Hey, Jouto wasn't THAT bad...

[Dogasu]

The Jouto Saga is generally met with a lot of hatred. Many people see it as three seasons' worth of crappy, terrible episodes, and is regarded as the series' low point. It seems that the word Jouto is almost a curse word around the Pokemon Community these days, and a great number of fans consider it to be the epitome of bad animation.

However, this thread isn't about the bad parts of Jouto. What I want to do is see what people think was good about the seasons. Here's my list:

-The seasons had some of the best music. The background music created for the league was some of the catchiest of the series (my favorite is the piece that includes an instrumental of OK!), and the opening and ending themes of the seasons were some of my favorite of the series. OK! was awesome, and Whiteberry's remix of the original Mezase Pokemon Master was a favorite of mine as well. On the dub side, the theme song to "Johto Journeys" remains, to this day, my favorite dub opening theme.

-The introduction of Sonansu. The little guy still makes me laugh after all these years. I also really liked Waninoko a lot.

-The movies released during the Jouto saga were great. While I'm not such a fan of the Serebii one, I did enjoy the Entei and Latios / Latias movies immensely.

-The Jouto saga was actually Takeshi's most productive, as he caught / released / watched a good deal of his pokemon evolve than in any other saga.

-The Jouto saga introduced the two-part Gym Leader battles. Before, it was custom to arrive in the city of a Gym Leader, get to know him/her, and then battle him/her, all in the space of one episode. However, beginning with the third Gym Leader in Jouto, these important characters were showcased in two episodes--one episode to introduce them, and another to have the actual battle. We never would have seen, say, the characterization that Yanagi (Pryce) got if his appearance was condensed down to just one episode, that's for sure.

-The saga did have some good fillers--"Forest Grumps," "The Wayward Wobbuffet," and "Address Unown," just to name a few.

-The switch from traditional cel animation to computer animation made around the time of "Here's Lookin' At You, Elekid." The much-needed boost in animation budget finally made the show look like it was made within the last decade.

-While the final league itself was problematic, the battles in the Silver Conference (mainly Satoshi vs. Shigeru and Satoshi vs. Hazuki) were excellent.

So, what else was good about the season? Please post your praises about the saga here, and leave the bashing to the other nine million Jouto-bashing threads that are out there.

[Water Pokemon Master]

Yeah but a lot of the episodes were still boring enough to make you frustrated.

[Dogasu]

Doesn't matter. This is a thread to talk about the good parts of the seasons, not the bad parts.

[Orion]

Dogasu, you're right. You've just said all the good parts of the Johto Saga. The thing I liked the most was the focus on the GYM Leaders. For they're amongst my favorite characters of the games, Anime and everything. It was great to see Johto focusing A LOT in them for the very first time. Who can forget Whitney's funny behavior? Morty's knowledge? Jasmine's toughness? (Even though I preferred her timid attitude in the game...) Pryce's backstory? (That alone made him a good Leader in my eyes, after I hated him for how he was in GSC.) Clair's power and Dragon relationship? That was my favorite part of Johto, hands down.

I also liked the Whirl Islands story arc. It was almost filler-less (It had ANOTHER Pidgey filler, but at least an interesting one compared with the mailing Pidgey one...), the Battles in the League were great, and we saw at the very least a bit of Misty's character. A character that was lost ever since she got hold of Togepi went a lot more noticeable in the Whirl Islands. I liked how she went in love with Corsola, and how she eventually caught one. The Tournament was another way of furthering Misty's dream... too bad the damage was done already. Oh! And the Lugia trilogy was OK, despite the bad critics it tends to receive. It was interesting to see a baby Legendary, and the fact that there are more than one of each Legendary Pokémon (Or so it seems.).

I also loved the Johto Tournament a lot! It was well-arranged, and had awesome battles. Unlike the Indigo Tournament, that was COMPLETELY ruined by Charizard's laziness, we finally happened to see AWESOME battles in the Silver Conference. We got to know Gary's starter, met the Gary character a lot more, and how he improved within the years after his disastrous defeat at the Indigo League. Also, it was a scoop-up of things to come. People say it was rushed, but it almost made up for the whole season IMO.

Another of the memorable things of Johto were the Red Gyarados chapters and the introduction of Lance. I still laugh when Wobbuffet comes out, and the Wynaut chapter was really funny! Psyduck kinda lost steam since Orange League (Its spotlight was in Kanto, even though it has to do also with the loss of Misty's character...), and it was great to have another of those annoying Pokémon back. They're really funny.

I liked most of the fillers too. The only ones I found boring were the Second Season ones (For the most part. Some were good.). The Johto Journeys and the last Season were good, at least for me. Still, the massive amount of fillers was the Saga's downfall, and the retire of many people from watching the Anime. Maybe it has to do with the fact that Team Rocket went REALLY funny, at least in the Mexican dub. They still make me laugh to this day, and they always brightened every chapter, however boring it was. It WAS repetitive, but fun is great to repeat.

So, Johto had MANY good things after all. I'm with you on this, Dogasu. I like people that can see through the bad things, and find the good stuff. Way to go!

[The Muffin Man]

I hated the 9,000 episodes we got for Pryce alone...that was just so boring. And then they spent an entire episode of essentially Pikachu bouncing around and Thundershocking Piloswine. Wow. Intense.

Johto was increasingly terrible because he had ONE evolved Pokemon(aside from Noctowl, of course) which was just a boring one at that. Bayleef annoyed me. The "Pouncing on Ash" thing got tired really fast...as did Totodile dancing...and Cyndaquils high-pitched voice...it just bothered me.

On top of all this, they were going so well with the Red Gyarados and Lance, then Lance comes in and goes all "After school special" on us. "Ooh noes! Don't fight! Gyarados should be hugging and kissing and being a sweetheart to EVERYONE!"
It's GYARADOS. It's called the Atrocious Pokemon. It's Dex Entry says it appears, rips a town apart, and goes on its' way. I am sick of the Elite 4 being portrayed as powerful in battle, but absolutely pathetic in actual wild Pokemon. What, Pokemon should only be treated with respect if you want them to think humans aren't all bad? I don't recall Brock babying Zubat. Or Ash getting all nice and sweet with Krabby, Pidgeotto, Caterpie, Muk, or Bulbasaur accepting his kindness. All of them were weakened and captured. Not "ZOMG HUGS 4 ALL". It got really insulting. Of course, anyone watching will notice that the Pokemon he doesn't weaken and capture seemed to be weak or something happened along the lines(i.e Caterpie became Butterfree, one of his best. Primeape respected him, Muk, Tauros, and Kingler are 3 of his best, and Bulbasaur was his best grass-type despite being basic. Cyndaquil routinely lost, Bayleef was nothing more than a portable winch, Totodile danced and got his ass kicked, Charizard disobeyed for a good deal of the Johto League and since after Koga for the Kanto league).

[Zak]

I hated the 9,000 episodes we got for Pryce alone...that was just so boring. And then they spent an entire episode of essentially Pikachu bouncing around and Thundershocking Piloswine. Wow. Intense.


~Not sure what you mean by the 9000 even with hyperbole, I mean I'd understand if it was Clair... wait, oh yeah, forgot about him being in the RG thing.

Johto was increasingly terrible because he had ONE evolved Pokemon(aside from Noctowl, of course) which was just a boring one at that. Bayleef annoyed me. The "Pouncing on Ash" thing got tired really fast...as did Totodile dancing...and Cyndaquils high-pitched voice...it just bothered me.

~Agreed, but I think it was pretty much because both Brock and Misty went very high with evolved Pokemon, three of which evolved all the way. Niether of them had any evolutions occur in Kanto or Orange (Well, Misty HAD Starmie from the start). I was kind of disappointed, seeing as some of the main characters' Pokemon have "gimmicks" like Charizard being stubborn, Bulbasaur and Squirtle being best friends, Squirtle trying to act tough, Heracross's... ahem, thing.. with Bulba and trees and Grass types, et al. I was hoping Totodile would keep that act in "Love, Totodile Style" as a gimmick kinda like Brock, but with Pokemon. I was disappointed it was with dancing. The only other time I could have really appriciated Totodile was when after getting its ass kicked by Sneasel at that Shrine thing, it later on mocked it and beat it in the battle with Harrison at the league.

On top of all this, they were going so well with the Red Gyarados and Lance, then Lance comes in and goes all "After school special" on us. "Ooh noes! Don't fight! Gyarados should be hugging and kissing and being a sweetheart to EVERYONE!"
It's GYARADOS. It's called the Atrocious Pokemon. It's Dex Entry says it appears, rips a town apart, and goes on its' way. I am sick of the Elite 4 being portrayed as powerful in battle, but absolutely pathetic in actual wild Pokemon. What, Pokemon should only be treated with respect if you want them to think humans aren't all bad? I don't recall Brock babying Zubat. Or Ash getting all nice and sweet with Krabby, Pidgeotto, Caterpie, Muk, or Bulbasaur accepting his kindness. All of them were weakened and captured. Not "ZOMG HUGS 4 ALL". It got really insulting.

~True, but there's no such thing as a "bad" Pokemon, with the exception of Meowth. Although, I guess if they were gonna portray Lance as the "Pokemon G-Man" as well as some Elite Four trainer. But I think the point is to try and make them look "perfect". But... I don't remember Bruno nor Prima doing that. And yes, this was pretty pathetic.

Of course, anyone watching will notice that the Pokemon he doesn't weaken and capture seemed to be weak or something happened along the lines(i.e Caterpie became Butterfree, one of his best. Primeape respected him, Muk, Tauros, and Kingler are 3 of his best, and Bulbasaur was his best grass-type despite being basic. Cyndaquil routinely lost, Bayleef was nothing more than a portable winch, Totodile danced and got his ass kicked, Charizard disobeyed for a good deal of the Johto League and since after Koga for the Kanto league).

~I agree with the above, except since I always have something to nitpick about, I'm assuming you meant Orange in that last one.

~Zak

[The Muffin Man]

Yeah, Orange. I kinda blanked out that entire series, except for Charizard Chills. That one was an awesome episode. Not filler either. It was really cool to see Charizard remember all the times Ash cared for him as Charmander and all the times Ash has stuck by Charizard even though he was kind of a dick. I really liked it. Especially since Charizard is just bad-ass.

[Water Pokemon Master]

I loved the Orange Islands, even though a lot of people hated it. Back on the topic of Johto, the only parts I realy hated was towards the end (not the end). I thought a lot of the Johto eps were okay, but because the whole series was so huge, it just started to get boring towards the end.

"Lapras! Cold Beam!"

[Misty]

Orange Islands = best season ever. Anyone who disagrees is wrong. >:(

Johto Journeys was an absolute mess of a season. To this day I think they made Johto Journeys crap so they could get the bad episodes and Pokemon out of the way. This was by far the worst season for Pokemon, with only a few gems like Wired for Battle, the Falkner battle, and Psychic Sidekicks.

Johto League Champions was a beginning of the recovery, but it still had some crap to purge. Lots of fair-good eps.

Master Quest was a great season, in my personal opinion. The Larvitar saga was well-done and actually gave a new dimension to Ash's character(sad that he has no character at all now, but that's another topic). The Whirl Islands were great, and the league was of course good. Of course, it's no Indigo, but what could be?

[Dogasu]

Jesus Christ, people.

This is a thread to talk about the GOOD parts of Jouto. If you want to bash Jouto, do it in one of the other eight million threads in which the posters bitch about how bad a season it was and how it ruined the anime.

One more good thing about Jouto: If I'm not mistaken, Jouto contained the very first Sakaki Boss Fantasy segments (where the Rocket-Dan dream about how the Boss will be able to use the pokemon-of-the-day).

[Darkgel]

Team Rocket went REALLY funny, at least in the Mexican dub.

INDEED!

Those dubbers (Diana Perez, J.A. Macías and the guy who did Meowth) are really funny. Yet they become a little repetitive in Advanced, though...

And I don't like the fact that James IS portrayed flamboyantly.