2008 U.S. Presidential Election - Primaries

[firepokemon]

In all honesty if the two of them are the best the Dems can offer then perhaps they should start planning for 2012.....

- I think they are planning for 2012. The way I see it, they know shes lost and she can't get the nominee. But they've also made Obama human. Actually they've done more than that, they've been able to take Obama down in a variety of ways and have made the media look at this guy again. Basically hes been damaged. They have done what they can but it hasn't been enough to stop him literally grabbing the nominee. But they have damaged him to the extent that McCain has an excellent chance. So 2012 looks like a great possibility.

[Roy Karrde]

You know, the sad thing is that the Democrats were saying that 2008 was going to be a great year. They are poised to grab more seats in Congress, Bush's ratings are in the tank, the Iraq war was dragging on. They could finally have the Presidency and Congress! It was their oppertunity to lose. And really if we could go back a year ago and say the Democrats were most likely going to lose to the Republicans. Everyone would have laughed!

But that being aside, even though I am a Republican and thus am born to hate the Clintons... I have gained so much respect for her these last few months. Just a few months ago I believe I was saying on this board that I wouldn't mind a Obama Presidency... Oh have times changed. My respect level for Obama has fallen by so much, and has risen to amazing heights for Clinton.

[firepokemon]

Hmm well Clinton wins Pennsylvania and with 93 precincts reporting has a 10% lead. That lead would have been impressive just post super tuesday or on Super Tuesday. And it does leave a problem for Obama because he has not been able to win the big states except for Illinois. The problem is, a 10% gap in this one primary, achieves nothing. Sorry but Obama is the nominee.

Plus he'll win North Carolina and chances are looking good in Indiana.

[Roy Karrde]

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/...008-04-22.html

Finally the Democrats are being called on this. Gas Prices have skyrocketed while they have been in office and they are partly to blame. They said they would lower Gas Prices, while now I would do anything to get Gas back down to where it was in the Republican days.

As some one that has to spend over $30 bucks a week just to drive to school, I am REALLY getting sick at Washington taking a hands off approach. If McCain is making Gas Prices a central part of his campeign, then damn, more power to him!

[mr_pikachu]

Okay, I don't want to turn this into a debate on the gas situation, but I have to comment on this (despite not having had time lately to view the details of each politician's plan... or sleep). If they don't have "OPEC" in every other sentence of whatever they propose, their proposals are meaningless. OPEC has a massive amount of control over petroleum drilling and distribution; therefore, they basically own the market.

[Roy Karrde]

Okay, I don't want to turn this into a debate on the gas situation, but I have to comment on this (despite not having had time lately to view the details of each politician's plan... or sleep). If they don't have "OPEC" in every other sentence of whatever they propose, their proposals are meaningless. OPEC has a massive amount of control over petroleum drilling and distribution; therefore, they basically own the market.

Yeah but mind you we are also running at full campacity on our refineries, meaning we cannot pump any more gas into the market no matter what OPEC does. Now we could build more refineries to help pump more gas into the market, hey, maybe we could build them on top of abandoned army bases! Wait the Democrats turned that idea down...

Maybe we could stop the Gas Taxes for a little bit, that takes atleast 50 cents off of every Gallon such as what McCain is proposing.

Or hey we could dig in some of the American owned Oil fields off of our coast, in Alaska, and else where. That provides even more American jobs, and takes us off foreign oil and OPEC tomorrow. There by we do not have to worry about OPEC's control of the market.

The thing is the Democrats in Congress that proposed that they would bring down oil prices, back when Gas prices were around $2.50. Have alot they can do right now, if they can take down taxes for this summer, and to stop deepthroating the radical environmental left.

[Heald]

It really isn't that simple. At the moment, OPEC, which frankly, should be illegal anyway because they are artificially keeping prices high, control prices with an iron grip. Petrol taxes are not just to counter-balance the environmental cost of cars, but also go towards building new roads and maintaining current ones. If the government were to simply cut taxes just like that, they'd lose millions and have no other avenues to get that money in. Simply put, no new roads would get build, roads would fall into disrepair and congestion would get worse.

[Roy Karrde]

It really isn't that simple. At the moment, OPEC, which frankly, should be illegal anyway because they are artificially keeping prices high, control prices with an iron grip. Petrol taxes are not just to counter-balance the environmental cost of cars, but also go towards building new roads and maintaining current ones. If the government were to simply cut taxes just like that, they'd lose millions and have no other avenues to get that money in. Simply put, no new roads would get build, roads would fall into disrepair and congestion would get worse.

Well for one our state taxes easily can and have gone to roads. Second I am not advocating keeping gas taxes off forever, but just long enough till the oil situation balances out. And while OPEC keeps a iron grip on how much oil is released, we need more refineries if we are to ever produce more gas on to the market. Also America has sources with in our own country that can produce oil, we could easily use those tomorrow and cut ourself off from the Middle East, and just get our oil from Mexico, Canada, and our own sources.

[firepokemon]

New Zealand is facing the same problem, half of what we pay in petrol are axes. And since we've agreed to sign up to Kyoto Treaty we're going to be taxed more. And some areas are going to get even more taxes so they can build roads and stuff. But I am not in favour of cutting taxes, nor in freezing them Cutting taxes just because the price of oil is high, is ridiculous. Putting more taxes on is even more stupid. I say leave taxes alone but don't cut them. Because lets face it, many scientists agree that we've reached peak oil, that means oil has reached the stage where we're using more and no longer finding as much oil to replace the oil we are using. Thus oil prices are going to remain high for years to come, what needs to happen therefore, is for people to learn to conserve oil consuption wherever possible. And high oil prices should in the long term, make more demand for automotive technology that lowers actual consumption and new technologies that decreases the use of oil or ultimately where we can go in a car and not pay any petrol.

The fact is, oil is going up, up, up and up and there isn't a lot that governments can do about it.

[Heald]

New Zealand is facing the same problem, half of what we pay in petrol are axes.

Uh-oh, time to crack an obvious axe/New Zealand-related pun!



AND MY AXE!

[mr_pikachu]

Delegate challenges concerning Florida, Michigan to be heard

Apparently they're seriously trying this. I don't see how it could possibly work; there will be an uproar if the motion actually goes through, particularly if it changes the outcome of the primary. But hey, it's interesting to watch.

[firepokemon]

Yeah I can't see that suggestion in the article working whatsoever, I even question how much of a difference it would make in terms of delegate numbers anyway. Obama has this in the bag, if he wins a few more primaries and doesn't lose anywhere by about 10%, he is safe as and shouldn't even worry about it.

As far as I can see hes the nominee, I don't like it but Clinton is really just wasting time more and more. Now one could argue that the way the delegate numbers work givs advantages to small states but thats really not the point. Obama has won this nominee, because hes won more and where he has won hes won a far greater percentage than Clinton has. And the Clintons have had a dreadful caucus strategy. And Clinton allowing Obama to win places with 15% or more in several states is just a big mistake.

[Roy Karrde]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080426/...l_pr/democrats

Clinton has challenged Obama to a debate with out a Moderator. Which....well... it would be amazing! We havn't had a debate like this in what, over 100 years?! The thing is Obama may not take it, he got his ass handed to him in the last debate, and even though that was becuase of the moderator. Having another showing like that again, with Clinton able to call him on not correctly answering the question could be dangerous for his campeign.

[firepokemon]

Or Clinton could be made to look like a real bitch shrieking at Obama. I dunno, I can just see the media absolutely twisting this to whoever side they are on and thus I really don't see that it achieves anything.

[Roy Karrde]

Well of course there is the fine line to walk, Clinton already is viewed as attack Obama unfairly. But any chance she can get to call Obama on his inability to answer questions, and make him look like a bumbling fool, helps her numbers.

[mr_pikachu]

Damn, Roy beat me to this one! *curses*

If you ask me, it's a heck of a gamble by Clinton... perhaps the only move she has left, but nonetheless a risky one. Anyone who's ever watched, say, The O'Reilly Factor knows that head-to-head, unmoderated "debates" degrade into shouting matches at least 90% of the time. In such an argument where no point can be adequately made, the only things that matter are appearances and charisma... and which candidate has the edge there?

Still, it puts pressure on Obama. If he accepts the challenge, he gambles pretty much everything on a good performance. If he declines, he gives Clinton ammunition to use against him. Either way, his image will probably be tarnished - even a good debate will allow plenty of chances for bashing and such. I think Clinton should have done this earlier if at all, but it's an intriguing development.

As for the "as long as he doesn't lose by 10% he's fine" thing, fp... well, I'm a little curious if you meant to give Clinton's exact margin of victory in Pennsylvania. ^_^;;

[Blademaster]

In such an argument where no point can be adequately made, the only things that matter are appearances and charisma... and which candidate has the edge there?

... Um... Is this a trick question?

[Roy Karrde]

Isn't that the Joker from the new Batman movie?

Anyway Yahoo news is saying that Obama's Campeign has declined the debate. So expect to see Clinton promoting how Obama is scared to debate her before the next primary. Also both Clinton and Obama have now come out agreeing with McCain about suspending the gas tax.

Edit: Breaking news from Times Online.uk

Over a year ago 5 Brits were captured by terrorists in Iraq, back then when Iraq was in the height of violence this wasn't anything special. So what makes this story so important? 2 Sources have now come forward and say that these brits are being held INSIDE IRAN.

Apparently the kidnappers turned their hostages over to the Revolutionary Guard, a group designated as terrorists by the US last year. They have been held ever since.

[Andrew]

Wait... so the Brittish are being held by the Brittish?

What?

So Terrorists totally kidnapped Brits and then handed them over to the Brits to be further imprisoned? WTF.

You're not being clear.

[Roy Karrde]

Wait... so the Brittish are being held by the Brittish?

What?

So Terrorists totally kidnapped Brits and then handed them over to the Brits to be further imprisoned? WTF.

You're not being clear.

Sorry I am not being clear, here is a timeline of events as I understand them.

US Soldiers capture a radical Iran leader in Iraq that wants to lead his own group of Insurgents.

In retaliation terrorist capture 5 brits in Iraq, and give them to Iran's Revolutionary Guard to trade for the insurgent leader.

The Revolutionary Guard then hangs onto the Brits for over a year, but start getting ancy. They know that revealing they have them could be a diplomatic disaster. So they start to put out third party feelers to see if they can quietly ship the brits back to Britain with out anyone knowing that they have been keeping Britians hostage for a year.

[Houndoom_Lover]

Irf, since I can't vote...I stopped caring after ol' Mike got cut, but on- Oh, wow, where the heck am I gong with this? Okay, I want the chick to win only because John Titor said she did! ^___^ If I can't have Mike, a time traveler must be right!

O.O +==== (<--- Its a gupii)

[mr_pikachu]

Obama says he's outraged by former pastor's comments

The radical rants of Wright are a topic for another thread. More relevant, however, is the question of how this will affect Obama.

In my view, there's no way that revisiting the debacle helps him. Sure, he's trying to separate himself from Wright (several weeks too late, really), but that's little comfort considering that the American public and press had almost forgotten about the preacher.

Now, I still don't think this will be enough to turn the tide for Clinton, but Obama's got to be just a little concerned. Too many severe blows and we could have a shocker, especially with the disqualified states fighting for their delegates. Besides, this could certainly be damaging in the general election.

[firepokemon]

Its rather late for him to disparage the remarks now. But this is politics, nothing is simple. It will not turn the tide, however, Indiana is looking awfully close with a few polls still going for Obama but a few are going with Clinton with five point margins. But Obama has such a huge lead now that whatever happens, hes set to be the nominee.

Theres still the question as to how much this will affect him when he goes against McCain. But with Clinton still in the race, its just too difficult to compare McCain and Obama.

I will say one thing, I predict Clinton to take Indiana by five.

[Roy Karrde]

This really has been a bad month for Obama. All of this Reverend Stuff, and then he decides to not back the Gas Tax freeze when Gas Prices are the biggest problem the American people are concerned about according to the latest poll. It should be interesting to see what happens on Fox New tomorrow night when Clinton comes on for a interview.

[firepokemon]

It is highly doubtful that Hillary Clinton will take Indiana by five. In fact Obama could potentially win Indiana, he only problem is the voting has seemingly stopped with Clinton enjoy a 4% lead. But the big county whose votes have not been included so far, is bordering Chicago and one could argue is a great county for Obama. Thus my guess is that we will know who wins Indiana tomorrow.

In North Carolina thankfully results came through nicely with Obama having a 14% margin. Its a pretty good win, in a state that was awarded extra delegates for choosing to have their primary so late in the cycle. What it does in effect, is minimise the losses Obama took in Pennsylvania, Ohio and Texas primaries. Delegates go in favour to him but essentially nothing changes.

Thats correct, things stay how they are. With Obama well and truly on the breath of taking the Democrat nominee, but Clinton being close enough that she still stay in. Of upcoming primaries etc Oregon should go Obama's way, but Clinton could win big in both Kentucky and West Virginia. But even then nothing changes, in June Clinton could take the winner-takes-all primary in Puerto Rico but still the gay will be too big. Its becoming way too late for Florida or Michigan to have a re-do. Thus, Obama continues to look like being the nominee, only that he has to keep fighting and fighting.

I was impressed by Obama's speech today which spoke of the Democrat party being just as strong now as it was when the primary season began and that no matter who the nominee is, the Democrat has a bright and prosperous future. I'm not usually one that likes Obama's speeches but I liked this one today.

But I guess all eyes are on Indiana if Obama does in Indiana, Clinton looks even worse off but can still fight till June at least. But we'll see.

EDIT: This is looking very bad for Clinton as with 91% of precincts in Clinton has just a 2% lead and the final county results are coming in and they favour Obama in a big way.

EDIT NUMBER TWO: Clinton wins Indiana but my god, these two states have weakened her argument even more.

[firepokemon]

Hmmm West Virgina solidly went for Clinton. With 58% of the vote in its 65% to 27%. I don't this should have been a surprise mind you. Its a rural state, Clinton has done superb with such people and thus the demographics simply said, this was going to be a Clinton state. Its a small state, thus there is not that many delegates that get awarded. Its a big democrat state, so I presume one could say that its a state Obama may not hold if he is the nominee. But I think such a statement is rather silly and meaningless since Obama has chances in other states anyway.

Basically this changes nothing. Like in every state, Obama looks set to be the nominee but does not currently have the numbers needed to be assured of it. Clinton needs the superdelegates but she neither has the popular vote or the delegate lead thus she just has to wait and hope Obama stuffs up. Now that isn't going to happen, so Clinton will either fight dirty or simply give the ghost up in June. Kentucky will go well for her its much like West Virginia and shares pretty much the same demographics. However, Oregon is increasingly looking sound for Obama. Both seem to be sharing huge head to head leads over McCain. Though at the end of the day its still going to be red versus blue with just a number of states that are going to swing. So really this has changed nothing.

On an interesting note is how well Edwards did, getting at least 7% of the vote here. Him withdrawing allowed Obama to take the lead in this election. As I do believe him staying in, would have weakened Obama in several states. But I guess for those that like Obama, Edwards did a lot of good. And really its fairer this way anyway.

[Roy Karrde]

Just need to vent, but after watching this clip, no one, and I mean NO ONE, can claim Fox News is the only partisan news channel.

http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=96473

Jesus Christ what a piece of shit this man is, he actually makes Colmns and O'Reilly look sane and nice.

Then again is it any wonder why MSNBC is losing viewers with pieces of shit like this man?

Anyway done with my rant ^_^

[firepokemon]

Heh Fox is easy bait because they come from the right whereas the others tend to come from the left. But yes they are just as bias and just as insane as the rest of them.

Oh and I think Edwards endorsement was and is very helpful to Obama. But bleh I like Clinton way better but its time to give up the ghost.

[Drusilla]

Here's Drusie's two-cents worth... As I told my fellow voters during the Texas Caucus Massacre (Gods, what a NIGHTMARE)... After the past eight years, it could hardly get any worse. I got a big round of applause for that one. YAY BLUE GALVESTON COUNTY!

But in all seriousness, there are things I like about each candidate, and things I dislike about each... But I think that both McCain and Clinton are too hot-headed for what the country needs right now. We need someone who can talk us out of the shit hole we've dug ourselves since the invasion of Afghanistan. So Obama's still my man.

DISCLAIMER: This is Drusie's opinion. It is not meant to upset, insult, degrade, or otherwise cause disappointment. It's just her view.

Over use of Drusie's opinion may cause slight GI discomfort. Should swelling of the hands, feel, eyelids, brain, or appendix occur, please seek immediate medical attention.
Keep out of reach of children under 6 years of age. Amendment: Keep out of reach of children under 97 years of age.
Children over 97 years of age need to get on with dying anyway.
Not for the faint of heart or weak of bladder. Or ill of temper...
Use by such individuals may result in SEVERE SMITING INCIDENTS.

[Roy Karrde]

Woot! Something Dru and I can completely agree on! Texas was a utter mess when it came to our election.

And back on topic, Fire did you seem to catch McCain's speach today about what he sees for his administration? The Hard Right is pretty pissed about it, but I would want to see what other less partisans think of it.

And Dru, it is interesting how you can think Obama can talk us out of anything when he cant even talk himself out of a Pastor Wright situation.

Wah I cant believe the Texas Primary took place before Wright. It seems like forever.

[Drusilla]

Woot! Something Dru and I can completely agree on! Texas was a utter mess when it came to our election.

Honey, I was stuck at the caucus for over an hour, AND I left early because I was still supposed to be at work. My polling site was for three precincts, but with a comparatively low residential population, since so many houses out here are vacation rentals... Anyway... When I got home at 11:30 that night, there were caucuses in Houston that hadn't started yet because people were still voting in the PRIMARY. What the HELL?! I was not at all impressed with the Texas Democratic Party leaders with the set up, because it was the massive amounts of Democrat voters that swamped the polls...

On the other hand, I was ECSTATIC that so many people were voting! I think that we may finally be seeing the beginnings of that political revolution that people have been talking about for the past FIFTY years...

[Roy Karrde]

On the other hand, I was ECSTATIC that so many people were voting! I think that we may finally be seeing the beginnings of that political revolution that people have been talking about for the past FIFTY years...

I wish, but most likely just like for the past 49 years, it aint going to happen. People got excited back in January and December and on Super Tuesday, and on Super Tuesday 2. But if you've noticed, all that steam is really starting to wind down. The teenager momentum is shifting it's focus back to girls, bikinis, and the beach as summer rolls around. Obama was sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo last March ~.^. Its why so many political pundits will say "There is a word for the politician that relies on the Youth Vote: Loser". Becuase us teenagers ( I'm 23 x.x ) have the attention spans of fruit flies.

[Drusilla]

To be honest... the average American doesn't have an attention span much beyond that... However, I have moved up in the scale! I have the attention span of ... I don't know what. But people down here are STILL buzzing, but then, Galvatraz is a slightly odd place! HOW I LOVE IT!!

In any case, I look forward to the conventions and the race to November. *twitches with excitement*

I'ma go get a sherbet now, bai. XP

[Heald]

Just need to vent, but after watching this clip, no one, and I mean NO ONE, can claim Fox News is the only partisan news channel.

http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=96473

Jesus Christ what a piece of shit this man is, he actually makes Colmns and O'Reilly look sane and nice.

Then again is it any wonder why MSNBC is losing viewers with pieces of shit like this man?

Anyway done with my rant ^_^

That wasn't as bad as what I was expecting, considering O'Reilly is on the record as saying all black people should listen to him and not people like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.

In fact, I wish someone like him told that to Tony Blair, then maybe we wouldn't have gone blundering into the complete catastrophe that is Iraq.

Anyway, unless there is some sort of divine intervention (or more appropriately, not-so divine intervention, considering Hillary is, in fact, the devil) it looks like Obama has the Democratic nomination wrapped up. Clinton now has a choice: gracefully accept defeat and throw her support behind Obama and at least give the Democrats a fighting chance, or throw all her toys out of the pram, have a big bitch about it and more or less condemn America (and, indirectly, the world) to four more years of incompetent fools in the White House who put their religious fundamentalism before any sort of pragmatism. I'm going to guess the latter.

[Roy Karrde]

That wasn't as bad as what I was expecting, considering O'Reilly is on the record as saying all black people should listen to him and not people like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.

I am not one that usually agrees with O'Reilly but he is right with this. Anyone would be better than those racist hate mongers like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton that keep the Black Race in the 1970s

to four more years of incompetent fools in the White House who put their religious fundamentalism before any sort of pragmatism. I'm going to guess the latter.

So in other words condem us to a Obama Presidency?

[Drusilla]

Clinton now has a choice: gracefully accept defeat and throw her support behind Obama and at least give the Democrats a fighting chance, or throw all her toys out of the pram, have a big bitch about it and more or less condemn America (and, indirectly, the world) to four more years of incompetent fools in the White House who put their religious fundamentalism before any sort of pragmatism. I'm going to guess the latter.

If you even think that she'd consider the former, then you haven't been paying attention. XP

[firepokemon]

Heald I don't think McCain is as bad as you make him out to be, yes his foreign policy may not be all that different to what the Bush's foreign policy is. But I don't see McCain as being under any fundamentalist spell. But Clinton should get out now really, I love her, it should have been her but she needs to bow out. And I support McCain over Obama.

Oh and did anyone catch Huckabee making that Speech at I think it was the NRA (National Rifle Association) and some sound went off and he made a horrible horrible joke about Obama being shot or something. All I thought, was what the fuck was he thinking.

[Roy Karrde]

Basically the same thing everyone else has been thinking, especially after he purpously took the JFK route through Dallas. That every redneck nutbag with a gun is going to target him if he becomes President.

[Roy Karrde]

Double post for new news.

Extra! Extra! Read all about it! Obama Sticks Foot in Mouth!

"We can't drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times ... and then just expect that other countries are going to say OK,"

"That's not leadership. That's not going to happen," he added.

So umm... Personal Responsability and Freedom... yeah...

[Blademaster]

I'm really starting to like Obama. He had my support before, but all these so-called 'faux pas's' are making me support him more and more. He's honest. He's tellin' it like it is.

Obama '08!