Netbattle - A huge joke?[Serious discussion]

[The Muffin Man]

I'm very rarely in this forum nowadays. Mainly because RSBot just doesn't excite me anymore. The sweeper-days REALLY just killed any enthusiasm I had to battle. Netbattle, on the other hand, was ripe with both ends of the spectrum. Not just the best of the best. It had the less-than-amazing players, the average(where I put myself in GSC...) and the amazing. Netbattle used to be where I went when GSCs constant pasting of in-battle stupidity in the chat was getting annoying. Netbattle had little talk of battles, even in the battle window. The battle window had become reserved for mistakes made in gameplay, or light mid-battle banter.

But now...Look at what it has been reduced to! Constant pushed back releases(wasn't RS Netbattle coming out LONG before 9.what is it...5?), bugs galore(you'd think they'd have worked a BIT harder on finding bugs...), and absolutely no real enthusiasm to go out and make it the best they can. It's really gotten to the point where it seems the guys over at Netbattles programming team have really given up competing with RSBot, but just being happy when it's all done and out there. Hell, it's like they don't even care if it's COMPLETE! Just as long as something is out there! With all these fixes, bug fixes, etc., you'd think it'd be ready.
Guess again.

It really looks like they just want it DONE, not done right. So my question to all of you, including Masa:

Has Netbattle just become some big joke? Not just compared to RSBot, but in general. Do the programmers honestly dare call themselves "programmers"? Do they even EVER hope to do this as some sort of real job(Programming, not Pokemon Battle programs)? Perhaps they should get used to doing it right the FIRST time, only letting bugs that snuck by go, until they're found.

Discuss.

To the netbattle goers/programmers/etc....You should really be ashamed you're allowing such a shoddy program to go out there with your names on it...

[Vineon]

you are definitly exagerrating..

first of all, I know that MasamuneXGP is very implicated in NetBattle and work all the time on it.

Although it is funny to see how we keep finding bugs in every new version they make, its nothing close to as glitchfilled as it used to be.

Im quite pleased with NB 9.0, it was a huge step forward from the previous version.

And yeah, even tho NB remains n00bville, that doesnt make it in itself a bad battling program.

[red13n]

Because of NetBattles attempt to call a non-existant RBY mode RBY mode way back whenever that was, it will always be a joke in my mind. Not to mention it will never be anything but the storage facility for the worlds biggest newbies.


Anyways: RBYBot > GSBot, RSBot and Netbattle.

[Brain]

Originally posted by Vineon
first of all, I know that MasamuneXGP is very implicated in NetBattle and work all the time on it.

I don't know if I should laugh or cry.

[titandude21]

NB's downfall came on 8/1/03, when mana's server went down. it has never recovered since.

The NBers are probably working hard on NB advanced, but the size of NB compared to the bots is probably slowing them down.

NB > the bots for the battling aspect due to it being much simpler to operate and easier to learn, but NB has been swamped with n00bs and 00bers now that there is no 00ber rule being enforced. there are also lots of clausewhores in NB.

i'm splitting my battling time between NB and RSbot... GSC stall wars just get pointless after a while, but UU battles are fun, esp. in gsc

[Syberia]

Most of the good battlers started on the bots way back when, got used to them, and there they will stay.

[Mana Lugia]

Originally posted by The Muffin Man
But now...Look at what it has been reduced to! Constant pushed back releases(wasn't RS Netbattle coming out LONG before 9.what is it...5?), bugs galore(you'd think they'd have worked a BIT harder on finding bugs...), and absolutely no real enthusiasm to go out and make it the best they can. It's really gotten to the point where it seems the guys over at Netbattles programming team have really given up competing with RSBot, but just being happy when it's all done and out there. Hell, it's like they don't even care if it's COMPLETE! Just as long as something is out there! With all these fixes, bug fixes, etc., you'd think it'd be ready.
Guess again.

It really looks like they just want it DONE, not done right. So my question to all of you, including Masa:


To the netbattle goers/programmers/etc....You should really be ashamed you're allowing such a shoddy program to go out there with your names on it...

First off, NBadvanced was NEVER scheduled to release before 0.9 was released. 0.9.1 was scheduled to be the last GSC release (which obviously, because of people like you who only laugh at the bugs and not report them, means there'd be another release for GSC bugfixes). RBY mode's bugs are at a minimum, I think I've only seen 2 so far. Challenge cup is in, look at what you can do on Masa's server. That, my friend, is NOT a 1 day effort. Aside from balancing Work (Ian does work, he's not a lifeless loser like us), School (Masa does go to school. He DOES have homwork. He DOES need marks to get in university), having a life (Just because we don't have a life doesnt' mean the programmers don't), and Netbattle is somewhat difficult.

NBAdvanced is well underway. They just don't want to release it until it's done because you guys would bash it badly again, like you do everything.

If you do think that you can do the same job in less, feel free to message Ian and tell him to fire Masa and hire you so you can prove to everyone that Netbattle does indeed lack good programmers. If you can't do the job, then how do you know it's easy? (Same as in a vote. If you don't vote <when you are able to>, stfu, you have no right to complain about the government)

Shoddy program? I think not. First off, the design is eye candy in itself. Now if you're Arti64, I can understand because he's making Pokemon Competitor. But what are you? You're a bystander who hasn't done anything towards helping the online community. You're like the rest of us. You're the ones who wait eagerly for someone to finish a program just so you can bash it for being bugged. You're the ones who only use your mouths as weapons. Nothing productive at all.

If you do think NB is a shoddy program AND you can do a better job, feel free. Note how no one is stopping you from making "Muffin Man Online pokemon Bot" before you made this post. But alas, I do not see such a program attached to this fine post. Is it not odd? I find it amusingly ironic.

Yes, NB has bugs. Yes, NB has been around for a while. But guess what? All the bug fixes that are reported are fixed by the next version. What does that mean? That the programmers are lazy? No, it means people like YOU and ME aren't doing OUR jobs of spotting bugs. Or, if you do, you're not reporting it. If hindering the progress of NB the fault of the creators? Does an NHL player who gets tripped get a penalty, or is it the person who trips him? Is it the victim of a robbery charged or is the crimminal? It's the same thing here.

Word of Advice to people: Sitting around and talking won't make the world better. If you want something to happen, MAKE IT HAPPEN

Next off, you say that

Has Netbattle just become some big joke? Not just compared to RSBot, but in general. Do the programmers honestly dare call themselves "programmers"? Do they even EVER hope to do this as some sort of real job(Programming, not Pokemon Battle programs)? Perhaps they should get used to doing it right the FIRST time, only letting bugs that snuck by go, until they're found.

Doing things right the first time round, can you? Is anything done right the first time round? Why is there a windows 98SE when Windows 98 is out? Why is there XP when there's ME? Why is there Trillian 2.0 when there's 1.0? Why are there patches for a majority of the games out there? (Command and conquer games, Counter strike, etc.) Why are there glitches in games that you buy that everyone knows about but no one fixes? Have you personally ever used a program that is perfect (of NB's size, of course. I'm not talking about a 5kb popup blocker) on its first release? Your question is implying: Why aren't the programmers perfect? My reply is: because humans aren't perfect. Humans make mistakes. Deal with it. Humans fix their mistakes. Oh wait, Masa/Ian do fix NB. I remember NB when it was 0.8.38, when it crashed my computer (turned out it might have been my shoddy Win98 too). But wait, it's not 0.838 now! It's 0.92! That means they HAVE been fixing mistakes. Have you ever seen game testing as well? When companies make games, they enlist people to TEST their games for DAYS, MONTHS, playing the same level OVER AND OVER to find bugs. Have you done that for NB recently? NB is, as Ian keeps saying (yes, it gets old), still unfinished, shown by the 0.92 instead of 1.0. Technically, we're all beta testers here. But hey, here we find a beta tester who, instead of testing and reporting bugs that he finds, goes somewhere and complains about how it sucks because he found bugs that he didn't bother reporting.

Irony? Perhaps
Stupidity? Definately.

So Muffin Man, I expect to see from you an Online battling program that has RS fully programmed, functioning, bugless before, say... the end of the year? You sound perfectly capable of doing such a thing from your post. Oh, and don't bother releasing betas for others to test. You can get it right the first time because you're way better than the NB programmers.

[MasamuneXGP]

You know Muffin Man, the LEAST you could have done is IM me right after posting this. Having the stuff sit here and ripen for 3 days now without me having seen it is a tragedy. So, let me give MY word on it, seeing as I'm the one doing most of the coding nowadays. *cracks knuckles* Here comes another of MasamuneXGP's trademark uberlong counterposts!

Your first paragraph good, so I'll start the quotes with the second.

The Muffin Man wrote:
But now...Look at what it has been reduced to! Constant pushed back releases

An interesting statement, considering that it's our policy to NEVER give a release date in the first place. Why? Because of statements like that one. It's done when it's done, we're coding as fast as we can.

(wasn't RS Netbattle coming out LONG before 9.what is it...5?),

Hmm, someone hasn't been reading the forums. Let me give you the lowdown. Originally, 0.9.0 was supposed to be the advance release. However, when we saw the amount of work that still needed to be done on GSC, (bug fixes, necessary new features, security holes, etc), we decided to break it up and release earlier due to the massive problems with 0.8.45. 0.9.1 and 0.9.2 were tiny releases to fix specific bugs that just got missed when testing. 0.9.3, .4, and .5... do not exist yet idiot. -_-

bugs galore(you'd think they'd have worked a BIT harder on finding bugs...)

You know, we've got this whole category called "Bug Reports" on our forums devoted for that purpose. Imagine that! However, I don't recall a single report from anyone named "The Muffin Man"... Also, as Vinny so kindly pointed out, the few remaining bugs in 0.9.2 are small potatoes compared to the ultra b0rkage levels of the previous version. We've come quite a ways, but you might have missed that.

and absolutely no real enthusiasm to go out and make it the best they can.

That statement is SO wrong I don't even know where to go with it. If you think we're just going to leave NB the way it is forever (like GSbot was), you're painfully wrong. Yeah, okay, we're not releasing a new version every single day, but that's because we have lives! Granted, I pride myself as having the tiniest life possible, but I AM a senior in high school, and there is such a thing as homework. I can't program 24/7, so you'll just have to be patient.

It's really gotten to the point where it seems the guys over at Netbattles programming team have really given up competing with RSBot, but just being happy when it's all done and out there.

Ah, a very common misconception. Now. I want you and everyone else who thinks this to read my post very, very, very carefully: WE ARE NOT COMPETEING WITH RSBOT. We aren't, we don't intend to, and we never have been. Heck, Ian started NetBattle before he even knew GSbot existed! The deal is, they've been around for nearly twice as long as we have. When Ruby/Sapp was released, their GSC mode was already perfect, so Fanha jumped on it right away. Us, we were still working on our GSC mode. We knew from the start that there was absolutely no possible way that we could get our Ruby/Sapp version out before theirs because we still had bugs to work out with our existing system! I'll say it again: We're not competing with them. As you said, we're just being happy when it's all done and out there.

Hell, it's like they don't even care if it's COMPLETE! Just as long as something is out there! With all these fixes, bug fixes, etc., you'd think it'd be ready. Guess again.

Don't care you say? I beg to differ. As pathetic as it may be, programming NetBattle is my LIFE. Every day I strive to make it a better program, and I don't appreciate people like you who take it at face value, see a few minor bugs, and assume the whole program is trash. Our GSC mode IS ready. Most of the bugs discovered are either with RBY Mode or are so minor that they couldn't possibly have a constant impact on the battling community. That doesn't mean we'll just leave them their, of course they will be fixed. But right now, programming NetBattle Ruby/Sapp takes priority over teensy tiny GSC bugs.

It really looks like they just want it DONE, not done right. So my question to all of you, including Masa:
Has Netbattle just become some big joke? Not just compared to RSBot, but in general. Do the programmers honestly dare call themselves "programmers"? Do they even EVER hope to do this as some sort of real job(Programming, not Pokemon Battle programs)? Perhaps they should get used to doing it right the FIRST time, only letting bugs that snuck by go, until they're found.

I think Mana covered this point nicely. NO program is perfect the first time around. There will always be patches, fixes, new versions, etc. for all programs. However, what you're saying is that we're just letting them sit there forever and not giving a damn. Ignorant fool.

red13n wrote:
Because of NetBattles attempt to call a non-existant RBY mode RBY mode way back whenever that was, it will always be a joke in my mind.

I admit, that wasn't too smart, but we've come a long way since then. Our RBY Mode is now a ton more true to the carts than it used to be.

In response to "first of all, I know that MasamuneXGP is very implicated in NetBattle and work all the time on it," BrainStorm wrote:
I don't know if I should laugh or cry.

It's posts like this that just make me crack a smile. You can practically see the guy's face as he types this. "Psh, that's a good joke. Yeah right, like Masa works that much on it. Look here, I know Masa, he doesn't work on it that much. All he does is dance and ice cream all day long." Oh, I bow before you great BrainStorm-sama. I couldn't possibly know as much about ME as you do... Idiot. Let me clue you on something. Every waking moment I can, I'm programming. I wake up in the morning and instantly jump to my computer chair until I'm called away and forced to start school. As I said before, programming is my life. If you people choose to believe that I'm some slacker who types two keys and then takes a break, fine. Just don't contaminate the rest of the internet with your lies.

titandude21 wrote:
NB's downfall came on 8/1/03, when mana's server went down. it has never recovered since.

Downfall you say. Never recovered you say. Hmm, guess someone should tell that to the 50+ people that are on my server as I type this. And to the 70+ people on all servers combined. I asked Mana, and the highest amount of players he ever saw at once on his server was 40.

The NBers are probably working hard on NB advanced, but the size of NB compared to the bots is probably slowing them down.

We're beating them populationwise. #RSArena, as I type this, has 59 people, and as I said, NB currently has over 70. Granted most of those are n00bs, the numbers are still pretty sweet to look at. If anything, they're speeding me up.

In closing, I'd like to say the to me, NetBattle is the farthest thing from "a joke" there is. Ian and I will continue to make NetBattle the best it can be, starting with Ruby/Sapp. We do not put down or claim to be better than RSbot in any way. After NetBattle Ruby/Sapp is released, we'll let the public decide which is better.

--MasamuneXGP

[titandude21]

the # of people on your server is higher than the # that were on Mana's server, but the # of trainers with some skill? i do understand that some of the newbies are just starting out and still learning and such, but after taking the newbies out, the # of people left would not be the same as it was before.

[Brain]

Not only did you take my joke seriously, but you didn't even get it

wtf

I have to agree that this thread stinks though.

[MasamuneXGP]

Hey, sorry dude, I was slightly pissed when I wrote that.

[Sir Chris]

I have been to netbattle recently, while I don't consider them to be on par with my skills(just because I have tons of experience) I am now 12-0 on nb with one of my teams, and I foguth around 4 or 5 decent to good battlers, so it may be newbsville, but I shall give them credit, they are learning

As well, I like the gsbots better just because I am more used to them, I still make errors like missing a par on netbattle, because of my own lack of experience with it.

this topic does suck, even if I don't think netbattle is the greatest thing in the world

~ Chris

[J Man Cool]

masa, if you can fix it to where it'll actually work on my windows xp, i'll love you forever.

Also, the only thing i don't like about it (since it was fixed) was the team ratings, at which my hoboteam was rated around in the 60's-70's.

That made me laugh.

Other than that, i find it pretty cool that you guys still care about gsc and are trying to actually trying to make it better, even after the metagame sorta died.


also, strawberry ice cream is sexy.

[MasamuneXGP]

1. IM me when you're free and I'll see what I can do to fix your problem.

2. The power rating isn't a measure of how GOOD your team is, that's something that computers can't really calculate. It's just a measure of how high the stats of the pokes are. So technically it's better to win with a team with a LOWER power rating to show off your skillfulness.

3. Azumanga Daioh makes me laugh.

4. The metagame didn't die, it just went home >=[

5. Mint Chocolate Chip with strawberry sause is sexier.

[J Man Cool]

well you got me there on the ice cream.

[TurdFerguson]

2. The power rating isn't a measure of how GOOD your team is, that's something that computers can't really calculate. It's just a measure of how high the stats of the pokes are. So technically it's better to win with a team with a LOWER power rating to show off your skillfulness.

That's funny... my standard team is 69%, whereas my severely UU team (which is use primarily) is 72%. I'm not sure that's working too well. This is for an RBY team btw.

But all in all, I like NB for the RBY mode a lot, haven't tried for GSC. Fast, pretty accurate, and actually an attractive interface in a battle simulator.

[Mana Lugia]

The power rating was implemented in the GSC development, and hence standard pokemon like Tauros in RBY isn't half standard in GSC, at least, not iirc. Similarly, Persian wouldn't add to o much to your power either

[GotMiltank]

wow...

I am so freakin' lost. Boo to rsbot! boo to netbattle if they will incorporate the evilness that is ruby/sapphire! BOO EVERYONE!!

Debate winnar is me.

[TheHornyBug]

gj GM. You really won the debate there.

[Leon-IH]

Netbattle is actually not bad.. the thing that it has on GSbots is that its easier to use.. i honestly cant be ****ed making more than a couple of sets of pogeys on the bots cause it takes forever (especially in rs).

btw chris what name were you using on nb?

[Y2Jesus]

arti stopped on competitor

"Why is there XP when there's ME?"
because ME is a piece of crap

[Green_Pikachu]

yo, i heard elton john is gay. what's up with that?

( haha, beat that GM ;/ )

[red13n]

NetBattle RBY mode is not teh win. That is all.

[GotMiltank]

Originally posted by ThePariah
yo, i heard elton john is gay. what's up with that?

SINCE WHEN?!?!

I can't think of anything witty, but I still declare myself the winnar.

[Mana Lugia]

Originally posted by red13n
NetBattle RBY mode is not teh win. That is all.

It would be very helpful (not meant sarcastically), if you could point out some of the errors of NB's RBY mode so that it can be fixed for the next release.

On a plus side, if you've seen RBY mode before last release, you'd realize that this version's RBY mode is so much more teh win than last.

[J Man Cool]

that isn't saying much

[BuKkAKe_BrYaN]

I'll take on ANYONE, ANYDAY, BRING IT SUCKERS!!!! )))
Wait, what the hell is pokemon

[The Muffin Man]

Originally posted by GotMiltank
wow...

I am so freakin' lost. Boo to rsbot! boo to netbattle if they will incorporate the evilness that is ruby/sapphire! BOO EVERYONE!!

Debate winnar is me.

I concede. GM wins the thread.

[Gligar_Man]

lateness perhaps

i tend to think of netbattlers as people who are satisfied being good compared to worse, or average in that environment...

[GTM]

Netbattle is a joke. I don't see why any decent player would use it and connect to one of it's crappy servers just to battle some idiot.
The RSbots are the way to go. Most of the players using RSbot have some sort of skill, only a small percent suck.

[MasamuneXGP]

The point of this thread was not the quality of the user base. That's something I can't control. The point is that the actual NetBattle software is a superior battling program. Also, if you don't like the users on the more populated servers, there's another feature in NB that RSbot lacks: ability to make and host your own server. And password it if you wish.

Also, don't give me that crap about 99.9% of RSbot's users being super-players. RSbot has its share of nubs as well.

[Dark_Alakazam]

Back when I used to pay Netbattle I thought it was pretty good. It had its share of bugs, but so does every other free program and it didn't bother me to the least. Mana Lugia and I had quite a spat over a certain arguement at one point (heh...) but in all I had fun battling online instead of agaisnt a PC-controlled noob for once.

I would play it again today, but considering mana's server is gone I don't even want to try. All the noobs that use uber pokemon like mewtwo just make me want to vomit. The program will die because of people like that unfortunately. Maybe someone here wants to make a server with some decent rules against ubers? Just a thought....its better to act then to complain.

Oh well....I guess we all eagerly await Pokemon Online which will cost us $30 a month to play.....obviously some of the people here want to play that more than a free version.




PS: Muffin_Man.....weren't we starting up a clan for netbattle at one point? Why did you want to join me if you hated this program so?

PPS: Correct me if i am seriously wrong....but aren't the RS and GSC bots IRC based? Yuck....

[PokeBoy]

Net battle is better than the Bot (Thats what I think) because it is more graphical and it is like what u see on the Game Boy.

[J Man Cool]

wow...

I am so freakin' lost. Boo to rsbot! boo to netbattle if they will incorporate the evilness that is ruby/sapphire! BOO EVERYONE!!

Debate winnar is me.

i'm hopping in.

rby4life

[Shadowgengar]

Thats where you're wrong...

If you'd actually care to go to the forums and try out v.0.9.2H than you'd actually find theres a RBY, G/S/C and R/S/LG/FR modes and servers and can be switched around...

To be honest I find the current version of Netbattle far superior to RSbot I've seen near no bugs yet...

On the other hand the ammount of 00ber users is great, but thats the reason for power ranks. 00bers will almost always send team pwr ratings over 60% which I find very helpful in refusing 00ber users challenges.


In short.....

A debate winner is me n_n

[Mr.E]

In RBY terms, NetBattle is still pretty glitchy anyway. In GSCRS terms, it probably is a superior program by now but the skill level of most NBers still blow. ;(

[Ultimate Pikachu]

While I was battling on Netbattle, someone had a Jolteon with Substitute and everytime the Substitute faded, 1/4 HP was not taken away. Also I can't see my logs and replays.

[Vineon]

While I was battling on Netbattle, someone had a Jolteon with Substitute and everytime the Substitute faded, 1/4 HP was not taken away. Also I can't see my logs and replays.

perhaps you already were below 1/4 HPs, in which case substitute does nothing.

[Ultimate Pikachu]

perhaps you already were below 1/4 HPs, in which case substitute does nothing.

The Jolteon had full HP and I saw the Substitute sprite. After it faded, It still had full HP.

[Soneko]

The Jolteon had full HP and I saw the Substitute sprite. After it faded, It still had full HP.

The way subsitute works is by taking 1/4 HP the turn it makes a subsitute. By the time you killed the sub, it could have healed with lefties or something.