ASB Attack List Beta: All Versions

[Ace64]

Look at the bottom of page one.Tada.

[Heald]

Oops. Cheers.

[Hatake Kakashi]

Hail hurts non-ice types in game, but in ASB I think it should deal a specific % to all types, same as sandstorm. Being of an ice type doesnt stop the hail hitting you, and in my reffings I say they deal damage to whoever is around (unless underground/water/whatever)

As for mist/haze affecting clones, I'd say no, because they are a vapor-like cloud, and the particles are not big enough to diminish the clones. Hail or Sandstorm would however.

Hmm. Wouldn't haze and mist go THROUGH them, giving you a definite excuse to focus on it? Granted Pokemon like Gastly would look the same, that's more a liability.

As for sandstorm: I imagine a rock, ground, and steel-types hide would be thicker than normal and thus able to withstand their own sandstorms.

[Chris 2.1]

Yea I agree with sandstorm...don't know why that never occured to me.

As for mist/haze, I'm not sure what you're saying. Are you agreeing with me?

[Dark Dragonite]

I would disagree with Sandstorm, look how the world works, just because something is rock, or of the ground/earth, doesn't mean a hard enough sandstorm can't wear them away, do the pyramids look perfect, as the day they were built? no, sandstorms affected them... sand can erode things, even metal, if hit hard enough will leave little chinks/dents in it, am I correct?
Just to hit home on that note, no, a sandstorm is not a hurricane, but the little rocks/pebbles/sand does a lot of damage to cars, metal or not, I should know, I live here.

As for Haze/Mist affecting clones... as their description says...it's hard to see, and foggy, how can one discern the difference when one has trouble seeing?
It's not the same as rain dance, sandstorm, hail, etc where you have something pierce the clones.

[Ace64]

I think what Kakashi was saying is that Mist/Haze would pass through the clones, but would flow around the true body. So, one clone would look like a shadow in the mist, whereas the others would be nearly invisible. And even so, the skin of a Steelix would be bothered less by loose sand and gravel than say, a Jigglypuff.

[RaZoR LeAf]

Mist and Haze are basically water vapour, just a little more concentrated than regular air. Since 'air' doesn't affect clones, neither should these. But I think they would pass through the clones, since they don't really a possess substantal solid form. The only time I would imagine it having an effect, is if a clone were right next to the pokemon creating the mist/haze. Then the amount and force of it forming might be enough to blow the copy away, similar to a gust or whirlwind.

As for Sandstorm, the pyramids weren't eroded in five or less turns. So a small regular sandstorm wont do much damage to types that would naturally resist it. If there were other things beind whipped up with it, then there's a chance of it hurting pokemon more.

[Dark Dragonite]

I didn't say it would be equal on a tougher skinned pokemon, but you have to admit, the facts point to it doing something...

And for the other, the lighting would have to be perfect, and/or the pokes would have to be close...if you've ever gone through fog, I've driven in it, you really can't see well, or far, plus, if fog are dense clouds, I've been on an airplane, you CANNOT see through it. They can hide the sun, and you expect to see a shadow compared to somethign solid?

RL: so a sandstorm + whirlwind/razorwind would do better than?

[Dark Dragonite]

While I'm at this, I may as well ask:

1)Do ghost type moves hurt normal types, I've never encountered this yet?

2)Do physical moves hit Ghosts, or do they have to phase out/go invisible/transparent/or if you like Danny Phantom, "go ghost" to avoid most moves?

[Hatake Kakashi]

I would disagree with Sandstorm, look how the world works, just because something is rock, or of the ground/earth, doesn't mean a hard enough sandstorm can't wear them away, do the pyramids look perfect, as the day they were built? no, sandstorms affected them... sand can erode things, even metal, if hit hard enough will leave little chinks/dents in it, am I correct?
Just to hit home on that note, no, a sandstorm is not a hurricane, but the little rocks/pebbles/sand does a lot of damage to cars, metal or not, I should know, I live here.

Fine. If your battle takes hundreds to thousands of years to complete and there's constant sandstorms, then we can discuss erosion.


And no, Ghost moves and most physical attacks don't hit Ghost types. If it is not Normal or Fighting, it has an aura of that type to do extra damage to a Pokemon weak to its' type.

[Dark Dragonite]

Well, to be 100% accurate, we'd have to see a sandstorm hit metal and rock IRL, but then, we aren't dealing with a lot of real life physics here, are we?
I don't see why sandstorm wouldn't atleast do 1%, I mean let's look at specifics, Skarmory, steel type, but, it's also flying, I would think flying in a sandstorm would do something, it's high speed wind, on ground and rock types, it would affect their eyes, ever get sand in your eyes? It doesn't feel good, plus, with the wind force in a sandstorm, you would have pieces of the ground, rocks, etc blowing, surely they would get hit as well.

[Hatake Kakashi]

Skarmory takes critical hits of Normal attacks rather heavily, so I imagine he's got some sort of metallic eyelids.
And Camerupt and Numel are camels, so they're built to survive and withstand sandstorms(Camels have thin membranes that protect their eyes and let them see, while allowing them to close off their nose complete during a sandstorm).

[Dark Dragonite]

yes, but a camel wouldn't be able to hold it's breath for so many turns, and opening it's mouth would be a bad thing. So would a bird flying, or trying to attack with it's eyes closed, especially since it's being blown around to begin with.

Would you prefer to battle that way?

[Hatake Kakashi]

yes, but a camel wouldn't be able to hold it's breath for so many turns, and opening it's mouth would be a bad thing. So would a bird flying, or trying to attack with it's eyes closed, especially since it's being blown around to begin with.

Would you prefer to battle that way?

Sandstorms don't extend into the lower atmosphere. And camels can keep their eyes and nose close for a long time. They take small breaths when they can I believe.

On top of that, Skarmorys a steel-type. I think he's used to having gravity working against him enough to fly in a sandstorm.

[Dark Dragonite]

1)if sandstorms don't extend into the lower atmosphere, this move wouldn't hurt anything at all.

2)Skarmory is only 111.30lbs, there are much heavier fliers, such as:

Zapdos(116)
Tropius(220.5) it only flies with leaf-wings
Scyther(123.5)
Salamence(226.2)
Rayquaza(455.2)
Moltres(132.3)
Mantine(485)Heavy for a manta ray
Lugia(476.2)
Ho-oh(138.7)
Gyarados(518.1)I've never seen one fly in the anime
Golbat(121.3)
Gligar(142.9)
Dragonite(463) tiny wings, heavy pokemon
Dodrio(187.8)Doesn't actually fly from what I've seen
Crobat(165.3)
Charizard(199.5)
Articuno(122.1)
Aerodactyl(130.1)


Also, according to the game, here are pokedex entries:
"It's sturdy wings look heavy, but they are actually hollow and light, allowing it to fly freely in the sky."
"This pokemon flies at close to 190mph."
sound heavy and slow to anyone else here?

[Hatake Kakashi]

So you have one point against mine. Skarmory is in fact light.

Gasp.


Still doesn't mean that dirt and small rocks will do ANYTHING to steel over the course of a few minutes.

[Chris 2.1]

Guys.....


.....does it really matter THAT much?


We'll do a vote: Who thinks sandstorm should hurt rock/ground/steel types. I say nay.

[Vermillion]

Very interesting rant...but I vote that Sandstorm shouldn't hurt them...

[Dark Dragonite]

I vote it should do damage, 1% wouldn't be too much

Now, if it gets voted down, does this mean it doesn't affect their sight or anything, as if there is only a sandstorm hitting the other pokemon, or is this just for damage?

[Chris 2.1]

Well basically it's to decide if sandstorm AFFECTS them so low visibility will probably be decided by votes too

[Ace64]

Yeesh. When did this matter? It only lasts five turns, and chances are it'll be canceled before then...

I vote nay.

[The_Missing_Link]

Yeesh. When did this matter? It only lasts five turns, and chances are it'll be canceled before then...

I vote nay.

In the anime, it's only one action

I vote nay also

[darktyranitar]

Eh, I vote nay. Who started this argument in the first place?

And on different note, how does Rest work? Is it a 100% HP rest? Or the HP increase bit by bit?

[RaZoR LeAf]

Rest varies between refs. Some don't like the idea of it instantly healing 100% on the turn it's used. I personally let it last for 5 turns, and it heal 10% health and 5% energy (or 0% if they use Sleep Talk or Snore) each turn. So a total of 50% health over all. I'm sure other people might ref it differently, but in any case, people dislike it a great deal due to it's quick health gain, so most people ban it.

Oh, and no to Sandstorm hurting steel/rock/ground. ASB Is Anime style, but some of it has to be based on the games, because the anime just doesn't do it justice sometimes (one turn? pfft!)

[MeLoVeGhOsTs]

I like to use Sandstorm as Jasmine's steelix in the animé. One turn counter attack.

I vote nay. Wtf, I'd like to see a sandstorm hurt a gigantic iron snake. Lol.

[Hatake Kakashi]

Obviously voting nay.

Also, are we including Cacturn/Cacnea as unharmed, or no since that's only their Trait and those aren't in effect?
(Which is another point for why ground/steel/rock types aren't affected by it. Many LIVE in deserts, so being unprepared for a sandstorm seems silly.)

As for Rest? It depends on my mood. Sometimes I'll put it up to 100% on both bars, but the pokemon is asleep for far longer(and thus much too groggy to complete any sort of moves in Sleep Talk as well as if they were FORCED to sleep, as well as leaving them groggy for a turn or so after they awake*which is usually a few rounds*.) Otherwise I'll do like everyone else and it's a chunk every round.

[Ultimate Charizard]

Perhaps Rest could be adapted to be an Endurance Recharger rather than a HP recharge. Alot of poeple dont allow Rest to be used anyway but if we change it (the games dont take into account endurance so we wont see anything else that would do this) then we wouldnt need to see people going "and this turn, dont attack just take a break" and would also eliminate the battles that are lost by tiredness (which i hate winning btw).
It also introduces things like Sleep Talk and Snore as more strategic rather than a last resort when your put to sleep (which rarely lasts long these days anyway)

[darktyranitar]

Ai, I guess I'll put it a bit of HP recovery each turn for now...

And another question, on Toxic. For the poison rate, does it doube by each round? (ie, 2%, 4%, 8%...) And does it also drain the energy a lot? I've seen on some match where the Pokemon is KOed due to the tiredness, caused by the loss of energy by Toxic.

[Dark Dragonite]

Ok, while we are at this, I say poison types cannot be poisoned, especially the likes of koffing, gulpin, grimer, and their evos, as their environment and their bodies shouldn't have any issue with toxins...

Also, Ice type pokemon shouldn't be affected by hail, their environment is cold, but water types and steel types should be affected more...

EDIT: Steel types should be affected negatively by sunny day as well.

[Chris 2.1]

The sandstorm issue seems to have been decided as 'nay' overall. Sandstorm DOES NOT do damage to rock/steel/ground types and WILL NOT hinder their decision.

As for Toxic, you can ref it as doubling: 2%, 4%, 8%, 16% etc. But I add 2 on each round, so it goes: 2%, 4%, 6%, 8%, etc.

And I agree: Poison types cannot be poisoned.

As for Hail, I agree, I suppose.

Steel Types: To be honest this seems very trivial to worry about but we'll see what others think.

[Elec Man EXE]

Hot sun wouldn't effect a steel type unless they're like IN the sun itself. You don't see steel buildings toppling over on a hot day :p

If any pokemon should be effected by the sun, it should be ice types (melting, oh noes!)

[Chris 2.1]

If they were made of ice....and I think that only means Regiice who is, luckily, not available in ASB.

[Elec Man EXE]

I think Glalie is as well... either that or its just coated in ice. But thats just nitpicking, and since I'm going to have a Glalie very soon I'd prefer not to be hurt by it

[Dark Dragonite]

Actually the hail, and hot sun might give steel types an uuber advantage:

If they get too hot to the touch

OR

If an opponent does something stupid, like trying to lick attack a steel type in the hail, lol

As far as the sun affecting them, have you ever touched a hot car that's sat in the sun, hell, I leave my car for an hour, and it's 100 degrees Farenheit inside, I know, I have a guage, lol

I didn't say they would topple over, but there is a chance of overheating, they are "alive" and have "feelings" you know :p

Just for the record, I am not against steel types at all, I want a skarmory, and am thinking about steelix, and forretress...just don't think they should be made into uuber legendaries...

[Chris 2.1]

Nah Snorunts classed as an ice hat Pokemon and Glalie is the face Pokemon. Glalie's supposed to look like a hockey mask and the white parts, in my opinion, look like a bone-like material to protect the black parts of its body.

[Dark Dragonite]

I knew I loved psypoke for a reason:

Glailie's dex descriptions:

Ruby: Glalie has a body made of rock, which it hardens with an armor of ice.

FR/LG: It has a body of ice that won't melt, even with fire. It can instantly freezy moisture in the atmosphere.

So, no worries with Glalie!!

[Metallixs Girl]

I just want to say, I like Ultimate Charizard's idea of Rest. If Rest heals EP then we wouldn't need to worry about Relaxing, and it just makes more sense, realistically.

[Chris 2.1]

Its a move where there can be varying ways to do it. I stick to the in game version myself but feel free to use either.

[Dark Dragonite]

I had to look at the description..I love Splash, ROFL!!
It could arguably be used to help, or confuse a foe, make a foe think it's weak, lowering it's defense, am I right?

[Chris 2.1]

Maybe in water, but on land I can't imagine anything less feeble.