Hoothooters! Can I get sum?

[MeLoVeGhOsTs]

I don't even like waffles.

But fries. Belgian fries are the best.

[DarkestLight]

XD Your reply is hilarious. "Waffles? I don't even like waffles!"

Wtf is the difference between a Belgian Fry and lie..what can you eveN compare it too. Its all a po-ta-to

[MeLoVeGhOsTs]

Racist.

[DarkestLight]

Bigot

[Crazy Elf Boy]

Now now stop fighting you two, don't make me put you both in the naughty corner.

[Kurosakura]

Don't you mean time-out? We may also have to take away their Pokeballs. Tsk tsk.

[Knight of Time]

If their Pokeballs were taken away, they'd be unable to "catch" any Pokemon, lol.

That's just a joke...anyone got any jokes they've heard that make them crack up?

Some jokes make me crack up so much it's like they make me go to pieces.

[Kurosakura]

If their Pokeballs were taken away, they'd have to duke it out with their fists instead of using a Pokemon battle to resolve it.

As for the funny, I didn't understand it.

[MeLoVeGhOsTs]

*turns head*

[DarkestLight]

Nu uh Kuro! I keep one outside my pokeballz, and it would pwnz hiz azz.

Anyway, MLG ish oldz!

[Kurosakura]

*points and laughs*

[MeLoVeGhOsTs]

I'd say thanks.


But no.

[DarkestLight]

Hey all. I know you are wondering what's going on with the holiday festivities. They're on the way, I'm just going to ask that you all be patient. MLG is in a bit of a busy rut and all, but he'll be sure to get everything started by this weekend :O

Of course I'm helping, and whatever he fires at me will get done n_n. But this gives everyone a few extra days to get a few reffings done here and there-get a few points up, you know, make sure you really reach that level before we all do a bit of gift giving and all.

I would also like to take the time to thank everyone for their efforts this year

[MeLoVeGhOsTs]

No one wished me happy birthday

Yes, I'm waiting with the newsletter for sometime later in the month. It's only been three weeks.

As for the Tree, it's up. Not down, not left or right, but up. You figure out yourself.

*shifty eyes*

[Knight of Time]

Guess I'm the only one to say this for now, but...

MLG!

Hope you had a great day.

Man, I wish they had an emoticon for a belated birthday here...

[Blademaster]

They do, Kyle. I'm using it now.

Happy late birthday, Melg! :emo:

EDIT: The fuck? Where's our beloved wrist-slashing emoticon?

[Greyfox]

No one wished me happy birthday

Welcome to my world, jerk.

[chaos_redefined]

Belated happy birthday to MLG. Even more belated happy birthday to Greyfox.

[DarkestLight]

Hahahahh I'm laughing cause its true.

[MeLoVeGhOsTs]

You can all die and rot in hell.

[Unbraced]

^ oh yeah? I'm throwing a party in hell, so they'll have lots of fun

[chaos_redefined]

Aww... MLG loves us so much, he wants us all to rock up to Unbraced's party. Only... the party is in hell, it's gonna get busted by the cops.

[Houndoom_Lover]

:0 I had a dream that I was gunna go to hell

[Kurosakura]

Aren't we already in hell?

[Mew Master]

:0 I had a dream that I was gunna go to hell

This isn't a dream Wendy... it's real... Hehehe... Haha.... HAHAHA! BUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!

[Unbraced]

Can someone smack Mew master? he's stuck again

[Crazy Elf Boy]

Nah he is just in hell.

[MeLoVeGhOsTs]

Die and rot in hell, then die again, while rotting.

Parties are fun. Fun is useless, therefor parties are useless.

I am a pure logical, practic being.

[chaos_redefined]

Only in hell could such a being exist. Clearly this is hell.

[Mew Master]

Okay guys, I have a serious question for the Refs in our audience and I think we need to discuss it, cause it's a bit back-asswards.

This is the subject of: Susbitution moves relating to specific situations within ASB Matches.

While I myself have not done much in any sort of Reffing as of late (being burnt out from EVERYTHING atm seems to help that, but the relaxation I've been getting is helping), I have still been asked for comments and advice in a few. However there have been some concerns arisen as of late to the nature of Substitutions and reffing them so that a player gets four moves in a round as opposed to three.

For example in the match of Metalix's Girl vs Ayeun:

Curse ~ Dark Pulse ~ Shadow Ball

sub - If she trys to protect against the curse in any way, go dark pulse ~ Curse ~ Shadow ball

All right, Jade, Teleport away from the Curse if it's Curse, but if it's Dark Pulse, use Mirror Coat, then if the Second attack is Dark Pulse, use Attract, but if it's Curse, use Disable. End with Psychic.

Teleport/Mirror Coat~Attract/Disable~Psychic

Many of us would probably scratch our heads thinking about how to deal with the chaos of this match.

If Ghastly lets out a Curse, and Jade dodges it with Teleport, does Ayeun's command then super-vent the dodged attack by getting in a quick Dark Pulse? The same goes for Jade if the Curse doesn't hit because she dodged it and the Dark Pulse comes in, she does a Mirror Coat.

This goes through and adds in an extra attack within a specified attack slot. Plus it makes a headache for Reffing, especially in larger Tag-Team matches where the substitutions depend on what's happened the first rslot, and even more substitutions in the second and third slot of attacks.

Is it a matter of who has priority? Because in this various situation the move orders get confused because of the substitutional underlying modifiers. "If A happens then do B" When the situation to switch from A to B involves for A to have been started. To use the above example:

If Ghastly uses Curse, and Jade managed to Teleport to dodge, then Ghastly would switch back to Dark Pulse as a Substitute. When that move would cause that switch depends upon Jade's action in the round. And this would all be commanded to happen within the first slot of attacks.

To bang this point home, let's look at Metalix's Girl's command for the first attack slot:

All right, Jade, Teleport away from the Curse if it's Curse, but if it's Dark Pulse, use Mirror Coat,

This becomes confusing, as the only way for Curse to NOT be Curse for the first attack is if she dodged it (which she does with Teleport). Which then causes the Dark Pulse to come in, where as she commands to use Mirror Coat.

I'm sure you can see how this can cause a headache for some Refs. Now there have been various examples of Trainers using substitutions against their opponents effectively in battle, however I think that the wording matters and can add to the confusion. I also post this issue, as it's a trend I've been noticing among various Trainers to try and circumvent every possible attack from every conceivable angle in every available direction. Granted this tactic has it's limits and can't cover everything, however the wording of various attacks should and does have an effect upon how the battle plays out.

But when both attacks use substitutions based upon the substitutions of moves, what happens first? How does it happen? And how can it play out in the overall round where it doesn't have trainers demanding why their attack didn't work or their combo failed.

And thus I propose this question to you, my fellow Refs and ASB participants.

How do you deal with confusing commands like the given examples when for one to happen, the first must have begun?

When is the priority given to Pokemon in the battle for this set of attack slots to unfold?

Do you just go with one and then pick which one actually affects which Pokemon in which order?

Should there be warnings against unclear attack commands that lead to this type of confusion on the part of the Refs?

[chaos_redefined]

In my opinion, the only subs that the person posting second can use are for cases of things with a random component. In the above situation, I would tell this to MetalllixsGirl and ask her to repost her attacks. Metallixs Girl already has the ability to figure out what attacks Ayeun is using if she posts a list of 3.

Examples of things that the second poster can sub for: "If you didn't attack due to paralysis", "If hypnosis missed" (or "If you are asleep"), "If you are on less than 50% hp", etc...

[DarkestLight]

I'm speaking as a ref only

Taking the examples you've provided here, and the one I'm grabbing from our battle, I'm gonna answer these concerns to explain how I think.

#1 Deciding the order is based on the first attack. Ayeun's scenario is pretty straightforward, its only swapping one attack at the onset of the other. Yeah I can see the confusion with Curse being used and then stopped-but if the Pokemon (as per your description) is noticeably ready to protect against it, then Ayeun's Pokemon can feasibly go to the second set of attacks.

However, the second set is a bit..outrageous. The wording is messed up for sure and well that might work to MxG's disadvantage. You could be nice and just read it as Teleport from Curse. The second slot is ick though; that's three subs-hell it could be two cause there's no real attack there if Curse OR Dark Pulse isn't used! xD.

You can ask for clarification of that attack command set as well Mewy. You don't have to struggle to figure out what they mean.

#2: Usually I look at the Pokemon fighting. A Ledian isn't beating an Aerodactyl. A Gastly prolly moves faster than a Squirtle. I don't use speed persay, but I kinda do a range, where some Pokemon are visibly faster than others. If yer in a spot where two Pokemon seem they could be evenly matched, flip a coin. Makes the match interesting.

#3: Yes, I do. This way its actually less attacks I have to think about subbing. Or, I can do something like what TML does and they kinda get confused because they're too busy anticipating attacks. You can't anticipate everything.

This is where I use our battle. I said if you used Taunt or Me First-I want Rocksnot to use Explosion. This is simple and direct. The ref can go "ok , only if this happens-he will explode. Otherwise, use these attacks"

#4. If you feel its necessary to deal with the reffing in a timely fashion. You can alert them that substitution of moves may lead to Pokemon not attacking(or-as the ref-you can agree to ref only if Sub moves are knocked to a minimum, or none at all)

That's my two cents buddy n_n. I'm eager to hear what everyone else has to say.

[Blademaster]

I'd have the Curse be Teleported from, which causes a switch to Dark Pulse, which is then reflected by Mirror Coat. That's two attacks used right there. Then the Curse and Attract would be used. That means Psychic and Shadow Ball get chopped clean off.

Sorry, but if you want a do-over, then repost clearer attacks. A paradox isn't going to make a lot of headway with either battler.

[MeLoVeGhOsTs]

I'd just roll it in a carpet and throw it off a bridge! Hihihi.

[chaos_redefined]

The problem with a lot of the solutions mentioned so far is that Ayeun's attacks aren't unreasonable. Subs can be used by the first poster in the manner she has done so. MetallixsGirl is the one who made the confusion by trying to out-sub the sub.

Subs are used to protect against unknown information, such as what the opponent will do or whether you get paralyzed/confused on attacks. Metallixs Girl knew what her opponent would do, but tried to sub for it, so her sub should be invalid.

[MeLoVeGhOsTs]

Agreeing with above user.

[MeLoVeGhOsTs]

Happy birthday to Denny! Have a good time.

Oh, I dropped two points.

*whistles*

[Mew Master]

And btw I <3 the name XD

[chaos_redefined]

Happy b'day denz.

[DarkestLight]

*clap clap* I applaud the alliteration. Happy Bday.

..Still getting yer eggs Friday >P