AIM Roundtables

[Razola]

We're starting discussions on the new ASB this week on AIM chats. TML, a few choice people, and myself are trying to sort things out and come to agreements. I feel that you, the people, should be "in the know" about our discussions. So I'll be posting the main topics of each chat. I'd post the whole log, but they can really derail at times.

May 31st, 2004
Topics: Mostly Refs

Summary: One concern was that matches need to keep going. One suggestion was that, after a certain period of ref absent, a sub-ref was free to jump in and offer his or her services. While there was some argument about how a ref should ref the whole match (rather than a change halfway through), eventually it was decided that it should be up to the trainers. A "Ref DQ" time can be added to the match's rules if the trainers wish it. After the time limit is reached a sub-ref can fill in. This would be completely optional. If the trainers are willing to wait on a ref, so be it.

Ref's may have to list their style of reffing somewhere. Biased refs were discussed and perhaps the number of complaints about biases may go down if trainers knew what to expect.

The point system came up. Evolution may require points, and it was also discussed if a pokemon should particpate in the battle to evolve. This brings a problem with pokemon like Magikarp. In the end, harder-to-evolve pokemon may require fewer points. Also, evolution will likely not be "nerfed" that much since the absent of businesses will slow down evolving and catching by quite a bit.

Refs and testing was discussed. New refs may be evaluted for their first couple of matches (older refs going for a higher rank have always had their previous battles evaluted when considering promotion).

Ref rewards were discussed. Some felt that giving refs points or a free catch/evolve would make them too powerful compared to non-refs. Others felt that refs are vital to ASB and that a good reward is neccessary to get more refs signed up.

Other people who partook in this may add their own commentary or other issues I missed.

[Razola]

June 3rd, 2004
Topics: Starting off, Point System, Ref Rewards

Whenever a player wins a battle they earn 1 point for the number of pokemon used (ie, you get two point in a 2v2, three points for a 3v3, etc.). Currently the figures are three points to catch a pokemon and five to evolve one. These figures will most likely be tweaked as ASB progresses and we learn what's popular/powerful and what's not.

You start ASB off with one pokemon and six points. This means you can spend your points right away and have three starting pokemon, use five of your points to have one evolved pokemon, or just save the points for later. This new starting was liked due to the options it gave trainers early on.

Reffing is still under discussion. Paychecks may be a thing of the past as refs will get their pay via greater rewards in battle. Ranks may or may not exist solely for the purpose of finding out who's experienced (in other words, higher ranked refs would not get better pay than lower ranked ones). This may be as simple as "Official" and "Unofficial" refs, or we may have a simple three rank system like Rookie, Professional, and Master. Ranks would have a beaing on what matches you are able to ref. For example: Rookies would not be allowed to ref tournaments.

That's all for now.

[Heald]

June 3rd, 2004
Topics: Starting off, Point System, Ref Rewards

Whenever a player wins a battle they earn 1 point for the number of pokemon used (ie, you get two point in a 2v2, six points for a 3v3, etc.).

Eh? Surely 2 for 2v2 and 3 for 3v3 or 4 for 2v2 and 6 for 3v3?

[Andrew]

You start with 1 of your choice, basic pogey and 6 points.

You can spend 3 points catching a new pogey, or 6 for 2. Or spending 5 and evoing. You don't have to instantly do a 2 vs 2.

Also, there was discussion about giving a special reward to refs, points or a modified hidden power. However, this was conducted without the mods, yet in the same rooom, but has no confirmation.

[Razola]

Eh? Surely 2 for 2v2 and 3 for 3v3 or 4 for 2v2 and 6 for 3v3?

Yeah, I typed that when I first woke up today. It's fixed.

EDIT: That whole Hidden Power thing confused the bejeezus outta me. What's the point in giving a fire-type Hidden Power Fire? Most are going to at least have flamethrower or fire blast.

[Andrew]

Yeah, I typed that when I first woke up today. It's fixed.

EDIT: That whole Hidden Power thing confused the bejeezus outta me. What's the point in giving a fire-type Hidden Power Fire? Most are going to at least have flamethrower or fire blast.

Basically when you finish reffing you'd get a choice between points or teaching your pogey a Hp. Catch is, the type of hidden power is restricted by the types a pogey knows. So if you teach karp HP, it can only learn HP Normal, 'cause all of its moves are normal.

If you chose Arcanine, you can give it hp dragon cause it knows Dragon Rage.

So no hP electric caterpies. K

[Hikaru]

Needless to say, Raz, it didn't get unanimous support :coughs:

[Heald]

But you're an anomaly Hikaru, so you don't count

[The Muffin Man]

Why not its' type included? That way, Pokemon like Butterfree(who I don't think learns ANY Flying types) can still get HP Flying?

[Hikaru]

While it gets Gust Razor Wind and WW, among others, there are Pokemon who don't get any ranged attack of their type, especially bugs, darks and fightings, who would benefit immensely from Hidden Power. Allowing them to have any type that they already know an attack from will just be sorta silly... HP Water Pikachu? HP Dark Muk? :shrug:

[The Muffin Man]

While it gets Gust Razor Wind and WW, among others, there are Pokemon who don't get any ranged attack of their type, especially bugs, darks and fightings, who would benefit immensely from Hidden Power. Allowing them to have any type that they already know an attack from will just be sorta silly... HP Water Pikachu? HP Dark Muk? :shrug:

I forgot about Gust. But that's the only Flying type attack. I don't think Razor Wind or WW are Flying.

But yeah Pokemon like Umbreon who only learn Bite and Faint Attack. What about a projectile dark attack?

[The Blue Avenger]

Allowing them to have any type that they already know an attack from will just be sorta silly...:shrug:

Not necessarily- if a Pokemon had only one of a certain type of attack, say Butterfree and Flying, and the trainer wanted to use only Flying type attacks, then they could alternate HP and Gust without draining fatigue as much as repeating Gust would.

Of course, this stems from the assumption that fatigue is still treated the same way.

[Dark Dragonite]

As a soon to be returning TPM ASBer, I like the idea of no buisnesses, and no money.
At first, I thought the point system was a bad idea, but I like it from what I see is being considered, the only thing I didn't like was what I saw in other ASBs, where you have to use points to heal pokes, only cause if you lose all your matches, most likely your pokes are hurt, how would you heal them?
Ref biasness is an issue, but so is knowing how your ref refs, do some research before jumping into a fire, then yelling that you got burnt.
I don't like the idea of making a poke fight to be able to evolve, cause of magikarp, and the cocoon pokes.
I love the progress though, keep it up guys!!

[Razola]

I think by encouraging refs to broadcast their style to trainers that complaints of bias will go down.

Why? Because most people stick with a small group of refs. Perhaps their friends or just someone whom they have never had a problem with. Either way, they get use to this person's system and it gets to the point where the trainer's strategy takes the ref's style into consideration. When a new ref comes along, the trainer suddenly faces a totally foreign system. Their old tactics no longer working, they call bias.

[Hikaru]

Completely agree, Raz. Perhaps if there were no damage caps, and refs said what the average attack did or something along those lines, trainers would know how to adapt better to different refs.

[Heald]

Hmm. How about in order to avoid bias in reffings, the Head Referee should assign any free ref to a match. All refs should be assumed to be free unless they post themselves as absent in the Absence Tower and they are not currently reffing a match. The referee nor the battlers may not refuse the Head Referee's decision. If there are no free refs then the asking system will be put into place.

A bit complex but effective.

[Razola]

That sounds good in theory, but it is way too much work for the Head Ref. That and I don't like the whole idea of forcing refs upon people.

[Ditto Master]

No..a battler should always be able to choose his own referee. His opponent merely has to agree. At least in the system I have in mind, the head ref wouldn't be able to force anyone to do anything, because it would be a volunteer system. As I've said, there would be no paycheck..every ref, whether registered or not, would get the same prize for reffing battles (only fluctuating to account for the differently sized battles..just as for battlers).

[Hikaru]

This is idiotic. Weeks have gone by without any progress. Why don't we just let battles start and deal with points and stuff after that. Just let people pick 6 basic Pokemon (might I suggest the Beginner List from another ASB to at least get us started? Two "Roundtables" with 3 people every few weeks isn't going to solve anything. Someone's gonna have to just take the league by the balls and go with it -_-

[Ditto Master]

Nice try. We do need to have another meeting and soon, but we're definitely not going to institute a system of rules using your list..you'll just expect us to build onto it with your old ideas. I know you're sore that we're going in a different direction than you had hoped for, but it's what the majority desires. So, let's try to speed this process up a bit and set another meeting date..

[The_Missing_Link]

Sorry. I've been busy all week and haven't been able to get on AIM much. If people are on today after 3 EST, we can discuss stuff and finally get ASB going

[Hikaru]

Nice try. We do need to have another meeting and soon, but we're definitely not going to institute a system of rules using your list..you'll just expect us to build onto it with your old ideas. I know you're sore that we're going in a different direction than you had hoped for, but it's what the majority desires. So, let's try to speed this process up a bit and set another meeting date..

Well, it seems as though there's no other systems being put out, and you can always add more Pokemon to the availability list. I have my own league up and running for about a week now with about 30 or so trainers already, so I don't need to institute a system. However, I'd like to see this league up and running before I collect Social Security.

[The Muffin Man]

Well, it seems as though there's no other systems being put out, and you can always add more Pokemon to the availability list. I have my own league up and running for about a week now with about 30 or so trainers already, so I don't need to institute a system. However, I'd like to see this league up and running before I collect Social Security.

God, you're starting to sound like a broken record...

"Well, MY ASB is up and running for a week. And MY ASB has 30 trainers already and MY ASB has no real big problems and I really don't need to worry about this one. I just want it done."

[Hikaru]

That's pretty much the jist of it. I like having TPM ASB as a place to battle, and there are a lot of other people who do as well, and it sucks that the people "in charge" have no time allegedly to get things done, when most of the major stuff could have been dealt with in about a day, tops.

[Andrew]

/offtopic

Surely you should have a basic sign up thread at the moment.

Sheesh.

[Prodigy]

Who specifically are these "few choice people"?

[Syberia]

Whoever agrees with Raz.

[Charles Legend]

Ok, so let me get this strat we only start of with 1 Pok, and six points, sonds good to me.

btw are we going to be useing the moves all the games or is Fr/LG moves not inclouded?

~Ryu

[The_Missing_Link]

Ok, so let me get this strat we only start of with 1 Pok, and six points, sonds good to me.

btw are we going to be useing the moves all the games or is Fr/LG moves not inclouded?

~Ryu

Actually, we're now going to start off with 4 Pokemon and no points. You'll see soon enough though

And FR/LG moves are the same as the RS ones so yes, they are going to be allowed