2006 Senate Midterm Elections (or "Who do you want to ruin America this time?")

[Roy Karrde]

If you tried to hack me or not, it doesn't matter becuase who ever it was failed, but your timing is very suspicious.

As for your pissy responce, I think I will let your sorry comments speak for itself at how sad of a person you are. Anyway lets try and get back on topic as Blade suggested.

[DarkTemplarZero]

If you tried to hack me or not, it doesn't matter becuase who ever it was failed, but your timing is very suspicious.

As for your pissy responce, I think I will let your sorry comments speak for itself at how sad of a person you are. Anyway lets try and get back on topic as Blade suggested.

And I will let your lack of spelling ability speak for itself.

[Clark]

Five, Bulbasaur4 has really nice cleavage. If I was single I'd hit it
http://www.pokemasters.net/forums/in...ach=8369;image
Rawr.

holy shit batman...
one, rawr is an understatement.
two, aim hacks? what are you 12? lol just because a couple people messaged you, doesnt mean you got hacked, no one wants your name LOL
three, so obviously you must be against abortion, but allowing our families to die in the desert for something that won't put more food on our tables.
four, is homeofmew in pikachu suit a worthy reason to support war?
five, keep posting, this is entertainment at its finest.

[SuperSonicMewtwo]

LOUD NOISES!!!!

all politics aside, posting a link to a picture and a comment like that about ANYONE is incredibly rude.

and picking a random line from ACE135CC's list, no, war doesn't put more food on our tables. It keeps other people from coming over here and shooting you in the face. You still get the chance to eat.

actually, i take that back, the military pays well, so it DOES help food get on the table.

[DarkTemplarZero]

First of all, don't think quoting 40 Year Old Virgin will stop me, although that was a great movie. Hahah calling somebody hot is rude? It's a complement! Damn.

Actually, war does put oil on Bush's table. He makes quite the bitchload of money from all those oil refineries he made sure the army secured the instant they *ahem* "liberated" Iraq.

[Clark]

No one is going to shoot me in the face, thanks. Whats the point of the military paying well if those people will never see it! All those poor innocent boys/men/women dead because our president wants to take things that aren't his. Would you mind if your local government came to your house, killed everyone in your family just because they wanted your toaster or something? There is no point to this war other than to put us(US) in a larger national debt that we will never recover from.

[SuperSonicMewtwo]

to darktemplarzero: compliments involve words like 'pretty.'

I'll take the higher quality of living + the knowledge that I may not come home from work that day over having a dictator who executes entire villages and forces everyone he's not buds with to live in poverty, any day.

you get that view when, your entire life, you have the knowledge that your family members may die that day due to homicide bombers, and have to worry every day about it.

to ace135cc: well they already crashed 4 of our airplanes because we weren't paying as much attention. i think something like pointing a gun to someone's face is a little easier to pull off than crashing airplanes.

you join the military knowing the risk. whether or not a country is in peace time, it is a MILITARY and therefore, fighting shall be involved. if one dies protecting the country, i thank them, that they were working hard and even gave up their oppurtunity for life so that mine may go on, as well as Iraqis, Afganis, and everyone who otherwise would have been hurt by the militants that this soldier helped fight to bring down.

i can't make sense of your analogy. it actually sounds more like terrorism than what our military is doing- someone coming on your property and way of life, killing people to scare you and take what is yours.

[Clark]

Well, last time I checked, Iraq wasn't a state or a colony of the United States. So, why are we there? If they wish to kill each other, I see no problem. Less of them, less we have to lose. I say let nature run its course and then we can go implant McDonald's and Starbucks. Until then I don't see a point.

[DarkTemplarZero]

"Pretty"? That's so lame. I can understand "beautiful" or something like that, but pretty is just something you say when you have no guts to say anything else.

Second of all, don't think I don't know that my family members may die tomorrow in a terrorist attack. My dad and sister work in New York City. My internship is just across the Hudson. My dad was in the first tower that got hit on September 11. Don't lecture me about worrying about my family.

Next, I was born in the Soviet Union, raised to hearing stories about how my two of my ancestors were sent to Siberian labor camps in the middle of the night, one of them under Stalin. Don't lecture me about dictators.

The only way to prevent dictatorships is to give people peace and freedom, not take them away. There, I win.

[SuperSonicMewtwo]

why are we in iraq? let's see off the top of my head... i can't quote directly, so i'll have to paraphrase, "those who harbor terrorists ARE terrorists." i think that's a good enough reason.

gasp! he won! how? because his logic says he did! Bob Barker shall give you a prize, because you say you won.

explain to me though... let's say we have a country. with a dictator like Stalin. and he's doing his dictator thing. how exactly do you go about giving the people peace and freedom? do you just ask Stalin, hey dude, how about we let the people choose what they want? i'm getting the feeling it's NOT quite that easy to bring about democracy.

[DarkTemplarZero]

Prevent dictatorships, not fix those in place. I see the United States headed towards a dictatorship because people are so willing to throw away their rights and the rights of others for a little safety, and most of those people live in freaking Texas where no right minded person would waste their time attacking.

And while granted there is no real quick way to bring about democracy from dictatorship, these things take time, but the way to democracy is definitely not invading, destroying infrastructure, and taking their oil.

And next you'll quote Bill O'Reilly (may he break a leg, literally) and say that groups like Amnesty International and the ACLU are terrorists. What a douchebag. Not only do you look like Michael Bolton from office space, but you're an idiot too.

[Roy Karrde]

Well back on topic after some of the most disgusting off topic discussion.

Two toss up states have been decided, Tenn is going Republican. New Jersey is staying Democrat. Three toss ups remain Clair (D) has a one point lead in one state. Tester (D) in Montana has a one point lead with Burns (R) bringing new ads out about how Tester will raise taxes. In Virginia, George Alan (R) is tied with Jim Webb (D) for the first time in weeks, which is a Red state.

So that is the toss up states just a weekend before the election. The Democrats need six seats and it really looks like it will not happen.

[Heald]

The second ad it says "Outlaw Violent or Pornographic Video Games" anyway I actually support the second ad even though it goes against the industry I am working so hard to get into. NO not Pedophillia, Video Games.

lolz

But seriously it actually says 'Outlaw the SALE of violent or pornographic video games to minors', which is worthless, since the ESRB already has measures in place and there are penalties to those who try to circumvent the age restrictions. Making an entirely new system for just one state would be a complete waste of time and money.

The reason I support the Ad is becuase I wouldn't mind seeing the death penilty used for Child Molesters.

Child Molesters and Rapists, those are the two sickning things in society that you cannot rehabilitate through treatment, thus since they become no use to society and a danger to those around them. Why should we let them out of jail?

Death penalty would be a great deterrant, but only for repeat offenders. I would argue that it is possible to rehabilitate one-time offenders, but if they do reoffend, then frankly the death penalty is too good for them.

Anyway, that isn't what this topic is about.

Then again, neither have the last 20 or so posts.

Last time I checked people, this topic was about something no one really cared about, not controversial topics such as abortion, Iraq and boobs.

[Jeff]

Hey, 2004 called, they want their thread back.

Anyway to at least try and keep this on topic, I heard on the radio this morning that according to a Baltimore Sun poll both the Senate race and the gubunetorial race here in Maryland are now too close to call, this is pretty interesting considering we have been a pretty hardcore blue state for so long, and that the democratic canidates have mostly been in the lead so far. I guess the same can be said for Virginia only the other way around.

[Asilynne]

Woot Virginia is an important state for once!
I am of course going to vote, its my civic duty after all ^v^
As for who to vote for well lolz
I was going to say some stuff about what was going on in this thread but damn, after the last page and a half I feel my iq has gone down significantly, where do you people get these things? I think its funny how people who hate republicans/christians/insert popular thing to hate here are all like Have an open mind your so close minded whinge whinge whinge and yet they have a closed mind and an extreme opinion. Thats one thing.

Another thing is I know if someone started talking about my cleavage (which they probably wouldnt since I dont take pics showing it anyway lol) I would be severely embarrassed even if itwas a complement. Im sure saying "damn shes got a fine ass" is considered a complement but it would be grounds for a smacking lol. And Im sure she didnt post that pic so people could drool and jack off to her cleavage so yeah thats not only off subject but rude. Anyway thats just my two cents about those off subject things so back onto subject for me *drags self back to subject at hand*

I really hope this election goes to George alan, I dont like webb and I was severly disappointed in my fellow Virginians when Tim Kaine took Gov, a catholic that supports abortion? Please no catholic in their right mind would do that. They dont even believe in birth control for heavens sake. I think the reason it seems like democrats are more human rights is because they are good at telling people what they want to hear. Oftentimes people dont want the truth, they like the lies that make them feel safe and happy. When reality isnt always safe and happy. John Kerry wont lose for telling a joke, he will lose because he IS a joke, where he stands is what is popular at the moment. He wants to please everyone all the time and you just cant do that. And God forbid if I was a democrat Id hate him because of the person he is too, I dont like weak minded wishy washy people that dont have their own opinions lol To me as a person he seems very insecure and I just cant respect that, whether its respecting him as a man or as a president. So reguardless of peoples feelings about Bush you have to admit that at least hes firm about something, you can see where he stands.

Ok at great risk I stepped into this topic because from experience Ive seen these topics get really mean and personal ^-^() So disagree with me, please, if you must, but lets not get hostle and rude. I dont like arguing with people in a hostle and personal environment, sorry if you guys do lol ^-^()

[Mewtwo-D2]

Another voting Virginian here. I vote in every election.

I would like to keep the thread on topic, but DarkTemplarZero, perhaps you could tell my father, who holds two Masters Degrees and was a colonel in the Air Force by his retirement, that he is lazy and ignorant. After all, he only starting working at age 6, in 1947, for about 25 cents a day. He only won academic scholarships that gave him the opportunity to go to college- though he worked all through college too. He only went to war to protect his country- twice. But, he was military. The bum. Working from 1947-1994. Real lay-about he is.

I just want to ask who in the blue hell do you think you are to disparage the men and women who give you your freedom of speech? Without the United States military, you wouldn't be able to sit in front of your nice computer and type grammatically incorrect rants against them. If we ran our military the way the Democrats keep trying to get us to, we would've been destroyed long ago.

Not that I think Republicans are much better than Democrats. The party for small government should actually work to be small government, and stop pandering. Have you noticed that if a Democrat calls a Republican a filthy, lying son of a whore, the Republican spends days publically praising said Democrat's record before meekly suggesting that his mother was more of a slut than a whore? All the pork and pandering in the government makes me sick.

Actually, I think most people would be in favor of my idea for Congress. Instead of simply releasing scathing press reports, I think there should be a system of Congressional dueling. American Gladiators-style. I'd watch C-SPAN if we could see politicians beating each other with foam staffs.

[Master Rudy]

Ok......this whole WMD's thing is the one thing that always gets me about Bush haters. For one it's not just the US. As others have said British intel was also one of many groups involved. Even if Saddam didn't have the damn things keep in mind that trying to get yellowcake shows he was wanting them. And also my arguement is this.......Iraq is very big desert with a whole shitload of sand. Chose a random point in the country and bury something there. Granted WMD's aren't exactly that small but when you consider how large the country is does the term "needle in a haystack" mean anything? You guys watch. They keep finding mass graves with his victims. One day someone's gonna go digging for something and hit paydirt. May not happen for many years but it will. Mark my words.

As for Kerry all I can do is point and laugh. That ass is the guy many people wanted over Bush? Please......he'd have no idea what to do and would be jumping the fence so many times over that no one would know what's happening anymore. And don't get me started on the mess I believe we'd be in right now if Gore won in 2000. Clinton showed how wonderfully inactive he was while getting his dick sucked. His robot helper that claims he invented the internet wouldn't have been much better in my eyes.

The way I see it, all television, newspaper and even radio media is now so heavily biased that it's impossible to get a clear picture of the world. At least with the net, I can roll the dice and pray that what I'm seeing is accurate.

Too true Pika. I remember a few years back when we first got to Iraq that one local news program back when I was still in Cincy was interviewing a recently returned Marine. All the questions pointed towards Bush basing yet the Marine kept his cool and said he agreed with the President and managed to shoot down everything that was trying to make him look like the enemy. Eventually it got to the point where the reporter was trying to steamroll over everything this guy was saying and before it was all over actually cut off the interview by claiming "technical difficulites" in the middle of what he was saying. Despite saying they were working to fix the problem they never went back to him.

Stuff like that makes me sad that I've got a degree in broadcasting sometimes......

[Blademaster]

Actually, I think most people would be in favor of my idea for Congress. Instead of simply releasing scathing press reports, I think there should be a system of Congressional dueling. American Gladiators-style. I'd watch C-SPAN if we could see politicians beating each other with foam staffs.

Seconded.

[DarkTemplarZero]

Mewtwo-D2: Please, my father also served in the military, both my grandparents and my dad were Red Army officers, although my father left as soon as he could to get his doctorate and teach at the University. And second of all, I'm discussing soldiers in modern times, because as John Kerry said in something he wrote in the late 70's, volunteer armies are full of idiots.

Third, I'm honoring the sacrifices of all the people who fought by voicing my utter disgust of Conservatives. They fought for an America that is at the forefront of human rights, that refuses to torture or hold people without charge, where the people were free to do what they please, the land of the free and the home of the brave. Not the land of the fear-mongers and home to those who think wearing a turban is cause to torture. You disgust me. You claim that I am un-American when you're destroying the very PRINCIPLES the United States was founded on. Honestly, you are a sickening human being and I sincerely hope that you actually find a rational thought in your brain at some point in the near future.

And as for Asilynne, I like cleavage. Seriously, it's not a crime to say something like that, regardless of what Roy Karrde may say.

"As for Kerry all I can do is point and laugh. That ass is the guy many people wanted over Bush? Please......he'd have no idea what to do and would be jumping the fence so many times over that no one would know what's happening anymore. "
Rudy, get out. Seriously man, to debate politics you have to KNOW something, not just regurgitate partisan bickering. And if you hadn't noticed, the "documents" which stated that Iraq had gotten Uranium were forged. So please, it's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought an idiot then to open it and remove all doubt.

[Roy Karrde]

First the documents about Uranium for Iraq were not forged and the British stand by them to this day. Second I laugh at you telling anybody to get out. You are the biggest most bigoted Partican hack that this board has seen for a while. Third you want to talk about human rights? Where was the UN and Liberals when Saddam was gassing his own people? C'mon Democrats are the party that is supposed to stand up for those things right?

What about Robert Byrd? Democrats are about human rights right? Why do they have a ex KKK member in their party? I don't see Republicans making racist remarks like "The only reason you would see this many blacks in a room at a Republican Convention would be if the clean up staff was in here"

As for destroying the principles America was founded on? America was founded on the idea that any man or woman can work hard, make a living for himself, and pull himself up. That is why so many immigrants come over here, becuase America is the land of Opertunity. But that isn't what you hear from Hillary Clinton and her ilk. They would rather cuddle those that do not work, want to see Democrat and Socialist ideals at work? Look at France, double digit unemployment! That is socialism at work, that is the democrat party at work.

Now do all Democrats believe in socialist ideals? No, look at Joe Liberman, he didn't believe in the insane crap that you have been spewing DTZ and he was kicked out of the party. So yeah DTZ you keep talking the way you are right now, you sound like the Democrat party of Robert Byrd. Or should I say the KKK Democrat Party of Robert Byrd.

[Heald]

First the documents about Uranium for Iraq were not forged and the British stand by them to this day.

I still argue that British Intelligence is amongst the worst in the world. All our national newspapers report daily the blunders made by our secret services across the globe. James Bond? More like...James Oops, just been caught visiting a suspicious-looking rock in Russia. Yeah, take that, you assholes.

[Mewtwo-D2]

Mewtwo-D2: Please, my father also served in the military, both my grandparents and my dad were Red Army officers, although my father left as soon as he could to get his doctorate and teach at the University. And second of all, I'm discussing soldiers in modern times, because as John Kerry said in something he wrote in the late 70's, volunteer armies are full of idiots.

Being in the Red Army isn't really much to brag about. But if we're having a pissing contest, one grandfather was an officer during WWII, the other was unfortunately unable to enlist during WWI and was too old by the time WWII rolled around. Two great-grandfathers served in the American military (out of the other two- one was in Norway, and the other died young). I have quite a few friends in the military, have plans to join the military, or are recently out of the military.

And if volunteer armies are full of idiots, you'd prefer a draft be in place? I thought it was a triumph that the military is currently completely staffed by people who signed up to be there. If thinking that that's just dandy makes me a sickening human being, then so be it.

Third, I'm honoring the sacrifices of all the people who fought by voicing my utter disgust of Conservatives. They fought for an America that is at the forefront of human rights, that refuses to torture or hold people without charge, where the people were free to do what they please, the land of the free and the home of the brave. Not the land of the fear-mongers and home to those who think wearing a turban is cause to torture. You disgust me. You claim that I am un-American when you're destroying the very PRINCIPLES the United States was founded on. Honestly, you are a sickening human being and I sincerely hope that you actually find a rational thought in your brain at some point in the near future.

Without charge? Torture? What, specifically, are you referring to? Captured fighters from al Quaeda training camps who are sometimes humiliated? I don't think torture is right, and I don't think what has been classified as torture in this conflict is right- but I also fail to see how it is torture. To me torture is... oh, raping and beating a woman to death in front of her husband and children to get the husband to confess to a crime he never commited. You know, the sort of thing Saddam used to do all the time. Being photographed wearing a burqa and standing on a box doesn't even register compared to that.

I never called you un-American, but how is it destroying American principles to think that we should engage in all-out war with people who want to kill us? Bin Laden is not going to play nicely, whether Republicans or Democrats are in office. What, you think if we get a Democrat as president and send Bin Laden some bribes, he'll come over for a tea party at Camp David and we'll kiss and make up? Muslim extremists hate Americans and they want us all dead. Hell, Muslim extremists hate other Muslims and want everyone who does not follow their narrow idealogy dead. What I believe we should do is engage in all-out war against these lunatics.

I know perfectly well most Muslims are peaceful, before you try to twist my words around. But the ones who gang-rape women for being uncovered, the ones who dance in the streets when Americans are slaughtered, the ones who say that Jews are a race of swine and should be exterminated, the ones who riot and murder and rape at the drop of a hat- we should stamp them out just like we did the Nazis. They also want world domination- and they aren't simply going to stop trying to put the entire planet under Sharia law because we let them get away with murdering some Americans. The only way to deal with these people is to crush their leadership without mercy. They are spreading an idealogy of evil.

If you think it's irrational for me not to take the 'If we're nice to them, maybe they'll go away' stance, then you're insane. They've shown quite clearly that they have no desire to get along with us. And if it's America or radical Islam, then my lot is firmly with America.


Oh, and on a minor point, if you've read the report on the Niger-Iraqi forgeries, the forgery stated that Iraq had not approached Niger to purchase uranium. Considering that Niger's one major export is uranium, what do you think the Iraqis were there to trade for? Fishing lures? Embargoed American breakfast cereal perhaps?

Democrats and Republicans both told us Saddam was trying to develop nuclear weapons (including both Clintons and Al Gore). The British told us. The Germans, the French, the Italians, the Russians, and the Polish told us. The Spanish and the Saudis told us. Our own Intelligence told us. Iran told us, for Christ's sakes. Our satellites showed us a lot of suspicious activity. The UN was suspicious and they told us Saddam was trying to develop stronger WMD's too. Every weapons inspector that went into Iraq came out suspicious of Saddam. Saddam had threatened us. He had had an active program in the past. He had used WMD's in the past. Do you really think he threw his program out because an impotent debating society like the UN told him to knock it off?
So, if it was "faulty intelligence" that led to the war in Iraq, then Saddam must've been putting up one hell of a charade for the benefit of us and half of Europe. And for what reason? Answer me that.

[Gavin Luper]

OK, so - being an Aussie we don't know or care much about US politics, so this stuff is getting only a tiny bit of coverage in the media and as such I don't really understand how the Mid-Term elections work as opposed to the main elections; but I've always wanted to understand what's going on here. Is it simply a case of whoever gets the most states wins control of the senate or is there something more involved than that? If someone could explain it that would be cool, I'm sure it's been elucidated somewhere through the many posts in this topic but I still don't really grasp the whole five-state race thingy. From your post before, Roy, does this mean that if the democrats don't get six more seats, the entire senate is effectively controlled by Republicans still? (... I really don't have a mind for those aspects of politics. ^_^)

Incidentally, I don't think anyone expected a political thread like this NOT to be derailed by subsequent loosely-related topics, but DTZ you've succeeded spectacularly. If you could just produce one shred of rationality in your arguments, that would be most appreciated by all. It appears that you've developed a blanket theory about Conservatism and are sticking to your extremist opinions, most of which are entirely mistaken - or to be more accurate (as we are dealing with opinions, not fact), mass-generalised and poorly-formed - without concession to the very valid points of those who you are debating with. More to the point, it's overwhelmingly futile debating the merits of a war that already began three and a half years ago; it's 2006, almost all political leaders of note agree that pulling out of Iraq right now would be to the further detriment of that country, regardless of those leaders' opinions on whether we should have gone to war in the first place. For the sake of a decent political debate, try to back up some of your rather bigoted arguments (eg. one of my favourites, "Conservativism, quite frankly, is evil.") with some facts, otherwise your argument is so disjointed and reactionary that you don't really have a leg to stand on; and if you can't any facts to back up your somewhat baseless opinions, perhaps you need to reexamine some of them.

Some people join these debates to stir up some heated or controversial discussion, which, in my opinion, is a little irritating but ultimately all in the spirit of things. If you're gonna do it, though, at least do it properly. That entails not using insults and unnecessary personal attacks to further your argument, so please refrain.

And lastly, I've gotta say to Mewtwo-D2, well said in regards to the War on Terror/Iraq.

Cheers!

[DarkTemplarZero]

First the documents about Uranium for Iraq were not forged and the British stand by them to this day. Second I laugh at you telling anybody to get out. You are the biggest most bigoted Partican hack that this board has seen for a while. Third you want to talk about human rights? Where was the UN and Liberals when Saddam was gassing his own people? C'mon Democrats are the party that is supposed to stand up for those things right?

What about Robert Byrd? Democrats are about human rights right? Why do they have a ex KKK member in their party? I don't see Republicans making racist remarks like "The only reason you would see this many blacks in a room at a Republican Convention would be if the clean up staff was in here"

As for destroying the principles America was founded on? America was founded on the idea that any man or woman can work hard, make a living for himself, and pull himself up. That is why so many immigrants come over here, becuase America is the land of Opertunity. But that isn't what you hear from Hillary Clinton and her ilk. They would rather cuddle those that do not work, want to see Democrat and Socialist ideals at work? Look at France, double digit unemployment! That is socialism at work, that is the democrat party at work.

Now do all Democrats believe in socialist ideals? No, look at Joe Liberman, he didn't believe in the insane crap that you have been spewing DTZ and he was kicked out of the party. So yeah DTZ you keep talking the way you are right now, you sound like the Democrat party of Robert Byrd. Or should I say the KKK Democrat Party of Robert Byrd.

Wow dude, typical Texan, doesn't know anything. Even the Daily Show discussed the report which said that those documents were forged. Here's a CNN article for ya: http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/03/14/spr...nts/index.html. I win. Shut up n00bs. Go cry in the corner. And actually, democrats don't support human rights unless they feel like it, they're politicians, remember. I'm embarrassed to say that Lautenberg and Menendez here in New Jersey voted for the Military Commisions Act, the most degrading piece of legislature in the history of the United States.

Now, when the Soviet Union was around wasn't everyone in the U.S. all human rights and international cooperation while the Soviet Union tortured and refused to cooperate with anyone who didn't have similar beliefs? Didn't Reagan call the Soviet Union "evil"? So what are we now? We're becoming the Soviet Union, what we most despised not 20 years ago. USSR invaded Afghanistan with little to no provocation with disasterous results, similar with us and Iraq. USSR never cooperated with the Western nations, USA refuses to sign on to the International Criminal Court, the Kyoto Protocol, hell even the Convention on the Rights of Women whose name I can't remember at the moment. What do you have to say to that?

and as for Mewtwo-D2;

I'm referring to the military commissions act. For further explanations, I'll redirect you to Jon Stewart;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDs4E_fJUes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN6mpP_uoUU
The Military Commissions Act basically gives the government the right to hold people without charge and torture them however they please without giving them the right to a fair trial because they refuse to give these people any rights under the Geneva Conventions. If you think I'm exaggerating (well I am, slightly);
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militar...ns_Act_of_2006

"Muslim extremists hate Americans and they want us all dead." Indeed, I'm not disputing this. However, you think you can just kill a lot of them and they'll go away? According to a white house report, the invasion of Iraq has already created the next generation of terrorists. People in the middle east are being told we're evil, if we go around killing everyone we see then we're removing all doubt. How about being the bigger man and saying "We will defend ourselves on the home front and legally prosecute those who we do capture, but we will treat them humanely and we will not harm civilians". If we can show the less extreme majority of the middle east that we're not the Great Satan, then we can do far more damage to terrorist organizations than we could ever do with bombs and missiles. Your average middle eastern citizen would probably be willing to blow themselves up if American soldiers "accidently" killed their families, but if no American had ever harmed them in any way then they won't particularly care and what you'll be left with is the terrorist organizations themselves, who you can track through covert means and prevent attacks. But whatever, if you consider that "be nice and they'll go away" then go ahead and think that way and leave generations of terrorists as your legacy to your children and your grandchildren.

And Gavin Luper, really, just kiss my ass. I have made more than my share of good points, I have cited specific examples and given sources, and you call THAT not having a shred of rationality? Wow man, you need a fucking brain, you're turning into Sean Hannity here. Thank Buddha that you live in somewhere in western Australia where your stupidity can't really harm anyone.

[mr_pikachu]

O-kay. Since Gavin clearly knows way lot more about American politics than I do about Australian politics, I think he's entitled to an explanation.

You've pretty much got the idea, Gavin. See, aside from the President, Vice President, and such, we have two major groups of people in the "ruling" branch of government. (I don't remember the official name of the branch offhand and I can't be bothered to look it up.) Those two groups are the House of Representatives and the Senate.

Each of the 50 states has a certain number of members in both the House and the Senate. In the House, the number of members you are allowed to have is determined by the number of citizens living in the state. (Consequently, the number of Representatives for different states can change from time to time.) In the Senate, each state gets exactly two Senators.

Now, for a new bill to be passed into law, it must be passed by a certain number of members in both the House and the Senate (again, I forget the exact numbers, but I don't think it's just a majority vote in both). Then it must be signed into law by the President. (If it is "vetoed," or not signed, then there are measures to override the veto. But let's not get into that.)

So whoever controls the House and Senate has a significant impact on the laws of our nation, as that control is a major factor is determining what bills will even reach the President's desk.

In this case, we're looking at what are called the midterm elections for the Senate. See, we have a new election for the President every four years. However, Senators have elections every six years. (The elections for the 100 Senate seats are also spaced out in periods of two years, so not all of the seats in the Senate have elections at any given time.) Since we will sometimes have Senate elections between the years with Presidential elections, those in-between years are called the midterm elections - since they are in the middle of the President's term.

*gasps for air*

I think I covered everything. Just give a shout if there's anything I didn't explain well or that I forgot to mention, Gav!

[Roy Karrde]

Hey look Grand Dragon Dark Templar Zero posted! Typical Texan? It's sad that you go around and spout things like the Kyoto. Anyway just as was said before Joe Wilson has said that he did not actually spend time looking around Niger, that is why the documents are a forgery. Joe Wilson said that there wasn't any there when he was wrong. And then in 2004, a year after your link was dated, British Intel came out backing there claim that Iraq went to Niger. Looks like another loss for Grand Dragon Dark Templar Zero.

The British government has said repeatedly it stands by intelligence it gathered and used in its controversial September 2002 dossier on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programmes. It still claims that Iraq had sought uranium from Niger.

But the US intelligence community, officials and politicians, are publicly sceptical, and the public differences between the two allies on the issue have obscured the evidence that lies behind the UK claim.


...The FT has now learnt that three European intelligence services were aware of possible illicit trade in uranium from Niger between 1999 and 2001. Human intelligence gathered in Italy and Africa more than three years before the Iraq war had shown Niger officials referring to possible illicit uranium deals with at least five countries, including Iraq.

This intelligence provided clues about plans by Libya and Iran to develop their undeclared nuclear programmes. Niger officials were also discussing sales to North Korea and China of uranium ore or the "yellow cake" refined from it: the raw materials that can be progressively enriched to make nuclear bombs.

The raw intelligence on the negotiations included indications that Libya was investing in Niger's uranium industry to prop it up at a time when demand had fallen, and that sales to Iraq were just a part of the clandestine export plan. These secret exports would allow countries with undeclared nuclear programmes to build up uranium stockpiles.

...Information gathered in 1999-2001 suggested that the uranium sold illicitly would be extracted from mines in Niger that had been abandoned as uneconomic by the two French-owned mining companies - Cominak and Somair, both of which are owned by the mining giant Cogema - operating in Niger.

"Mines can be abandoned by Cogema when they become unproductive. This doesn't mean that people near the mines can't keep on extracting," a senior European counter-proliferation official said.

And I find it funny you are comparing us to the USSR's invasion of Afghanistan. We had ten years of Iraq avoiding sanctions, and shooting down US aircraft, supporting terrorism, plotting a assassination of a former President, and killing his own people. Each one of those can be used as a delcaration of war. But I am pretty sure you never considered it Grand Dragon.

As for going against the Geniva Convention. If you are so hip on the Geniva Convention, you should know that the Geniva Convention does not apply to those with out a Military Uniform. Thus they do not apply to Terrorist. But in your bigotry you probably forgot about that.

Anyway I will allow Mewtwo D2 to continue, I do have one question, when is your next Rally Grand Dragon? You know the one where you group all Texans, Americans, and Conservatives together.

[Mewtwo-D2]

Wow dude, typical Texan, doesn't know anything. Even the Daily Show discussed the report which said that those documents were forged. Here's a CNN article for ya: http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/03/14/spr...nts/index.html. I win. Shut up n00bs. Go cry in the corner. And actually, democrats don't support human rights unless they feel like it, they're politicians, remember. I'm embarrassed to say that Lautenberg and Menendez here in New Jersey voted for the Military Commisions Act, the most degrading piece of legislature in the history of the United States.

First off, genius, I'm from Virginia. I say so quite clearly in my first both in this thread. I could say typical narrow-minded, bigotted New York liberal, who has his head so far up his ass he can't think of people from Texas as anything but the stereotypes he hears in jokes. Way to be open-minded, kid!

Second- the Daily Show? You send me a ]http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/03/world/middleeast/03documents.html?ex=1320210000&en=ba99ceafb0f67900 &ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss[/url]

Since you seem to have trouble reading- check out paragraph 13 of the article:
Among the dozens of documents in English were Iraqi reports written in the 1990s and in 2002 for United Nations inspectors in charge of making sure Iraq had abandoned its unconventional arms programs after the Persian Gulf war. Experts say that at the time, Mr. Hussein’s scientists were on the verge of building an atom bomb, as little as a year away.

2002? Isn't that... *gasp* when we invaded? Wowee! If the New York Times admits it, it must be true! Much better than a link to a liberal comedy-news program.

Now, when the Soviet Union was around wasn't everyone in the U.S. all human rights and international cooperation while the Soviet Union tortured and refused to cooperate with anyone who didn't have similar beliefs? Didn't Reagan call the Soviet Union "evil"? So what are we now? We're becoming the Soviet Union, what we most despised not 20 years ago. USSR invaded Afghanistan with little to no provocation with disasterous results, similar with us and Iraq. USSR never cooperated with the Western nations, USA refuses to sign on to the International Criminal Court, the Kyoto Protocol, hell even the Convention on the Rights of Women whose name I can't remember at the moment. What do you have to say to that?

So... 48 countries is no longer considered "international cooperation"?
For Kyoto- A, it's useless, and B, even the liberal demigod, Bill Clinton wouldn't sign it. That's supposed to convince me that we're becoming the Soviet Union?
For the ICCt- why should the US have to to an international community that's often against us to prosecute our worst criminals? One-world government only works in science fiction.
For the last, I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Mostly I've just heard you complain about how the US refuses to hand their sovereignty over to a toothless, impotent debating society.

For the no provocation- Saddam paid dividends to the families of suicide bombers. His country was described as a rat's nest of terrorist activity. Terrorist groups from all over the world had outposts in Iraq. Even if Saddam didn't wine and dine them all individually, you can bet your boots he knew they were there. And the fact that his government shelled out dividends for the families of suicide bombers- well, I find it hard to believe he was ignorant of that too. See, under regimes like Saddam's, where your wife and daughters are under constant threat of rape, your entire family is in danger of being tried for treason, tortured, and executed, and you have no food and no money, and being told that if you blow yourself up the rest of your family will have money, it suddenly seems a more attractive position.

Are you saying we should cooperate with brutal dictators, and maybe they'll play nicely? Maybe we should send them whopping great gobs of cash, like Clinton did with Kim Jong Il. After all, dear old Kim has been a darling and a fine citizen of the international community ever since. And the fact that North Korea is always in darkness just shows his commitment to Kyoto.

and as for Mewtwo-D2;

I'm referring to the military commissions act. For further explanations, I'll redirect you to Jon Stewart;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDs4E_fJUes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN6mpP_uoUU
The Military Commissions Act basically gives the government the right to hold people without charge and torture them however they please without giving them the right to a fair trial because they refuse to give these people any rights under the Geneva Conventions. If you think I'm exaggerating (well I am, slightly);
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militar...ns_Act_of_2006

You're going to have to do better than Jon Stewart and Wikipedia. Neither one is what a person would call reliable.

"Muslim extremists hate Americans and they want us all dead." Indeed, I'm not disputing this. However, you think you can just kill a lot of them and they'll go away? According to a white house report, the invasion of Iraq has already created the next generation of terrorists. People in the middle east are being told we're evil, if we go around killing everyone we see then we're removing all doubt. How about being the bigger man and saying "We will defend ourselves on the home front and legally prosecute those who we do capture, but we will treat them humanely and we will not harm civilians". If we can show the less extreme majority of the middle east that we're not the Great Satan, then we can do far more damage to terrorist organizations than we could ever do with bombs and missiles. Your average middle eastern citizen would probably be willing to blow themselves up if American soldiers "accidently" killed their families, but if no American had ever harmed them in any way then they won't particularly care and what you'll be left with is the terrorist organizations themselves, who you can track through covert means and prevent attacks. But whatever, if you consider that "be nice and they'll go away" then go ahead and think that way and leave generations of terrorists as your legacy to your children and your grandchildren.

Okay- how about you talk to someone who was actually in Iraq. Like one of those dim-witted soldiers. You know the Iraqis killing us? They're Sunnis. All Sunnis. And they're killing us because they used to have power and now they don't. They're mad at us, and when Muslim extremists get mad, they riot and kill things. You know the other terrorists in the country? They're from Syria, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Turkey... pretty much whatever country harbors Muslim extremists.

And you think they'll love us if we just leave them alone? We tried that for quite some time, but considering how many terrorist organizations are in charge of governments over there, they aren't going to stop hating us until they have freedom and democracy. Once their children are no longer reading text books that claim that Jews eat the blood of Muslim children in Purim cakes and that Americans are the Great Satan is when they'll stop hating us. But personally, I think we should have public executions of convicted terrorists where their bodies are covered in pig's blood. I think there should be a bag of pig fat hanging from the roof of every bus that would concievably be blown up. I also think our soldiers should carry sides of bacon with them and throw a slice on every terrorist they kill.

My only problem with the war in Iraq is that we keep on refusing to let the soldiers fight this war, which is the problem we had in Vietnam. If there's any sure way to lose a war, it's to let the politicians muddle it up and refuse to let the military prosecute it. Although with every incoherent rant by Cindy Sheehan, the terrorists are listening, and they're gaining morale. Vietnam has admitted that they were often on the verge of surrendering, but the "peace movement" back home gave them encouragement to hang on. That's what the Muslim extremists are hoping for. They're hoping for America to prove itself a paper tiger once again and go scurrying away, so they can multiply unabated. They're like a cancer, and their school of thought must be obliterated from this world.

[DarkTemplarZero]

Wikipedia is not reliable? True for computer science this idiot professor from UC-Irvine makes retarded articles which I'm currently trying to fix, but for current events Wikipedia is pretty damn reliable. Hell, every claim it makes is backed up by official sources, so if Wikipedia's not reliable I don't know what is. And the Daily Show I grant you, it's comedy, but that is an actual picture from Guantanamo Bay and that is Bush's actual speech about the Geneva Conventions.

And second of all, great article, the Bush administration not only makes how to make a nuclear bomb public information, but also puts it on the internet. Brilliant. Just brilliant. That really makes me feel so safe.

"European diplomats said this week that some of those nuclear documents on the Web site were identical to the ones presented to the United Nations Security Council in late 2002, as America got ready to invade Iraq. But unlike those on the Web site, the papers given to the Security Council had been extensively edited, to remove sensitive information on unconventional arms."
Omg, this article is hysterical. More Bush idiocy.

Now, let's see, in law they call this habeas corpus: if Saddam has a nuclear weapons program, where are the actual weapons? No weapons inspectors could find anything, the United States military hasn't found anything, so where are they? In the foundation of the Opera Garnier?

I don't call a global war international cooperation. Now let us take a look at the countries that are allies to the United States in the "War on Terror". Ukraine, who's massive stockpile of Soviet arms is fueling the Genocide in Sudan. Slovakia, where people with mental disabilities in psychiatric hospitals are placed in cages. Bulgaria, where people in social care homes are often thrown in prison for no reason. Russia, who still manages to torture more people than the United States. What great allies. Oh wait, all of them have ratified the entire UN Women's Convention, while the United States refuses to ratify part of it.

Next, the Kyoto Protocol was useless? Let me guess, you refuse to accept global warming? The protocol asked all nations to reduce their emissions by 5.2% under what they were in 1990 by 2012. It doesn't seem like much, but it's a step in the right direction to keep us from destroying the Earth. Hell, even China signed on to it.
International Criminal Court. Oh sure, the United States was all for the idea during Nuremberg, but now that actual Americans might be tried for raping Iraqi women it's a bad thing? Hell if I remember correctly the United States was even supporting Spain for trying General Pinochet for crimes against humanity. International Law is good, unless it will try one of our own. In math we call that a proof by contradiction. You fail.
And the last thing is the UN Women's Convention, of which the United States has not ratified part of.

"But personally, I think we should have public executions of convicted terrorists where their bodies are covered in pig's blood. I think there should be a bag of pig fat hanging from the roof of every bus that would concievably be blown up. I also think our soldiers should carry sides of bacon with them and throw a slice on every terrorist they kill."
Wow man, isn't that just what you were saying they believed about us? They believe that we do things like that, so we have to go out and confirm it? I see your logic, very much.

Mewtwo-D2, honestly, I really hope that you stay a virgin, because people like you don't belong in humanity's gene pool.

[Roy Karrde]

Wikipedia is not reliable? True for computer science this idiot professor from UC-Irvine makes retarded articles which I'm currently trying to fix, but for current events Wikipedia is pretty damn reliable. Hell, every claim it makes is backed up by official sources, so if Wikipedia's not reliable I don't know what is. And the Daily Show I grant you, it's comedy, but that is an actual picture from Guantanamo Bay and that is Bush's actual speech about the Geneva Conventions.

Wikipedia can be heavily edited, especially political articles. That is why they had to shut down things like editing the George W Bush page, becuase idiots like you did things to that page.

And second of all, great article, the Bush administration not only makes how to make a nuclear bomb public information, but also puts it on the internet. Brilliant. Just brilliant. That really makes me feel so safe.

The documents were not US documents or US Science Research, they were Iraqi Documents. Funny how the New York times is suddenly worried about releasing state secrets. Oh Noes! BTW If they were Iraqi Documents does that not prove Iraq was trying to reach nukes?

Now, let's see, in law they call this habeas corpus: if Saddam has a nuclear weapons program, where are the actual weapons? No weapons inspectors could find anything, the United States military hasn't found anything, so where are they? In the foundation of the Opera Garnier?

Iraq was seeking to build nuclear weapons as what was happening in Niger, which has been proven true. Seeking to build nuclear weapons is against the Gulf War treaty and is justifyable for war.

I don't call a global war international cooperation. Now let us take a look at the countries that are allies to the United States in the "War on Terror". Ukraine, who's massive stockpile of Soviet arms is fueling the Genocide in Sudan. Slovakia, where people with mental disabilities in psychiatric hospitals are placed in cages. Bulgaria, where people in social care homes are often thrown in prison for no reason. Russia, who still manages to torture more people than the United States. What great allies. Oh wait, all of them have ratified the entire UN Women's Convention, while the United States refuses to ratify part of it.

Funny how you pick off each of those countries while forgetting to add others like Japan, Italy, and others. Then again that isn't surprising coming from the Grand Dragon who likes to pick and choose information.

Next, the Kyoto Protocol was useless? Let me guess, you refuse to accept global warming? The protocol asked all nations to reduce their emissions by 5.2% under what they were in 1990 by 2012. It doesn't seem like much, but it's a step in the right direction to keep us from destroying the Earth. Hell, even China signed on to it.

You should also know that not a single country has been able to reach those emision standards. Also the Kyoto treaty does not punish or go after China and other developing countries in Eastern Asia in which emisions are at their worst and provide for most of the world's polution. The Kyoto treaty is useless, Clinton knew it, Bush knows it, and it will never be ratified.

Wow man, isn't that just what you were saying they believed about us? They believe that we do things like that, so we have to go out and confirm it? I see your logic, very much.

Do we use Children as Suicide Bombs? Do we call Women pieces of meat and that they deserve to be raped? Do we say that you have to follow a certain religion or you deserve death? Do we force Young Girls to stay in burning schools becuase they havn't worn the correct hood ornimant to go outside? Tell me how the two points are connected. Becuase one seems to be about spreading freedom and choices, like what we have done in Iraq, and another view point seems to be about slavery and hatred. Then again I could see how you could support the slavery and hatred idea. Grand Dragon.

Mewtwo-D2, honestly, I really hope that you stay a virgin, because people like you don't belong in humanity's gene pool.

What does a person's sex life have to deal with a debate? Unless you just want to take a cheap shot and you have no real points. It's really quite pathetic.

[Mewtwo-D2]

Hey, kid, I'm a girl. Just so you stop referring to me as 'dude' and 'man' all the time.

For the nuclear weapons- even if he didn't make a single bomb, the fact that he was trying his damndest was reason enough to depose him. You think he was going to use his nuclear bombs to toast a really, really big slice of bread? I think the minute he figured out how to make a nuclear bomb, he was going to try to take the world hostage by threatening all-out nuclear war. But my guess, all the weapons he did make are either buried in the desert or in Syria.

Signing the Kyoto Protocol is useless. It's a piece of paper. And no, I don't believe in global warming beyond simple shifts in Earth's temperature, like we've been experiencing for the last 140 million years. All these "scientists" who are wailing about how we're causing global warming were wailing about how we were causing another Ice Age 30 years ago. They're scientists in the same way Rachel Carson was. Or have you refused to accept that Silent Spring was a load of crap?

And my sex life has absolutely nothing to do with a snot-nosed, closed-minded, head-in-the-sand little punk. Try to think up some better insults, junior. And no, Wikipedia is not reliable. Try to cite it on a college term paper, and see how fast you flunk.

[Blademaster]

ENOUGH!

Grand Dragon Dark Templar Zero.

Wow dude, typical Texan, doesn't know anything.

snot-nosed, closed-minded, head-in-the-sand little punk

What is this?! See who can come up with the best insult? This thread is SUPPOSED to be to discuss the Senate elections, NOT target practice for whoever wants to squabble about the War in Iraq! You guys are supposed to be DEBATING, not slinging falmes and insults at each other left and right!

The troops are in Iraq - I may not like it, you may not like it - or maybe you do like it - and someone else agrees or disagrees with you, whatever. Get over it and get back on the right track for God's sake.

Thank you.

-Blademaster

[Mewtwo-D2]

I'm sorry for my insult-slinging. I was getting quite frustrated, but I shouldn't have crossed into his territory.

(It's been a long week- my stepmother is going through menopause )

[pokemaniacbill]

This topic is so painful and pointless it hurts. Two different approaches to politics, let alone differing views, colliding and there's a flamewar and egostroking machine. Remarkable. I truly hope you're proud of yourselves because this garbage is ridiculous. If you can't enter this kind of topic without getting angry, don't enter this kind of topic. Ever. *goes back to lurking*

[Musourenka]

I see the United States headed towards a dictatorship because people are so willing to throw away their rights and the rights of others for a little safety, and most of those people live in freaking Texas where no right minded person would waste their time attacking.

The US has been headed towards dictatorship since Woodrow Wilson's term, if not before. Federal Reserve Act? Federal Income Tax? Federal Trade Commission? The 63rd Congress is arguably the worst one in the history of the US. Anyways, this thing is not recent whatsoever.

Whatever American principles still exist today certainly don't resonate within any politician, and certainly not at the voting booth. Voting won't change a thing at all; everything will continue down the path to hell as normal no matter who gets voted in. The only solution I see is a complete rejection of any legitimacy the government supposedly has. That is why I refuse to vote in this election, and every election thereafter (despite voting in '02 and '04).

And yes, I chose Pancakes.

[Gavin Luper]

Cheers Brian, that's all I was looking for really, just some kind of basic background on it. Makes much more sense now.

[Master Rudy]

You know Zero it's funny how you say I've actually got to know something about the subject at hand before I show I'm an idiot. From the looks of things you seem to be picking and choosing the info. And if Jon Steward's little ragtag bunch of biased comedians and Wiki is the best you can come up with then it's a vrey weak arguement you make. I assure you I've done my research. Plus while I don't know too many I do know people that have been over there. One of the guys I used to know was a former Marine medic that was injuried over there and have to be sent back. There were a few cases where him and his group found enough weapons to supply a small group of terriorists in the hand of people that they originally didn't suspect.

My point is this: the people that would like to see America and the new Iraq fail have much to hide. Your everyday terrorist is going to praise America during the day but come nightfall him and his buddies are going to dig their AK's out of the sand and snipe our troops. In the case of Saddam it's going to be a little more than an assault rifle. Once again I'll say Iraq is this giant hot sandy place we call a desert. Once again I'll say that WMD is to desert as needle is to haystack. In both cases good luck finding them. I refuse to sink to your level and call you names as you've done with Roy and some of my friends. However I will say that if you cannot acknowledge the fact that Saddam had something to hide then you've got a serious problem with your view of the world. If Saddam seriously did not have a weapons program of some kind be it nuclear or viral and was not afraid of us uncovering something he shouldn't have then why the fuck did he spend so long playing cat and mouse with the inspectors? Those do not seem like the actions of an innocent man. Regardless of if the weapons exist or not (and for the record I'll once again say that I believe they do) if he so much had only the research then those were grounds enough for us to declare war. When you do reply Zero please don't go saying I'm biased or that I've got a narrow view or that I don't know what I'm talking about. Do not point me towards biased reports that'll support your view and ignore the real questions. Stay away from that. Instead I seriously want to hear your take on why Saddam would deny the UN inspectors for so long if there was nothing to hide.

On another note that's actually more towards the original topic I direct my next comments towards Musourenka. We're heading towards a dictatorship? Shit.....no one told me. Now I feel left out because I didn't get my swastika armband. You wanna see a real dictatorship look no futher than Nazi Germany during the Second World War. It's funny that you say in your sig that if you vote you can't complain. From my experience sometimes a person will vote and the person that they voted for doesn't get elected. Sounds like they've got a legitimate reason to complain then. If you say voting does not change a thing again then be sure to remind me to look for that list of all the times one vote did make a difference. I can't think of any prime examples but there were some good ones on it. In the meantime be sure you change your sig to read "If you don't vote you can't complain." Forgive me if I seem to be like an ass but while I do feel people are allowed to have their own opinions I cannot respect the opinions and rants of people who do not go out and vote. If something in this country pisses you off then do something about it. Your vote could be the one that makes a difference ^_~

[DarkTemplarZero]

Oh my ****ing god. I really think that you need to have your head examined, because that was the most idiotic rant I have ever seen. I can't believe I'm bringing myself down to the level where I'm debating with a guy who has an anime kiss in his sig, but this is just too damn easy. People like you are the reason why I own at Model UN, your arguments are pitiful, lack substance, and are just begging to get owned.

First of all, current events on Wikipedia are thoroughly editted and cite sources. There's nothing like having thousands of people editting the article to make sure that it's correct and neutral, unlike whatever news you read or watch. I grant you, Jon Stewart is a comedian and has a very rational point of view, but he gives the insane antics of politicians a comedic spin while telling the news. And while sometimes he may exaggerate for comedy, the segment on torture was actually very good if you watch it with an open mind.

Saddam may have had something to hide and yes Iraq is a desert, but again, habeas corpus. If he did have "large hidden stockpiles" as many said before the invasion, don't you think we would have found a little bit more than a single shell of inert mustard gas in 2004? Yes Iraq is a desert, but what is Saddam going to do, bury all the missiles he has in random places in the sand? Leave them lying around somewhere in the middle of the desert? Right. True he refused to let the inspectors in until late 2002 and it is suspicious, but perhaps he saw UN Weapons Inspectors as a prelude to American invasion, it wouldn't be the first time, just in 1998, even when the UN weapons inspectors said that 90-95% of Iraq's unconventional weapons had been destroyed, the US said nope and initiated Operation Desert Fox, bombing the crap out of Iraq. And also, that's another good point. Just four years ago much of Iraq's infrastructure was destroyed in Desert Fox, and just 7 years before that in Desert Storm, in-between which the UN said most of Iraq's stockpiles were gone. Do you honestly believe that in under four years Iraq could rebuild it's entire weapons program from scratch?

And yes, we are headed toward a dictatorship. Premier Bush. Look at the Military Commissions Act and the Patriot Act. The government can watch you for no reason, they can hold you without charge, they can torture you, they can deny you the right to a fair trial, legally they can do whatever the hell they want under those two pieces of legislature. If that trend continues, there will be a totalitarian dictatorship here in the United States not too long from now.

Oh and as for Mewtwo-D2, thanks, coming from you that's a complement. Two words: Darwin Award

[Roy Karrde]

DTZ, this argument has ended, all you are doing is flaming now. So lets stay on topic which is the Senate Midterm Elections.

I got drawn into this argument again becuase of your sad behavior and I will not again. Continue to flame others and I will ask for this topic to be closed by a Misc mod.

[Asilynne]

Probably what he wants Roy. might give him some sick feeling of power and satisfaction.
This topic isnt about iraq, but if you do want a topic about Iraq Zero then make one, dont clutter up a topic about US congress elections. While the two are arguably connected, it has gone way beyond reality and into a weird twisted fantasy world of paranoia and overhype. If America was a dictatorship or even remotely close to one, Zero and all his friends and family would have been rounded up and killed or tortured by now for speaking out against the government. Enjoy the fact that we live in a great country in which we get to argue about who to vote for or badmouth our leader without repercussions, because Iraq you couldnt do that. Put things into perspective, want to know what the iraqis think about their country and leader? Im not going to make you read dont worry, its movie time: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...m+people&hl=en

Many interviews were filmed shortly after Saddam was apprehended by the US. This is a dictatorship. The US is certainly nowhere remotely close to this, this vid almost made me cry.

But anyway enough. Rudy, I will ask you to keep on topic because you should know by now arguing with an idiot you will never win. The idiot will never learn and resort to cheap personal tactics to feel they have a sense of the "upper hand". An example that has already been said is his attack of your sig, which is laughable as your sig has nothing to do with the merit of your words. All your sig means is youre willing to have a banner that your girlfriend (me) made for you in your sig, and thats nothing to be ashamed of ^-^ One day when someone accidently falls in love with him he ll understand. So for me Rudy, dont argue with him anymore, its pointless, either he ll get it one day or he wont, but in the meantime theres no reasoning with him. So lets get this topic back ON topic and just ignore any offtopic things from now on.

Theres 2 more days until election day. I know that polls arent exactly accurate but anyone heard any word of what the polls are showing for all the states? Like the forecasted count of Repub and Demo's?

[DarkTemplarZero]

"DTZ, this argument has ended, all you are doing is flaming now. So lets stay on topic which is the Senate Midterm Elections."

True I have made fun of people for being idiots, but you failed to read my points as always. Or the more likely explanation is that you have no response.

And Asilynne is right, you can never win because you don't know how to debate properly. You talk a lot and only bring up a couple of half-decent points. However Asilynne, you forget. I was born in the Soviet Union. I was raised being told about people being rounded up and killed, about family and friends disappearing in the middle of the night. I know what it is like. And while I do appreciate the fact that I have free speech, I can't sit around idly while Cheney and O'Reilly go around telling people to think like them or they're terrorists and the government passes legislature which takes the first steps to totalitarianism (see above Military Commissions Act and Patriot Act). Now you may not care about your freedom, but I'd like my children to read 1984 and say "right, like that'll ever happen" instead of seeing it on a banned books list. That is why I'm a hardcore human rights activist and go around lobbying congressmen, because I could not stand to have such a thing happen. You say the video almost made you cry? Then go do something about it. Join Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, something along those lines, don't just sit there and say "oh that sucks" and go back to drawing or whatever the hell you do with your time.

And as for my love life, let's just say that you don't have to worry about it.

Anyway, as for the results, most independent analysts predict at least 15-20 House seats will go to the Democrats, and with that control of the house. As for the Senate, the most conservative estimates outside of the White House say about +3 for Democrats, although Virginia, Missouri, Tennessee, and Montana are too close to call and probably will swing things one way or another. Personally, I would love to see Tom DeLay's old seat fall to a Democrat.