made ever.Did you see the GBA pre-production pictures that showed the GBA prototype model with that picture of Super Mario 64 with Mario standing outside the castle as what was currently on the screen?

Despite the fact the GBA doesn't even have a 3d engine -_-;;

Basically, Sony and Nintendo are in the same basket here: the prototypes are complete and utter lies but no doubt people will buy them anyway.

OoT isn't even the best Zelda. That honor would go to LttP. OoT isn't bad, but it's basically just LttP in 3D with slightly worse level design and ambient music.

That's the DS. Not the new Game Boy. And I don't see any reason why you should think Nintendo's lying. Have you seen Mario vs DK, yet. While they aren't animated, the cutscenes look like they're from a 64 game. The DS should be able to handle Mario 64. Plus they showed some other games, too. Metroid Prime Hunters, some Pacman games, Wario Ware DS, and some other stuff which I've forgotten. There's no reason to believe that the DS is BS.

The PSP on the other hand...all they've shown are movies, and that not a good sign. Plus the battery life is supposedly 10 hours just when your listening to mp3s. Games will probably last 3 hours, and movies 2 hours. You combine all that with Sony's history of overrating the power of their systems, and there's no reason to believe it's going to be good. Plus most of the games that have been announced are ports of PS1 games, and most of the the people who would probably buy it could already play those games on their PS1/2. I just don't see any reason to think it'll be worth whatever outrageous price they'll make it be.

And that top Zelda is from the spaceworld demo, I mentioned. Notice how Link looks very feminim(however you spell it).

[Lezta]

I hate the PS2 because it killed the Dreamcast. There really is no other reason. Is it blatent fanboyism? Yes, of course it is.

Besides, I have easy access to an XBox and I own a Gamecube.

[Razola]

The reason the PS2 is far more popular is because it had the chronological advantage.

Are you trying to be stupid on purpose? Let me repeat myself, AGAIN, since you aren't catching on:

DREAMCAST MUCH?

The PS2 without the precious supply of 3rd party titles, is crap. X-Box has really redeemed itself in my eyes since launch. Live is an excellent service, and it's well supported. And the X-Box version of any 3rd Party title is always going to be better.

Oh, and LttP is the best Zelda game.

[PNT510]

Link's Awakening > LttP

[Yoh Asakura]

The top Zelda picture is not from the new game, I think it is from SSBM possibly...

The new one looks mint though!

It's not from SSBM. It was a demo at the GCN launch to show off what it could do.

Oh, and LttP is the best Zelda game.

Damn right. I do hope the Ocarina Of Time in the style of LttP is finished.

[Heald]

Are you trying to be stupid on purpose? Let me repeat myself, AGAIN, since you aren't catching on:

MY CAPSLOCK IS BROKEN AND I HAVE A BRAIN DYSFUNCTION THAT CAUSES ME TO WRITE IN A NEEDLESSLY LARGE FONT OMG!

The Dreamcast did not have any popular mainstream games.

If you actually read the rest of my argument instead of just quoting one part of it you...actually, why the hell should I explain it.

And, for your information, I think most 3rd party games that are multi-console suck. The Two Towers, Sonic Heroes, some other crap. Obviously you get good ones too e.g. Prince of Persia, SSX.

The PS2 has great third-party exclusive titles such as GT, Jak, Rachett and it gets great games such as GTA and MGS about six months before other consoles. That is why the PS2 is good.

The problem with Nintendo and their first-party titles is that unlike having an army of other companies to produce games for them, they are limited to how many games they can make at once. That is why a great game can come out on the PS2 every other months whereas Nintendo release them with much greater gaps, and then just release another Mario Party in between to keep the kids happy (this is not a comment on NGC being a kiddy console, it is a figure of speech).

And, FYI, OoT > All.

[Razola]

The Dreamcast did not have any popular mainstream games.

You have one post to convince me you've been playing games for more than a year.

The PS2 has great third-party exclusive titles such as GT, Jak, Rachett and it gets great games such as GTA and MGS about six months before other consoles. That is why the PS2 is good.

Didn't I say that? Didn't I say that if you took away all it's precious 3rd party titles, the system would be very undesirable? Yes, yes I did.

The problem with Nintendo and their first-party titles is that unlike having an army of other companies to produce games for them, they are limited to how many games they can make at once. That is why a great game can come out on the PS2 every other months whereas Nintendo release them with much greater gaps, and then just release another Mario Party in between to keep the kids happy (this is not a comment on NGC being a kiddy console, it is a figure of speech).

Quanity does not equal quality.

And, FYI, OoT > All.

I'm tempted to say LttP again, but PNT reminded me of Awakening. Mmmm mmmm good.

[PhatZapdos]

The Dreamcast did not have any popular mainstream games.

what the hell are you talking about :|

[PNT510]

GT, Jak and, Rachett and Clank aren't 3rd party games. They are first party games. Sony owns Naughty Dog, Insomniac, and Whoever makes Grand Turismo.


And if DC didn't have mainstream games please tell me what kinda games Crazy Taxi, PSO, Sonic, Capcom vs SNK, Marvel vs Capcom and many others are?

Nintedo also has enough people working for them to where they can release alot of hits. Last year we saw Wind Waker, Mario Party 5, Mario Kart: Double Dash !! and a few others I belive. What stand out games did Sony have last year? FFX-2 and that's pretty much it.

[Heald]

You have one post to convince me you've been playing games for more than a year.

I loved playing Tank on the Atari and Mr Wimpy on the Commodore 64.

Didn't I say that? Didn't I say that if you took away all it's precious 3rd party titles, the system would be very undesirable? Yes, yes I did.

Sony doesn't develop games and it seldom produces them, examples being the Getaway and Singstar, plus the EyeToy games. So all the PS2 has is 3rd party games. So, here is an equation:

PS2 - 3rd Party Games = PS2 with very few games.

Now, unless your argument is that no one would buy the PS2 because they have no games, which is retarded because I could equally argue if the NGC had no games it would be very undesirable, a console needs games otherwise no one would buy it, then yes, it would be undesirable. I still don't see what is the problem with Sony getting 3rd parties to produce all their games for their console.

Quanity does not equal quality.

No, but Sony can push high-quality games onto its consoles much faster than Nintendo can. And don't give me crap about how all of Nintendo's games are the best ever because they only produce a really really big game about once a year. Otherwise, most of their games are high quality but on par with Sony games such as Jak, Rachet, GT etc

I'm tempted to say LttP again, but PNT reminded me of Awakening. Mmmm mmmm good.

Indeed. Awakening is good, but I still stand by OoT owns all.

I am an asshat. Please shun me.

There we go.

GT, Jak and, Rachett and Clank aren't 3rd party games. They are first party games. Sony owns Naughty Dog, Insomniac, and Whoever makes Grand Turismo.

Sony does not develop these, therefore they are not first-party. It is like saying Rare is a first-party for Microsoft becase it isn't.

And if DC didn't have mainstream games please tell me what kinda games Crazy Taxi, PSO, Sonic, Capcom vs SNK, Marvel vs Capcom and many others are?

Crazy Taxi was indeed popular but it did get old incredibly fast and it is not a must get game. It had the lifespan of a mayfly. PSO, because UK never got DC online, was never released over here, so I don't know about that. Sonic Adventure plain sucked, although it is popular and mainstream. Capcom versus games were definately not mainstream, people preferred more up-to-date games.

Nintedo also has enough people working for them to where they can release alot of hits. Last year we saw Wind Waker, Mario Party 5, Mario Kart: Double Dash !! and a few others I belive. What stand out games did Sony have last year? FFX-2 and that's pretty much it.

Mario Party 5 is debately a hit. Just because it is Nintendo doesn't mean it isn't the same rehashed stuff, just with the slight number increment at the end of its name. Last year, PS2 had many hits, FFX-2 not even being the biggest...

Jak 2
Rachet and Clank 2
The EyeToy games
Pro Evolution Soccer 3 (this was huge in the UK)
Dancing Stage Megamix
Freedom Fighters
Ape Escape 2
Smackdown: HCTP
Manhunt
Crash Nitro Kart
FFX-2

And those are only the ones I can think off the top of my head.

NB All these games sold huge in the UK, even if they aren't any good so don't bother pointing out they didn't hit in USA or they aren't any good, I don't care.

[PNT510]

Mario Party 5 is a hit. I belive it's the #2 selling GCN game of last year.

Jak 2 - An okay game, nothing too special
Rachet and Clank 2 - A great game
The EyeToy games - Crap
Pro Evolution Soccer 3 (this was huge in the UK) - I'll take your word for it
Dancing Stage Megamix - Would this be like DDR?
Freedom Fighters - Not that big of a hit, Also on XBox and GCN
Ape Escape 2 - Good game, but hardly a popular and mainstream game if Capcom Vs and Crazt Taxi arent
Smackdown: HCTP - Good
Manhunt - A flop, also on Xbox
Crash Nitro Kart - Not popular, Also on XBox
FFX-2 - I already Mentioned this

[Heald]

NB All these games sold huge in the UK, even if they aren't any good so don't bother pointing out they didn't hit in USA or they aren't any good, I don't care.

You either didn't read this or you're just doing this to piss me off.

[Razola]

Thanks Herald, for missing the point. Let's go over it one more time:

PS2 - 3rd Party Games = Little to Desire
Cube - 3rd Party Games = Good Buy

I'm talking about strength of 1st Party games, in case the point still eludes you.

[Heald]

Thanks Herald, for missing the point. Let's go over it one more time:

PS2 - 3rd Party Games = Little to Desire
Cube - 3rd Party Games = Good Buy

I'm talking about strength of 1st Party games, in case the point still eludes you.

Now, unless your argument is that no one would buy the PS2 because they have no games, which is retarded...

Basically, your argument is one-sided because third-party games are all the PS2 have. Therefore, it is retarded to argue the case that without third-party games the PS2 has no games and therefore it is crap because the argument should be this:

PS2 - All Games = Little to Desire
Cube - All Games = Little to Desire

That way it is more fair. You cannot say that just because Nintendo can make their own games (albeit how good) that that makes it the more desirable console.

[PNT510]

It helps though, because then if 3rd parties stop dropping from the console it can still suport itself with first party games.

[Dark Scizor]

First of all, even if the controller was based on the SNES, in my opinion it has the best controller out of the three consoles.

+ the following additions and a change of the button names with symbols etc. (I will change the image later on)

= OMFG its the PS2 pad.


Oh, and Happy Brithday

PSP will sell well because the ignorant will probably think "OMG Playstation Portable!! PS2 THAT YOU CAN CARRY AROUND!!"

I have to agree, since just about every person in the UK, or Yorkshire at least is like that over anything to do with Sony and games. They also know nothing and assume anything other then the PS2 sucks.

GT, Jak and, Rachett and Clank aren't 3rd party games. They are first party games. Sony owns Naughty Dog, Insomniac, and Whoever makes Grand Turismo.

I wouldn't exactly regard them as first party. Even though the companies producing the game are owned by the console makes, they are not the same company and therefore are second party developers (eg. Rare to Microsoft).

Sony do not make games themselves (Well not to my knowledge anyway) and therefore have no first party games, they are all supplied by second and third parties. If what i am saying is true, then Nintendo is the only company to my knowledge that develops its own games and therefore has the only console with first party support.

Anyways, just to compare console power, compare James Bond: Agent Under Fire on The PS2 to the GC (I know its an old game and things will have changed, but its an example):tongue:

Had something else to add from another quote but firefox crashed and i couldn't find the post Gonna edit it in later on if i find it.

[Edit] God damn image host lol, changing it now

[Gengachu]

The Dreamcast did not have any popular mainstream games.

If you actually read the rest of my argument instead of just quoting one part of it you...actually, why the hell should I explain it.

And, for your information, I think most 3rd party games that are multi-console suck. The Two Towers, Sonic Heroes, some other crap. Obviously you get good ones too e.g. Prince of Persia, SSX.

The PS2 has great third-party exclusive titles such as GT, Jak, Rachett and it gets great games such as GTA and MGS about six months before other consoles. That is why the PS2 is good.

The problem with Nintendo and their first-party titles is that unlike having an army of other companies to produce games for them, they are limited to how many games they can make at once. That is why a great game can come out on the PS2 every other months whereas Nintendo release them with much greater gaps, and then just release another Mario Party in between to keep the kids happy (this is not a comment on NGC being a kiddy console, it is a figure of speech).

And, FYI, OoT > All.

Metal Gear Solid was released(although illegally) on Dreamcast as Bleem Metal Gear Solid. GTA2 was released on Dreamcast, so you can't use those two series to bash the Dreamcast. Plus not all the Metal Gear Games debuted on PS2. MGS2 substance was originally released on X-Box.

And haven't any you heard of second parties? That's what Rare is. That's what Naughty Dog(or whoever it is that makes those platformers on PS2) is.

PS2 - 3rd Party = 2nd Party Games
GCN - 3rd Party = 1st Party Games + 2nd Party Games

And Mario Party isn't a Nintendo Game it was developed by Hudson, makers of Bomberman.

[Dark Scizor]

Metal Gear Solid was released(although illegally) on Dreamcast as Bleem Metal Gear Solid. GTA2 was released on Dreamcast, so you can't use those two series to bash the Dreamcast. Plus not all the Metal Gear Games debuted on PS2. MGS2 substance was originally released on X-Box.

And haven't any you heard of second parties? That's what Rare is. That's what Naughty Dog(or whoever it is that makes those platformers on PS2) is.

PS2 - 3rd Party = 2nd Party Games
GCN - 3rd Party = 1st Party Games + 2nd Party Games

And Mario Party isn't a Nintendo Game it was developed by Hudson, makers of Bomberman.

As said by me in the post above lolol

Anyway, i could just take a little mistake and say.... "Plus not all the Metal Gear Games debuted on PS2" and reply with It debuted on the NES mwuhahahahaha its Metal Gear Solid and MGS2 that debuted on the PS and PS2 (respectively). But i know that its a little mistake and thus, i don't mean it.

[Razola]

Basically, your argument is one-sided because third-party games are all the PS2 have.

Christ, you're thick. THAT'S MY POINT, YOU DOLT. ALL PS2 HAS IS 3RD PARTY TITLES. Stop eating paint chips.

That way it is more fair. You cannot say that just because Nintendo can make their own games (albeit how good) that that makes it the more desirable console.

Yes I can. Because that means more quality titles you can't get on any other console. You are acting so stupid I can't believe I'm spelling it out this bluntly. Everyone else is getting it. You can port 3rd Party titles to ANY SYSTEM. Gamecube, X-Box, PS2. Why play them on a PS2 when I can get them on the X-Box which also has GREAT 1st Party games?

Do you understand now? You're argument is idiotic because you equate 3rd Party to 1st Party just because all the PS2 has is third party. Which is wrong and borderline retarded.

[Gengachu]

Like I said above, PS2 would still have it's second party games.

[MToolen]

List some second party games, and I'll reconsider.

I like the Gamecube. Oddly enough, I also like the XBox and PS2. For me, it's not about what system it's on or if it's first, second, or third party-developed- it's just about whether it's a good game or not. The only reason I chose one (Gamecube) is because of its price; I can play PS2 or XBox at friends' houses. But heck, I, just this morning, chose a GBC game in favor of the Gamecube to play.

Also, my favor lies in LoZ:LttP, with OoT very close behind.

[Dark Scizor]

List some second party games, and I'll reconsider.

Eternal Darkness on the GCN, thats published by Nintendo but developed by Silicon Knights. A more famous example would be Goldeneye.

[Gengachu]

2nd Party - Metroid Prime(Retro Studios is a 2nd Party, not part of Nintendo), Jak and Daxter, Grabbed by the Ghoulies. There's one from each system and here are some more on Nintendo systems. Pokemon, Kirby, and Smash Bros are all made by 2nd Parties.

[Razola]

Metroid Prime should be considered 1st Party. 2nd Party implies that they could cut loose like Silicon Knights, but you'll never see Prime on any non-Nintendo system until Nintendo dies.

[Gengachu]

Prime is made by Retro with very little help from Nintendo(Nintendo did the music and oversaw the production). Retro is a 2nd Party, so it's a 2nd Party game. Yes we won't see Metroid on another system, but Retro could leave Nintendo and work on a new game for something else(not that it would happen. Things are going pretty well for them with Prime).

[PNT510]

While Retro Studios developed Metroid Prime it was Published by Nintendo making it first party game. Just like Halo is made by Bungie, but published by Microsoft so it's a first party game.

[Dark Scizor]

Just think of Goldeneye 007 by Rare on the N64, that was made by Second Party Rare, who were then sold to Microsoft to be their new second party developer as i said in my first post near the top of the page.

[Gengachu]

While Retro Studios developed Metroid Prime it was Published by Nintendo making it first party game. Just like Halo is made by Bungie, but published by Microsoft so it's a first party game.

Evey second party game is published by the second party's parent company. Using your logic, their are no second party games which just isn't true.

[Razola]

I consider 2nd Party to be games that could one day appear on other consoles. Like Metal Gear or Banjo-Kazooie. Metroid Prime is Nintendo's property, and thus is strictly in first party camp.

[The Muffin Man]

I consider 2nd Party to be games that could one day appear on other consoles. Like Metal Gear or Banjo-Kazooie. Metroid Prime is Nintendo's property, and thus is strictly in first party camp.

Exactly. Same with Pokemon, Kirby, and Smash Bros. You will NEVER see Kirby, any Pokemon, or anyone else in Smash Bros on any other console. Nintendo owns all the rights to Kirby, all 386 Pokemon, and everyone in Smash Bros.(until Kilik in the next SSB)

[Gengachu]

I thought Game Freak owned the rights to the Pokemon. And yeah I know you won't see Kirby on another system, but it and Smash Bros are still made by Hal's Labratory, not Nintendo. Oh well this is suppose to be a discussion about the PS2, not whether Pokemon is a 1st or 2nd Party game, so if anyone has anything else to say about PS2 say it.

[Heald]

SNES Pad + the following additions and a change of the button names with symbols
= OMFG its the PS2 pad.

He didn't say the SNES Pad wasn't the PS2 Pad, he said the PS2 pad was the best pad out of all the three.

Metal Gear Solid was released(although illegally) on Dreamcast as Bleem Metal Gear Solid. GTA2 was released on Dreamcast, so you can't use those two series to bash the Dreamcast. Plus not all the Metal Gear Games debuted on PS2. MGS2 substance was originally released on X-Box.

Christ, what are you people like? What is this, the fifth time you take one thing I said and use it on an unrelated medium? I was not using that comment to bash the Dreamcast. I wasn't even bashing the Dreamcast in the first place. The comment in question was actually being used to illustrate why people still bought the PS2 over the Gamecube and XBox. And MGS2 Substance was released on XBox, PS2 and PC simultaneously in the UK, I'm not sure about the US. Plus MGS2 Substance was just MGS2 (which the PS2 got first, mind) with extras (such as a demo for Konami's Skateboarding game) tacked on, so I don't exactly call that getting a MGS game first. Konami were originally going to sell MGS2 of Xbox anyway as in the deal, Konami said that MGS2 would be on PS2 several months before other consoles. Since they were bringing out the same game but with extras they sold it on XBox after the several months had passed.

Christ, you're thick. THAT'S MY POINT, YOU DOLT. ALL PS2 HAS IS 3RD PARTY TITLES. Stop eating paint chips.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Yes I can. Because that means more quality titles you can't get on any other console. You are acting so stupid I can't believe I'm spelling it out this bluntly. Everyone else is getting it. You can port 3rd Party titles to ANY SYSTEM. Gamecube, X-Box, PS2. Why play them on a PS2 when I can get them on the X-Box which also has GREAT 1st Party games?

Just because Nintendo can make their own games doesn't make it the better console (and don't swing your handbag yet Raz, here is the punchline). Nintendo is not always synomonous with quality. And since people are using this term '2nd party' which currently means 'games which are not made by the console developer but are only available for that console', I'll use it here: The PS2 has frigging excellent second party games. You can't port 2nd party games to any console because Sony own the rights to them. That is my argument.

Do you understand now? You're argument is idiotic because you equate 3rd Party to 1st Party just because all the PS2 has is third party. Which is wrong and borderline retarded.

Do you understand now? Your argument is idiotic because you equate Nintendo to quality just because you hate Sony. Which is wrong and actually retarded.

And no, I don't equate 3rd Party to 1st Party, I am calling your original argument crap because it was based on the fact that the Gamecube would be the better console if it had games and PS2 had no games whatsoever.

Like I said above, PS2 would still have it's second party games.

Ah, someone did get it.

[PNT510]

PS2 has very few second party games.

[Razola]

Most of which go to either the PC or X-Box within a year.