Nintendo: Retro on board for N5, PSP will have ass kicked, name taken.

[The Muffin Man]

Link to the IGN Interview

Simply enough, an interview with Reggie. Apparently, Nintendo knows they can't gain ground in the handheld market, but expects that the PSP won't exactly cripple Nintendos strongest suite.

[Crazy]

Sony's handheld is awsome,but my god I am tired of people saying the DS is crap next to it. I own a DS and I like it a lot. They are two different systems with different tastes. Simple as that. You'd be amazed at how many PSP fans come onto a DS BOARD and flame it. Though the same could be said for the DS as well....Oh well I hope Nintendo does well.

[PNT510]

The more I hear about how innovative revolution is gonna be, the less I care. Games have been played basicly the same way since Atari, the only thing that changed is things go more complex with better technology. I don't wanna control my characters in some "exitciting" new way, I wanna control my characters in the Unreal 3.0 engine.

[Roy Karrde]

I dont see how any of this really effects the PSP all they really said about the DS was that it wouldn't be online instead it would be on "no line", which I would think would hurt the DS and help the PSP instead of it being the other way around. Anyway the new Pokemon game is great news for god knows how long I've been saying that they need a Pokemon RPG game on the N64/Game Cube. The problem is that I think this falls into the catgory of "Great Idea, Wrong Time". The reason being is that Nintendo has lost this generation, I know it's hard for people to accept but the game cube screwed up and Nintendo came in third. Pokemon XD will not change that, there is no way for Nintendo to come in second or first in this generation so why bring out a mega hit like Pokemon on a system that has no hope? Why not just wait and have it as a launch title for the Revolution? I mean Microsoft is bringing out Halo 2.5 for Xenon with Halo 3 not too far behind. Sony most likely will have GTA 4 for it's launch of the PS3. So why not bring out Nintendo's big franchise hit for the Revolution when it hit's store shelves? Anyway like I said, right idea, wrong time.

[The Muffin Man]

I dont see how any of this really effects the PSP all they really said about the DS was that it wouldn't be online instead it would be on "no line"

This is Nintendo. Kings of Double-talk. They say No-Line and don't mean "No Online" but something like "Wireless Online"

, which I would think would hurt the DS and help the PSP instead of it being the other way around. Anyway the new Pokemon game is great news for god knows how long I've been saying that they need a Pokemon RPG game on the N64/Game Cube. The problem is that I think this falls into the catgory of "Great Idea, Wrong Time". The reason being is that Nintendo has lost this generation, I know it's hard for people to accept but the game cube screwed up and Nintendo came in third.

Screwed up how? Not enough retarded bullshit fad games like GTA93: Generic City? Or not enough HALO HALO HALO HALO HALO HALO HALO plastered on everything everywhere for 6 months beforehand?

Pokemon XD will not change that, there is no way for Nintendo to come in second or first in this generation so why bring out a mega hit like Pokemon on a system that has no hope? Why not just wait and have it as a launch title for the Revolution? I mean Microsoft is bringing out Halo 2.5 for Xenon with Halo 3 not too far behind. Sony most likely will have GTA 4 for it's launch of the PS3. So why not bring out Nintendo's big franchise hit for the Revolution when it hit's store shelves? Anyway like I said, right idea, wrong time.

They ARE bringing Nintendos big franchise hit to the N5. Mario 128 is slated as a Revolution. On top of that, they've hinted at a new Metroid(Retro is the company that did Metroid Prime), Geist is coming up soon, and *RE4 is gonna leave PS2 owners with a bitter aftertaste with the dumbed down version. And anyone with an IQ over 25 will smell something wrong with Halo 2.5 and Halo 3 coming out so soon together. Sadly, Halo is aimed at those who don't have that huge number of an IQ. Not to say no one else buys it, but you can't deny "Retarded frat boys" wasn't a big selling point for them.

And Roy, not to sound rude, but you don't know a lot about business. From a bystander, it is a mistake to release a big franchise game when it's "too little too late". But it's actually not that bad an idea. RE4 and LoZ are pushing the Gamecube to its' graphical limit, and the Revolution is said to be as powerful as/more powerful than the Xenon("A more powerful processor is just the entry ticket").

Think about it, if a game shows off what Nintendo can do on this console, developers and gamers alike will be interested in what they're gonna be doing with their more powerful system.




*-RE4s port to the PS2 will, in fact, suck. There is no denying that a game built for the graphical engine of the Gamecube will be shot in the leg a few times to work on the PS2. On top of that, the controls won't work as well as they were all-but custom tailored to the GC. See VJ2. It was less crisp and sharp than the first one.

[Heald]

Screwed up how? Not enough retarded bullshit fad games like GTA93: Generic City? Or not enough HALO HALO HALO HALO HALO HALO HALO plastered on everything everywhere for 6 months beforehand?

Don't mix economics with either morals or opinions. It has been proven in the past: original games don't sell. That's why the latest dogshit from EA always sells and decent developers disappear. Believe it or not, publishers do better when their games sell. Games have to be fairly risk-free investments and originality scares off consumers like the plague. You may not like it that fad games or even decent games you don't like but happen to be on other consoles are selling, but they are, and that proves that the PS2 and XBox are doing something right.

RE4s port to the PS2 will, in fact, suck. There is no denying that a game built for the graphical engine of the Gamecube will be shot in the leg a few times to work on the PS2. On top of that, the controls won't work as well as they were all-but custom tailored to the GC. See VJ2. It was less crisp and sharp than the first one.

1) You overestimate the Gamecube and underestimate the PS2. Sure, the Gamecube has slightly better specs, but you seem to be saying that Gamecube games make PS2 games look like Pong.
2) You'd have to be pretty shallow to judge a game on graphics alone.
3) The controller switch won't make a difference (it never does).
4) Resident Evil is shit, period. All survival-horror 'OMG ZOMBIE POPPED OUTTA NOWHAR' games are. You won't find me rushing to get it. Plus, isn't it slightly hypocritical to say that the PS2 and Xbox rely on fad games but all the Nintendo magazines and all the Gamecube-owners I know are saying 'RE4 WILL BE BETTER THAN F*CKING JESUS'?

[The Muffin Man]

Don't mix economics with either morals or opinions. It has been proven in the past: original games don't sell. That's why the latest dogshit from EA always sells and decent developers disappear. Believe it or not, publishers do better when their games sell. Games have to be fairly risk-free investments and originality scares off consumers like the plague. You may not like it that fad games or even decent games you don't like but happen to be on other consoles are selling, but they are, and that proves that the PS2 and XBox are doing something right.

I know, I like to have faith that humanity will realize it eventually.

1) You overestimate the Gamecube and underestimate the PS2. Sure, the Gamecube has slightly better specs, but you seem to be saying that Gamecube games make PS2 games look like Pong.

No, but the graphics were geared to the Gamecube. Literally. Not because they were working with a more powerful system, they were actually made to look good on the Gamecube. Because the team was under the impression that's all that mattered was how it looked on the Cube.

2) You'd have to be pretty shallow to judge a game on graphics alone.

Control scheme, loading times, and framerates all contribute to the crotchshot. Less enemies on screen, less possible things coming at you, bigger fits of lag...Knowing Capcom, they'll compensate by making the enemies do double damage and soon have a horde of fanboys saying that the PS2 version is for "Real gamers who want a challenge."

3) The controller switch won't make a difference (it never does).

Control schemes gonna take a hit, unless they decide to leave the unused buttons worthless.

4) Resident Evil is shit, period. All survival-horror 'OMG ZOMBIE POPPED OUTTA NOWHAR' games are. You won't find me rushing to get it. Plus, isn't it slightly hypocritical to say that the PS2 and Xbox rely on fad games but all the Nintendo magazines and all the Gamecube-owners I know are saying 'RE4 WILL BE BETTER THAN F*CKING JESUS'?

But see, RE4 is actually really good. I've played GTA and Halo. Halos alright and GTA just sorta slows down after the 43rd "Go here, then here, get this car, and kill them, then destroy the car here" mission. I fucking hated Resident Evil 1 through Code Veronica XYZ to the power of Pi divided by monkey. And on the Gamecube they felt like a turd with a diamond stuck in it. RE4 honestly impressed me.

And I'm mainly bitter because the heads of Capcom essentially waited till RE4 was out on Cube to release the PS2 port, in turn stealing a lot of possible sales for fans of RE who did not own a Gamecube yet. It was a real cheap shot on Capcoms part.

[Razola]

Don't mix economics with either morals or opinions. It has been proven in the past: original games don't sell. That's why the latest dogshit from EA always sells and decent developers disappear. Believe it or not, publishers do better when their games sell. Games have to be fairly risk-free investments and originality scares off consumers like the plague. You may not like it that fad games or even decent games you don't like but happen to be on other consoles are selling, but they are, and that proves that the PS2 and XBox are doing something right.

I'd rather have a company make good games for a year than mediocre games for 10 years.

And it's already been confirmed that the PS2 RE4 is going to be suffering serious drawbacks. And the game is easily a candidate for best of 2005.

[The Muffin Man]

Raz, after reviewing the latest LoZ trailer, I think RE4 just got kicked in the testicles for "Game of the Year."

This thing will win every award. "Best Sports Game...Legend of Zelda? Oh well."

[Heald]

I'd rather have a company make good games for a year than mediocre games for 10 years.

That was my point: real gamers suffer because decent, original games are economically bad.

[Razola]

Raz, after reviewing the latest LoZ trailer, I think RE4 just got kicked in the testicles for "Game of the Year."

This thing will win every award. "Best Sports Game...Legend of Zelda? Oh well."

Depending on what Nintendo does with it. RE4 totally revamped the genre, whereas Nintendo may continue with the old "Do X dungeons, each one giving you a useful item. And then side quests."

Make no mistake, I will enjoy the new Zelda, should it follow this pattern. Very much so. But it takes more than putting an old formula with "mature" graphics to get game of the year.

I did just see the trailer though, and I hope they do a lot with mounted combat and try to keep the game less linear and more outdoors. Scenes in the forest felt really epic.

[Roy Karrde]

And Roy, not to sound rude, but you don't know a lot about business. From a bystander, it is a mistake to release a big franchise game when it's "too little too late". But it's actually not that bad an idea. RE4 and LoZ are pushing the Gamecube to its' graphical limit, and the Revolution is said to be as powerful as/more powerful than the Xenon("A more powerful processor is just the entry ticket").

Well I'm going to respond to this since it was directly aimed at me, it seems that every one else has gone off on TMM's points and I dont feel like I should rehash points that others are making for me. Anyway your right I do not know alot about business, I'm in college to go into Video Game design not to sell products. Yet TMM unless your in college or have graduated college with a degree in buisness then I am betting that you know just about as much about buisness as I do. Now saying that lets put things in perspective, Nintendo is dead last right now when it comes to the Game cube. The Revolution should be out by next year. A Pokemon game takes several years to make lets say oh 3 years between games. Now as everyone knows Pokemon saved Nintendo's asses back in the day. So looking at how well or how poorly Nintendo's other franchises have sold in the last few years and how none of them have pushed Gamecube into second place in sells, why would it be smart to release a Pokemon RPG something that Nintendo knows would sell like hot cakes right now? Are they worried that Pokemon's recent down hill slant in numbers when it comes to Leaf Green and Fire Red could be a omen that Pokemon is dieing?

Now as you said RE4 and LoZ are pushing the graphical boundries of the Gamecube. I have no doubt that Pokemon XD will meet those boundries. But and here comes a major but, RE4 did not sell as many game cubes as Nintendo was hoping for, it did not sell as many copies Capcom was hoping for and since Capcom is moving RE4 onto the Playstation 2 just reaffirms my point. As for LoZ it may sell well yet at the same time Xenon will be coming out meaning Microsoft will be making a huge ad push, and everyone will be looking at the next generation of consoles. Casual gamers most likely will look at LoZ and then look at Xenon and decide to go with Xenon instead of buying a game cube becuase lets face it no matter how nice Legend of Zelda looks, the Xenon will most likely out due it in graphics.

So what does Nintendo have left to sell? They have the new Pokemon game, now come next year Nintendo will be marketing the Revolution against the Playstation 3 and against the Xenon which will allready have a 1 year head start. Now what do you suggest Nintendo bring out for the Revolution and be their main marketed game instead of a Pokemon game * Aka the series that saved Nintendo *? You say they should use Mario 128 and a new Metroid game. Now as great as Metroid Prime is, it's sequil did not sell well this last year when it came to moving Gamecubes off the store shelves. As for Mario 128, well lets just say Super Mario Sunshine other wise known as Mario Water works left a bad taste in Gamecube player's mouths. Plus I doubt many gamecubers or by the time the revolution comes out they will be called revolutionist will trust Nintendo with another Mario game until they see some proof that Nintendo hasnt gone insane. Anyway my point in all of this is that bringing out a Pokemon game at this stage of the game does nothing for Nintendo except maybe slow the bleeding that the Xenon will do to it this christmas. So why doesnt Nintendo just go on and take it's medicine this christmas and get a beating from Microsoft, and turn around next year release the Revolution release a Pokemon game with it and have a console that does not have a lack luster launch like the Gamecube did. Besides I am more out to believe that the Revolution would allow for a Online Pokemon game then I am to believe that Gamecube will allow for a Online Pokemon game.

Also as a side note you said that Nintendo's Revolution will be the most powerful console on the market, just a few lines up you said that Nintendo is the king of double talk. So tell me this The Muffin Man, which is it, will Nintendo have the most powerful console on the market, or is it more double talk?

[Crazy]

Some of the points people made here makes sense. As painful as it is to say all people want is generic games with no creativity.MP2 should have sold better. I really don't understand why Nintendo has lost so many fans. They make good games,but no one buys them because of this "kiddie" BS.

[The Muffin Man]

Well I'm going to respond to this since it was directly aimed at me, it seems that every one else has gone off on TMM's points and I dont feel like I should rehash points that others are making for me. Anyway your right I do not know alot about business, I'm in college to go into Video Game design not to sell products. Yet TMM unless your in college or have graduated college with a degree in buisness then I am betting that you know just about as much about buisness as I do.

Why is anything between me and you eventually degraded into you declaring that if you can't be better, than I'm not either? Christ, I've been gaming all my life. I know what does and does not work for business. I've talked to countless people who are involved with business. I've taken only a few high school level business courses, but they've explained enough in the way of whetting the proverbial whistle. You show them something they want(pokemon, zelda) and they come back with the next product, hoping they get BETTER.

Now saying that lets put things in perspective, Nintendo is dead last right now when it comes to the Game cube.

Actually, they're 3rd. Dead Last would mean they're behind a long line of competitors. Third of 3 is not bad. On top of that, Nintendo and MS have strugged for the number 2 spot since the two have been on the market together. "Dead last" implies Nintendos screwed. Third implies the truth - They're simply the third place spot. Is a Bronze Medalist "a horrible failure"? No, They're THIRD.

The Revolution should be out by next year. A Pokemon game takes several years to make lets say oh 3 years between games. Now as everyone knows Pokemon saved Nintendo's asses back in the day.

HA.

So looking at how well or how poorly Nintendo's other franchises have sold

HA.

in the last few years and how none of them have pushed Gamecube into second place in sales, why would it be smart to release a Pokemon RPG something that Nintendo knows would sell like hot cakes right now? Are they worried that Pokemon's recent down hill slant in numbers when it comes to Leaf Green and Fire Red could be a omen that Pokemon is dieing?

Or, could it be, *Gasp* they're not abandoning the Gamecube because a new system came out? Nah, that's unheard of. I mean, I know as soon as the PS2 came out I never saw a new PS1 game. Ever. Nope. Definetly none.

Now as you said RE4 and LoZ are pushing the graphical boundries of the Gamecube. I have no doubt that Pokemon XD will meet those boundries. But and here comes a major but, RE4 did not sell as many game cubes as Nintendo was hoping for,

Hence why you ignored my post. Capcom announced the port almost immedietly after the release, essentially tossing Nintendo a product that could be bought without any extra sales that DON'T benefit Capcom. Also, it was done behind the RE4 development teams back.

it did not sell as many copies Capcom was hoping for and since Capcom is moving RE4 onto the Playstation 2 just reaffirms my point.

No, it reaffirms MY point you ignored my post. Like I said above, Capcom pulled an underhanded tactic that shot Nintendo in the foot.

As for LoZ it may sell well yet at the same time Xenon will be coming out meaning Microsoft will be making a huge ad push, and everyone will be looking at the next generation of consoles. Casual gamers most likely will look at LoZ and then look at Xenon and decide to go with Xenon instead of buying a game cube becuase lets face it no matter how nice Legend of Zelda looks, the Xenon will most likely out due it in graphics.

FF8 looks like a cats ass next to some of the better Dreamcast games.

Go find me a brand new DC hot off the factory line. Oh wait, Segas out of business(for consoles, that is). Looks like a big game from a big company pre-empting a big name isn't exacly impossible. Or unheard of.

So what does Nintendo have left to sell? They have the new Pokemon game, now come next year Nintendo will be marketing the Revolution against the Playstation 3 and against the Xenon which will allready have a 1 year head start. Now what do you suggest Nintendo bring out for the Revolution and be their main marketed game instead of a Pokemon game * Aka the series that saved Nintendo *?

You really like driving that in, don't you? Pokemon didn't save Nintendo. It simply saved the handheld market from being a bunch of stiff boring platform games. Furthermore, The PS2 had a 1 year head start and you're not damning the XBox, now are you?

You say they should use Mario 128 and a new Metroid game. Now as great as Metroid Prime is, it's sequel did not sell well this last year when it came to moving Gamecubes off the store shelves.

Yeah, that top contender for Game of the Year was just Nintendo paying people off.

As for Mario 128, well lets just say Super Mario Sunshine other wise known as Mario Water works left a bad taste in Gamecube player's mouths. Plus I doubt many gamecubers or by the time the revolution comes out they will be called revolutionist will trust Nintendo with another Mario game until they see some proof that Nintendo hasnt gone insane.

E3. Gameplay videos and a more solid frame of when Mario 128 will arrive and on what. On top of that, Mario Sunshine was a fantastic game and the secret levels without the waterpack were by far the best gaming experience many players have had in ages. Ask anyone who's actually PLAYED Sunshine after doubting it(Including me)..

Anyway my point in all of this is that bringing out a Pokemon game at this stage of the game does nothing for Nintendo except maybe slow the bleeding that the Xenon will do to it this christmas.

Once again, there will be bleeding. But I do believe an young elven man wearing a green tunic might be the one striking the blows this holiday season.

So why doesnt Nintendo just go on and take it's medicine this christmas and get a beating from Microsoft, and turn around next year release the Revolution release a Pokemon game with it and have a console that does not have a lack luster launch like the Gamecube did. Besides I am more out to believe that the Revolution would allow for a Online Pokemon game then I am to believe that Gamecube will allow for a Online Pokemon game.

You're really making it hard for me to remain as non-Fanboyish as possible. Have you ever seen the reaction to a Zelda game? Even Wind Waker was met with a pretty warm reception despite how cold it was received. This is what gamers wanted, and this is what we've been waiting for. Either you're one of the million "OLOL NINTENDO R DOOMED" who see a sale as "Too little, too late", of you've honestly not been gaming longer than Halo has been out.

Also as a side note you said that Nintendo's Revolution will be the most powerful console on the market, just a few lines up you said that Nintendo is the king of double talk. So tell me this The Muffin Man, which is it, will Nintendo have the most powerful console on the market, or is it more double talk?

"Double-talk" meaning Sleight of hand. Not lies. But yes, most powerful could mean processor, it could mean sound quality, etc.

You're really funny when you stake yourself into the opposite side just based on me. I suggest you stick to things you have a clue about, rather than just making a stance opposite me.

[Roy Karrde]

Why is anything between me and you eventually degraded into you declaring that if you can't be better, than I'm not either? Christ, I've been gaming all my life. I know what does and does not work for business. I've talked to countless people who are involved with business. I've taken only a few high school level business courses, but they've explained enough in the way of whetting the proverbial whistle. You show them something they want(pokemon, zelda) and they come back with the next product, hoping they get BETTER.

Now I do not know your school experiences just like I do not expect you to know mine. Now taking a few high school level business cources does put you ahead of myself I do admit becuase I never attended a high school business cource except for the required economics. Now I did give you the benifit of a doubt that you did know some stuff about the buisness industry, but at this moment I do believe your hatred for me and your loyalship to Nintendo is not allowing you to think rationally at the moment. Now yes what you said is true you show people what they want and they will come back for the next product hoping that it excells in the areas that they loved in the last product. That is why I believe that launching the Revolution with a Pokemon game will be a smart buisness move now, becuase like it or not current trends show that many of Nintendo's products have oversatuated the market. People just are not rushing to buy the newest Mario game or the newest Zelda game. In that respect you hope that those two franchises help push Nintendo come next year and this fall do you not? Well by your own logic that people come back for more then they shouldn't due to the fact that many hated the last Mario and Zelda game on a a major system.

Actually, they're 3rd. Dead Last would mean they're behind a long line of competitors. Third of 3 is not bad. On top of that, Nintendo and MS have strugged for the number 2 spot since the two have been on the market together. "Dead last" implies Nintendos screwed. Third implies the truth - They're simply the third place spot. Is a Bronze Medalist "a horrible failure"? No, They're THIRD.

You can frame it any which way you like but third still means dead last, it still means that Nintendo who used to be king of the market just ten years ago has fallen down the slippery slope of business. Now with Microsoft still selling over game cube in all markets except for Japan I have to believe that Nintendo is in a spot that they just cannot crawl out of in this generation's life span. Micorsoft and Nintendo's struggle for market share ended last year, now please tell me when it comes to third parties which company do you think they will choose? The third place system where logically they would sell less, or the second and first place system where logically they would sell more.

Or, could it be, *Gasp* they're not abandoning the Gamecube because a new system came out? Nah, that's unheard of. I mean, I know as soon as the PS2 came out I never saw a new PS1 game. Ever. Nope. Definetly none.

Actually according to IGN the last major PS1 game that came out for the system came out in 2003, exactly two years after the launch of the PS2. That game was Final Fantasy Origins. Now can you tell me how many Nintendo 64 games came out after the Game cube was released? Now you claim to know some about buisness which I do not doubt, but do you truely believe any business will continue to support a system while the public is off buying a newer version of that system? C'mon really I expect better than this, you know good and well that companies abandon their systems to make way for the new system, it's just a allocation of resources.

Hence why you ignored my post. Capcom announced the port almost immedietly after the release, essentially tossing Nintendo a product that could be bought without any extra sales that DON'T benefit Capcom. Also, it was done behind the RE4 development teams back.

Now I do admit I did not read all of your post, I had no want nor urge to fight with you on a plethora of other subjects that would extend my post three to five times longer than it allready is. As for the Capcom deal I really have no knowledge of it, I do know that Capcom is a company and just like any other company they wish to make money. So when they discovered that they had a hit on their hands they planned to market it to it's full extent. A common business tactic I might add.

No, it reaffirms MY point you ignored my post. Like I said above, Capcom pulled an underhanded tactic that shot Nintendo in the foot.

Capcom pulled a business tactic that any company would do when they have a hit on their hands. Instead of taking a smaller share of a game that took millions to make they decided to milk it for all of it's worth. If you expect companies to go to Nintendo and make good games then you should also expect them to send those good games off to other systems so that they could get the full extent of their money possible.

FF8 looks like a cats ass next to some of the better Dreamcast games.

Well it should it came out atleast a year before Dreamcast came out.

You really like driving that in, don't you? Pokemon didn't save Nintendo. It simply saved the handheld market from being a bunch of stiff boring platform games. Furthermore, The PS2 had a 1 year head start and you're not damning the XBox, now are you?

I'm not damning anything, but at the time of Pokemon, the N64 was having huge problems due to delays, at the same time PS1 was creaping up ever so closer to first place. Pokemon turned people's attention back to Nintendo.

Yeah, that top contender for Game of the Year was just Nintendo paying people off.

Hey Sharktale was nominated for Best Animated Film, does that mean it deserved the honors? By the way you do know what a filler spot is correct?

E3. Gameplay videos and a more solid frame of when Mario 128 will arrive and on what. On top of that, Mario Sunshine was a fantastic game and the secret levels without the waterpack were by far the best gaming experience many players have had in ages. Ask anyone who's actually PLAYED Sunshine after doubting it(Including me).

I cannot actually believe that you thought Mario Sunshine was a good game. Think about the Mario series before it, Mario 64, Super Mario World, Mario 3 for god sakes. Mario Sunshine was a horrible game and does not even hold a candle to it's previous games.

Once again, there will be bleeding. But I do believe an young elven man wearing a green tunic might be the one striking the blows this holiday season.

Then please tell me why Legend of Zelda Wind Waker did not bring Nintendo to the top of the heap? If the Zelda series is so strong then why didn't Wind Waker bring Nintendo into First Place, or atleast a strong second? You know why? Casual Gamers, the life blood of the industry, and Casual Gamers are attracted to two things, violence and good graphics. The Xenon delivers on one of the two things and when it comes down to either getting what is "Cool" and what has been out for 4 years. I bet you that they will choose "What is Cool".

You're really making it hard for me to remain as non-Fanboyish as possible. Have you ever seen the reaction to a Zelda game? Even Wind Waker was met with a pretty warm reception despite how cold it was received. This is what gamers wanted, and this is what we've been waiting for. Either you're one of the million "OLOL NINTENDO R DOOMED" who see a sale as "Too little, too late", of you've honestly not been gaming longer than Halo has been out.

Now I have tried to remain as non objective as possible in this, I gave you the benifit of the doubt on your history in buisness and the benifit of the doubt that you are a gamer. It is sad that you cannot give me the same respect. Now you say you have tried to remain as non fanboyish as possible, that right there is a out and out lie. Statements like Capcom STABED Nintendo in the back, is fan boyish. You claim to know alot about buisness which I hope and believe that you do, but so far you have shown almost no proof that you have any knowledge of the Gaming Industry, or Business in general.

"Double-talk" meaning Sleight of hand. Not lies. But yes, most powerful could mean processor, it could mean sound quality, etc..

Yes and it could mean Toy Story type graphics like what Sony said for the PS2, does that mean the PS2 had that type of graphics? There is a common phrase in any business industry for what Nintendo is doing, it's called hype and until real numbers for the Revolution comes out I'm going to remain skepticle as you should too.

You're really funny when you stake yourself into the opposite side just based on me. I suggest you stick to things you have a clue about, rather than just making a stance opposite me.

I didn't go into this just becuase of you although I am sure your ego will tell you differently. Right now I believe that Nintendo is shooting itself in the foot by not putting off the Pokemon XD release. Anyway I love Nintendo I really do I have all of their systems except for the DS and that is becuase I am going to New York in a few weeks. I just do not want to see Nintendo have another lack luster launch like it did with the Gamecube and like it did with the DS, it deserves better than that. We as gamers deserve beter than that.

[Misty]

Ooh, DRAMA.

[Roy Karrde]

Nah I just have a view that Nintendo could really clean up if they waited for Pokemon XD, that it would sell more as a launch title. The Muffin Man along with many other people do not share that view which I respect. Anyway maybe The Muffin Man is right and I am targeting him out of spite subcouncously, to tell the truth and I swear to god, that I went into this topic not even knowing it was him becuase of how little time I had at home between classes and work. Anyway you guys have my view and I hope that I have brought up some good reasons to reinforce it on why Nintendo should wait.

[The Muffin Man]

Now I do not know your school experiences just like I do not expect you to know mine. Now taking a few high school level business cources does put you ahead of myself I do admit becuase I never attended a high school business cource except for the required economics. Now I did give you the benifit of a doubt that you did know some stuff about the buisness industry, but at this moment I do believe your hatred for me and your loyalship to Nintendo is not allowing you to think rationally at the moment. Now yes what you said is true you show people what they want and they will come back for the next product hoping that it excells in the areas that they loved in the last product. That is why I believe that launching the Revolution with a Pokemon game will be a smart buisness move now, becuase like it or not current trends show that many of Nintendo's products have oversatuated the market. People just are not rushing to buy the newest Mario game or the newest Zelda game. In that respect you hope that those two franchises help push Nintendo come next year and this fall do you not? Well by your own logic that people come back for more then they shouldn't due to the fact that many hated the last Mario and Zelda game on a a major system.

The "Latest Zelda game" is a GBA game. GBA is generally a young/real gamer area. Marios latest non-gimmick game was DS. Once again, handhelds.

You can frame it any which way you like but third still means dead last,

Fine. Microsoft is barely hanging onto the market and Sony is a few sales away from being out of the market. But wait! They're number 2 and 1! Well, I'm just putting a negative spin to make it look like I have clue one about what I'm saying.

it still means that Nintendo who used to be king of the market just ten years ago has fallen down the slippery slope of business. Now with Microsoft still selling over game cube in all markets except for Japan I have to believe that Nintendo is in a spot that they just cannot crawl out of in this generation's life span. Micorsoft and Nintendo's struggle for market share ended last year, now please tell me when it comes to third parties which company do you think they will choose?

You mean the generally conglomorate Microsoft of the "Know-what-they're-doing" Nintendo. Tell me, which company did Square return to and Capcom never leave?

The third place system where logically they would sell less, or the second and first place system where logically they would sell more.

Actually, as far as most japanese companies are concerned, Nintendo is number 2. Oh wait, it IS as far as the Japanese are concerned.

Actually according to IGN the last major PS1 game that came out for the system came out in 2003, exactly two years after the launch of the PS2. That game was Final Fantasy Origins. Now can you tell me how many Nintendo 64 games came out after the Game cube was released? Now you claim to know some about buisness which I do not doubt, but do you truely believe any business will continue to support a system while the public is off buying a newer version of that system? C'mon really I expect better than this, you know good and well that companies abandon their systems to make way for the new system, it's just a allocation of resources.

Gameboy Advance.

Now I do admit I did not read all of your post, I had no want nor urge to fight with you on a plethora of other subjects that would extend my post three to five times longer than it allready is. As for the Capcom deal I really have no knowledge of it, I do know that Capcom is a company and just like any other company they wish to make money. So when they discovered that they had a hit on their hands they planned to market it to it's full extent. A common business tactic I might add.

No, see, there's "Hey we wanna put it on PS2." and then there's "Oh! Sure! It'll be GC exclusive! ....Hey guess what, we lied!"
The man behind Biohazard/Resident Evil was under the impression that it was a GC only release. Then Capcom said "Ha! Gotcha!" and announced it very soon after the release. Within the week, I believe. That's not "Business smart". You don't kill one project like that to sell the same thing later. RE4 sales suffered because of it. Oh look! That hit on their hands just got lukewarm sales.

Capcom pulled a business tactic that any company would do when they have a hit on their hands.

See above.

Instead of taking a smaller share of a game that took millions to make they decided to milk it for all of it's worth. If you expect companies to go to Nintendo and make good games then you should also expect them to send those good games off to other systems so that they could get the full extent of their money possible.

Actually they milked it for much less than it was worth, like I said. On top of that, it was more of a slap in the face considering Nintendo has Capcom doing their Legend of Zelda GBA games. When Nintendo lets you make games for their best series, you don't pull this kind of crap.

Well it should it came out atleast a year before Dreamcast came out.

FF8? Actually it came out just under two weeks before hand.

I'm not damning anything, but at the time of Pokemon, the N64 was having huge problems due to delays, at the same time PS1 was creaping up ever so closer to first place. Pokemon turned people's attention back to Nintendo.

The N64 was in trouble because people didn't want to work with cartridges anymore.

Hey Sharktale was nominated for Best Animated Film, does that mean it deserved the honors? By the way you do know what a filler spot is correct?

Ok, you officially lose any VG argument other. You just called Metroid Prime 2 a "Filler title" for Game of the Year Awards.

I cannot actually believe that you thought Mario Sunshine was a good game. Think about the Mario series before it, Mario 64, Super Mario World, Mario 3 for god sakes. Mario Sunshine was a horrible game and does not even hold a candle to it's previous games.

Did you PLAY Sunshine? It was a spectacular game. Not as good as Mario 3, but that's like saying the Beatles are terrible because they're not Beethoven.

Then please tell me why Legend of Zelda Wind Waker did not bring Nintendo to the top of the heap? If the Zelda series is so strong then why didn't Wind Waker bring Nintendo into First Place, or atleast a strong second? You know why? Casual Gamers, the life blood of the industry, and Casual Gamers are attracted to two things, violence and good graphics. The Xenon delivers on one of the two things and when it comes down to either getting what is "Cool" and what has been out for 4 years. I bet you that they will choose "What is Cool".

"I admit I know nothing of the industry" But look! Here you are pretending you do. No, Windwaker sold. Not as wel as GTA: Generic Bullshit or Halo 945, but it sold pretty well.

Now I have tried to remain as non objective as possible in this, I gave you the benifit of the doubt on your history in buisness and the benifit of the doubt that you are a gamer. It is sad that you cannot give me the same respect.

You called MP2 "Filler" for GotY. Even if I DID give you the benefit of a doubt, I'd slap myself for it.

Now you say you have tried to remain as non fanboyish as possible, that right there is a out and out lie. Statements like Capcom STABED Nintendo in the back, is fan boyish.

Ok, what do you call announcing the port to a game almost as soon as the original game comes out and doing it behind the back of one of your own techs who was under the impression this was GC exclusive? I sure believe that saying "Hey here's an exclusive! HAHA! Not really, get it on PS2 soon kids!" is kind of underhanded.

You claim to know alot about buisness which I hope and believe that you do, but so far you have shown almost no proof that you have any knowledge of the Gaming Industry, or Business in general.

Aside from, you know, being pretty much right.

Yes and it could mean Toy Story type graphics like what Sony said for the PS2, does that mean the PS2 had that type of graphics?

It's common knowledge that if people wanted to hear the PS3 made your penis huge and improved your sex life, they'd tell you that. Nintendo is the king of "I dunno...we'll see*wink*" Microsoft the kings of "Does it cost less than a billion? Sure, we'll do it." And Sony? Sadly, they're the kings of "HEY! HEY GUYS! THIS SYSTEM WILL FLY!". Anyone who knows anything about the gaming market knows Sony is one of the least trustworthy as far as hype goes, unfortunetly.

There is a common phrase in any business industry for what Nintendo is doing, it's called hype and until real numbers for the Revolution comes out I'm going to remain skepticle as you should too.


I didn't go into this just becuase of you although I am sure your ego will tell you differently. Right now I believe that Nintendo is shooting itself in the foot by not putting off the Pokemon XD release. Anyway I love Nintendo I really do I have all of their systems except for the DS and that is becuase I am going to New York in a few weeks. I just do not want to see Nintendo have another lack luster launch like it did with the Gamecube and like it did with the DS, it deserves better than that. We as gamers deserve beter than that.

Once again, you missed my point. Pokemon DS is the Gamecubes chance to show what it can do at its' finest, and entice people to say "Hey, what can the Revolution do?"

And to be fair, the Revolution is in nothing more than test phases. There's no name or games lined up, but companies ARE getting their dev kits, so I don't think it's too far that tight-lipped Nintendo has their specs ready for E3.

[Razola]

I should mention that Gamecube is 2nd worldwide.

The Japanese aren't too fond of the X-Box. No sir.

[Misty]

Raz, the XBox passed the GC like over six months ago. Current numbers -

XBox - 20 million
GC - 18 million
(PS2 - 80 million)

The XBox has been outselling the GC very consistently in the US for a year - usually doubling it. Moreover, Europe prefers the XBox.

[The Muffin Man]

Raz, the XBox passed the GC like over six months ago. Current numbers -

XBox - 20 million
GC - 18 million
(PS2 - 80 million)

The XBox has been outselling the GC very consistently in the US for a year - usually doubling it. Moreover, Europe prefers the XBox.

So we're ignoring the GCs strongest market? That's good. Then let's ignore the US for XBox.

Oh shit, the XBox has about 1.4 mil. sales. It would be 1.36, but Japan has like 400 sold.

[The Muffin Man]

On an entirely different, but on-topic note(hence doubleposting):

The Revolution will be backwards compatible, so a Pokemon game and Zelda game aren't exactly wasted. Don't have a GC? Pick up a Revolution and get everything you missed out on. So there goes the "Pokemon XD and Zelda are too little too late" argument.

[Roy Karrde]

Fine. Microsoft is barely hanging onto the market and Sony is a few sales away from being out of the market. But wait! They're number 2 and 1! Well, I'm just putting a negative spin to make it look like I have clue one about what I'm saying.

Well hey put what ever spin on it that you want I could care less, but no matter how much you pray to the tooth fairy, Nintendo's ranking and numbers are not going to change. Nor is the fact that Nintendo's market share that was once at 90% has slipped down to below 30%. With that kindof decline Nintendo could be the next Sega. But hey your the business expert right? Why dont you explain it to me how a company can expect to stay afloat with a declining market share.

You mean the generally conglomorate Microsoft of the "Know-what-they're-doing" Nintendo. Tell me, which company did Square return to and Capcom never leave? Actually, as far as most japanese companies are concerned, Nintendo is number 2. Oh wait, it IS as far as the Japanese are concerned.

Yes Square returned to Nintendo to give them table scrappings. Square wanted the handheld market and if they had to put out a half assed game on the GameCube then so be it. Again it comes down to money not loyalty that is something that seems to be beyond you at the moment. Plus I bet that Square and Capcom also look at the same reports that you and I look at that are put out each week as to how many of each system are sold. By the way here is the major problem in your argument. If the Japanese believe that the Xbox is truely in third place and that Nintendo is second, then why are so many Japanese developers making exclusive games for the Xenon?

Gameboy Advance.

Yes and I bet you money, real hard money that in the next few years Gameboy Advance games will decline ten fold. The developers will move on to either the PSP or the DS or the GBE. History has taught us that when a new system comes out everyone jumps ship to it. Hell look at CD's and Tapes, or VHS' and DVD's. Each time something new comes out companies move toward what is new leaving the old behind. Yet since you know all about business I am sure you know that allready.

No, see, there's "Hey we wanna put it on PS2." and then there's "Oh! Sure! It'll be GC exclusive! ....Hey guess what, we lied!"

All is fair in love and war correct? Or how about Money makes the world go round? I am betting you that when Capcom went into the contract with Nintendo they were thinking that Nintendo would be able to over take the Xbox in the North American and European market. That never happened and suddenly the Capcom's big five shrunk down to the big three. Capcom is like any other third party company and they want money. Nintendo's sells for the Resident Evil series were never as good as they were on the Playstation systems so Capcom went back to where it could make the most money. It's common business sence but hey look who I'm talking to you should know that allready right?

The man behind Biohazard/Resident Evil was under the impression that it was a GC only release. Then Capcom said "Ha! Gotcha!" and announced it very soon after the release. Within the week, I believe. That's not "Business smart". You don't kill one project like that to sell the same thing later. RE4 sales suffered because of it. Oh look! That hit on their hands just got lukewarm sales.

Okay so can you tell me truthfully that you believe that Resident Evil 4 would have sold any better if it did not go to the PS2? Hell look at Resident Evil 0's sells and the relaunch of Resident Evil 1, neither sold that well on the Gamecube compared to how well they would have sold on the PS2. Now are you telling me that moving a project from exclusive to third party is not very business smart when the third party game can make ten to twenty times more money? Buddy I'm begining to believe that you have less knowledge in business than even my eight year old brother.

Actually they milked it for much less than it was worth, like I said. On top of that, it was more of a slap in the face considering Nintendo has Capcom doing their Legend of Zelda GBA games. When Nintendo lets you make games for their best series, you don't pull this kind of crap.

Biohazard 0 sold less than what was to be expected, P.N. 03 sold way below what was to be expected. Capcom was suffering a 12.7 billion yin lost in the fiscal year of 2004. Again it comes down to money and where best to get the money.

The N64 was in trouble because people didn't want to work with cartridges anymore.

LMAO yeah people did not want to work cartridges anymore, yeah it had nothing to do with the year to two year long delays that most games were experiencing, or the infamous droubts that happened during the N64's life span.

Ok, you officially lose any VG argument other. You just called Metroid Prime 2 a "Filler title" for Game of the Year Awards.

Seeing how that Nintendo really had no other "good" game in the last year except for a game that in most circles is believed to be a rehash of a product that wasn't that good in the first place. Yeah I'm going to call Metroid Prime 2 a filler title, or maybe the "default" title would be more fitting since it really was the only game close to even being Game of the year potential.

Did you PLAY Sunshine? It was a spectacular game. Not as good as Mario 3, but that's like saying the Beatles are terrible because they're not Beethoven.

You know what, yes I did play Sunshine, but you must have the Super edition of it becuase the game that I played wasn't even worthy of the Mario title and was more in league with Mario is Missing than the Super Mario Series. Yet you seem to have the special version of the game that no one got so could you please send it to me. I would love to try to play a game that isn't as much of a travisty as Super Mario Sunshine was.

"I admit I know nothing of the industry" But look! Here you are pretending you do. No, Windwaker sold. Not as wel as GTA: Generic Bullshit or Halo 945, but it sold pretty well.

Sold well compared to what? It did not even make the top ten games sold in Japan during the fiscal year of 2002. Both Super Mario Sunshine and Mario Party 4 outsold it. Yet isnt this supposed to be one of Nintendo's top games? Hell even Pokemon Ruby and Sapphire sold 4 times the number of Wind Waker games. Now do you truely expect that this series will actually deal damage to the Xbox sells? By the way your classless putdowns of other series shows me how little you know and respect about the gaming industry. By the way seeing how most of Nintendo's games are series that started way back in the NES days, I wouldn't be calling anything Generic Bullshit if I were you.

Ok, what do you call announcing the port to a game almost as soon as the original game comes out and doing it behind the back of one of your own techs who was under the impression this was GC exclusive? I sure believe that saying "Hey here's an exclusive! HAHA! Not really, get it on PS2 soon kids!" is kind of underhanded.Aside from, you know, being pretty much right.

What they did is called business something that I thought you knew something about, but I guess I'm wrong. Besides the person that announced that it would be ported to another system most likely had a bit more power than a tech, if that is true then in reality he did not have to tell any of his techs what his plans would be since he is their boss. Now I assume that you have had a job, in that job if you have had one, did your boss consult you in all business dealings? I would venture to guess no, you know why? Becuase it is none of your business to know.

It's common knowledge that if people wanted to hear the PS3 made your penis huge and improved your sex life, they'd tell you that. Nintendo is the king of "I dunno...we'll see*wink*" Microsoft the kings of "Does it cost less than a billion? Sure, we'll do it." And Sony? Sadly, they're the kings of "HEY! HEY GUYS! THIS SYSTEM WILL FLY!". Anyone who knows anything about the gaming market knows Sony is one of the least trustworthy as far as hype goes, unfortunetly.

That is true but anyone in the industry also knows that Nintendo is the last company to give the public what it wants. Such as Internet, the public obviously wanted to have internet multiplayer games, so Sony and Microsoft brought out PS2 Online, and Xbox live, Nintendo gave them connectability. Sony gave the public games on CD's that could play FMV's, Nintendo gave them cartridges that cost 70 dollars when first released, and millions of delays.

Once again, you missed my point. Pokemon DS is the Gamecubes chance to show what it can do at its' finest, and entice people to say "Hey, what can the Revolution do?"

Why, I thought that was the duty of games like Resident Evil 4, and Legend of Zelda that would cause people to wonder. Now your placing blind faith in Pokemon XD that it will bring about huge graphical leaps when you have not even seen a single screen shot of it? Now really I would love to play Pokemon XD as soon as possible. Yet if you look at Gamecube's launch and you look at Nintendo DS's launch then you know that Nintendo has had less than steller launches in the past 5 years. Pokemon XD would be much more better on the Revolution with it's WIFI Internet play, and it's updated graphics. Than on the Gamecube with it's horrible texturing and it's lack of online play, correct?

And to be fair, the Revolution is in nothing more than test phases. There's no name or games lined up, but companies ARE getting their dev kits, so I don't think it's too far that tight-lipped Nintendo has their specs ready for E3.

Well until we actually see some specs than anything about the Revolution's graphic, sound, and all other capibilities of it is just speculation.

The Revolution will be backwards compatible, so a Pokemon game and Zelda game aren't exactly wasted. Don't have a GC? Pick up a Revolution and get everything you missed out on. So there goes the "Pokemon XD and Zelda are too little too late" argument.

Yes everyone yes, if you do not have a Gamecube and want to play a Pokemon and Zelda game for the Gamecube go and pick of the Revolution. Who cares that neither of those games will be able to go onto the Internet. Who cares that your going to be paying 3 times more for a console for games you most likely could play on a gamecube for atleast three times less the money. Who Cares right? Becuase if the Revolution is anything like the Gamecube it will have a medicore third party support, and a lack luster launch, but WHO CARES right?

So we're ignoring the GCs strongest market? That's good. Then let's ignore the US for XBox.

Even in Nintendo's strongest market it only sells 3,000 more than the Xbox per week. Besides so far resent trends have shown that the U.S. and Europe are begining to be larger markets for systems. Yet I dont have to tell you that right, becuase you know all about business.

Edit: Like I have said before I have made my point, and Mike all your doing is spinning in circles. I bet I could take many of my previous arguments from this thread and stick them into this post and I doubt you would even notice. So in other words I have made my point, you can continue to spin in circles as much as you want until you get dizzy, I do not care. Infact it's pretty funny to watch so go on and spin and I'll just sit back and enjoy the show.

[The Muffin Man]

Well hey put what ever spin on it that you want I could care less, but no matter how much you pray to the tooth fairy, Nintendo's ranking and numbers are not going to change. Nor is the fact that Nintendo's market share that was once at 90% has slipped down to below 30%. With that kindof decline Nintendo could be the next Sega. But hey your the business expert right? Why dont you explain it to me how a company can expect to stay afloat with a declining market share.

...From 90%, all you can do is 1 of 2 things:
Rise to 100%, making the competitors easily target you for a Monopoly of the industry. Or drop.

Yes Square returned to Nintendo to give them table scrappings. Square wanted the handheld market and if they had to put out a half assed game on the GameCube then so be it. Again it comes down to money not loyalty that is something that seems to be beyond you at the moment. Plus I bet that Square and Capcom also look at the same reports that you and I look at that are put out each week as to how many of each system are sold. By the way here is the major problem in your argument. If the Japanese believe that the Xbox is truely in third place and that Nintendo is second, then why are so many Japanese developers making exclusive games for the Xenon?

Name a few. Also, Halo 1: 'Exclusive', on PC. KoTOR 1 and 2: 'Exclusive', now on PC. Halo 2: Guess where it's gonna be soon? Fable: 'Exclusive', now on PC. This is a fairly common trend, unfortunetly.

Yes and I bet you money, real hard money that in the next few years Gameboy Advance games will decline ten fold. The developers will move on to either the PSP or the DS or the GBE. History has taught us that when a new system comes out everyone jumps ship to it. Hell look at CD's and Tapes, or VHS' and DVD's. Each time something new comes out companies move toward what is new leaving the old behind. Yet since you know all about business I am sure you know that allready.

Fine. Gameboy in general, then. Besides the fact that the DS can still play GBA games, and so can the GBE as far as we know, the Gameboy has never been dropped for anything.

All is fair in love and war correct? Or how about Money makes the world go round? I am betting you that when Capcom went into the contract with Nintendo they were thinking that Nintendo would be able to over take the Xbox in the North American and European market. That never happened and suddenly the Capcom's big five shrunk down to the big three.

How did they "shrink down"? Only 3 are released, and PN03 isn't THAT bad. So unless you got all your info from IGN forums at the spur of the moment, this is like strike 30.

Capcom is like any other third party company and they want money. Nintendo's sells for the Resident Evil series were never as good as they were on the Playstation systems so Capcom went back to where it could make the most money. It's common business sence but hey look who I'm talking to you should know that already right?

What the hell are you talking about? Of course they're not as good, they came out at a point when they've been played. On top of that, do you even have ANY clue what Capcom did? I'll explain this ONE. LAST. TIME.
Head of RE4 team says "RE is going to be GC exclusive". Capcom agrees.
RE4 is tailored for GC.
Head of RE4 team is proud, says he'll cut his head off before a PS2 release.
Capcom puts him n guillotine, waits for US launch, then says "HEY GUYS FUCK THE GAMECUBE" and pretty much sabotages it.

Yeah. That's really intelligent business. That's not "milking for all it's worth". That's "rigging the deck so you get the wanted outcome". Now they can claim they do so little GC exclusive because of "how badly they sell".

Okay so can you tell me truthfully that you believe that Resident Evil 4 would have sold any better if it did not go to the PS2?

If they waited a few weeks(say, around now) and THEN released the port, it would have made a lot more money.

Hell look at Resident Evil 0's sells and the relaunch of Resident Evil 1, neither sold that well on the Gamecube compared to how well they would have sold on the PS2.

You lose the argument. You just made yourself so blatantly obviously picking the opposite side, now. If you WERE a gamer and not just trolling me, you'd know better than to say "Then they WOULD have sold..." because guess what Roy?

A few of them ARE on the PS2. Code Veronica X literally was. The others(aside from Zero, an original game) were released on the PSOne and therefore are very easy to get for the PS2. Anyone who knows shit about games knows that.

Now are you telling me that moving a project from exclusive to third party is not very business smart when the third party game can make ten to twenty times more money? Buddy I'm begining to believe that you have less knowledge in business than even my eight year old brother.

And now you're using the terminology wrong. Capcom always was third-party.
But see, you have no clue what you're talking about. So let me explain this twice in the same post, in bold letters for ya, Roy.
CAPCOM ANNOUNCED THE PORT ALMOST IMMEDIATLY AFTER RELEASING RE4 ON THE GAMECUBE. THAT IS NOT MILKING IT FOR ALL IT IS WORTH. THAT IS DELIBERATELY SABOTAGING A LAUNCH FOR THE DESIRED RESULT.

Biohazard 0 sold less than what was to be expected, P.N. 03 sold way below what was to be expected. Capcom was suffering a 12.7 billion yin lost in the fiscal year of 2004. Again it comes down to money and where best to get the money.

And that's Nintendos fault for 2 games?

LMAO yeah people did not want to work cartridges anymore, yeah it had nothing to do with the year to two year long delays that most games were experiencing, or the infamous droubts that happened during the N64's life span.

...BECAUSE PEOPLE DID NOT WANT TO WORK WITH CARTRIDGES. Christ, Roy. You're making it way too easy on me.

Seeing how that Nintendo really had no other "good" game in the last year except for a game that in most circles is believed to be a rehash of a product that wasn't that good in the first place. Yeah I'm going to call Metroid Prime 2 a filler title, or maybe the "default" title would be more fitting since it really was the only game close to even being Game of the year potential.

You're either a raging fanboy, or I was right to assume that you're doing this to spite me. Was Metroid Prime a Halo clone?

You know what, yes I did play Sunshine, but you must have the Super edition of it becuase the game that I played wasn't even worthy of the Mario title and was more in league with Mario is Missing than the Super Mario Series. Yet you seem to have the special version of the game that no one got so could you please send it to me. I would love to try to play a game that isn't as much of a travisty as Super Mario Sunshine was.

No I just played the ones with the amazing special levels where he had no waterpark, and where 80% of the game was good old fashioned jumping and the last 20% was waterpack.

Sold well compared to what? It did not even make the top ten games sold in Japan during the fiscal year of 2002. Both Super Mario Sunshine and Mario Party 4 outsold it. Yet isnt this supposed to be one of Nintendo's top games? Hell even Pokemon Ruby and Sapphire sold 4 times the number of Wind Waker games. Now do you truely expect that this series will actually deal damage to the Xbox sells? By the way your classless putdowns of other series shows me how little you know and respect about the gaming industry. By the way seeing how most of Nintendo's games are series that started way back in the NES days, I wouldn't be calling anything Generic Bullshit if I were you.

Yes. My classless insults of 2 fad games, one of which I own, one of which I've played quite a bit off over the years(and loved GTA2...yes, there was a 2, Roy) shows that I have no respect for an industry 'started' by Nintendo and Sega.
Now, back to the rest of the post. So, a "crappy" game(Sunshine), a Pokemon title, and Mario Party(which people snatch up quite fast) all outsold Zelda. Well, on top of the fact that you shot down your "LOL SUNSHINE SUCKS" 'argument'...

What they did is called business something that I thought you knew something about, but I guess I'm wrong. Besides the person that announced that it would be ported to another system most likely had a bit more power than a tech, if that is true then in reality he did not have to tell any of his techs what his plans would be since he is their boss. Now I assume that you have had a job, in that job if you have had one, did your boss consult you in all business dealings? I would venture to guess no, you know why? Becuase it is none of your business to know.

Roy, in the real world, a boss who doesn't want an entire team of developers up and quit usually consults someone before whoring their brainchild out.

That is true but anyone in the industry also knows that Nintendo is the last company to give the public what it wants. Such as Internet, the public obviously wanted to have internet multiplayer games, so Sony and Microsoft brought out PS2 Online, and Xbox live, Nintendo gave them connectability. Sony gave the public games on CD's that could play FMV's, Nintendo gave them cartridges that cost 70 dollars when first released, and millions of delays.

Nintendo says what nobody wants to hear: The truth. They don't need an Internet service that is full of bugs and faulty and PAYED for(Hence the free Online service with the N5). And the PS2 has a small handful of online games. The only system that did it well was Microsoft, but they're not exactly new to the whole Online business.

Also, the RE2 for N64 was actually stronger than the RE2 on PSOne.
And this is like the 4th time you just proved you're a turn-of-the-century gamer. I won't even mention it unless you truly want to know. And even then, I'll only give a hint.

Why, I thought that was the duty of games like Resident Evil 4, and Legend of Zelda that would cause people to wonder. Now your placing blind faith in Pokemon XD that it will bring about huge graphical leaps when you have not even seen a single screen shot of it? Now really I would love to play Pokemon XD as soon as possible. Yet if you look at Gamecube's launch and you look at Nintendo DS's launch then you know that Nintendo has had less than steller launches in the past 5 years.

Yes, Nintendo needs 400 mediocre games with 4 or 5 good titles(PSP, anyone?) with a "Launch Window" of 3 months.

Pokemon XD would be much more better on the Revolution with it's WIFI Internet play, and it's updated graphics. Than on the Gamecube with it's horrible texturing and it's lack of online play, correct?

Horrible texturing? Did you PLAY RE4, Mario Sunshine, Metroid Prime 1 OR Echos? Have you seen Killer 7? Most of all, have you seen the GAMEPLAY videos of the new Zelda?

Well until we actually see some specs than anything about the Revolution's graphic, sound, and all other capibilities of it is just speculation.

All unfinished, and like I said, Nintendo keeps things under wrap for quite a while. I'd like to see the specs too, but they're probably weighing their options and want to see PS3 and Xenons specs so they can throw away the weaker options.

Yes everyone yes, if you do not have a Gamecube and want to play a Pokemon and Zelda game for the Gamecube go and pick of the Revolution. Who cares that neither of those games will be able to go onto the Internet.

Phantasy Star can go online, actually. Mario Kart DD can LAN up. In fact, Warp Pipe does this a lot. So really, it's just lack of support from NINTENDO keeping anything from going Online and not just LANing it.

Who cares that your going to be paying 3 times more for a console for games you most likely could play on a gamecube for atleast three times less the money.

Yes. And a library of games that, once they hit "Best Sellers" go to $20-30, and an already established library. And we all know that the N5 will cost $300. Because NO PRICE HAS BEEN SAID YET.

Who Cares right? Becuase if the Revolution is anything like the Gamecube it will have a medicore third party support, and a lack luster launch, but WHO CARES right?

Backwards compatibility is counted towards the launch. PS2 has some pretty shitty launch titles, and mediocre support.

Even in Nintendo's strongest market it only sells 3,000 more than the Xbox per week. Besides so far resent trends have shown that the U.S. and Europe are begining to be larger markets for systems. Yet I dont have to tell you that right, becuase you know all about business.

A WEEK, Roy. On top of the fact that we're not dealing with pennies, wanna hazard a guess on how many 3000 a weak JUST since that gap has shortened?

Edit: Like I have said before I have made my point, and Mike all your doing is spinning in circles.

Following you.

I bet I could take many of my previous arguments from this thread and stick them into this post and I doubt you would even notice.

Actually, I thought you already were.

So in other words I have made my point, you can continue to spin in circles as much as you want until you get dizzy, I do not care. Infact it's pretty funny to watch so go on and spin and I'll just sit back and enjoy the show.

So you admit you're doing this to troll me. Good to know.

Roy, what I say now I don't say because of our TPM butting of heads, or because I don't like you or your petty girlfriend or anything.
What I say now, I say as an honest gamer who's been with this industry since I was three. 17 long hard years. And I say this now not as The Muffin Man. But as Mike C. Card-carrying member of the Gamer Society since before we were even CALLED Gamers.

Get out of my forum.

[Roy Karrde]

See the whole reason I said we were going in circles? That's why I deleted my post, the whole argument is assinine becuase were just filling in Gap A with Remark A and filling in Gap B with Remark B. They are the same things we have been saying the last two days so why bother posting?

Edit: I leave Kikyo out of all of my arguments and do not call her names. I thought you were man egnough to pay PolHaruko the same respect, but I guess not.

Edit 2 * For the Post Below Edition *: I have no problem with Kikyo, I like her and consider her a good friend even though she may not share the same view. Yet like any person there are things I disagree with her about, does that mean I randomly post them in arguments against you? No becuase I have one thing you dont have, class. Anyway there is a thing called PM if you want to insult me or my girlfriend I suggest using it.

[The Muffin Man]

See the whole reason I said we were going in circles? That's why I deleted my post, the whole argument is assinine becuase were just filling in Gap A with Remark A and filling in Gap B with Remark B. They are the same things we have been saying the last two days so why bother posting?

Edit: I leave Kikyo out of all of my arguments and do not call her names. I thought you were man egnough to pay PolHaruko the same respect, but I guess not.

I don't like Dani. As far as I knew, you liked Kikyo.

[Misty]

TMM, those figures are total worldwide. They include Japan, America, Europe, Elbonia, and YOUR MOM Land.

[The Muffin Man]

TMM, those figures are total worldwide. They include Japan, America, Europe, Elbonia, and YOUR MOM Land.

That was uncalled for

[Razola]

Third place isn't losing if you're making a profit. And shit, if Nintendo is in trouble then the X-Box must be struggling to. Look at those PS2 numbers. Look at them.

My information was outdated, but I find it funny that in the console business you aren't allowed to have competition. In the fast food industry we can have several existing chains. It's not "Shit, Wendy's is in third! They better release that new burger or they are in deep shit!"

I think rabid fanboyism is the problem. Bottom line is that all three consoles are doing well.

[Misty]

Well, technically I think the PS2 totally cleaned up this gen and left everyone in the dust from a business standpoint - but from a gamer standpoint(as it should be since none of us own stock in those companies ... Right?), every console is worth owning, and that's the important part.

[Legends-Kuja]

Bingo. I'm still mad I don't have a GC anymore, but with Revolution being backwards compatible, this will OWN.

[Legends-Kuja]

News, people:

http://cube.ign.com/articles/613/613340p1.html

New details on Revolution include
-punier size, as Mac Mini's actually bigger
-Wi-Fi out the box
-Backwards compatable, but you already knew that
-MAY be able to play DVD software.

[Jeff]

That all sounds good, alot of people wanted wireless controllers to be standard (including me) so it's nice to see that.

As for the DVD player, I'm kind of indifferent to that, but I like the thought of having a DVD player just to shut up the "OMG NINTENDO DOSNT LIEK DVD PLAYERZ, IT SUX!!!!!111" crowd.

Edit: according to the first of Planet Gamecube's two articles on the subject, DVD playback is CONFIRMED

Unlike GameCube, the new system will play DVD's, Ms. Kaplan said, and will feature a wireless controller. It will play GameCube games as well as a new class of high-definition games, with new emphasis on online play.

[Powarun]

Will the Revolution be able to play Gameboy or Gameboy Advance games? That is a question I would like to be answered, because if it did htat would be sweet. If it could it woudl be awsome that I could still play a game from the 80's. Over two generations old, now that would be backwards compatible.

[FTorchicX]

Will the Revolution be able to play Gameboy or Gameboy Advance games? That is a question I would like to be answered, because if it did htat would be sweet. If it could it woudl be awsome that I could still play a game from the 80's. Over two generations old, now that would be backwards compatible.

Chances are, it probably won't. I can't picture Nintendo doing that. Fortunately though, I could picture them making the next Gameboy backwards compatible when it comes out (even though the DS can play GBA games).

Anyways, it sounds like the Revolution is going to be very slick. That's great, but I hope they don't make their console look as bland as the Xbox 360.