2008 U.S. Presidential Election - Primaries

[firepokemon]

Roy - You are so out of touch its pathetic, I'm half way round the world from the US and even I know that immigration is no longer the issue that was. Its a republican issue and will not be a national issue, it may be an issue in southern states but those typically go to the Republicans anyway and not democrats. Romney is a fool and like Obama they're going to crash and crash fast. Both could potentially get the nominee but I guarantee you one thing, one or the other will crash and burn. Immigration may well be an issue where you live, but its not a national issue.

As for nobody in the democratic race having economic skills, thats bullshit. Stop believing the crap you're hearing. Thats why you have advisors and good advisors at that. If Clinton gets in, I would not have a worry at all, because she'll have the best team in terms of experience, Obama and Edwards on the other hand. We just don't know who'll they'll bring in. More importantly I would have thought though it isn't an issue either is that Romney doesn't have any foreign policy experience. You going to trust this man with foreign policy? Scary.

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Right I want to bring up Clinton. I don't agree with anything the democratic party really says, my thoughts particularly on economic issues are more in line with the republicans. But of course republicans are so conservative and hardly could be called progressive. But I want a Clinton win. Obama has enjoyed nothing but praise and good press, where are the people taking a look at what issues he wants to bring to the table, who are going to be his people in the white house and exactly what does this guy have that is so great? He is bound to burn at some stage. If its not in the democratic primary race, then its the national election, if its not that, it will be as President. Do you really want someone like him in the white house? I would think its scary.

The Clintons are a machine but they've also been manufac tured as some dirty team that enjoys nothing more than dirty politics. Obama is playing the race card and the black community is playing the race car. Clinton was right about his win in South Carolina. 53% of all blacks voted Obama.

And what is with the youth vote in the US? You people are pathetic. Obama will fail, at some stage and you lot will be responsible for that.

As for Rudy Guliani - If Rudy can't analyse the primary process in america, how the fuck is going to run as President? I mean what a fool, if he got third placements in Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina and then Michigan and Nevada, he'd be on the news and his poll numbers would be up and he would have won the Florida primary and he would have won Super Tuesday and he'd prolly make it to the whitehouse. But no he couldn't even run a Primary caucus.

And what the fuck is up with Mitt Romney. Hes an abolsute slimeball. If he wins there will be plenty of dirt on him, you can be sure of that. He copies the other republicans and what they say such as his famous Michigan win where I swear he watched Huckabee closely. As for being so rude and arrogant like when he basically pushed McCain aside just so he could celebrate his Michigan win. I mean what a fucking joke. He's a bullshitter a businessman and he would ruin the republican party, I am quite sure of that.

Mike Huckabee is a christian running a godlike campaign, its disgusting and this guy doesn't seem to have any good skills whatsoever. Hes a loser.

John Edwards is another loser and I can't believe some people like Heald likes this guy.

McCain - Now theres someone with conviction, I can't agree with ever going to Iraq it was a stupid mistake that Fox News and all media really liked to propogate until it all went wrong so they decided to go down the other extreme route. If you go into Iraq you really have to stay there, because the last thing anbyone needs is Chaos. And who had the conviction and the know-how even though some republicans were going down the path pulling out troops. McCain. And don't bring up that he wanted an amnesty bill or that he didn't vote for taxes. Thats just bullshit spin from the pathetic far-right, the conservative right. The right side of politics that no other country in the world likes.

So how will the rest of the campaign go.

Whoever wins the republican Florida race will win. If McCain wins, Romney will do well but hes a moron and most americans will find that out. If Romney wins Florida, he will become even more a phoney on his pathetic economic issues (he basically said bullshit to the Michigan people) and with his money theres a good chance he wins but I don't think you can count out McCain.

As for the democratic side. Well I don't get the Clinton hate, I think its bullshit from the extremes of the democratic party. Obama will burn at some stage, you'll regret letting Clinton not wi. But to be honest I think Clinton takes Super Tuesday though with how the delegates work, it'll be a long process but that could be good for Clinton. Because Obama will one day crash.

Oh American politics how absolutely phoney, no wonder the rest of the world can't understand Americans you're so stuck on issues the rest of the world has forgotten.

[Roy Karrde]

Roy - You are so out of touch its pathetic, I'm half way round the world from the US and even I know that immigration is no longer the issue that was.

Is that why it constantly polls in the top 3 - 5 issues for this country? How about getting you stop speaking out of your ass?

it may be an issue in southern states but those typically go to the Republicans anyway and not democrats.

Illegal Immigrants have found their way all the way up to New York, which is why you are seeing so much talk about it, it is a national issue.

Besides if it was just a Republican issue, the Democrats would not have gone on Spansh Television to debate it.

Romney is a fool and like Obama they're going to crash and crash fast. Both could potentially get the nominee but I guarantee you one thing, one or the other will crash and burn.

We will see tonight for Obama.

Immigration may well be an issue where you live, but its not a national issue.

Its also a issue in places like Iowa, Kansas, Florida, New Hampshire...

As for nobody in the democratic race having economic skills, thats bullshit. Stop believing the crap you're hearing. Thats why you have advisors and good advisors at that.

We elect a President, not their advisors. With the way the Economy is right now, we do not want some one who is learning as they go when it comes to the top issue in the US.

If Clinton gets in, I would not have a worry at all, because she'll have the best team in terms of experience, Obama and Edwards on the other hand.

And what experience would she have? Being First Lady is more than a full time job.

More importantly I would have thought though it isn't an issue either is that Romney doesn't have any foreign policy experience. You going to trust this man with foreign policy? Scary.

Seeing how the issue right now is the economy, in which Romney has the most experience next to Guiliani, I think America is a bit more concerned about that.

The Clintons are a machine but they've also been manufac tured as some dirty team that enjoys nothing more than dirty politics. Obama is playing the race card and the black community is playing the race car. Clinton was right about his win in South Carolina. 53% of all blacks voted Obama.

If Clinton is bringing up Blacks then I believe she is playing the race card as a scapegoat. Also I find it halarious you accuse Obama of playing the race card today, while Hillary is going after the Hispanic vote, trying to get them to turn on the Blacks and balance it out.

And what the fuck is up with Mitt Romney. Hes an abolsute slimeball.

I am surprised he isn't your guy then. I mean you know the saying, it takes one to know one. ~.^

If he wins there will be plenty of dirt on him, you can be sure of that.

Compared to the dirt that Hillary has, Romney can run rings around her.

He copies the other republicans and what they say such as his famous Michigan win where I swear he watched Huckabee closely.

Uh huh...

As for being so rude and arrogant like when he basically pushed McCain aside just so he could celebrate his Michigan win.

If you believe that, you should hear some of the phone calls McCain is sending out about Romney. As for his speach coming the same time as McCain's, I seriously doubt there were a bunch of staffers back there going "Hee, lets get McCain and go on now". Everyone was partying and concerned about their win, and the times just sinked up.

He's a bullshitter a businessman

And yet has done amazing jobs as a buisnessman.

and he would ruin the republican party, I am quite sure of that.

Sorry you must be talking about McCain and accidently put it in the Romney stuff.

And don't bring up that he wanted an amnesty bill or that he didn't vote for taxes.

And yet it is the truth, he did bring about a amnesty bill and tried to railroad it through the Congress. The American people then spoke up and said they did not want it.

[firepokemon]

Is that why it constantly polls in the top 3 - 10 issues for this country? How about getting you stop speaking out of your ass?

I never said it wasn't an issue, what I said is it wasn't the issue you tought it would be. Political pundits have been saying that it is a republican issue and will not be such an issue at the national elections. That was well before the economy came to the fore, so therefore I was right, you were wrong.

Besides if it was just a Republican issue, the Democrats would not have gone on Spansh Television to debate it.

Of course its an issue but you're making out everybody in the United States has immigration at the top of their mind, thats just fucking stupid.

And what experience would she have? Being First Lady is more than a full time job.

Shes just like literally all politicians. A fucking lawyer. And I was saying she would bring in a team with experience. The Clinton years were good economic years, its going to be the same.

Seeing how the issue right now is the economy, in which Romney has the most experience next to Guiliani, I think America is a bit more concerned about that.

Foreign policy will always be the issue, its ties right into any issues on economics, so you may well want to shut your mouth and sit down and listen. The economy is facing higher oil prices, oil is an economic issue but because the majority of oil is from international countries. Foreign policy matters. You want to have trade agreements and trade alliances you need to talk to other countries thats a foreign policy. Foreign policy matters most importantly and Romney doesn't have it. But yes he could well bring in a team of experts on foreign issues but do not think for one second it isn't an issue. Foreign policy runs America.

If Clinton is bringing up Blacks then I believe she is playing the race card as a scapegoat. Also I find it halarious you accuse Obama of playing the race card today, while Hillary is going after the Hispanic vote, trying to get them to turn on the Blacks and balance it out.

I never said she wasn't playing the race card, but I find it unfair that shes accused of so much and Obama nothing. And hispanics don't like blacks I would have thought you'd know that.

Compared to the dirt that Hillary has, Romney can run rings around her.

Romney isn't smart like she is.

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When immigration is listed as fourth I hardly call it a top issue.

[Roy Karrde]

I never said it wasn't an issue, what I said is it wasn't the issue you tought it would be.

Top 3 to 5 in issues pretty much ranks it as one of the major things Americans want to know about.

Political pundits have been saying that it is a republican issue and will not be such an issue at the national elections. That was well before the economy came to the fore, so therefore I was right, you were wrong.

And yet it still ranks up there in the top 5, which would be some of the top issues for America. So therefore I was right, you are wrong.

Of course its an issue but you're making out everybody in the United States has immigration at the top of their mind, thats just fucking stupid.

Not top of mind, but when it comes from choosing between say Clinton or Romney, one who has been very soft on Immigration and the other that takes a tough stance. It is enough to swing voters. And when it is between Romney and McCain in the primaries, it is enough to cause McCain to lose.

Shes just like literally all politicians. A fucking lawyer.

What has she run? What first hand experience has she had making decisions? Being in the Senate just means you play follow the leader.

And I was saying she would bring in a team with experience.

Yet in the end, it is her decision, not her team when it comes down to the big decisions. Not to mention Hillary isnt some one that listens to her team. She is very hot headed and emotional and when she wants to do something she will do it her way.

The Clinton years were good economic years, its going to be the same.

The Clinton years were only good becuase we cut back the Military spending and had a .Com Bubble. Unless we have another .Com Bubble, and Clinton decides to be a royal fuck up and cut our military during a time of war. Then it will not be the same.

Foreign policy will always be the issue, its ties right into any issues on economics, so you may well want to shut your mouth and sit down and listen.

And yet right now, no one is breaking it up. Even Iraq has become a silent issue on the campeign so how about getting your head out of your ass?

The economy is facing higher oil prices, oil is an economic issue but because the majority of oil is from international countries.

Which is nothing we can control right now, becuase OPEC refuses to raise production and the Democrats will not drill.

Foreign policy matters. You want to have trade agreements and trade alliances you need to talk to other countries thats a foreign policy. Foreign policy matters most importantly and Romney doesn't have it.

Neither does Obama, or any one else. Clinton's foreign policy consists of Rubber Chicken dinners with heads of state.

But yes he could well bring in a team of experts on foreign issues but do not think for one second it isn't an issue. Foreign policy runs America.

Right now the Economy runs America, who ever can step up and bring ideas to the table and experience to the table with the economy, is going to come out ahead.

I never said she wasn't playing the race card, but I find it unfair that shes accused of so much and Obama nothing.

Hillary brings the fire down upon herself, from having her people go out and try to accuse Obama of dealing drugs, to her automated calls targeting Obama, she just cannot run a clean enough campeign, then again that IS the Clintons.

And hispanics don't like blacks I would have thought you'd know that.

Which is why Hillary is running to them.

Romney isn't evil like she is.

Fixed for the truth.

Its confirmed you like morons.

I like people who bring ideas and experience to help this country. You on the other hand seem to like people who bring no experience, and no ideas that could help this country right now.

You are just dumb and pathetic Karrde you watch too much talk back radio and just suck at life. Sorry.

I love you too firepokemon, even though I kick your ass in debates.

[firepokemon]

I am not going to play a game of quote and post, quote and post.

You Karrde are spouting the whole entire bullshit every fucking media outlet has been spouting. Oh she has no experience. Oh she's emotional because she cried once. Shes a woman and woman are weak. To say that rather lacks credibility since you just quote and post more than likely off Fox News. I've heard all the arguments against Clinton and they're so typical and so what I would have expected. Do you think Tony Blair Prime Minister of Great Britain a rather great leader that rode an economic high and for a good number of years did very well had that much experience? Do you actually realise how much power a Prime Minister in a westminister system holds? Its much more than a President. The idea that someone needs experience to govern is quite rightly bullshit. Clinton had good years on economics, it didn't have to do with military cutbacks or the bubble boom it was good policies. Although I am of the opinion that government can only do so much for economics. They can influence fiscal policy but you have to rely on more than that to do well economically. The fact Romney had the balls to even say Michigan could have an automotive industry again just speaks of how much of a bullshitter he is. That shows right there how much credibility he lacks.

Oh and I could hardly call you or myself great debaters. Perhaps when The Rusted One was here or other such notable people (even though to me TRO just believed everything he had to say so you couldn't debate him, he was like some religious nutter that just believes he what they believe) then you could say they were good. But really I don't want to be great. I have my beliefs which are clearly Clinton is great and McCain is likeable. You have your opinions which are fine really though I completely disagree with them and your anologies don't make sense. But thats okay. Its good to believe in yourself, just realise one thing. At the end of the day, this is a pokemon forum. A pokemon forum where anybody can say many things, many things which are bullshit. I would hardly call it an achievement to be great at anything on what is a pokemon forum that barely has 50 active posters.

[Roy Karrde]

You Karrde are spouting the whole entire bullshit every fucking media outlet has been spouting.

I have? I don't have any time for the news with school and all.

Oh she's emotional because she cried once.

And if it was Bush people would be jumping over him for it. If a person cannot handle the stress of a primary. How the hell are they going to handle the stress of a Presidency?

Shes a woman and woman are weak.

Who the fuck says that?

To say that rather lacks credibility since you just quote and post more than likely off Fox News.

Please post where my writing appears on Fox News, I would love to see it on a International News Website!

Clinton had good years on economics, it didn't have to do with military cutbacks or the bubble boom it was good policies.

Any economist will tell you the only reason why we had a good economy in the 90s was becuase of the .net bubble. Besides, I should remind you that the Congress determines most of the Economic Policies and passes the budget. So really you are saying the Republican Congress is what created the Economy of the 90s?

The fact Romney had the balls to even say Michigan could have an automotive industry again just speaks of how much of a bullshitter he is. That shows right there how much credibility he lacks.

Michigan right now is starving for jobs, they are watching more and more go overseas and their entire state is falling into a Depression. Romney didn't say "Well I am going to bring back Automotive jobs." and then didn't explain why. He stood up and told how he was going to bring those jobs back, how he was going to pump money into creating Alternative Fuel cars, cars that would help the automotive industry in Michigan alot.

[firepokemon]

Some good points Karrde.
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Ok well 5 mins to end of voting.

So my predictions for Florida primary

McCain by 5 over Romney. Guliani well back but will beat Huckabee.

Clinton over Obama by 10 probably 15 but Obama get black and youth votes. Edward does well with white males.

And good night leaving uni to watch primary.

[DarkTemplarZero]

XD sudden pull-out will blow up in your face. Sounds like last saturday night to me

But anyway, I'm going to jump on fp's post too. So first of all, I can see where you come from supporting Hillary, but right now she's just too divisive, and the last thing the US needs is another president who half the country will despise. Obama's appealing because he seems to be really good at unifying people here, so even if I don't agree with all his policies and even with the fact that he's barely been in the Senate for 3 years, I wouldn't be unhappy with him in office.

Your attack on Edwards, I don't even know what I can say to that. Edwards has a lot of good solid ideas for education and healthcare, and he seems to be the only candidate on either side with solid workable plans to back up his opinions. Plus, Edwards seems to be focused more on running his own race rather than shoveling shit in the other candidate's faces, which seems to be the campaign standby nowadays.

However, Roy, I don't see illegal immigration being a big issue in Iowa or New Hampshire. Outside of New York City, illegal immigration is not a big issue anywhere in the northeast, and I can't see it being an issue in the midwest. Face it, illegal immigration is primarily an issue in Texas. Not to say that it's not an important issue, just that it's not an issue that affects everyone.

[Drusilla]

Here's Drusie's two-cents worth... As I told my fellow voters during the Texas Caucus Massacre (Gods, what a NIGHTMARE)... After the past eight years, it could hardly get any worse. I got a big round of applause for that one. YAY BLUE GALVESTON COUNTY!

But in all seriousness, there are things I like about each candidate, and things I dislike about each... But I think that both McCain and Clinton are too hot-headed for what the country needs right now. We need someone who can talk us out of the shit hole we've dug ourselves since the invasion of Afghanistan. So Obama's still my man.

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[mr_pikachu]

I honestly disagree with the majority of your post, but I do see where you're coming from in some areas. I'd like to bring up a few specific things...

immigration is no longer the issue that was. Its a republican issue and will not be a national issue, it may be an issue in southern states but those typically go to the Republicans anyway and not democrats. [...] Immigration may well be an issue where you live, but its not a national issue.

I get Roy's point of view here, as we both do live in what would be considered the southern half of the country (fairly near Mexico). It does seem like you're right that it's no longer a Democratic issue, but I think that's largely because they've pushed the issue aside in order to quell the attention. If people aren't thinking about border security, they're not going to do change the current system, and that was the typical left side of the debate anyway. If a Republican gets into office and, more importantly, if that Republican can sway Congress a bit, this issue may be brought back up on the national level. That's the concern here, I think; will it be a future issue, or will it continue to be a non-priority?

I don't agree with anything the democratic party really says, my thoughts particularly on economic issues are more in line with the republicans. But of course republicans are so conservative and hardly could be called progressive.

This is precisely why some analysts describe fiscal conservatives/liberals and social conservatives/liberals. Fiscally, I personally lean way to the right. Socially... not really. For all I know, I may be a little to the left in that category. Anyway, I definitely get what you mean there.

But I want a Clinton win. Obama has enjoyed nothing but praise and good press, where are the people taking a look at what issues he wants to bring to the table, who are going to be his people in the white house and exactly what does this guy have that is so great? He is bound to burn at some stage. If its not in the democratic primary race, then its the national election, if its not that, it will be as President. Do you really want someone like him in the white house? I would think its scary.

It seems to me that his charisma is what's attracted people to Obama thus far rather than policies in and of themselves. That's part of the problem with the Clinton strategy; she's gotten so embroiled in fighting with Obama that she's not making him prove his "change" message. It's all an abstraction thus far, with few explicit plans. And by this point it's too late... anything Hillary does or says to challenge him now probably won't affect the polls until after Super Tuesday. I'm not sure the idea of him in office is quite as scary as you say, especially since Hillary in that seat is terrifying to me. But to each his own.

The Clintons are a machine but they've also been manufac tured as some dirty team that enjoys nothing more than dirty politics. Obama is playing the race card and the black community is playing the race car. Clinton was right about his win in South Carolina. 53% of all blacks voted Obama.

Only 53%? I assumed it was a lot more. How does this prove Hillary's point, then? I mean, she's been riding the female vote thus far (particularly in New Hampshire, where she was supposed to take a double-digit loss). How is that any different than Obama leading his demographic, or for that matter, than any politician having an advantage in his own race, gender, state, etc.?

Also, I think the "dirty tactics" are largely referring to the spread of rumors, such as Obama being a drug dealer. Now, let's be fair. I assume Obama's probably engaging in some underhanded moves as well; it seems like most politicians have to use some treachery at some point, for better or worse. But I think it says something that we haven't heard about anything like that from the Obama campaign but we get it all the time from his rival. There's something to be said for tact, and that's something the Clinton campaign has seriously lacked.

As for Rudy Guliani - If Rudy can't analyse the primary process in america, how the fuck is going to run as President? I mean what a fool, if he got third placements in Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina and then Michigan and Nevada, he'd be on the news and his poll numbers would be up and he would have won the Florida primary and he would have won Super Tuesday and he'd prolly make it to the whitehouse. But no he couldn't even run a Primary caucus.

Agreed. His strategy was more than insane, it was stupid. Even though he's probably the best candidate, Giuliani doesn't deserve to win the nomination.

Mike Huckabee is a christian running a godlike campaign, its disgusting and this guy doesn't seem to have any good skills whatsoever. Hes a loser.

I honestly don't have a problem with running a "godlike campaign." What worries me is, as I said before, he seems to be doing everything he can to avoid talking about the current and future issues. I don't want the president to be a guy who can't address anything without referencing the past. It's the "what have you done for me lately?" rule.

McCain - Now theres someone with conviction, I can't agree with ever going to Iraq it was a stupid mistake that Fox News and all media really liked to propogate until it all went wrong so they decided to go down the other extreme route. If you go into Iraq you really have to stay there, because the last thing anbyone needs is Chaos. And who had the conviction and the know-how even though some republicans were going down the path pulling out troops. McCain. And don't bring up that he wanted an amnesty bill or that he didn't vote for taxes. Thats just bullshit spin from the pathetic far-right, the conservative right. The right side of politics that no other country in the world likes.

McCain's views on the war are right on in my book. You're correct when you say that a sudden pull-out (like what has been proposed by some on the left) would blow up in our faces as well as everyone else's. Even a scaled withdraw would have to be done very cautiously and with great forethought. But fiscally, I disagree wholeheartedly with McCain. Like it or not, I do think he's screwed up quite a bit of stuff there; I just wish another Republican candidate looked as good as he did in terms of foreign policy.

it'll be a long process but that could be good for Clinton. Because Obama will one day crash.

I'm unsure about your situational analysis, but you're definitely right about this. The longer this goes on, the worse Obama's chances are. There's a reason they call it the Clinton machine.

Oh American politics how absolutely phoney, no wonder the rest of the world can't understand Americans you're so stuck on issues the rest of the world has forgotten.

Sorry, but this just demands a counter-comment. If it's so phony and irrelevant, why do you bother talking about it?

[Roy Karrde]

Just to set aside the Illegal Immigration debate as not a top issue. Here is a list of the Top 5 ranking issues in America by CNN as of last month.

1: The Economy
2: The War in Iraq
3: Health Care
4: Illegal Immigration
5: Terrorism

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/...der/index.html

[firepokemon]

I like your post Mr. Pikachu its a very good post. I mean't 53% of the democratic voters at the South Carolina primary were black. Which is a huge, huge number. Thats what Clinton was trying to say (Bill that is), unfortunately everyone took it out of context as somehow he was racist and everything. I like Clinton Hilary because she'll be pragmatic not so ideologically driven like some people.