Official Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince discussion topic (Spoilers)

[Kris]

I think DD is dead but that snape isnt evil as it was all planned.

Just something says snape cant be truely evil

[Magmar]

Snape is a good Christian boy!

[Kris]

What?

[Magmar]

He says a rosary twice a day and always eats his vegetables. Praise the Lord!

[Kris]

Umm what has this got to do with harry potter?

[Heald]

Wasn't the Unbreakable Curse that Snape had to help Draco kill Dumbledore while Draco was still at Hogwarts? If Dumbledore isn't dead and Draco has been expelled then surely Snape would've died by now.

[Kris]

I thought the curse was just to protect Draco, which he has done as Draco has not been hurt

[The Blue Avenger]

If I recall correctly, the Unbreakable Curse was made so that Snape would help Draco if he failed his task. They never specified which task. So it's not necessarily limited to killing Dumbledore.

[Kris]

heres the unbreakable curse, as from the book...

'Will you severus, watch over my son Draco as he attempts to fulfill the Dark Lords wishes?'
'And will you to the best of your ability protect him from harm'
'And should it prove necessary ... if it seems Draco will fail will you carry out the deed that the dark lord has ordered draco to perform?'

So there ya go

[Katie]

^^^ lol it sounds like he's getting married

on topic, I learned I'm a gigantic dork today. in english class we read excerpts from the 4th hp book and had to point out "archetypes" or something... and when I finished reading the lil excerpt I knew exactly what the sentence following what was actually written there said. it ended with harry's scar hurting, and wondered if he should write to ron/hermione. and I knew what happened next was harry assuming hermione would suggest to write to dumbledore and in the meantime consult a book. I haven't even read hp4 in forever. halp I'm obsessed.

[Magmar]

LOL @ Katie, that's okay!

You know, I really think Snape had to choose between killing Dumbledore and dying himself. If Snape chose to die himself by not killing Dumbledore, one of the other Death Eaters would've killed Dumby and then there'd be two missing Order members...

[Sceptile_Master]

I wouldn't count on snape being an order member anyways anymore.

[Metallixs Girl]

I just finished the book and I liked it even though it is darker. I just have a few quick things to ask:

They stressed that Apperation wasn't allowed anywhere exept the Great Hall for the time of their lesson. If that is so, how in the world have the houseelves been able to Apperate all over school for six years?!

Who is older, Bill or Charlie Weasley. Why on earth was Bill even in school? Unless I'm severely mistaken, I thought Charlie was the oldest and that he, Bill, and Percy were all out of Hogwarts? They'd have to be because aren't the twins at least 17 by now?

Also, I can't remember who said it first but I agree with whoever said #6 seemed a little strong for the kid audience. As I was reading, I figured that violence allone would warrent a PG-13 movie, but it'll deffinately get that if they add in the other stuff.

[Zak]

If anything, 5 was dodgier than 6 for kid audience.

And... Bill is older than Charlie. Charlie was at Hogwarts the year before Harry started his first year, as it has been stated that Harry replaced Charlie as Gryffindor Seeker.


~Zak

[Metallixs Girl]

If anything, 5 was dodgier than 6 for kid audience.

And... Bill is older than Charlie. Charlie was at Hogwarts the year before Harry started his first year, as it has been stated that Harry replaced Charlie as Gryffindor Seeker.


~Zak

Oh ok, Bill is the oldest, and Charlie graduated? So why was Bill there during the Dark Mark scene?

[mr_pikachu]

If anything, 5 was dodgier than 6 for kid audience.

In what way? There was plenty of violence in both; I'd rate them about the same in that. 5 had a "wet kiss"... because Cho was crying. In 6 we progressed to vertical wrestling matches in addition to language that I would never have expected to have seen in Harry Potter. (See the word "sl**" on page 365. And yes, I memorized the page number for easier referencing during debates on the issue. So sue me.)

Maybe I'm missing something, but I fail to see how the material in book five was worse (or heck, even close to) the somewhat more mature elements of six. Would you mind elaborating?

[Zak]

Oh ok, Bill is the oldest, and Charlie graduated? So why was Bill there during the Dark Mark scene?

The Dark Mark scene didn't take place at Hogwarts. It was at the Quidditch Stadium, right after the World Cup.

In what way? There was plenty of violence in both; I'd rate them about the same in that. 5 had a "wet kiss"... because Cho was crying. In 6 we progressed to vertical wrestling matches in addition to language that I would never have expected to have seen in Harry Potter. (See the word "sl**" on page 365. And yes, I memorized the page number for easier referencing during debates on the issue. So sue me.)

Maybe I'm missing something, but I fail to see how the material in book five was worse (or heck, even close to) the somewhat more mature elements of six. Would you mind elaborating?

Okay... in terms of sexuality, maybe six was dodgier.

Action and violence, however, took place mainly in OotP. This book was a lot more relaxed and easygoing. Six may have had more dirty (but I'd barely call that any, even if it was more than five), but five was definately... creepier.
The chains of events in book five would definately be more likely to give an eight-year-old nightmares than anything in six is. Plus, depending on how emotional one may be, five definately would grip you more.
In the course of book six, it just seemed like a normal year at Hogwarts like in the first three books.


~Zak

[Metallixs Girl]

The Dark Mark scene didn't take place at Hogwarts. It was at the Quidditch Stadium, right after the World Cup.

Huh? I just finished the book but maybe I missed something... Harry snuck out of the castle to go with Dumbledore and when they got back the Mark was on the astronomy tower? Did they leave directly after the match? I don't remember that part........

[Zak]

Oh... my bad, thought you meant the fourth book. I was thinking of the chapter "The Dark Mark" ^^;

Anyway... the whole Weasley family came then, to rescue Ron and co. I'd imagine that while Ginny was sharing the Felix (which helped most of them dodge everything), Bill happened to have an encounter with Fenrir.


~Zak

[mr_pikachu]

Action and violence, however, took place mainly in OotP. This book was a lot more relaxed and easygoing. Six may have had more dirty (but I'd barely call that any, even if it was more than five), but five was definately... creepier.
The chains of events in book five would definately be more likely to give an eight-year-old nightmares than anything in six is. Plus, depending on how emotional one may be, five definately would grip you more.
In the course of book six, it just seemed like a normal year at Hogwarts like in the first three books.

You've certainly listed some good points about the violence and intensity of five. However, six had its share, as well. Harry practically ripped Draco to shreds with the spell from the book (splattering blood everywhere, if I recall correctly) and Dumbledore, the hero who successfully defended Harry from an attack by Voldemort, was executed by Snape and his associates. Those are just two examples. The gore of the first one was especially harsh, I thought. Plus, Voldemort split his soul into a bunch of pieces to become more powerful, which is one of the freakiest things I've seen in the Harry Potter series. And again, book six featured other elements that weren't in previous books, like the profanities of which I previously wrote.

I suppose it's a judgment call as to which was worse, looking at your points in comparison to mine. In my opinion, six was still worse, but I can see your point of view. I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder.

[Kris]

|Bill was there with the order to help the fight.

[Crazy]

Yes, I have to agree with mr._pikachu. I also believe that the sixth book was a little bit dodgier. I mean,just the fact that Voldermort split his soul was enough to call it darker.

[Magmar]

What makes them "worse"? It's just more mature, as Harry and his friends grow up, naturally the readers grow up as well...

I don't think adding violence to a war is making the story worse.

Worse is the descriptive adjective when comparing something that was "Bad" to begin with.

So you're saying the books went from bad to worse?

Please, children hear those words everyday. And I don't see anything besides sex and an occasional flipped bird. But what's so inherintly bad about it anyway? (I mauled the spelling of inherantly, or however you spell it.) If a child is too young to be reading the book, the person reading the book to the child (parent, most likely) can EASILY omit the word SLUT (yes I said it SLUT!!!!!!) from the book.

[mr_pikachu]

Well, before this topic dies, how about some theories on what influence HBP will have on the ending?

I think the idea of the horcruxes themselves will have a huge impact on the ending, and I'm talking beyond what'll obviously have to happen. I've got a theory on how the series will end, and the whole thing centers around the horcruxes that were introduced in the second-to-last installment.

There's been a bunch of debating on what the horcruxes might be, but we all know that they'll have to be destroyed/drained/whatever if Voldemort is to be defeated. But what if one of the horcruxes was something that none of the "good guys" would ever, ever want to destroy?

Actually, that question would be better explained if I said "someone".

Here's the idea. Harry destroys all the horcruxes but one. He's searching around, trying to find clues, perhaps thinking about something Voldemort or the Death Eaters said to use as a clue, when the scar on his forehead starts to hurt again. And he realizes it. It's like the devastating ending of The Black Cauldron. In order to destroy Voldemort, he's got to destroy the last horcrux... which is him.

Obviously, if I happen to be right, Rowling's going to have a lot fewer fans after book seven than before it. But it'd be an interesting and probably largely unexpected way to close the book on Harry Potter. In more ways than one.

Thoughts? Alternative theories? Anything?

[Chris 2.1]

But then there is the problem that Harry would need to kill himself before he kills Voldemort. That might be difficult. It wouldn't feel the same if he did all the work, and then someone else finished Voldy off.

I have a question which is related to the entire HP Books. Something I wondered when I was re-reading Book 4. When Voldemort tried to kill Harry, and he was hit by the curse himself, what happened to his wand? He got it given back to him by Wormtail, I believe, but how did he get it? Surely Ministry Wizards would have snapped it when they found him.

[mr_pikachu]

Unfortunately, I don't have the book with me, so I can't say for certain. I think it may have been something along the lines of "The Ministry of Magic can't find everything, haha, pwned," or something along those same lines (that is, of the Ministry being incompetent, which is probably true). But I'm not sure, since I can't look it up.

About the theory, I suppose the second step would be to find a suitable replacement to kill Voldemort. I was considering Ginny, since that's the first real love interest that's been sparked with Harry. (I'm not counting Cho; she was clearly on the rebound, and I'm not sure Harry really liked her that much. Heck, Cho cried about Cedric straight through their first kiss!) Other alternatives could be Ron or Hermione, for obvious reasons. If one of them ends up biting the dust a la Dumbledore during the horcrux hunts, then perhaps whoever is left would be the reasonable alternative.

As I said, though, it's only a theory. Frankly, Rowling will probably let Harry live, just so she can sleep without worrying about some crazed fan stabbing her in the night. Or kidnapping her and forcing her to bring Harry back in another book. (I saw that last one in a movie at some point, but I can't remember the title.) That and the whole popularity thing. I just think it'd be interesting.

[The Decapitated Mole]

Unfortunately, the flaw in that theory is that Voldemort was intending to kill Harry, which would make it pretty foolish to make him the horcrux, and as voldemort was nearly destroyed when he tried to kill Harry, he would have been unable to create a horcrux within him. I still think she's going to kill off Harry, and I wouldn't mind that too much, but if she kills Ron or Hermione I'm going to be pretty pissed.

As to the story of Voldemort's wand.. who knows? Maybe he posessed some animal or wizard and was able to get it to some place of hiding so he could wait until he was able to hold a wand again, maybe there was no thorough search of the house and it was just left there, maybe one of the ministry wizards found it and kept it as a souvenir. It's never explained, and I'm pretty sure of that because I'm halfway through book 5 right now after deciding to re-read the entire series a little while ago, and I can't remember seeing anything like that.. Ah well.

o_0
jimm

[Weasel Overlord]

Ah, I did enjoy that book...muttermutterreaditinthreehoursmutter...I know! ¬¬ I'm a freak...thanks for noticing...

Anyway, why haven't there been more discussions on whether Snape is really evil??? *can't believe nasty things of Alan Rickman* Like, in depth analysis of his exact words and their meanings! I believe I espied something mentioning the Unbreakable Vow...in 'Spinner's Lane', he hesitates before finalising the vow, as if he didn't want to have to kill Dumbly...and... gah! I'm bored of this argument now...

For his wand, wouldn't Pettigrew have gone back for it? Oh wait, he ran like a coward, didn't he? Never mind about that then...

I love the theory that Harry would have to kill himself...it's just so dramatic and tragic! Although, I think she's had him being the tragic hero too much...he has no guardians left, after all...*sob* poor Sirius...and I think the fans would be SO vengeful...there'd be 10 year olds growing up with this utter hatred for Rowling until she found them hiding under her stairs one day, brandishing sharpened copies of book 7...
anyone read Stephen King's Dark Tower? The ending for that is so freaking awful...its ACE in literary terms, but for the casual reader, its HELL! At the end he mentioned how much hate mail he's gonna get...I think it'd be the same for Rowling.

I still nurse a grudge against her for killing Sirius...*cradles rocket launcher* Soon my pretty...soon...

Another point before I glide away...its gonna be TWO YEARS BEFORE BOOK 7 IS OUT!! Oh mY God!! Is anyone else having withdrawal symptoms about that??

[mr_pikachu]

No, I've never read the Dark Tower series. I've heard it's good, though.

And it's going to be two years? Where'd you hear that?

[Zak]

Only two years?

I'd have expected a lot later, especially with her baby now. The wait for the 5th book, I believe was four years. Two years is nothing, now it seems like only yesterday when I was getting the 5th book.


~Zak

[Weasel Overlord]

It was on some site...I can't remember which...and I know, two years isn't that bad when there was a gap of about five between each of the Dark Tower books...I just keep going back to them, don't I???

It wasn't four years for book five was it? Woah...surely not...I thought it was about two (ish)...

[Magmar]

Why would Snape end up being good? I thought Harry was the hero. This world seems to revolve around Harry an awful lot..

[Systematic Revolution]

If Harry dies, that'll just have to be that. Naturally his scar is a prime candidate to be a horcrux

Thank you! I brought this theory up to my mom when she finished the book several weeks ago. I think it's a definite possibility. But what about the invisibility cloak?

If that's already been brought up, sorry. I'll read the rest of the topic now...

[Weasel Overlord]

I don't think that Harry's scar can be a Horcrux...they're made when Voldy does an important killing, although he had just killed Lily and James...

Maybe he wanted to make Harry the final one, but he didn't end up killing him, the curse rebounded on himself instead, so foiling his plans for the final Horcrux...

[Systematic Revolution]

I visited a website that really did convince me Dumbledore is alive. I won't bother with every detail, but these are the basics:

-When most people are hit with Avada Kedavra, they slump into the ground instantly. Dumbledore, meanwhile, was thrown upwards and down the side of the castle. It is possible Snape used a silent spell to disguise what he really was doing.

-Bellatrix told Harry in OOPT that "You can't use an Unforgiveable if you don't mean it." If Snape was indeed loyal to Dumbledore, and had to adhere to the unbreakable vow, then would he have the power to kill Dumbledore? If not, his attack could simply injure Dumbledore.

-At the funeral, Dumbledore was wrapped up. We did not see his body.

-When the body was laid down, it burst into flame without anybody using a spell. Could it have been Fawkes inside the cloths that burst into flame? Harry did mention something like that....or something.

-If Dumbledore was simply injured by the curse, then Fawkes Lament during the whole chapter could have been healing them, since their tears have healing powers. Madem Pomfrey was the one who at once recognized the phoenix song...could it be that, as a healer, she knew Fawkes was crying to help Dumbledore? (Not so sure on this one).

-Snape faking to kill Dumbledore may have been what their argument was about, in which Snape said he wouldn't do it.

-By doing this Dumbledore could have lured Voldemort into a false sense of security.


This is all off a website so...discuss. I'm 50% convinced myself. There are more. I think it's Dumbledoresnotdead.com or something.

What's sad is that I would LOVE to denounce this theory, but I find myself unable to do so...

If I'm not mistaken, Fawkes can do a teleportation type thing, the result of which are flames... Well if Dumbledore really ISN'T dead, it would be logical to assume that Fawkes transported him elsewhere.. Very interesting theory. Not ENTIRELY ridiculous...

[Zak]

That, and I can't believe that person forgot to mention the fact that Fawkes isn't dead. At least, he didn't seem to be for the last couple chapters, and I don't remember him dying after singing the lament.
But the point is, in Fantastic Beasts, it's mentioned that a phoenix only dies when it's owner dies. And Fawkes isn't dead yet. Hm.


~Zak

[Weasel Overlord]

I remember reading that...hrrm...although, if Dumbly wasn't dead, then why would his portrait be in the Headmaster's office?? Unless it's just a ploy...hrrm...what an interesting theory!

[Systematic Revolution]

I remember reading that...hrrm...although, if Dumbly wasn't dead, then why would his portrait be in the Headmaster's office?? Unless it's just a ploy...hrrm...what an interesting theory!

There are several flaws to the theory... I just read the entire site. It's pretty convincing, but I'm still not entirely sure. It could be that Dumbledore resigned his position prior to the night's events, therefore making McGonagal the headmistress. The books never said that the headmaster/mistress had to DIE for the second-in-command to take over.

But I don't know. It's definitely a substantial theory. It's not all stretching and pure speculation like the Black theories were. There wasn't, to my knowledge, any REAL evidence that suggested Black didn't die. But there is quite a bit of evidence suggesting that Dumbledore could still be alive.

Only JK Rowling knows, though...

[Systematic Revolution]

That, and I can't believe that person forgot to mention the fact that Fawkes isn't dead. At least, he didn't seem to be for the last couple chapters, and I don't remember him dying after singing the lament.
But the point is, in Fantastic Beasts, it's mentioned that a phoenix only dies when it's owner dies. And Fawkes isn't dead yet. Hm.

Damn, you could DEFINITELY have something there. We don't know that Fawkes is dead.. hmm...

[Weasel Overlord]

Poor fooly Harry! If only he'd have looked in the mirror he'd never had believed smelly Kreacher and Sirius wouldn't have died....*sob* Bloody Rowling! *shakes fist* Always slaughtering my favourite characters!!

I dunno though...it's all a bit wishful thinking, really...