Pokemon Colosseum: the way to get the old Pokemon? (hint from Corocoro)

[Aninymouse]

when people ***** about pokemon, it is second in annoyance only to those banners that tell you you won something...

the REAL reason there's been no GSC conectivity is that when they made RS, they changed the mathematical calculations and formulas that tell the computer the "who what and where" of the game... these new formulas are incompatable with the old ones in every way... the computers of both types cant talk to one another, ASIDE from GBA's in "GBA mode" and "GB mode" not being able to communicate.

in Collusium, if the DID allow simultaneous interactivity of GSC/RBY and RS, they would have to re-calculate nearly everything that was done (ie. damage), and the cpu would be making "assumptions" about wether or not the GSC pokemon have a "20" or "21" IV, etc...

see?

[classy_cat18]

Thank you, guys! I've been looking for people that see the positive side of this new Stadium game. I'm looking forward to it. Heck, I'm already saving up money for all the E3 games that I want.

[pimuni]

yeah, there are some things about the game that piss me off too. That is the graphics mainly. But no worries cause things always change. Even if the graphics stay the same, it will be an excellent game. I hope they let you get the unobtainables also.

oh, and about that E3 games list, wow. there are many games that I want to buy!

• Star Fox Armada
• Pokemon Colliseum
• Mario Cart Double Dash
• F-Zero GX
• Warioland (not so wanted)
• Pikmin 2 (not so wanted)

[Gligar_Man]

Originally posted by srg. syphillis
you should buy a gamecube anyway as there are many excellent games you need to play (eg. zelda, metroid, f-zero...) anyway while the graphics are **** this game should be very good in the end and will certainly add life to ruby and sapphire

yeah maybe ill go buy one so i can return it 2x a year... -_-

[Dragonfree]

Originally posted by Hyperworm
3) I agree. This aspect annoys me slightly, I was definitely hoping for contact in this version. Come on, how difficult can it be?

Very difficult. You have to realize that there are 386 pokémon. If they were going to make them make physical contact, you'd have to make animations for EVERY pokémon hitting EVERY pokémon with EVERY attack that makes physical contact. That makes 386 * 386 * the number of attacks that make physical contact which makes billions of animations, and that would take so many ages you'd be complaining about how they're not coming with the game.

[Ultimate Pikachu]

The trailer is awsome. Now we can see Kyogre's teeh. The need the improve the graphics and that's all. Now I'm making my list for the new games I want!

• Pokemon Colloseum
• Pokemon Box
• Pokemon Channel: Together with Pikachu
• Kirby's Air Ride

This is so cool!

[Orion]

Yay!I'm glad they made Pokémon Collosseum!I really like Stadium Games(Good Challenge>Good Graphics),and I hope this one is better than the previous ones!

I'm VERY happy that finally we can see Trainers!!!I was hoping so since I saw PS1.This is one of my fave improvements,doesn't matter how crappy they may look(Actually,they look kinda decent)

Too bad the Attacks stii won't do physical contact,but it's not that important...

Although Graphics look OK,and I'm not a fan of hardcore graphics,I must say they have some work to do...If only they had made Pokés in Cel-Shaded...Hopefully,even if not cel-shaded,I hope they improve their looks.While some look very nice(Wailord and Sceptile look practically perfect),some need a LOT of work(Maybe redo the old Pokés is needed.And that Groudon at the beginning sucks!)

I hope we can do more things with this Colloseum!I'm looking for more Mini-Games,a higher challenge,play with old AND new Pokémon,see all kinds of Trainers!It's so great,I can't wait!Maybe,I REALLY HOPE,they'll have some extra option for 3D Contests!Imagine that!

Hopefully we'll be able to transfer old Pokés,but if not,it doesn't matter...heh,I was one of the very few lucky guys that got a nice bunch of his favorite Pokémon to be in RS(Don't hate me).However,I'd like to get a Blastoise and a Meganium,then I'd be happy.

Now,what I HOPE WITH ALL MY HEART,SOUL,MIND AND EVERYTHING IS:NO CHALLENGE CUP!HEAR MY PRAYERS!!!!!!Sorry,it's a trauma...Anyways,it'll be a great game!

[Carbonite4]

Originally posted by Dragonfree
Very difficult. You have to realize that there are 386 pokémon. If they were going to make them make physical contact, you'd have to make animations for EVERY pokémon hitting EVERY pokémon with EVERY attack that makes physical contact. That makes 386 * 386 * the number of attacks that make physical contact which makes billions of animations, and that would take so many ages you'd be complaining about how they're not coming with the game.

I can't do it on my calculator, but the formula, I think, is...

386!

Do that, it should have the exact number.

By the way, the ! sign means "factorial." The equation is read 386 factorial. Just in case any of you were like, "WTF is this guy talking about? Exclaimation points in math?"

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe this is the way to do it.

[Shining Arcanine]

Originally posted by srg. syphillis
the polygon count on those pokemon is pathetic, i'm certain they are the same graphics as in the n64 version (albeit the arenas look a bit nicer and you can see pokemon trainers) to me this is just another major let down from nintendo, i don't like the company they are becoming

Did anyone besides myself notice that the files are in JPG format. Meaning they are low quality. I saw numerous flaws in the image which were caused by JPG compression. The graphics would be much better if the files were saved in PNG or TIFF to begin with. Anyway, I think they can improve the graphics since this is nothing compared to what GCN can do....

As for having animations for each pokemon hitting each with each attack. The forumla is 386x386x354=52,744,584. This is where computer compiled graphics and graphics accelerators come into the picture...

[Gnome Slayer]

I think the graphics looked better then the Stadium's (although its been I don't know how many years it's been sence I last played them.) Did anyone else notice the electricity surounding Wailord after thunder?

Although this E3 is making my wallet hurt, I wan't Pokemon Colesium, Pokemon Box, Kirby's Air Ride, Fire Emblem, Custom Robo, Advance Wars 2, Final Fantasy: Crystal Cronicles, F-Zero Gx, Starfox, Wario World, Wario Ware, And that's just from Nintendo. The worst part is I'm going to eventualy buy them all (that's like $500.)

[Ultarius]

Meh, I'm getting a GCN anyway, so why not just get Stadium.

Anyway, in the original picture, can anyone translate what it says to the right and left of that chip thing? (the thing that's to the left of the Gamecube, under the shot of the Typhlosion, above the thing that I think is about Pokemon Box)

[123LTJ]

Originally posted by Carbonite4
I can't do it on my calculator, but the formula, I think, is...

386!

Do that, it should have the exact number.

By the way, the ! sign means "factorial." The equation is read 386 factorial. Just in case any of you were like, "WTF is this guy talking about? Exclaimation points in math?"

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe this is the way to do it.

I'm correcting you. Dragonfree was right... 386x386x the 600 or so moves.

386! would be the number of possible arrangements of all 386 pokemon (which equals a 3 with 832 zeros after it, by the way). I'm glad it's only about 90 million if my estimation of the amount of moves is correct. But yeah, that'd be way too much to ask for. Maybe getting the moves to just respond to where the pokemon is and it's approximate size...

[Dark Stalker Raven]

I can`t believe it. So many post and no one make the most important question after obtain the Pokemon from G/S/C. This Stadium will be online? If this Stadium is online, that the best thing Nintendo can do for Pokemon. We can challenge other trainers from other countries and put our teams on test. Better than that, we can do a real world tournament or something like that.

[MatthewKetchum037]

All this math is making my head spin!


A stadium game is nice and all, BUUUUUTTTTT!!!!!

Nintendo needs to make a full-fleged pokemon RPG for the GameCube with graphics to match, and include all386 pokemon, and a way to go to all three regions (kanto, Johto, and Hoenn). That is the dream game, and they need to make it!!


Side note: This is probably a question for a new thread, but anyone hear a rumor that nintendo is going to quit making new systems and make games for Playstation and Xbox? I have no clue as to the validity of this rumor.

[Pewter City Geodude]

Originally posted by MatthewKetchum037
Side note: This is probably a question for a new thread, but anyone hear a rumor that nintendo is going to quit making new systems and make games for Playstation and Xbox? I have no clue as to the validity of this rumor.

That rumor started long ago, and is completely and utterly baseless and false. Nintendo itself quelched it a few months ago by affirming their commitment to their current and future systems.

[123LTJ]

Originally posted by MatthewKetchum037

Side note: This is probably a question for a new thread, but anyone hear a rumor that nintendo is going to quit making new systems and make games for Playstation and Xbox? I have no clue as to the validity of this rumor.

No. Just.... no. Nintendo likes money too much to do this.

[classy_cat18]

Originally posted by 123LTJ
No. Just.... no. Nintendo likes money too much to do this.

What makes you think that they're not doing this because of the money? Don't you think that they're still making their own consoles just because they like it that way? I mean, if I was in that business way before Microsoft and Sony, I wouldn't want to sell out to them.

[Pewter City Geodude]

Did you guys even bother to read my post?

[Dark Stalker Raven]

Originally posted by Dark Stalker Raven
I can`t believe it. So many post and no one make the most important question after obtain the Pokemon from G/S/C. This Stadium will be online? If this Stadium is online, that the best thing Nintendo can do for Pokemon. We can challenge other trainers from other countries and put our teams on test. Better than that, we can do a real world tournament or something like that.

Can someone read this???

[classy_cat18]

Originally posted by Pewter City Geodude
Did you guys even bother to read my post?

Yes, I did. Preach it to the choir, boy!

[Carbonite4]

Oh, look. I was wrong.

I forgot to calculate all of the attacks....

Eh, it was just a guess, anyway. I wouldn't have put bets on me being right that time !

Anyway, online gaming would be awesome.

And the Nintendo thing....

According to Nintendong.com, the GCN has outsold Xbox every month since their release. Something like that, GCN has outsold it, anyway. Nintendo has also made plans for releasing the GameCube Mach 2 in 2006, the same time PS3 and Xbox2 come out.

Alas, Nintendo's fate isn't all good...

A lot of mainstream companies (Midway, for example), are backing out of helping Nintendo.

Why, you ask?

Because the primary games that sell for Nintendo are Nintendo-made games (Metroid Prime, for example). Everything else doesn't sell as much.

Nintendo has the best console-only games, which explains a lot.

But their reign with best exclusive games might be their undoing. They lost Rare, and it seems like EA is the only mainstream company that still backs them up.

It should also be noted that most of Xbox's and PS2's games are multi-console, so it would only be natural for the companies to want to go with them.

[classy_cat18]

Wait a minute! Retro Studios made Metroid Prime, not Nintendo!

[Pewter City Geodude]

Originally posted by Carbonite4
But their reign with best exclusive games might be their undoing. They lost Rare, and it seems like EA is the only mainstream company that still backs them up.

Not true, there are several. Capcom, Activision, Acclaim, and Sega were the first 4 that popped into my head. Anyways, this is severely OT...

[Carbonite4]

Well, yeah, but my point is it is a Nintendo-only game and is licensed by Nintendo. Retro is also, (correct me if I am wrong, though last time I said that...) paritally owned my Nintendo.

Think of it like Donkey Kong or Star Fox. They are owned by Nintendo, but not made by Nintendo themselves (rather, Rare).

[MatthewKetchum037]

Thanks for clearing that rumor up, but I should have asked the question in a different thread. Sorry Pewter City Geodude.

[Darkchampion]

Bah you dont have to premake every animation for when 2 pokemon contact. Do you honestly think that a fighting game (like super smash bros melee, soul calibur etc) have all of their impact animations predrawn? Of course not, all you have to do is make a game engine with physics and collision detetcion, and TA DAA!!!! My Medicham can punch a pikachu across the screen in fantastic realism. It's been done before a million times and I don't see why they cant do it here.

And on another note, unless this game has online battling functionality(doubtful), it isn't something I would consider buying, even if this is how you get the UOs. I would just rent it, get a slew of UOs, and return it.

EDIT: Oh and I truly doubt those will be the release graphics for the game. Imagine that each of those pokemon is a sculpture, and that the artists were only half done with each by the time E3 came around. They simply showed what they had to demo the game but they will assuredly finish these models before the game is released (IE they will smooth all of the rough edges, add textures, increase the color depth, etc). And if they don't I will be disappointed with Nintendo (the pokemon trophies in SSBM look better than those crapola models )

[×X×·ShadowPrince·×X×]

Many people do not have high speed internet to do Online gaming. I'm soon getting Broadband, but the number of people with high speed internet is very low... So what would the fun of that be? You wouldn't be able to challenge the best if they were among the people with slow speed internet.



Prince

[Pewter City Geodude]

Microsoft doesn't seem to mind that, since XBox Live is broadband-only.

[Hyperworm]

o.0 @ ShadowPrince
This isn't an RPG, you know, all the data that would need to be sent during battle would be the damage done and the attacks / moves chosen. Not exactly demanding on connection speed!
I'm not saying it will support it, of course.

Darkchampion, I agree with almost everything you said completely ^.^ Except the wouldn't buy it part. I love the Stadium series. ^_^()

[classy_cat18]

This is not Super Smash Bros. Melee or Soul Calibur. This is Pokemon Coliseum, a turn based fighting/RPG game, like the Final Fantasy games. Have you seen how battles in the Final Fantasy games look like? Even though they do make contact there, it's not going to be real contact. Besides, this is 386 Pokemon hitting 386 other Pokemon with, um, how many different attacks?

[Powarun]

Well it looks cool and the graphics can be cleaned up a bit, honestly Nintedo will just give it N64 graphics because they know you or a group of people will buy it if it has a catch. My opion about Nintendo is that they won't fall out of the race, this happened with Sega, and looked what happened. And someone is right, nintendo makes money from their games, think about PS2
or Xbox, what games do you think of, Halo and something else. Nintedo has pokemon, a new hot item, mario, zelda, metroid, starfox, and trying to make Pikman a grand game. But the graphics how they are are fine and everything will work out. Remember how so many people hated Ruby for not having Johot or Kanto? Most of them bought the game or played it.

As for the RPG on Gamecube, Hopefully it will happen

[Hyperworm]

That Final Fantasy style would be fine. At least it's better than the "show one pokémon attacking - switch to defending pokémon and show hit animation" method for every single attack.
Also, it makes no difference how many Pokémon are attacking each other, especially not if you're only having "fake contact" where they come close to colliding but not quite.

(I could see problems with the animations for things like Wailord VS Caterpie, and scenarios like this are the only reason I can think of for not having contact - the amount of different Pokémon attacking different Pokémon is surely irrelevant.)

Anyway, must stop complaining.

[×X×·ShadowPrince·×X×]

Originally posted by Hyperworm
o.0 @ ShadowPrince
This isn't an RPG, you know, all the data that would need to be sent during battle would be the damage done and the attacks / moves chosen. Not exactly demanding on connection speed!
I'm not saying it will support it, of course.

Darkchampion, I agree with almost everything you said completely ^.^ Except the wouldn't buy it part. I love the Stadium series. ^_^()

Yeah, but there will be a main site for this. So think of the traffic, numb nuts!

And, you might think that the amount of info that will be transfered is minimum, but it really isn't.



Prince

[Hyperworm]

Why not? What other data needs to be transferred during battle?
And the traffic problem was never really a problem in Phantasy Star Online - they just used the lobby format. And that was with character data needing to be loaded for every player in the lobby at once, too. In fact, if Colosseum were to go online, they needn't even do that, just a series of chatrooms and a "battle" option!

I don't see how a Stadium game could possibly be above the capabilities of a 56K as you suggest.

[×X×·ShadowPrince·×X×]

Look, bits of information must be sent at once. Such as the attack, damage, effect probability... Just think that it has to create the whole animation and calculations via internet. It will probably need broadband, unless you don't mind having to wait a 5-10 of minutes waiting for your opponent's turn to be over.

Prince

[Pewter City Geodude]

And why would it need to do all those calculations online, when each user's game itself is perfectly capable of doing so? All the games would need to trasmit between each other is the attack chosen, whether or not a Pokemon was switched out, simple stuff like that.

[Hyperworm]

Exactly what I'm saying.

Attack: number, out of about 400, 3 bytes.
Damage: number, out of about 500, 3 bytes.
Effect probability: irrelevant, success or not is determined by the machine of the person who did the attack. Result is sent to opponent's machine, effect is either unsuccessful or not, 1 byte.
[nb: don't know much about the filesize aspect, i'm just showing that it's going to take a ridiculously low amount of time to send.]

Animation doesn't need to be sent at all, the opponent Cube just needs to know what your Pokémon is and it can make the Pokémon animation itself just as if you were playing against the computer. Does it really matter if the attack animations aren't the same or time-synched on both machines? In the end, to be enjoyable and playable, all that matters is the attack results in turn-based combat, unlike real-time, when animation is crucial to avoiding attacks etc.

Compare to PSO: character data which can be customised (isn't one of a fixed 386), location of every character, their weapon, damage for each hit (many times per second in melees), chat script, location data of every enemy... and for the most part it runs fine on a 56K.

Anyway: It'll never happen anyway despite how feasible it is, and this thing's been taken way off topic already (mainly by me... XD), sorry about that ^.^

[Shining Arcanine]

Originally posted by ×X×·ShadowPrince·×X×
Look, bits of information must be sent at once. Such as the attack, damage, effect probability... Just think that it has to create the whole animation and calculations via internet. It will probably need broadband, unless you don't mind having to wait a 5-10 of minutes waiting for your opponent's turn to be over.

Prince

It shouldn't require much more to be transfered than RS does. Since all of the data is the same. Colosseum will simply compile the graphics and do the calculations locally based on the data received via the net.

[classy_cat18]

This is 3D we're talking about. Think about the intricate movements that the Pokemon have to make. It's not only physics in play, it's also anatomy.

[Don't Run With Scizors]

I doubt Pokémon Collosseum will be as slow as people think it might

Take the IRC-based GSbot, for example. On average, the time it takes for people to send orders and for the bot to process it is about a minute - and most of that time is taken by the players making a decision about their moves. And that's taking into consideration:

- That not everybody has a broadband connection. I myself play GSbot with only a 56k connection, and it's fairly fast.
- The info goes from the player (which may or may not have a broadband connection), to the IRC server, to the bot, and then back again through the #battlearena window. At peak speed times, this takes less than ten seconds.

The server wouldn't need to do much... all it needs are a few strings of data for each side, and a simple damage calculation doesn't require too much processing power.