Battle Frontier - Please share your thoughts

[RaZoR LeAf]

OK People, Chris and I have been chatting and we've come up with some ideas we think would be best to bounce of you first. Now in the ASB of Old, there were Gym Leaders. You'd challenge them, and if you won, you'd get a Medallion, and a special TM. Of course since Sig moves have been done away with, a TM is out of the question. But instead of Gym Leaders, what about the Battle Frontier?

If you're not familiar with Pokemon Emerald (like myself, so bare with me if I make an error here), it's a series of battles like a mixture of Gyms and Tournaments, with seven individual frontier brains, each with specific ways of battling. Now we've had a few ideas about this, so i'll knock out the main two for you to comment on.

Idea One

The brains are represented for the time being by myself and Chris. Anyone can challenge the Brains, and if they win, they receive a medal representing that brain. They are required to collect all seven medals before they challenge a brain for a title match. If they win, they take on the title themselves and become a Frontier Brain.

Idea Two

A mini tournament is held for each brain. A series of short rounds is run to determine a person who reaches the brain at the end. Now in Emerald, each Brain has a particular style of battling, or a certain way of reaching them. These will be dictated in the tournament.

At the end of the tournament, the last remaining battler fights the Brain, who will be represented by myself or Chris. Should that person win, they will take on the title of the Brain. Then, battles in the future follow the same as before, with a person requiring all 7 victory medals before they can challenge a brain to a title match..


Now, there's a lot left to be decided. If this gets all sorted out, and it works, then we may petition for a Battle Frontier Subforum, and have the archive moved to where all the other archives are located (which is at the bottom of the main forum) after all that would be four sub forums and we don't want to look greedy >.> <.<

But what we really need now is feedback. Absolutely anything you have to say on this subject even if it's just "Chris, Dan.. this idea sucks". So please. Provide.

[Darth Skrusti]

A Battle Frontier is certainly a good idea, especially since the doing-away of Sig Moves. (That's the one thing expected from Gym Battles...A TM.)

Although, if you wanted to be *really* sneaky and still have TMs, you could have them for moves a Pokémon might not actually learn, but could perform. (Rapidash using E-Quake, Gyrados using Aerial Ace, etc.) To the best of their abilities.

I think that the best way to select the Frontier Brains is through a Tournament. However, there's a drawback to this. People who have been here longer and have evolved/stronger Pokémon would most certainly get all the spots.

This shouldn't be the case. Even the first few gyms were "easy" to beat.

I think that there should be 1-2 Frontier Brains kept open for those who have weaker/nonevolved Pokémon. The 'Newbies' if you will. This would give an even, fair chance to participate. If you wish to apply for a Frontier Brain tournament, then you can choose *which* position you are applying to. Nonevolved/weaker or Evolved/Stronger.

Weak Pokémon could include Babies, weak-stated Pokémon from the games, etc.

Strong Pokémon could include strong-stated Pokémon (Dratini, Larvitar, Beldum, etc.) and no-Evolution Pogies with good movepools/type combos.

Yeah, I want a chance at becoming a Brain myself >.O *twitch twitch*

All in all, its a good idea. If you're confused by my suggestion, please tell me >.< I'll try and put it into a more simple format then.

[Andrew]

I think with each kind of thing, you'd need a ref or rather "Narrator" who'd organize the game. For example, making it a tad RPGish.

For example with the Pyramid.

"I'm Sexy Sexy Sydney! I'm taking in my Drowzee, Furret and Magneton in with me to the Pyramid"

"Sydney, you enter the VERY dark Pyramid with a small lantern that doesn't illuminate much at ALL and walk straight ahead till you walk straight into the wall. Do you want to follow the wall left or right?"

"I want to go right!"

"Keeping your left arm touching the wall you walk around and you run into a trainer! Its a lost and confused old man. He seems perhaps... afflicted by dementia... wait, he's pulled out a Pokemon and has released a Seel. Do you run or fight him?"

"Oh! Dear! Old men! I release Drowzee to fight the battle! Drowzee, I want you to use Psychic to flink Seel into the wall, then, use a quick Thunderbolt and finish off with Metronome"

"Sexy X2 Sydney
Dreary Drowzee (m) - 100%
100% Energy

Gereatric old man
Seel (M) 100%
100% Energy

Drowzee squints in the lack of light, but makes out a shape of the purely white Seel fairly easily, and concentrates on levitating it into the wall with a sickening SCHMACK! Seel however after some garbled instruction has fired off a colourful beam of Auroraish power! Wincing with pain, Drowzee goes forward and electrifies its foe.

Seel squeals in pain, before running forward as fast as its pudgy little self could trying to impale Drowzee with its horn. However, Seel doesn't go very fast in the sand.. Drowzee easily avoids it, however, the bubblebeam hits Drowzee as its preparing its Metronome. Drowzee's eyes flicker and in a flash, a tornado of fire comes from its snout, ensnaring Seel.

Drowzee's Stats

Seel's Stats"

"Do this! ANd that!"

"More battling"

Basically, every time you battle someone, your lantern gets stronger and you can see further. You have to battle and defeat 5 pokemon with your chosen 3. In between battles, however, you can choose to run away and try find someone with an easier Pokemon, or find a recovery item. However, after each battle your Pokemon's stats stay the same, only their energy increases for each battle. You can increase health with recovery items you find though. After 5 Pokemon, you battle the Brain fully healthy.

With the tube one, that'd be similar too...

The Tournament one would be also, similar... except with less tournmenting and rpging...

[Chris 2.1]

We felt the game version of the facilities, like the one you mentioned, would take too long for each person to get through. The part of the Frontier we want to bring to ASB is the battling element. Some of them are similar to the game ones and some are much more tweaked.

We kinda have a lot of it sorted out so what we really wanted to know was which of the two ideas you'd prefer to see implimented from Dan's post.

[Vermillion]

I choose Idea 2...no elbaorate reasons...just a choice..

[Chris Watarimono]

Idea #2 would work out better than Ideal #1 simply it involves some kind of reward from the ASB Tourney. As far as the brains themselves are concerned, I agree to base them off the battling styles of the brains in-game as well as some kind of fusion with the "puzzle" in the brain's stage so that they become original and challenging.

Furthermore, the frontier brains should be able to get a bonus ability they can activiate in battle, such as immunity to Water attacks, ability to call back and send out Pokemon at will, able to shape the environment, and the like. Sure, it'd make the battle all the more difficult, but they're worthy wins all the same and it gives much value to the brain medal.

And I'm not if we need a subforum for the Battle Frontier - we could just use Business and Tournaments, but that's just me.

-Chris R.

EDIT: Oh, one more thing. The points we get from battling could be used to help give you the said "bonuses" and additions to your arena, so that they don't just pile up and inflate all over.

[The Blue Avenger]

Okay, here are my thoughts. I think that the Battle Frontier should be kept as close as possible when possible to the Emerald version. For example:

Battle Factory
You and the brain both have a random team of Pokemon, decided by the ref. However, the difference is that you can have unevolved Pokemon, while the brain will only have final-stage ones.

Battle Arena
The battle between challenger and brain lasts three rounds. The ref, at the end of the three rounds, will grade each Pokemon based on how many attacking moves they used, how many were super effective and hit, and how much health the Pokemon have. The person with the higher overall grades win.

Battle Pyramid
This would be difficult to implement, due to its structure in the games. My best alternative would to be a normal battle with darkness implemented in some way.

Battle Tower
This would act just like the Gym Leaders of old.

Battle Dome
This could be a tournament held every so often, like the one we're having now. The winner challenges the Dome Brain.

Battle Palace
This would be difficult. Perhaps, before battle, each trainer would say whether their Pokemon likes to attack, defend, is average, likes to be sneaky... I dunno. And then the ref would write the battle.

Battle Pike
Again, this would be difficult. I actually have no clue what to do for it.


With all that said, I would choose a mix of option one and two. You and Chris would initally be all of the Brains. Then, as you're defeated, other people would take over. However, no tournament, as that's covered in the Dome.

[Chris 2.1]

Thanks for the feedback, but we do have ideas implemented for 6 of the 7 facilities, the only one left being the Palace. Ideas are being thought out, though.

Basically guys, what we'd like is which idea you think would work better (see first post), because you'll be the ones fighting the Brains, not us. If we could have a lot of feedback that would be great. We have 6/7 of the Facilities sorted, so perhaps if you could tell us which idea you like better, we could plan out the Frontier for 2006.

If you're indifferent, or hate both, we'd like to know that, too.


Thanks guys.

[MeLoVeGhOsTs]

I'd say number two. Ever read 'Pokemonese' by Dark Sage? Well before his hero can acces the last two Gym Badges he has to go through a tournament. The winner receiving [enter something] and getting acces. This should be the case for the Frontier IMO. Like have a 4 or 8 person tourment every [enter number] days/weeks. Meaning that people will have to try and win very hard, because otherwise they have to wait until the next tournament. Resolving the fact that getting to face a Brain is rather remarkable, as I think it should be.

[Ultimate Charizard]

Id say go for #2.
Looking forward to trying out myself and it avoids any sort of suspicions on the part of who gets what spot. If they fight for it, then its theirs.
Now my only problem is am i good enough to win a spot lol.

[Chris 2.1]

Its not looking likely at all. People found the idea to be an alternate Gym Leader setup and would prefer GLs to the BF. Obviously the BF is temporay and for a few months, but the GLs would be permenant I suppose. I don't think there are plans to implement either yet.

[Ultimate Charizard]

Sorry lol, every now and then i start looking around the boards and reply to random posts. Didnt realise this hadnt been posted in since January.

I dont see why Gym Leaders cant be included though. If there are only 8 for example. Bring Sig moves back as rewards (again, there would only be 8 to deal with) and if anyone beats them all they can either challenge to replace one of the Gym Leaders or simply get a Prize. (Free Evo or 2?)
Wouldnt be hard to do other than picking the Gym Leaders.

[Chris 2.1]

I didnt say it wasn't hard to do, I said there were no plans to do it just yet. We've got a Tournament underway and a second, smaller scale one is commencing from July 1st. Added to that the Grand Festival and we're quite busy.

[Ultimate Charizard]

Fair enough, just shooting my mouth off again lol.

[Dark Dragonite]

rather than "picking" GLs, I would prefer a huge(and I mean all ASB) Tourney to pick GLs, the top 8(or however many GLs we want) get the job, and I like the idea that they are replaceable, maybe after they have been beaten 2 or 3 times.

I don't like the idea of sigs, they went nuts, and some horrible ones sneaked by the approval stage...I.E. Don't Run With Scizors's Unown's sig that brought legendaries into the battle...granted I beat it with a snubble, but it was rediculous.

[Ultimate Charizard]

Well thats why i said it should be Sigs that are won. Ie the 8 Gym Leaders (or whoever) gets together and works out a bunch of good, but not overpowered Sigs that can be given as a reward and applied to 1 Pokemon. It stops the ASB being flooded with lots of over the top moves. 8 in the whole ASB (with another added every so often with new GL's) isnt as bad as 1 for every pokemon in ASB.

[Dark Dragonite]

oh, ok, like how they had special TMs to be won, I didn't understand that before, that I can live with.

[Chris 2.1]

Sig moves: not happening, even for GLs. We do like the idea of TMs of rare moves (such as Megahorn or Heal Bell) being available for beating a GL. Obviously we'd have a list of which Pokemon could learn said TM in the TPML ASB. A Tournament is a good idea for selecting GLs.

But we'll see towards the future

[Dark Dragonite]

that's a good idea too.
If I ever was a GL, you know I'd be the Chansey move TM, like Heal Bell, or Aromatherapy, lol

[Andrew]

How about we comprise a table of all wins/losses/draws in ASB and well, pick the top 8 from there?

[Ultimate Charizard]

Because most of those people will be the ones that have been here longest and simply have more Responsibility already.
Not to mention the nature of the Wins/Draws/Losses isnt really fair.

For Example, someone who has been around with say 15 wins and 16 losses has a worse record than my current 1 win, 1 loss. If you do it on wins, then its simply whos been here longest and had the most battles.
Also not to blow my own trumpet but there are a number of 'veterans' (players from before the restart, i heard the term being thrown around) such as myself who dont have a good record now but would feel a little left out if its simply picked on whos been around longest to build up the best record.

I really dont want to sound selfish or petty in this. Yes id love to try out as gym Leader but lets do it fairly. If im beaten in a tournament then So be it. Just means ill have to get in line to take them on again, and this time it would be for a badge.

[Dark Dragonite]

yeah, I'm 2-1-0 right now, but before the restart I was 19-5-1...so, if you counted the old records, I am pretty sure I'd be a GL...I'd rather battle for it too.

[Chris 2.1]

Dont forget I might have a worse record if I was to simply challange veterans like Ultimate Charizard and Grey than if I was clever/cruel/take your pick enough to challange new people to the ASB.

I suppose Gym Leader convo can be talked about here, the main ASB Rules Thread of the CCC.

[Ultimate Charizard]

I havent taken part in a tourney for a long while. I tend to throw open challenges when i have a free slot. Whover takes me up gets the battle. But theres something more satisfying about fighting someone challenging who's earned their spot.
In the meantime i need to get some points earned. What kinda gym leader would i be without even 1 Evolved Pokemon? Gotta get me my Charizard lol.

[Hatake Kakashi]

That's another problem. The teams being a team of whatever 6 you can slap together that are your strongest isn't what a gym leader did. Nor was it having all fully evolved Pokemon.

The old gym leader battles took ages to complete, and the Gym Leader rarely lost(Unless it was Charnumber vs a Gym leader with Cyrus reffing Vets know what I mean )

Gym leaders were supposed to be rather easy to take down. At the very least dedicated to one type.

[Dark Dragonite]

I'm dedicated to ghosts and normals, lol...

I remember cyrus also...

the difference is, gym leaders don't lose their position by losing, here, they would...

[Andrew]

Lol. Charnumber and cyrus never lost when they were reffing eachother's matches. Coincidence lol. Not! oh and imp deliberately stopped posting in my gym match when i was kicking his ass. I also think having an elite 4 instead of 8 is a good idea. Just pick the best 4 from a new. tourney. Plus i think having a tables standing is a good idea. I want to know how i rank...

[Andrew]

Oh and the elite 4 need to be re-evaluated yearly.

[Dark Dragonite]

Here's another idea that could get thrown into the mix... in the tourney that would decide any GL/E4, you don't use your own team, but a team is given to you to borrow, like when Ash got Arbok and Weezing(or was it ekans and Koffing) and Meowth in that long ago episode...

The reason for doing this: takes people out of their comfort zone...no, no magikarps or anything, but say like I am dead set on using Chansey and KKahn, I pwn with them, so giving me a Snorlax and Ursaring would throw me into having to learn about them, afterall, shouldn't GLs/E4 be the most knowledgeable?

[Ace64]

Sounds like the random Poke tourney I remember Andrew suggesting before...I like the idea. Especially since I remember UC saying that everyone picks Pokemon with the best movesets. I've got a Delibird, and it's tough battling with her, but you've got to get creative with it.

As for rank, I'm against it, but maybe that's because I'm a newbie.

[Ultimate Charizard]

Battles using 2/3 random pokemon picked in the same way the egg center is picked. (ie random number generator by whoevers in charge)

When it comes to the Gym battles perhaps the Gym pokemon could come with the Job. When one Gym Leader leaves they leave the pokemon behind and the new Leader takes over with whatever state theyre in. The Gym Starts with 6 'appropriate' pokemon and for each Gym win they get an evo or add a pokemon to the gym.

So for example, If the Fire Gym Started up with: Magby, Charmander, Growlithe, Torchic, Torkoal and Vulpix.
The leader wins 3 times, then is challenged for the Gym rather than a badge (a certain special event would be needed). If he loses they could be leaving the gym in whatever situation it currently is so the new Gym leader receives Growlithe, Torchic, Torkoal and Vulpix as they were. Magmar and Charmeleon as Evo's and a new capture, for sake of argument lets say Slugma.
Or as a last thanks for the Gym leader they can pick one pokemon to take with them. A G/L's own pokemon shouldnt be able to be used.

Also i would suggest 9 Gyms, with an 8 Badge requirement for the Elite tourney since the Gym Leaders obviously cant fight themselves.

[Dark Dragonite]

I wouldn't mind having pokemon only used by GLs that are separate, and cannot be used in normal matches...
How about this too:

1)Even if a GL is ousted, he gets the badge he was protecting(maybe if he/she stays for a battle or two)
2)When a GL is ousted, he gets to keep one of the pokemon he used.

[Ultimate Charizard]

Yeah thats the simple gist of my post lol.

Have a set Gym Team that is passed on to whoever is in charge of the Gym with a reward for the Departing Gym Leader.

[Andrew]

I love that idea. I even came up with Pokemon that the gym is to start with! For EVERY TYPE while I worked. Cause I was bored. I tried to make it even.

HOWEVER saying that, I feel, that if a Gym Leader has for example a Grass Gym, they have the gym Pokemon to call upon, but they're also allowed to throw any grass pokemon they own into the mix.

[Ultimate Charizard]

Well that could be ok but then if the Gym Leaders are able to evolve and add to the Gym team from Gym battles, theyd more than likely do this to their own pokemon. And the gym teams wouldnt progress.

[Dark Dragonite]

UNLESS, there was a mandatory rule, if you win a gym battle, you can only capture, or evolve a gym pokemon, not your own, as in, do your own with your own time...

Oh, and what do people think about an Eeveelution Gym? ROFL, I know, I just know an eeveelution hater, hehe...

[Ultimate Charizard]

I think Gyms other than the usual types would be interesting. I know its possible to cover most type advantages and a Water pokemon isnt guaranteed to wipe out a Fire Gym etc but it could make things more interesting.
For example in ASB they are discussing a gym system where specific situations are in mind. Such as 'Hell Gym' which is Fire and Dark types. An Eeveelution or Starter Gym would be cool too.
Starters for example would be able to cover multiple types. Off the top of my head youd have combinations of....Electric, Fire, Grass, Ground, Fighting, Poison, and Flying.

[Chris 2.1]

Dibs on Kanto Starters Gym

I think when/if/when we sort GLs out we'll pick some good themed gyms. Some from discussions here and some from our own brainstorms.

[Andrew]

Yes, but this is Anime Style Battling are there "Eevee Gyms" and thank god No there isn't... As fun as it would be to have that, there's quite a lot of diversity in most of the types already... take for example Psychic, there's Psychic+Water/Flying/Fighting/Normal/Grass/Rock/Ground/Steel.

I think stick to type Gyms... *Shrug*

[Dark Dragonite]

yes, but not all types have branched out that much, not that I mind, I mean, in Emerald, I wiped the floor with the Psychic gym using Sableye, and Shedinja, both in the Lv 20 range...

Plus, there really wasn't a Ghost type gym that I remember either, but it would make things interesting...as would a Bug gym.

If your logic is there was no (insert type) Gym here, then we could also argue there were no points, or approval tower in the anime or games, but ASB has a personality all it's own, we used to have sigs too, it can't be just like the Anime or games.

I think it should be open, to haqve original gyms, not just Fire, Water, Grass, Electric, etc...