2012 U.S. Presidential Election

[Roy Karrde]

You know who's a very sweet and charming person?

My grandmother.

My grandmother, who is a spritely and generous old lady.

My grandmother, who I love more than anyone in the senior citizen world and have nothing but gratitude and respect for.

My grandmother, who is as

dumb

as

a

fucking

BAG OF ROCKS.

If you vote for someone just because they're nice, you're a fool. Kindness is a vital virtue for anyone; I will never deny that, but you have to be a slobbering braindead invertebrate to believe that a person who displays only kindness with no intelligence, authority, influence, and determination to back it up would make a good leader in the modern world.

That is very true, but by and large many of the Republicans out there share the vast majority of the same ideas, and same beliefs. Thus like Clinton vs Obama, it comes down to personal preference.

Also to get a bit more back on topic, the President has decided to double down on being "Anti Separation of Church and State"

President Obama “reinforced” his stance on the controversial contraception mandate while speaking at the Democrats’ annual retreat at Nationals Park in Washington, D.C. today, Senate Democrats said.

The retreat was closed to media.

Following President Obama’s speech at the retreat, a small group of Senate Democrats, mostly women, left the retreat early in order to hold a news conference on Capitol Hill to counter the Republicans’ news conference today at which they called for the mandate to be overturned…

“The power to decide whether or not to use contraception lies with a woman – not her boss,” said Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand, D-N.Y. “What is more intrusive than trying to allow an employer to make medical decisions for someone who works for them?”

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...ratic-retreat/

First lets answer Gillibrand's question, Religiously-affiliated groups don’t claim the power to decide whether women employees should “use” contraception, if they did, we wouldn’t be having a conversation over who should pay for the contraception that their employees use.

But more to the point this is shaping up to have all the characteristics of the cluster fuck that was Obamacare, how so? Lets look at what vulnerable Democrats are saying now.

“It’s a question of whether or not we’re going to allow — as we should — an institution that has a religious mission to make decisions that are consistent with their faith tradition,” Casey said. “Unfortunately what this does is impose upon them rules that I don’t think we should impose upon an institution that has a faith mission.”

Casey has written to Obama asking him to reverse HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius’s decision.

http://www.nationalreview.com/campai...-what-hes-done

And what say you Tom Kaine?

“I think the White House made a good decision in including a mandate for contraception coverage in the Affordable Care Act insurance policy, but I think they made a bad decision in not allowing a broad enough religious employer exemption,” Kaine said, according to a transcript of his remarks provided by his campaign.

“This is something that’s been talked about a lot today and I have definitely expressed my grave concerns to the White House about that. I support the contraception mandate but there should be a religious employer exemption that is broader than the one they proposed.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...vzQ_story.html

And others too!

Sen. Joe Manchin, D-W.Va., who faces re-election in November, sent a letter to Obama complaining that the mandate is a "direct affront to religious freedoms."

Rep. Dan Lipinski, D-Ill., said in January that the decision "violates the long-standing tradition of protection for conscience rights in federal law."

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...#ixzz1lrFRhctA

Catholics are already planning to take to the streets in protest, and the polls are not looking good for Obama on this issue, so lets see where we are at, a Constitutional Violation, a tone deaf President, a angry populous, and vulnerable Democrats backing away.

Good God President Obama is creating all the effects of the hatred and damage created by Obamacare with just a few months left to election day! EXCELLENT!

[Dark Sage]

Like I said, Roy, I'm Catholic, I'm Liberal, and I agree with the President on this stupid arguement.

The Catholic church's hardline stance on birth control has never been their most popular belief, btw. I know plenty of Catholics who defy the church and regularly use contraception.

[Roy Karrde]

Like I said, Roy, I'm Catholic, I'm Liberal, and I agree with the President on this stupid arguement.

The Catholic church's hardline stance on birth control has never been their most popular belief, btw. I know plenty of Catholics who defy the church and regularly use contraception.

Two problems, this isn't about the Catholic church and contraception, it is about the separation of church and state. Second, the Catholic Church would not be forced to just pay for say condoms, they would be forced to pay for things that include even sterilization.

Finally you may be Catholic and Liberal, but from the polls of voters, you are also in the minority.

[Dark Sage]

Fine, Roy.

Remember the Seperation of Church and State thing when Santorum argues against gay rights because of his religious views on homosexuality.

[Roy Karrde]

Fine, Roy.

Remember the Seperation of Church and State thing when Santorum argues against gay rights because of his religious views on homosexuality.

And that is fine for him, he may have religion shape his judgement on things, however if the church begins to order or force that he act a certain way then you have a problem. Just like Obama is mandating that the church must act a certain way.

[Dark Sage]

He's not mandating that the church act in a certain-way. He's mandating that institutions funded by the church follow the same rules as anyone else.

The church can have any opinion that they want, but exceptions cannot be made to the health care rules put in effect for anyone else. If a woman wants birth control pills, and her employer doesn't believe in using them, she shouldn't have to quit her job and get another one in order to get health insurance that covers them.

[Roy Karrde]

He's not mandating that the church act in a certain-way. He's mandating that institutions funded by the church follow the same rules as anyone else.

The church can have any opinion that they want, but exceptions cannot be made to the health care rules put in effect for anyone else. If a woman wants birth control pills, and her employer doesn't believe in using them, she shouldn't have to quit her job and get another one in order to get health insurance that covers them.

Which is a distinction with out a difference as those institutions are a arm of the church. And if a woman wishes to get birth control she can go out and buy it, the employer is not the only place that a person can find birth control, it is widely available at any market. The church nor the Government should violate the line of Church and State to provide what is a easily bought product.

I will remind you also that the Supreme Court also has upheld the fact that religious institutions are a arm of the Church and subject to the same exemptions from the law that a church does. In fact the decision was so easy to make I do not believe even one judge dissented.