World of Warcraft: Take 2

[Razola]

Sprint twice means she was either a prep rogue or she might have gotten a sprint power-up which makes you go 100% faster (epic mount speed).

Try not to jump to conclusions.

[Last Exile]

Just won Onyxia Hide Backpack in tonight's run with a roll of 99. I haven't rolled that high in 2.5 months. Means I finally jsut enough room in my bags and my bank (Me = 1 18 and 4 16s, Bank = 1 20 and 3 16s). So stoked I finally won s omething on a roll.

[Charizard04621]

Raz - That was my instinct, too, until I saw that Yero mentioned it was a warlock. In which case there still is an explanation.

The Sprint powerup is really close to the flag inside the base... And there's such a thing as a Swiftness Potion, which does basically the same thing as Sprint. 50% run speed, but unless you had Rogues Sprinting after her after the 100% powerup's effect wore out, you really can't tell the difference. Swiftness Potion has a cooldown, though, so it's not immediately useable all the time.

Last Exile - You poor, unlucky soul =P I've rolled three 100s in the past month. When I was on my alt running Shadowfang Keep, I kept winning stuff -_- People thought I was a roll hacker because I'd won like, 7 our of 8 rolls. It annoyed me so much (I was running out of bag space; hunters never have much room) that I just stopped rolling, lol. And then, at the end, I rolled on something Arugal dropped and got 100. Er. =/ See, I wish I had that luck on my Rogue instead.

[Yero Thropp]

Sprint twice means she was either a prep rogue or she might have gotten a sprint power-up which makes you go 100% faster (epic mount speed).

Try not to jump to conclusions.

As Charizard pointed out, she wasn't a rogue, she was a warlock... also, she was moving so fast she had our flag and was already out and down the middle of the field before we'd even left the building... it was so fast we couldn't even get a lock on her. Also, the sprint lasted the entire game, not just a quick sprint. Don't worry, we didn't jump to conclusions at first... we were going to report her at first because she spawned at the beginning of the game in our base (obvious hack.) The sprint just made her look more like a complete imbecile.

Something really funny about that game: I stayed on defense once, and Traces (the warlock) came flying in so fast she ended up running right into the corner where the flag was. I think she was having trouble getting the flag because she was glitching all over the place; I finally got a lock on her and started slicing away while she just stood there and took it. She was so confident that once she took the flag she could outrun me that she completely ignored the fact that I was telling everyone else that I had Traces cornered in the flag room. Once she did finally get the flag and ran out (with very, very little health left,) we had the place surrounded. GG noob.

You don't have to tell me about not jumping to conclusions :biggrin: I learned the hard way; I hate it when people make judgements about me and my personality online before they even know me.

[Charizard04621]

I am saddened by the stupidity of unfortunate people like these.

[Last Exile]

There's worse. Forag has gone missing from Arathi Basin as have several mebers of the Lords of Death guild (Horde) on Blackrock. Clearly they didn't learn from the MANY warnings GMs sent after close to a hundred Alliance players lodged tickets about their fence-jumping ploys. Anyone who thinks they can cheat over and over and doesn't give a stuff ought to be banned for life. I don't have time for scum like that. Play properly and with skill or don't even bother. The whole thrill of Arathi Basin is that it's usually close, it's fast and furious and it requires a lot of strategy and communication to get you over the line.

And here's the spec I'm planning for my rogue:

Assassination - 21 points

Malice 5/5
Improved Eviscerate 3/3
Murder 2/2
Lethality 5/5
Vile Poisons 5/5
Cold Blood 1/1

Combat - 30 points

Improved Sinister Strike 2/2
Lightning Reflexes 5/5
Deflection 5/5
Precision 5/5
Riposte 1/1
Improved Kick 2/2
Dual Wield Specialisation 5/5
Aggression 5/5

[PNT510]

[b]I've been playing a Druid alot lately and I was looking at have these for the talents. I know you've played a Druid alot Last Exile so any tips or suggestions you have would be great. I mainly wanna do PVP, but a healer in parties if I need to.

Balance - 11 points

Nature's Grasp 1/1
Improved Nature's Grasp 4/4
Natural Weapons 5/5
Omen of Clarit 1/1

Feral Combat - 31 points

Ferocity 5/5
Feral Instinct 3/5
Brutal Impact 2/2
Feline Swiftness 2/2
Feral Charge 1/1
Sharpened Claws 3/3
Predatory Strikes 3/3
Blood Frenzy 2/2
Primal Fury 2/2
Savage Fury 2/2
Heart of the Wild 5/5
Leader of the Pack 1/1

Restoration - 9 points

Furor 5/5
Nature's Focus 4/5

[Red Angel]

[b]I've been playing a Druid alot lately and I was looking at have these for the talents. I know you've played a Druid alot Last Exile so any tips or suggestions you have would be great. I mainly wanna do PVP, but a healer in parties if I need to.

Balance - 11 points

Nature's Grasp 1/1
Improved Nature's Grasp 4/4
Natural Weapons 5/5
Omen of Clarit 1/1

Feral Combat - 31 points

Ferocity 5/5
Feral Instinct 3/5
Brutal Impact 2/2
Feline Swiftness 2/2
Feral Charge 1/1
Sharpened Claws 3/3
Predatory Strikes 3/3
Blood Frenzy 2/2
Primal Fury 2/2
Savage Fury 2/2
Heart of the Wild 5/5
Leader of the Pack 1/1

Restoration - 9 points

Furor 5/5
Nature's Focus 4/5

I like that build a fair bit - it's very PvP-oriented. If you want to be better at healing groups, you could drop the balance portion entirely (and LotP) for more resto up to Nature's Swiftness. Heart of the Wild and OOC may give you all the healing power you need, though. I jumped from 5.5k to 6.5k mana when I tried HotW on test.

I'm very temped to respec to 0/30/21 myself, but I'd miss Nature's Grasp a lot. Any idea how much of a bonus HotW will give to 3700 mana? I'd think it would be 4440, but I don't know if all your mana comes from INT or if you get a "base" mana pool. And the 15G (I think) it would cost me to respec would be too much right now, after dropping all that cash on my epic. It's oh-so-worth it

[Razola]

It's whatever int you have. Therefore any +mana effects (like +100 mana to chest enchant) are not affected.

[Last Exile]

HotW is affected by potions, buffs and gear. The better you get, the higher int. My int with full raid buffs in MC is 7624.

My talents points go like this:

Feral Combat Talents - 30 points
Ferocity rank 5/5
Improved Hide 5/5
Brutal Impact rank 2/2
Feline Swiftness rank 2/2
Feral Charge rank 1/1
Sharpened Claws rank 3/3
Primal Fury 2/2
Predatory Strikes 3/3
Savage Fury 2/2
Heart of the Wild 5/5

Restoration Talents - 21 points
Improved Mark of the Wild rank 5/5
Furor rank 5/5
Improved Healing Touch rank 5/5
Improved Enrage rank 2/2
Reflection rank 3/3
Nature's Swiftness rank 1/1

Heart of the Wild is such a gift. Plus Predatory Strikes give druids some reasonable attack power. Primal Fury helps keep the rage up. I'm not missing Innervate too much but Nature's Swiftness is as essential as ever.

[Red Angel]

I hope you mean 7624 mana, Last Exile And why no Feral Faerie Fire of Insect Swarm? Feral Fire in particular is huge.

I'm resisting the temptation to spec some form of 30/21. How do you all fare without Nature's Grasp, especially trying to heal others in PvP?

[Razola]

If I go all-out, I can get 991 Attack Power with 21% crit. Though I usally hang around 932 with 23% crit.

[Last Exile]

You stand as far behind as you can, Red Angel. From my experience, people only go for the frontline. So stay back, out of sight in ahouse or bushes or against a wall if u can and do ur stuff. People will back you up for healing. Rogues and Warriros are the problem. Nature's Grasp, well, I never liked it much. I prefer faster healing, having Nature's Swfitness to see an enemy's damage go to woe and Heart of the Wild for increasingly buff stats as you get better gear.

I got Fireproof Cloak in MC tonight from Domo's cache (54 armour, +12 sta, +9 Int, +8 spi, +18 Fire Resistance), we owned him good with just 35 people. My mana pool is up to 7819 with raid buffs and I really needed that Fire Resistance.

[Charizard04621]

Question, if you've got feral gear for your druid, rogues and warriors shouldn't be a problem, should they? You never have to leave bear form, if you've got a backup healer both of you will never die... Feral gear bear has more armor and hp than a warrior at the same level (well, I guess it depends on the quality of your gear). I am a rogue and I tried so many times to kill this stupid druid, with stuns, whatever, everything, and it simply does not work. I can't do enough damage to him no matter what, he doesn't even leave bear form, and by the time everyone gets from the other side of the field to save him, I've taken down maybe 1/2 his life. >< This is WSG though, I guess AV is larger.

[Razola]

With a priest to provide a buff, I have over 7,000 hp and 9,000 armor in bearform.

Oh, and Nature's Grasp doesn't use up the diminishing returns on roots. And since I need points to get Omen of Clarity...yup.

[Last Exile]

1v1, I can beat warriors no problem. Duelled 2 of the best warriors in my guild tonight and suprised a lot of people by beating them. For Warriors, you cast Entangling Roots over and over, using Faerie Fire and Moonfire as you burns and Wrath as your damage.

Rogues are the Druid's worst enemy. It doesn't matter what form you're in against a Rogue. A good Rogue will keep you in a continual stun lock then Sinister Strike and Eviscerate you for an easy win. Only way to beat them is same start as for Warriors, but if the ROgue gets a stun or major poison off, you're in big trouble. Plus their Improved Kick really messes you up with 10 sec cooldown for heals and 2 sec silence.

[Razola]

Only problem I have is Prep build warriors. Hemo and Expose Armor pretty much nullify bear enough to be very noticeable. Otherwise my damage output and armor is too much against your average rogues. Experienced ones with great gear can definitely put up a hell of a fight, but nothing "unbeatable".

[Charizard04621]

Last Exile - Like I said, I don't get killed by the Druid, I get killed by his friends. >< I can live forever 1v1 against him, but I can't do any damn damage versus feral druids with good feral gear. I can have him stunned forever, I can have poisons, it does not matter at all. The time it takes to kill a feral-equipped druid is like... Way longer than the time it takes for a dead person to resurrect after 30 seconds and then run all the way from one end of the base to the other. If a healer is with him, it's over.

Not all Rogues go Combat, Imp Kick is like halfway down the tree, so unreachable if Rogues go Prep + Cold Blood (which most do from the ones I've seen).

Oh, I got my very first boe epic the other day running Sunken Temple. ^_^ It's a low level one, but hey. My warrior guildmate rolled 100 on it and still gave it to me for free. I was like... OMFG THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! Heh. He would only have gotten around 50g for Bloodrazor (I was going to use it), but still, it was amazingly generous.

Raz if you can explain to me how I can format the screenshots so I can upload them, I can put one up with my glowing enchants. :)

[Last Exile]

That I do agree with, Char. If someone else does heal a Druid, they become very hard to take down. But 1v1 you need to jump them before they shapeshift and just focus on stuns and silence in between your damage hits. Hit a Druid in their normal form and they're a piece of meat. That's the key.

[Razola]

5/8 Cenarion, and I secured my Stormrage Cover.

Now I just need to work on my PvP rank. Currently at Stone Guard, and hoping to hit Blood Guard tomorrow.

[Charizard04621]

Last Exile - Oh, you mean regular PvP. I was thinking about duels and BG. See, I don't really care for jumping people while they're being attacked by mobs (unlike many alliance Rogues on my server, one of which was 3 levels higher than us, had to bring in two lv60 friends, and all still died 2v3). I only jump somebody in that situation if he/she did something to piss me off, or if one of his/her friends gave me cause for grief. I only do gay things for revenge, I have a high sense of honor otherwise. You're right, though, if I jump caster form it's gonna die pretty fast since I'll never let it move.

Anyway. In a duel and in BG (I believe), druid's not gonna be in caster form unless it requires healing. I don't know about AV, but in WSG, which I play the most often, I rarely see druids in caster form just waiting around for a rogue to sap/cheap shot/whatever them. And, of course, in duels, a druid would be silly not to shapeshift against a rogue before the thing started since they get so much advanced warning.

And like I said, Combat rogues are kinda rare, Improved Kick is halfway down the tree so you don't always have the option to silence a druid. I have seen a few go assass/combat though, so I guess it really depends on your luck whether you can get silenced or not. Two seconds of silence isn't really fun against a rogue, is it? =P

[EDIT]: Let's see if this screenshot works... Hello epic sword!

[Last Exile]

ANY Silence messes up any Healer. Plus Kick gives 5-10 seconds of cooldown applied to ALL healing. And the Druids I see mostly stay in Druid form for Healing since the Priests are busy Fearing and Burning. Druids and Shamans/Paladins do more healing than Priests from my experience in BGs.

And I was acutally basing all my comments on Arathi Basin. Druids are almost always the first target. If you're not caning Druids regularly, either your DPS is too low or your spec is wrong. The only classes that should give you trouble regularly are Warriors and Mages. And those specced/equipped properly (like a Rogue in my Guild) can beat ANY class in mere seconds. One of my guild mates, Aalea, is a 60 NE Rogue and he makes ALL classes look like swiss cheese. His dps is so insanely high (well, he does have Gutgore Ripper, Ancient Hakkari Blade in the offhand and 5 Nightslayer Pieces) that even majorly buff Warriors fall to him. Rogues should be focusing on DPS, Critical Strike chance and Dodge. Aalea can get to 80% dodge chance during combat, which means stuff like Mortal Strike, Hamstring, Frost Effects, etc. all miss, leaving him to turn his opponent into Chop Suey.

He does the Combat/Assassination cookie cutter approach too. He is a major fan of Improved Kick as well. He has no belief in the Subtlely line a swell and I don't blame him. Master of Camoflage got nerfed in 1.7 and good abilities in the line aren't avaiable until stuff like Premeditation and Preparation.

[Charizard04621]

I would like to see you try to beat a good Hunter in a duel as a Rogue. I would also love to see you, as a rogue, duel Akash in bear form with anything besides high level epic gear. It would be funny to watch.

And just so you know, I realize that rogues are supposed to do dps... Don't treat me like I'm stupid, please. I've killed three guys higher than me who were in the same party by myself before, and one of them was a supposedly unkillable paladin, who used all her survival spells besides the (1 hour recharge?) full life instantly thing. And no, I didn't do some gay jump-while-they're-being-mobbed-by-monsters-friendly-to-me-in-TM thing that alliance rogues seem so fond of doing.

Also, I repeat, Rogues cannot truly Silence a healer without Improved Kick. Kick itself doesn't do a full Silence, it just stops similar spells. Which can also be deadly, but it isn't a Silence... Not all rogues get imp kick. =/ What do other forms of Silence have to do with it??

Oh, and I kill priests and mages first, druids are leather and they can use Bear form... -_- Maybe there just aren't better targets in your group than you and the rest of the druids, huh?

And subtlety is fun, you claim that rogues need high critical strikes and high damage yet you suggest I neglect improved ambush??

[Razola]

Who needs imp. Ambush when you can just Cold Blood two Evis?

[Charizard04621]

Imp. Ambush + Cold Blooded evis is better, is it not? Of course, I'm a bigger fan of Cheap Shot, but hey. Oh, and I wish I'd gotten Preparation sooner, decided to go for Cold Blood first but I regret doing that since it'll be quite a few levels now to Preparation and it would be useful for BG... Not gonna waste gold respeccing though (already done it twice, first time when I went Assassination first and second when I did Combat), I'll just get the levels and be done with it.

And Last Exile - I just noticed, you were talking about Evading a warrior on purpose? o_O Evading 80% of the shots? Lolololololol. In case you don't realize it, not everyone has the time/resources to get fully geared up on insane gear. So... Evasion doesn't last forever. Do you realize that every time you evade an attack, a warrior's damage on you increases...? I mean, I can beat a warrior by continual stunlock, but evading him is just like... suicide... I mean, 15 seconds of Evasion, *points at Overpower (hello instant unstoppable weapon damage + 35 three times)* and if you're not dead after that and don't have major dps due to gear that you had to farm forever to get, then what? You can't expect to kill a warrior before he kills you, not when you give him three free instant damage shots instead of stunning him.

[Last Exile]

Aalea has 4 Nightslayer pieces, Brutality Blade and Warbalde of the Hakarri. He is not the most buffed stat rogue out there, there are Rogues in Eminence that have their full Bloodfang sets. But he kills Warriors in 15-20 seconds regardless of their gear. People can barely even land a hit or get a heal off against him. He can beat Paladins with ease as well, no one in our guild except Raytooth, a Paladin with a 65% block rate, can beat him.

From memory his order of attack is something like:

Cheap Shot, Sinister Strike, Gouge, Sinister Strike, Kidney Shot, Sinsiter Strike, Cold Blood, Eviscerate, with an Evasion and Improved Kick somewhere in there if he needs it. He absolutely despises Daggers and Dagger abilities, he heavily favours Swords and abilities that are higher damage with two Swords.

And his Dodge is 80% when he uses Evasion. His normal dodge is 30%.

[Red Angel]

I mean, 15 seconds of Evasion, *points at Overpower (hello instant unstoppable weapon damage + 35 three times)* and if you're not dead after that and don't have major dps due to gear that you had to farm forever to get, then what? You can't expect to kill a warrior before he kills you, not when you give him three free instant damage shots instead of stunning him.

But the question is, would taking 20% of all Warrior DPS (80% dodge with evasion) + the damage of 3 overpowers be worse than taking 70% of all Warrior DPS and likely the same ammount of overpowers? The warrior is going to Overpower you regardless, unless you artificially gimped your dodge by going for +atk and +%crit gear over +agi.

[Yero Thropp]

So.....

Is it possible that Blizzard got something right and actually gave each class an even fighting chance?

I play as a paly now, and when I was at lvl 11 I dueled a lvl 22 mage and took out half of his health; I never used my prayer thing that restores all my health. I also once dueled some guy who claimed to be an "elite" because he had three lvl 60 rogues and this was his fourth rogue; I wtfpwned him (we were both lvl 10.) Another guy (lvl 18 rogue) I dueled as my 17 warrior; I beat him like ten times before he gave up. He came so close every time... I saw him later and he was pwning everyone, and making fun of them all till he saw me and I challenged him again. He declined and said, "You. I remember you. Don't duel this guy, he's hard to kill." And he stopped bothering the poor lvl 20's.

Seriously, it just depends on your skill with the character. Find out your weaknesses and build around them; with my gnome warrior, I was buffing out on protection; I was hoping to get him to have defense like a paly, so I could stay alive long enough to fight hunters and rogues (sheild block was a lifesaver against that one jerk of a rogue,) and I was gonna wear items that had frost protection (a slow moving warrior is a dead warrior.) Of course, if that didn't work out, then I would try something different, but I never got past 17... started on my paly then...

Again, it's the player, not the class. My brother played as a lvl 8 rogue against a lvl 6 priest once, and the priest was toying with my brother, over and over. Look at it like this: Imp. Kick is deadly against casters. Imp. Ambush and Cold Blood is good against the others. If you're gnome, go for cold blood; gnomes are naturally resistant to arcane anyway, so they shouldn't worry as much about casters. Undead are the same way. Night elf rogue... well, why you didn't go hunter as a night elf I don't know, but I guess it's up to you. Besides all of this, there really isn't much of a difference which way you go, it just depends on what you want to have an advantage over. That goes for all classes and all talent trees.

(I hope) this ends this conversation about which talent tree is better for what class... but if I had to choose a side in this specific argument, I would have to agree that I would rather stun the guy rather than try and evade the warriors attacks (after playing a warrior, I know how deadly I can get when you evade my attack... just ask the jerk rogue I wtfpwned ten times, he was big on evasion...)

[Charizard04621]

Lmao, Paladins are not supposed to die if they've got all their cooldowns, Yero. Mages have the least health in the entire game, they're not hard to kill if they can't hit you with their spells or if you run them out of mana (Did he keep trying to attack you when you were invincible? Lol.) And dude, Night Elves can be so many good things other than Hunters. Night Elves naturally get Shadowmeld, that gives their Rogues the ability to Shadowmeld while they wait for Stealth to cooldown, I think. I mean, it's not a big deal, but it's pretty annoying when you accidentally get unstealthed and you want to stealth and cooldown is still recharging. I'm a Herbalist, so sometimes I'm lazy to kill the monsters... You know that it's only a matter of time before they walk back the way they came and see you. It's easier to avoid some monsters than others, but some have a very small patrol range. And the last time I checked, Night Elves and Tauren were the only races that could be Druids. Your race/class combo doesn't matter too much... It does make a difference, but that's not what you should be focusing on. The most important thing is your class. Race is a secondary, not a primary, consideration unless you just really want to be a particular race.

But the question is, would taking 20% of all Warrior DPS (80% dodge with evasion) + the damage of 3 overpowers be worse than taking 70% of all Warrior DPS and likely the same ammount of overpowers? The warrior is going to Overpower you regardless, unless you artificially gimped your dodge by going for +atk and +%crit gear over +agi.

You aren't going to be hit by a Warrior if you Stun him instead of evade him, that is my point. I saw what Akash calls the best Rogue he's ever seen (he's been playing since WoW came out). He duelled Akash yesterday, a 51 Rogue vs. a 59 Druid. Took about 5 minutes for Akash to kill him, that Rogue was an amazing stunlocker. I guarantee you he would defeat a same-level non-epic gear Warrior without Evasion (any good Rogue besides an epic-geared one would go for stunlocks). Epic gear is moot, anybody can beat anybody if one person is geared up with epics and the other is not. Have you seen that Warrior video of the Rank 14 guy on Arthas? Nobody who is insufficiently equipped can beat something that has a 70 dps weapon, and that doesn't even count the Power and Strength bonuses that a lv60 will have.

Red Angel - do you realize what you are saying? Rogues take maybe 3, 4 hits of full weapon damage from a Warrior before they die. The idea is to never let them hit you at all. Souping up your Evasion to 80% rather than 20% (what I have) or even 30% like what that guy has is suicide. You're guaranteeing an Overpower and while wasting Energy and time using Evasion, you're not stunlocking like you are supposed to.

Cheap Shot, Sinister Strike, Gouge, Sinister Strike, Kidney Shot, Sinister Strike, Vanish, Cheap Shot, Gouge, move out of his melee range a bit so Gouge cools down and then Gouge again, keep stalling for the next Kidney Shot, Sinister Strike after Kidney Shot I think, and you'll have 5 points, then you can Cold Blood and Eviscerate. If you move out of melee range, I think Gouge should be done by that time too... You have to play hit and run here, most people don't have epic gear to kill Warriors, heh.

And Last Exile, if I had full epic gear, I agree, I would dual wield swords... At the moment I have a very low level dagger (Vorpal Dagger of Power, hoping to get the Lifeforce Dirk from ST's Hakkar soon since it has 6 dps more than my current dagger), so I don't really use it for anything besides Ambushing instance bosses (immune to stun). I stick with Sinister Strike and the Bloodrazor I lucked out on getting. It does 2 dps more than Thrash Blade, lol! But I think you're missing the point here, no offense - not all Rogues have the access to good weapons such as that. It takes time and patience (that guy probably did quite a few runs before getting his stuff, or watched the ah forever, or whatnot). Kudos to him for doing that, but it'll be a long while before I can even think about trying that, since I'm currently 52 and don't know where to quest. All I'm doing is killing Furbolgs in Felwood. ^_^;

[Last Exile]

For 52-55, questing in Felwood, Western Plaguelands and Un'Goro Crater is the way to go. For 55-60, go to Wintersping, Eastern Plaguelands and Silithus. Just get the quests done there, completion of those quests is now 6000-10000 for the final part for just about every quest in those areas plus just speaking to someone in the middle of those chains nets you 2000-6000.

Cenarion Belt dropped for our guild for the first time last night. I didn't get it, our newly full member Druid did. But I did get the Cenarion boots from Lucifron 3 minutes later. So I now have 5 Cenarion pieces like Raz. Just need the Shoulders, Chest and Belt.

[Razola]

I just want the boots. Bracers sucks and I do not want to look like a deer. I got my Stormrage Cover anyways. Moose Antlers ftw.

[Charizard04621]

For 52-55, questing in Felwood, Western Plaguelands and Un'Goro Crater is the way to go. For 55-60, go to Wintersping, Eastern Plaguelands and Silithus. Just get the quests done there, completion of those quests is now 6000-10000 for the final part for just about every quest in those areas plus just speaking to someone in the middle of those chains nets you 2000-6000.

Cenarion Belt dropped for our guild for the first time last night. I didn't get it, our newly full member Druid did. But I did get the Cenarion boots from Lucifron 3 minutes later. So I now have 5 Cenarion pieces like Raz. Just need the Shoulders, Chest and Belt.

Sweet, that's a freakload of exp. I'll do that, thanks.

Last night we killed devilsaurs (53 Rogue, 54 Rogue, 59 Druid) and got 20 Devilsaur Leather in under 3 hours. *starts drooling at the thought of Devilsaur gear* Hehe, we stopped to get the Gurubashi chest and there was absolutely nobody there, too =P The server experienced a shutdown very, very soon after we did that, which explains why we got it so easily. We tried to kill King Mosh because the regular devilsaurs were so easy... Was not a good idea. o_O We were hitting him for maybe 15 seconds and had done no damage, had to run away and our feral druid (who has more hp and armor than a non-epic gear warrior at his level) died. Lol! I had caused so little damage that he had no aggro on me, so I could Stealth away instead of Vanish. >_< Not trying that again until we have a full party of 60s. Is there a quest for him by the way? Seems like there might be, or at least maybe skinning him would drop one.

Our guild isn't large enough to run end-game instances yet, we keep sadly losing our level 60s to larger guilds. It's all right, though, I don't intend to stay on that server forever. We'll probably start our own guild when we change servers. WSG all the way! ^_^

Oh, and congratulations on your gear.

[Red Angel]

I think I finally have enough DKP to afford whatever Cennarion drops tonight - hopefully Helm or Chest. I'm usually a latecomer to our MC run (they go 7-12, I'm usually there for the last 2 hours as people leave and we get replacements) and thus it took me a while to save the DKP to outbid people All I have now are the shoulders.

[Last Exile]

I hate DKP, LDS is such a better system. DKP favours the more buff people.

Got Cenarion Belt and Cenarion Shoulders in the MC run on Friday night. So now I'm up to 7/8! Just need the Cenarion Vestments to complete my set.

[Leon-IH]

A good solid zero-sum DKP system is the best way to ensure a fair distribution of loot on an effort:loot basis.

Just my 2 cents.

[Razola]

What the fuck is LDS?

[Red Angel]

Made our first Rag "attempt tonight with 30-odd people. It burned. Like fire.

[Last Exile]

LDS = Loot Distribution System. The idea of this setup is that all members get equally as powerful because 40 people with great gear beat a lot where 30 are reasonable and 10 are uber.

Ragnaros can't be done without 40 people, a minimum of 80 Greater Fire Protection Potions for the entire raid, laying out everyone in the right place at the start and killing the Sons of Flame within 1 minute of their spawning. You have to beat Ragnaros before the 2nd wave of Sons or you're history.

We've done some dry runs on Rag without potioning up. We've almost been able to kill all the Sons without pots so we figure we should be able to once we have the potions ready. However, having them all the the right place, using enough CC and making sure their mana burns don't suck people dry is a really touch balancing act.

[Red Angel]

Rag's been done with far less than 40 people - heck, we got him to 78% with just over 30, and we were just goofing off - we only had one tank with enough FR for the job, crap FR on a good half of the raid, and no real plan. I'm not saying that he's easy or that our guild is really awesome or something, but he's not as hard as he's cracked up to be. Likewise, he can be done with 2 waves of sons - I have a video of that, too.

[Last Exile]

It can be but I certainly wouldn't recommend it at all. Get Rag down to 30-40% before the Sons come, kill the Sons, finish Rag off, get your tier 2 legs, then go to Blackwing Lair. I advise getting him down before wave 2 because you can't have an out of combat resser in the Rag fight unless a Druid combat resses a Paladin or a Priest. Once someone goes down, they're down. The longer you're at it, the greater the chance Rag does an unexpected blast to wipe out the clothies.

Get as much FR gear as possible for the fight and make at least 80 Greater Fire Protection potions (i.e. 2 per person). FR is the key. If your party has good FR, Rag drops like a fly.