The Chunky Clefable Cafe

[Chris Watarimono]

Hmmm...maybe it'd be better if we talked about typical damage/energy usages for attacks in our reffings. Of course, I haven't reffed in a long while, but these are in my archives and they worked pretty well for the time I was reffing. At least for me anyway.

Strong Attacks: Inflicts 10% damage for 5% energy
-Water Gun
-Thunderbolt
-Flamethrower
-Shadow Ball

Medium Attacks: Inflicts 6% damage for 3% energy
-Bite
-Spark
-Razor Leaf
-Flame Wheel

Heavy Attacks: Inflicts 12% damage for 6% energy
-Fire Blast
-Thunder
-Blizzard

Variant Attacks:
-Facade: Hits for 6% damage for 4% energy. Status infliction like Poisioning and Burning will elevate base damage to 12%
-Focus Punch: User charges for 4% energy. If attacked before executing attack, user loses energy and attack. When sucessful, they use up 3% more energy and inflict 16% damage

II) Appendix B - Bonuses

A. Evolutionary Bonuses
+3 for a 3rd stage Pokemon against a basic Pokemon (Blastoise vs Squirtle)
+2 for a 3rd stage Pokemon against a Half stage Pokemon (Blastiose vs Wartortle)
+2 for a 2nd stage Pokemon against a basic Pokemon (Granbull/Zangoose vs Squirtle)
+1 for a 3rd stage Pokemon against a 2nd stage Pokemon (Blastoise vs Granbull/Zangoose)
+1 for a 2nd stage Pokemon against a Half stage Pokemon (Granbull/Zangoose vs Wartortle)
+1 for a Half stage Pokemon against a basic Pokemon (Wartortle vs Squirtle)
+0 for equal level Pokemon (Squirtle vs Snubull)

B. Type Bonuses
+2 for Super-Effective attacks (Water Gun on Charmander)
+3 for Hyper-Effective attacks (Water Gun on Geodude)
-2 for Basic resistance (Thundershock on Bellsprout)
-3 for Hyper resistance (Vine Whip on Weedle)
0 for Immunity (Shadow Ball on Eevee)

C. STAB
-1 Energy usage if same type as attack

From the first list, that's pretty much the typical energy consumption/damage ratio that applies for most attacks. Attack energy consumption shouldn't be higher than half of the base damage. There's attacks that fall out of this list, but those are exceptions rather than the rule.

Judging from the second list, attack bonuses shouldn't be higher than 1-3 points for each category, otherwise things would inflate and things would go out of whack. The same is said for STAB Bonuses

Anyway, these are my lists, and I haven't reffed in a while, so feedback on this setup would be neat. :3

-Chris R.

[Ultimate Charizard]

That looks pretty good actually.

The only thing i would check however is when it comes to the Level v level matchup, what would u class non-evolvers as?
You have Zangoose as an example of a Second Stage but it doesnt actually evolve. Is that where you would put it?

[Chris Watarimono]

As far as Pokemon "Levels" are concerned in ASB:

-Basic Pokemon: Pokemon in the very first stages of their evolutionary chains. It doesn't count non-evolvers since those are fully grown.
Charmander
Pichu
Staryu
Vulpix
Aron

-Half Stage: Pokemon halfway evolved in their chain. In other words, the 2nd stage of a 3 stage Pokemon.
Charmeleon
Dragonair
Nidorino
Jigglypuff
Pikachu

-2nd Stage: Pokemon fully evolved in two stages and non-evolvers.
Marowak
Ninetails
Starmie
Zangoose
Lickutung
Snorlax

-3rd Stage: Pokemon fully evovled in three stages
Blastoise
Meganaium
Blaziken
Vileplume
Raichu
Clefable

-Chris R.

[Mega Horny]

All looks good, but isn't 10% damage a little too much for water gun? And if things like Hydro Pump are at 12%, then thats saying that water gun is nearly as powerful. Just a small nitpick, and its really only my method of reffing, but I thought i would mention it.

[Ultimate Charizard]

Personally id class Water Gun alongside Ember/Vine Whip etc.
Surf is the water equivalent of Thunderbolt/Flamethrower etc

[Charles Legend]

pardon my interruption but I have something that you guys might find Interesting, Ok guys I was talking to Drew earlier yesterday and here is what we mostly talked about....

TreeMander: hi
TreeMander: Charles legend
the End of Ages: Yeah... I gathered.
TreeMander: Anyways what's up?
the End of Ages: Not much; I just moved.
TreeMander: ah I see, btw this would not happen to be Drew I am speaking would it?
the End of Ages: It is; no worries.
TreeMander: ah, btw thank you for giving me your old Dragonite when you left..
the End of Ages: You're welcome.
TreeMander: btw everyone else other then Andrew thank you for the presents as well...
the End of Ages: Tell them that they're all welcome.
TreeMander: yeah, btw I noticed something though you never did give your Umbreon anyway, my I ask why.
the End of Ages: Sentimental reasons, I s'pose.
TreeMander: oh ok good enough reason for me... so what have you been up to as of late?
the End of Ages: Not much. I just did a lot of visiting really.
TreeMander: ah I see.
the End of Ages: Indeed.
TreeMander: btw know how I said Andrew did not like the gifts you gave him, well I sort of ended up with your old Aipom Pompom...
the End of Ages: Oh? That's interesting.
TreeMander: Yeah and I am using him in a battle with Dark Dragonite, Andrew gave Jeff your old Heracross....
the End of Ages: I figured as much.
TreeMander: btw where did you get the name for your old Electrode: at anyways? just asking.
the End of Ages: It means "no one", literally because there is no number one in the string of numbers.
TreeMander: lol ok, btw if you dont mind me asking why did you leave TPM was it because you were moving or something more? I am just asking that’s all...
the End of Ages: I needed to get myself away from places like that; they took a lot of time out of me.
TreeMander: ah I see it's ok I can understand..
the End of Ages: Right.
TreeMander: so I take it your just surfing the web or something?
the End of Ages: For the most part, yes.
TreeMander: ah I see..
the End of Ages: Yeah.
the End of Ages is away at 8:12:29 PM.
the End of Ages signed off at 9:27:20 PM.
the End of Ages signed on at 11:58:54 PM.
TreeMander: hey drew welcome back.
the End of Ages: Thank-you.
the End of Ages returned at 12:02:15 AM.
TreeMander: btw I may not be doing to well with Pompom however I and doing fairly well with Algernon in my battle with Dark sage...
the End of Ages: Good to know.
TreeMander: Anyways I forgot to tell you earlier that everyone wished you the best of luck...
the End of Ages: That's good to hear.
the End of Ages: Tell them that I give 'em thanks, I s'pose.
TreeMander: ok
TreeMander: btw I take it you did not want the other to know why you left?
the End of Ages: Doesn't matter to me, really.

Err I am just letting you guys know, what drew has kind of been up to and that all..

~Charles legend

[Andrew]

I appreciated the gifts, I just didn't want them. They didn't fit in with my ideal team. Which is one Pokemon and two evolutions away from completion! For the moment.

And energy Kos are ok IMO. You see athletes get so exhausted they just collapse.

[Dark Dragonite]

And energy Kos are ok IMO. You see athletes get so exhausted they just collapse.

Or vomit after scoring a goal in midfield...lol...Beckham, you crazy bastard...

When I used to ref, granted we're talking back in the yen days...I never had an energy KO, and most moves were around, like thunder/blizzard/fireblast...etc...

[darktyranitar]

Hey, not a bad list, Chris. And yeah, I think Water Gun damage is a tad too high for me.

Oh, just a question: how much would you ref a weak attack damage, such as Astonish and Tackle? For me, I stick for 3% damage.

[Silencer]

Question: Why does everyone ban OHKO moves such as Horn Drill? It's not like the opponent will actually be killed or beaten if it's hit. This is ASB, not the game.

[darktyranitar]

I think in ASB, it's not an instant KO, but more of a huge damage (I used a Horn Drill once, and I got about 20+ worth of damage). So... maybe that's too much?

[Negrek]

Oh, just a question: how much would you ref a weak attack damage, such as Astonish and Tackle? For me, I stick for 3% damage.

Depends both upon the pokémon using it and the pokémon it's being used upon. For astonish, example, assuming that neither pokémon has any stat boosts and that the pokémon it's being used on is not immune to ghost-type attacks, the damage would vary to be anywhere between 1% and 10% damage, 10% assuming maximum-stage evolution, STAB, SE.

Question: Why does everyone ban OHKO moves such as Horn Drill? It's not like the opponent will actually be killed or beaten if it's hit. This is ASB, not the game.

Huge damage.

[RaZoR LeAf]

1HKO Attacks usuaully push the damage to the very top of the damage caps a ref sets. This can be anywhere from 30-45% (I doubt anyone has damage caps any higher, mine are set at 35%). On the down side, the pokemon using them has to have a perfect shot at attacking, as they require a lot of concentration.

[Silencer]

This energy thing has made me think a little. (*shock*)

Tag matches
You send out 2 (or more pokémon). 1 goes in to the arena, the others are on a safe platform. for instance, we have trainer A and trainer B. Trainer A sends out pokémon A1, A2 and A3. Trainer B sends out pokémon B1, B2 or B3

Begining of the battle we have A1 vs B1

Somewhere during the battle pokémon A1 is geting very tired so trainer A declares following attacks

Shake him up with Earthquake, then tag with A2. A2 you finish this round with a safeguard.
Earthquake~tag A2~safeguard.

See how it works?

meanwhile the battle goes on with A2 vs B1. pokémon A1 is at a safe spot and regains some energy seeing as he isn't moving or doing anything.

The only problem is status problems and ofcourse some rules for tags (like tag can only be used after 3 rounds and there has to be 3 rounds between tags). Status problems can still go so that a pokémon will still lose 2HP each round because of poisoning.

Basicly this means it's a 3on3 where you are allowed to change but substituted pokémon regain energy.

So, does anyone have any comments?

[Dragonis]

I was thinking of having a match exactly like that, but with two pokemon instead of three. I was just waiting until I evolved some of my pokemon first.

[Ultimate Charizard]

Well ASB battles did used to go like that. Recalling and Sending out something different happened all the time. Of course this is long before Endurance was taken into account in battles.

[Chris 2.1]

*Crawls through 5 pages of CCC randomness*

God thats tough on the eyes. Hey folks. A few things:

-TBA: Carvanha beat Blastoise? Crap
-Energy KO's - it's simple. If you dont like them, lowert he energy expelled per attack
-Back-alley betting - No no no, but I ehar TBA is doing a back-alley organ deal. Ever fancied Gills? Just send him a PM

-Tiny Tourney - Ok a few brainfarts. Initially it was for non evolvers and basic stage Pokemon. Obviously some Pokes like Beedrill and Butterfree would be allowed. Banette is small, Octillery is small...don't go looking in a Pokedex because there's no "Hey kids! You need to be smaller than THIS *Crappy plastic guy wityh his arm out* to enter! Hyuk Hyuk Hyuk" but if you have queries, ask me.

Quagsire - No. I'm sure I said yes before but No.
Marowak - No
Clefairy, Pikachu, Togetic, Jigglypuff - Yes.


Err

I'm tired x_x


I'm starting up the Grand Festival now. Karins been away so we've all been slowed down. No worries people.

[+conspiracy+]

o0o *my first post in teh Cafe*

anyways, the idea that Silencer has is an excellent idea, but the only problem that I see is status inflictions... poisoning will of course takes its toll, and I'm guessing that burn will do the same, but will other status ailments such as confusion and attraction still be in effect if the poke were to return to battle (after the 3 rounds in which it must sit out <--- good idea) or will the ailments just wear off...

and comparing now to the old ASB days.. I miss the Gym Leaders, it just gave you something to play for...

[Chris 2.1]

Theres hope for GLs yet

[Silencer]

o0o *my first post in teh Cafe*

anyways, the idea that Silencer has is an excellent idea, but the only problem that I see is status inflictions... poisoning will of course takes its toll, and I'm guessing that burn will do the same, but will other status ailments such as confusion and attraction still be in effect if the poke were to return to battle (after the 3 rounds in which it must sit out <--- good idea) or will the ailments just wear off...

I kinda put it up here for discussion so that that problem could be cleared out. I would say attraction and confusion would wear off seeing as rounds are passing. And if your pokémon is attracted and your opponent would tag I would say that the attraction would be gone, seeing as the "lover" is gone aswell

[RaZoR LeAf]

Attraction is usually short lived as far as I'm concerened. It's enough to have your opponent stop what they are doing and not attack you, but when the attractee starts to attack, why would they continue to feel the false love? Confusion too is snapped out of just like in the games, or some attacks can be used to refocus the mind and body.

[The Blue Avenger]

-TBA: Carvanha beat Blastoise? Crap

Well, not exactly, but he wore him down enough that Weezing just had to wait out a turn or two. >_>

[Chris 2.1]

Aha now thats entirely different....

[Dark Dragonite]

I've actually made attraction backfire...by being in love, I ordered my poke to use an attack and show how strong it is to it's love interest, and it worked, also, I believe wrap worked super by being infatuated...hehe, I'm a crafty sob...

[RaZoR LeAf]

I've often said "Why not Return the love" and things to that extent. Never thought of wrapping up slow though. "Why not show how much you love her, bu spitting some poison in her eyes and burning her face off with a flame thrower? Oh sure, female pokemon love that sort of thing!"

[Dark Dragonite]

things like wrap work great, cause it turns into something like: give her the biggest, tightest hug you can think of with wrap". The other things were like "Show her what a great catch you are" or "show her your strength" something like that...I've never had an attraction stop my attacks, lol...now, swagger and other such attacks annoy me, cause I like using mixtures of things like slp,psn, as well as like double team clones, and although I would like to think I get an attack boost, and can spend it hurting my foe.

EDIT: for Saffire Persian
http://www.pokemasters.net/forums/in...topic=43833.50
It was a tough match, my Abra being KOed by Octillery, then Feizhi fissuring Octillery, then, a tough battle between the two, including burning leaf wings, and whatnot...lol...again, great match Chris!

[Chris 2.1]

A couple weeks ago now we were discussing refs and the fact that there were too few refs to help the increase in battles. A genereal motion was agreed that we could scrap the fourth slot and keep it at three since most of these 4th slots were in actuality abandoned due to lack of a ref.

However looking in ASB I find most matches reffed, and the 4th slot has not yet been abolished.

I ask you, the refs of ASB, what you think about this. Would you want more work as the 4th battle slot is kept....or would you prefer it officially lowered? I'll put a poll in the main forum for a while and see what people think. We'll make it an open discussion and any further points please put them there.


Thanks.

[Dark Dragonite]

Oh, now that I remember, thank Chris, for letting me work at the egg center, it was a blast, lol, and work.

[Chris 2.1]

You're quitting? Damn I was hoping you'd stay longer

[Ace64]

Damn it Chris, your sig just made me colorblind.

[Chris 2.1]

Then it's achieved its purpose

[Dark Dragonite]

You're quitting? Damn I was hoping you'd stay longer

Woah, I thought I was just watching the egg center for you, if you would like me to keep working, just say the word, and I'm back in action, grinning like a Sableye!!

[Chris 2.1]

You'd actually run it full time for me? I'd really (and I mean really) appreciate that

[Dark Dragonite]

I would love to run the ASB Egg Center!!
I had fun(don't ask me why or how, lol), and I know you and Dan have a lot to do around ASB, and with writing those fanfics.

*runs back to the Egg Center trampling various pedestrians*

[RaZoR LeAf]

Heheh. I was browsing the archive today. I based the new mock reffing off an old match (check it out, Prodigy vs Pokemaster Ash). Also, I found the RS Giveaway. back when RS Pokemon had just been introduced into ASB, there was a free give away of one pokemon per person. I think when Diamond and Pearl finally come around, we'll do the same again. I'm sure there will be plenty of people eager to get their hands on a DP Poke straight away. But it'll be a long while yet, needs a UK release till it hits ASB.

[Saffire Persian]

We should definitely do what you're suggesting. ^^... There's probably some type of new feline Pokémon that I'll want... even if we do have to wait 'til England gets it.

[Chris 2.1]

I agree english release. By then we'll have begun getting our heads around the potentially stupid species (Mime Jr?!) and the sure-to-be popular ones that havent surfaced yet.

[Mega Horny]

So pretty much unless you've been dying to get your hands on a Bonsly, Manene or whatever the pre-mantine is called, you should catch a Mr. Mime/Sudowoodo/Mantine now, if youve been planning to do so, rather than wasting more points at a later date.

But say they give Manene some crazy baby moves that it passes on to Mr. Mime, such as Smoochum passing psychic onto Jynx. Mr. Mime will still be able to use those moves right, or will we have to have trained it from a Manene previously?

[Saffire Persian]

stupid species (Mime Jr?!)

.. I agree on that comment. XD... Mime Jr. looks like a ball of moose given humanoid form.

[Dark Dragonite]

yes, pokemon can learn their moves, plus their prior forms moves.

I like the giveaway, I'll probably be stuck on Lucario, lol

It's going to be a while before UK release, if it's scheduled in Fall of 2006 for Japan, then assume spring 2007 for USA, it usually takes longer for UK, right?