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Thread: Companions to ELC/WTR/ICE

  1. #1
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    Default Companions to ELC/WTR/ICE

    First, some background: the combination of Electric, Ice and Water attacks on a single special sweeper is popular because so few pokémon can resist all three; in fact, only two can, a Volt Absorb Chinchou/Lanturn and Shedinja. All other pokémon take at least standard damage from at least one of those three types.
    It bugged me that Shedinja got away with no damage from such an otherwise potent combo, so I decided (as I often do) to research the heck out of the matter. I identified 140 different sets of three attack types, those which are entirely physical or entirely special (since the EV system makes that desirable in Advance Gen) and 89 target types (divided not only by type but also by the Special Abilities that affect type relations. A Hariyama with Thick Fat is a different target type than a Hariyama with Guts.)
    I created a scoring system for each set of attack types, as follows:
    Each set was given two scores, a Strength score and a Weakness score. A set scores one Strength point for every target type that takes super-effective damage from at least one of the set's types; it scores five Strength points for each target type that takes 4x damage from at least one of the set's types (Shedinja was counted as taking 4x damage from each of the five attack types that hurt it, due to that whole one-hit-point thing.) Obviously, a high Strength score is desirable.
    A Weakness score works the opposite way, with low scores being desirable. A set of three attack types scores one Weakness point for every target type that takes, at most, half damage from the set. It scores five Weakness points for every target type that takes, at most, one quarter damage, and it scores ten Weakness points for each target type that it cannot damage at all (mostly Shedinja, but Fighting/Ground/Normal gets a second 10 for Misdreavus and a third for Gengar, ending up with a Weakness score of 30. Ouch!)

    Here are the results that I found. I invite folks to discuss the merits of sets that scored well.

    First, here's a list of all sets which had a Weakness Score of Zero. Electric/Ice/Water has a Weakness Score of 11 (1 for Volt Absorb Lanturn and 10 for Shedinja.) These sets deal at least standard damage to every pokémon in existance (pre-Diamond/Pearl, that is...)

    Bug/Fighting/Ghost
    Bug/Ground/Rock
    Dark/Dragon/Water
    Dark/Electric/Fire
    Dragon/Fire/-filler- (Dragon and Fire by themselves cover everything!!)
    Flying/Ground/Rock
    Fighting/Flying/Ghost
    Fighting/Flying/Normal
    Fighting/Flying/Poison
    Fighting/Flying/Rock
    Fighting/Ghost/Ground
    Fighting/Ghost/Normal
    Fighting/Ghost/Poison
    Fighting/Ghost/Rock
    Fighting/Ghost/Steel
    Fighting/Normal/Rock
    Fighting/Rock/Steel
    Ghost/Ground/Rock
    Ground/Normal/Rock
    Ground/Rock/Steel

    Second, here are the top twenty Strength Scores. I will italicize, for your convenience, the entries on this list which also were in the previous list.

    100 Fire/Grass/Ice
    97 Bug/Ground/Rock
    94 Flying/Ground/Rock

    93 Grass/Ice/Water
    91 Bug/Fighting/Rock
    91 Electric/Ice/Water
    91 Fire/Grass/Water
    90 Electric/Grass/Ice
    90 Fire/Ice/Water
    90 Fighting/Flying/Rock
    88 Dark/Grass/Ice
    88 Electric/Fire/Water
    88 Fighting/Ground/Rock
    86 Bug/Flying/Rock
    86 Electric/Fire/Grass
    86 Electric/Fire/Ice
    86 Fighting/Flying/Ground
    86 Ghost/Ground/Rock
    85 Bug/Flying/Ground
    84 Grass/Ice/Psychic

    Looks like Bug/Ground/Rock is a highly useful combo...let us all fear Megahorn/Earthquake/Rock Slide Heracross and Nidoking! On the other hand, with the highest Strength Score and a Weakness Score of only 4, this might start people putting Ice Beam on Sunnybeam sets...
    Incidentally, since I only explored sets that were entirely special or entirely physical, I cannot speak to the effectiveness of (special)/(special)/Substitute/Focus Punch sets. Does anyone know of such a set that performs as admirably as Bug/Ground/Rock or Fire/Grass/Ice?


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  2. #2
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    Silent Dragonfly's Avatar
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    Default Companions to ELC/WTR/ICE

    Pory, you have way too much time on your hands. This looks pretty useful. Good Job



  3. #3

    Default Companions to ELC/WTR/ICE

    You may also need to take into account the Standard OUs as a factor and what their weaknesses are. If everyone uses Standard OUs like Snorlax and Blissey for example there's a big Fighting weakness there. To win your special idea of Fire/Grass/Ice you would need a Pokemon with something like Flamethrower/Solarbeam/HP Ice/Sunny Day. Flygon could pull this off but Flygon sucks when it comes to Special Sweeping. Anyway great research you've put your time into.

  4. #4
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    Default Companions to ELC/WTR/ICE

    Hmm! A cursory check reveals several Normal-types who can use the Sunny Day, Flamethrower, Solarbeam and Ice Beam TMs, such as Clefable, Blissey and Lickitung. Clefable seems, to me, to have the best stats of the crowd for using that set...at least thus far...Ooh! Exploud is a pretty decent contender, too.


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  5. #5
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    Default Companions to ELC/WTR/ICE

    I always wanted to figure something like this out, but never had the time, nice work.

    Guess I'm off to train a Heracross or Nidoking like you mentioned.
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  6. #6
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    Default Companions to ELC/WTR/ICE

    Quote Originally Posted by Poryhedron
    Hmm! A cursory check reveals several Normal-types who can use the Sunny Day, Flamethrower, Solarbeam and Ice Beam TMs, such as Clefable, Blissey and Lickitung. Clefable seems, to me, to have the best stats of the crowd for using that set...at least thus far...Ooh! Exploud is a pretty decent contender, too.
    I'm training an Exploud with that exact set for my team right now!

    RocketScyther

  7. #7

    Default Companions to ELC/WTR/ICE

    Quote Originally Posted by Poryhedron
    Hmm! A cursory check reveals several Normal-types who can use the Sunny Day, Flamethrower, Solarbeam and Ice Beam TMs, such as Clefable, Blissey and Lickitung. Clefable seems, to me, to have the best stats of the crowd for using that set...at least thus far...Ooh! Exploud is a pretty decent contender, too.
    The only problem is those Pokemon are weak to Fighting and none of those moves would really hurt a Fighting Pokemon except Solarbeam. I know most people would switch out to their Physical Tank or a Pokemon that resists a Fighting attack but you never know what moves these Physical Fighting Sweepers carry. You were right about Heracross/Nidoking because those Physical Sweepers own most of the current Standards.

  8. #8
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    Default Companions to ELC/WTR/ICE

    Quote Originally Posted by andyizcool
    The only problem is those Pokemon are weak to Fighting and none of those moves would really hurt a Fighting Pokemon except Solarbeam. I know most people would switch out to their Physical Tank or a Pokemon that resists a Fighting attack but you never know what moves these Physical Fighting Sweepers carry. You were right about Heracross/Nidoking because those Physical Sweepers own most of the current Standards.
    Thinks it over... Well... You could use a Mr. Mime. He's resistant to fighting at least. He can't use Sunny Day, but his high special attack works with those moves (ice punch, fire punch and solar beam) and if you set him up with a Sunny Day he'll be fine. Plus, he can use psychic to beat fighting types or use a stat enhancer like barrier (reflect won't help because of brick break)

    Swalot can use Sunny Day, Solarbeam, and Fire Punch, Ice Punch. The sunny day is probably required due to his low sp. attack, but he can learn giga drain instead of sbeam if you want to open up a fourth move choice. And of course, swalot is also resistant to fighting attacks.

    And there's castform. Not great stats but he changes to fire type. Useful for STAB and takes away his fighting weakness. And you'd probably want weather ball instead of fthrower/fire blast.

    Okay, they aren't GREAT options, but it does give me an excuse to use another swalot. I love him.

    EDIT: Oh yeah. The high flying/rock/ground score makes my aerodactyl happy. Very happy.

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