2012 U.S. Presidential Election

[Dark Sage]

What follows is an editorial opinion. Opposing viewpoints are welcome.

This thread has been rather quiet lately. Maybe it’s because of the disgrace that the GOP has become.

Due to Rush Limbaugh’s chauvinistic… No, check that, misogynistic statements that he refuses to recant, the Republican candidates have practically lost the edge they had against Obama on the contraception issue. Santorum can argue until he’s blue in the face that the issue is about religion, but the only women voters who he’ll draw to his side because of it are nuns. Maybe.

And the way Santorum and Romney’s enmity (calling a “rivalry” at this point doesn’t seem to fit) keeps getting dirtier, you’d think their names were Hatfield and McCoy. I have seen such an immature political fight in my lifetime.

When a Republican these days opens his mouth, I hear stupidity. Then Obama speaks, and I hear logical talk explaining why what the Republicans say is stupid. All the people who eight months ago were chanting “Anyone but Obama in 2012!”… Golly, I wonder where those guys are? I haven’t heard from them in a long time.

What's my point? Obama hardly needs to do anything to win re-election. His opponents are doing a good job of making sure of that for him.

That’s my two cents.

[Roy Karrde]

What follows is an editorial opinion. Opposing viewpoints are welcome.

This thread has been rather quiet lately. Maybe it’s because of the disgrace that the GOP has become.

Or you know its because you keep losing debates and running away.

Due to Rush Limbaugh’s chauvinistic… No, check that, misogynistic statements that he refuses to recant, the Republican candidates have practically lost the edge they had against Obama on the contraception issue. Santorum can argue until he’s blue in the face that the issue is about religion, but the only women voters who he’ll draw to his side because of it are nuns. Maybe.

Except it is still about religion, Rush Limbaugh is a shock jock, a talk show host that throws out things to get ratings. And really what he said was pretty tame comparatively to what has been said about this woman by other radio show hosts. That being said it does not take away the underlying issue, and that is Obama violated the Separation of Church and State.

And the way Santorum and Romney’s enmity (calling a “rivalry” at this point doesn’t seem to fit) keeps getting dirtier, you’d think their names were Hatfield and McCoy. I have seen such an immature political fight in my lifetime.

Missed the Clinton/Obama fighting didnt cha? Because if you say you have not seen such immature political fighting in your life time then you really must have had a blind eye in 2008.

When a Republican these days opens his mouth, I hear stupidity. Then Obama speaks, and I hear logical talk explaining why what the Republicans say is stupid. All the people who eight months ago were chanting “Anyone but Obama in 2012!”… Golly, I wonder where those guys are? I haven’t heard from them in a long time.

What's my point? Obama hardly needs to do anything to win re-election. His opponents are doing a good job of making sure of that for him.

That’s my two cents.

Please, have Obama do nothing for 2012, by your logic McCain should have coasted to a victory. Now I realize Obama has been a miserable cluster fuck, and he really doesn't have anything to run on, so please let him set back. He will be out on his ass before he knows it.

[Dark Sage]

I'll give an example of what I'm talking about. This happened just today.

Obama was holding a fundraiser in New York. A heckler (who did not have the floor, and was completely out of line) shouted, "Use your leadership! No war with Iran!"

That was the stupidy spouted by the GOP.

Here was the President's reply to her, which showed how stupid it was.

"Nobody's announced a war, young lady, but we appreciate your sentiment. You're jumping the gun a little bit there."

He by all rights should have had security show her out. But he proved he was the bigger man, and the smarter one.

[Roy Karrde]

I'll give an example of what I'm talking about. This happened just today.

Obama was holding a fundraiser in New York. A heckler (who did not have the floor, and was completely out of line) shouted, "Use your leadership! No war with Iran!"

That was the stupidy spouted by the GOP.

Here was the President's reply to her, which showed how stupid it was.

"Nobody's announced a war, young lady, but we appreciate your sentiment. You're jumping the gun a little bit there."

He by all rights should have had security show her out. But he proved he was the bigger man, and the smarter one.

So because a left wing ( and really saying it was someone from the GOP is rather idiotic seeing how the left is the one that has been protesting against any action with Iran ) protester shouted at a event, and he responded to it, that shows he is a bigger/smarter man? You realize how many times at events a protester shouts something out at the candidate and they are forced to respond or else let it linger?

[Dark Sage]

Roy, I can't remember any sitting President except Obama getting hecklers at all. This has happened before, in case you forgot. By a member of the House, if I recall.

There has been a sad lack of respect for this man ever since he took office. Even if he is a bad President, he isn't getting the respect that a man holding the position deserves.

[Roy Karrde]

Roy, I can't remember any sitting President except Obama getting hecklers at all. This has happened before, in case you forgot. By a member of the House, if I recall.

There has been a sad lack of respect for this man ever since he took office. Even if he is a bad President, he isn't getting the respect that a man holding the position deserves.

You must really have selective amnesia, and I mean like really bad selective amnesia, you really seem to need to check that out.

Because seemingly not only have you forgotten key events like say Bush having shoes thrown at him in Iraq. But also him getting heckled at events, and hell you seem to have even forgotten the utter pathetic lack of respect he got since he got office. ( Stole a election, caused 9/11, war for oil, wants to strip seniors of social security, hates Black people, the list goes on and on and on ).

[Dark Sage]

Roy, I won't be convinced that Obama has been disrespected less than Bush until that lunatic Orly Taitz is held in contempt of court and locked up.

And it wasn't an American citizen who threw those shoes at Bush. It's no secret that everyone in the Middle East hates Americans, even the ones we're helping. They were dancing in the streets when the World Trade Center collapsed.

[Roy Karrde]

Roy, I won't be convinced that Obama has been disrespected less than Bush until that lunatic Orly Taitz is held in contempt of court and locked up.

You know what if you are so ignorant to believe that Obama hasn't been disrespected than Bush, there really is no use trying.

And it wasn't an American citizen who threw those shoes at Bush. It's no secret that everyone in the Middle East hates Americans, even the ones we're helping. They were dancing in the streets when the World Trade Center collapsed.

You want American citizens?

Here is one


Here is another that tried to rush the stage
Notice in this one Bush supported his freedom of speech


Here are tens of thousands of Democrats disrespecting the President.

[Dark Sage]

But did Bush ever have to prove that he was eligible for the Presidency? It's gotten so that a guy in Alaska has claimed that Obama is not eligible to be President because of his race (a despicable person, but commendable for being the most honest Birther I have yet to hear about).

Going back to the original subject, here's Santorum's response to Limbaugh's comments. (He didn't condemn the statements, I might add.):

"He's being absurd, but that's you know, an entertainer can be absurd," Santorum told CNN's Wolf Blitzer on "The Situation Room." "He's in a very different business than I am."

Now, that seems benign on the surface, but the thing is... If Mr. Santorum is calling Limbaugh an "entertainer", is he not implying that Rush's purpose is to "entertain" in the way an actor does? That Rush doesn't mean the things he says?

I think not. I tend to think that "entertainment" is merely a front for his desire to mock women and express that they aren't worthy of anything but serving men. And that is why women voters are likely going to be turned away from the GOP.

[Roy Karrde]

But did Bush ever have to prove that he was eligible for the Presidency? It's gotten so that a guy in Alaska has claimed that Obama is not eligible to be President because of his race (a despicable person, but commendable for being the most honest Birther I have yet to hear about).

Yes he did, the left in all their fury from losing the 2000 election began to float conspiracy theories about Bush being President and thus wasn't the elected President, and thus should not be in the White House, just like the Birthers do now.

Going back to the original subject, here's Santorum's response to Limbaugh's comments. (He didn't condemn the statements, I might add.):

"He's being absurd, but that's you know, an entertainer can be absurd," Santorum told CNN's Wolf Blitzer on "The Situation Room." "He's in a very different business than I am."

Now, that seems benign on the surface, but the thing is... If Mr. Santorum is calling Limbaugh an "entertainer", is he not implying that Rush's purpose is to "entertain" in the way an actor does? That Rush doesn't mean the things he says?

I think not. I tend to think that "entertainment" is merely a front for his desire to mock women and express that they aren't worthy of anything but serving men. And that is why women voters are likely going to be turned away from the GOP.

I would suggest that you look up the terms "Shock Jock" Santorum is right ( and I am not a Santorum fan ) Rush Limbaugh is a entertainer, much in the same way as Howard Stern, he says absurd things, he gets people talking, and he gets higher ratings. ( I would say the same thing about the MSNBC staff, and Air America, but they don't get the ratings ).

[Dark Sage]

Uh huh...

And when Don Imus, another "shock jock" called the Rutger's women's basketball team "nappy-headed hoes", no-one thought it was entertaining or funny, and they canned him within a week.

[Roy Karrde]

Uh huh...

And when Don Imus, another "shock jock" called the Rutger's women's basketball team "nappy-headed hoes", no-one thought it was entertaining or funny, and they canned him within a week.

Actually I am sure alot of his audience found it entertaining and funny, considering that I listen to a guy who says ALOT worse, and even has a "Don Imus" impersonation. Shock Jocks say things that are offensive, that is their job, and that is one of the reason's South Park became so popular.

By the way I will remind you that Don Imus also had a clause in his contract that anything he said that was offensive he had to get a warning on it first from CBS. Because CBS in all their stupidity fired him ( Virginia Tech happened the next week, no one would have cared if they had just waited a week ) he got to sue them.

[Dark Sage]

Roy, twice now you've referenced a radio personality who has said things even worse than the worst things that either Imus or Rush has said. (And likely worse than whay Stern has said.) I'll bite. Who is this guy? (And if you're a fan of such a person, then you should be ashamed.)

You mentioned South Park, by the way. I don't like that show, but at least Comedy Central (where I believe it is aired) had the sense to show it late at night, where a controversial and MA-rated show should be aired. Rush's show is on when people are having their breakfast. And likely, some of the things he says are enough to make them lose it.

[Roy Karrde]

Roy, twice now you've referenced a radio personality who has said things even worse than the worst things that either Imus or Rush has said. (And likely worse than whay Stern has said.) I'll bite. Who is this guy? (And if you're a fan of such a person, then you should be ashamed.)

You mentioned South Park, by the way. I don't like that show, but at least Comedy Central (where I believe it is aired) had the sense to show it late at night, where a controversial and MA-rated show should be aired. Rush's show is on when people are having their breakfast. And likely, some of the things he says are enough to make them lose it.

Yeah and Russ Martin ( Show I have referenced in the past I believe on the forums ) is on in the afternoons, and Howard Stern is on in the morning. Radio works differently than TV, for Radio the most opportune hours are the two drive times ( morning and afternoon ), while for TV it is the evening.

[Dark Sage]

And Roy, going back to your South Park comparison... Every episode in that show's history has begun with the following tongue-in-cheek disclaimer:

"All characters and events in this show - even those based on real people - are entirely fictional. All celebrity voices are impersonated..... poorly. The following program contains coarse language and due to its content it should not be viewed by anyone."

It seems like a joke, but it really means that the show itself is a joke, and should not be taken seriously. Shock jocks never have a disclaimer, and never claim that anything they say is a joke. Which goes back to my original sentiment: I fully believe that Rush means what he says.

[Roy Karrde]

And Roy, going back to your South Park comparison... Every episode in that show's history has begun with the following tongue-in-cheek disclaimer:

"All characters and events in this show - even those based on real people - are entirely fictional. All celebrity voices are impersonated..... poorly. The following program contains coarse language and due to its content it should not be viewed by anyone."

It seems like a joke, but it really means that the show itself is a joke, and should not be taken seriously. Shock jocks never have a disclaimer, and never claim that anything they say is a joke. Which goes back to my original sentiment: I fully believe that Rush means what he says.

If you honestly believe that, believe that Howard Stern, Russ Martin, Rush Limbaugh, etc etc believe everything what they say when they are trying to be outlandish, trying to get attention. Then you really need to get radio. Many times these people are playing a character, some one who may have those views, but take them and ratchet it up to the extreme. I have no doubt that Rush Limbaugh may have thought the girl was a idiot for her testimony. But I do not believe that he wanted her to post sex videos online, just like I do not believe Russ thinks of her as a "Bitch" or "Slut" or "Cunt" as he said on the air and to callers. These are characters, I would take a line Russ says to heart.

"If you cannot tell that this is a show, that this is for entertainment, then you shouldn't be listening".

[Dark Sage]

If anyone else is reading this thread, what do you think?

Does Rush Limbaugh mean what he says? Or is he an actor trying to entertain people?

[Dark Sage]

Oh, I just heard... Today, at least four of Rush Limbaugh's sponsors have announced that they are pulling their ads from Rush's show, starting immediately. They didn't think that what he said was "entertaining".

Rush may have truly crossed the line this time.

[Roy Karrde]

Hey Dark Sage, the Liberal Commentator Bill Maher last night said this about Rich Santorum.

"If Rick Santorum is your youth minister, you’d ask your parents to switch you to the one who just molests."

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sh...#ixzz1o56v5jzY

Making light of the suffering many children have gone through being raped and molested by adults.

I ask, should the Democratic party speak out against this? Obviously by your logic he is not trying to be a entertainer, or a provoketer, he believes that it is alright to make light of child molestation.

[DarkestLight]

Sure. I'll dive in. Im forced to listen to Rush at work -.-

No. seriously. I'm forced, its on every effing radio. Pisses me off cause I hate talk radio, let alone political talk radio. Dennis Miller, Rush, Glenn Beck, all day vomit.

Now, I'm not aligned with any party, cause parties are stupid. But most ....common people in Montana are Republicans. Whether they say it or not. So its funny for me to sit there and hear Rush talk, and they laugh, and then he says something that I actually thunk is funny-and they go "Well, that's not exactly what I think?"

My point? I laugh at the moments when he's being a complete ignorant ranter on something or someone. I don't care for the political inclinatiion. Its merely made to make you either go Oh! or HA!

Some people have thicker skin than others. I happen to have really thick skin. Political enviornment skin?Mica-thick:/

Though saying Cunswaggler is a little much, society hasn't come far enough to encourage that word as much as even the N-word.

[Dark Sage]

Roy, unlike you, I am not blindly loyal to my political party.

I think Bill Maher is an abomination who has no right to call himself a Democrat.

[Roy Karrde]

Roy, unlike you, I am not blindly loyal to my political party.

xD I hope you are joking. Because your posts say otherwise.

I think Bill Maher is an abomination who has no right to call himself a Democrat.

In that we both agree, however Bill Maher has given $1 million dollars to a White House endorsed Super Pac that has members of the White House actively campaigning for money in it. Will Barack Obama repudiate what he has said and discontinue the relationship with his Super Pac until they give back the money?

[Dark Sage]

He's returned money from controversial donors before.

And if the GOP refutes the Super Pacs, then I think the President should. But not a minute before. After all, they started the whole thing.

[Roy Karrde]

He's returned money from controversial donors before.

And if the GOP refutes the Super Pacs, then I think the President should. But not a minute before. After all, they started the whole thing.

Difference here is that Obama is directly organizing with his Super PACs by having Government Members under the White House actively coordinating with it, thus bringing a whole new level of coordination that the GOP hasn't done yet. Also I thought Obama was the "Bigger man" and the "Adult" shouldn't he do it first if that is true?

[Dark Sage]

Roy, you just admitted that Obama, is more organized than the GOP, somehthing that I've been saying for months!

As for Bill Maher contributing to Democrat Super Pacs, I'm sure Glenn Beck (another "entertainer", you may claim, and I must admit, the folks on Fox do nothing but make me laugh) has donated a lot to Republican ones, never mind what Limbaugh and other controversial Republicans like Donald Trump have donated to. You don't see Santorum or Romney telling them to take their money and shove it.

[Roy Karrde]

Roy, you just admitted that Obama, is more organized than the GOP, somehthing that I've been saying for months!

If the bar for organization is set, as to which side is engaging in more illegal activities that could constitute fundraising fraud, I freely admit that Obama beats the GOP in organization. Because the GOP hasn't gone anywhere close to the potential illegal activities Obama has engaged in.

As for Bill Maher contributing to Democrat Super Pacs, I'm sure Glenn Beck (another "entertainer", you may claim, and I must admit, the folks on Fox do nothing but make me laugh) has donated a lot to Republican ones, never mind what Limbaugh and other controversial Republicans like Donald Trump have donated to. You don't see Santorum or Romney telling them to take their money and shove it.

A: Santorum and Romney are not connected to their Super PAC in the way Obama is.

B: Got any proof?

[Dark Sage]

Where's your proof that Obama has done something illegal, Roy? I don't see any Ken Starr wannabes doing any investigations, or the GOP controlled House making good on their threat to subpoena information for them.

As for the names I mentioned, let's just say they've been caught in some embarrassing situations. Trump claimed that a CNN poll put him even with Obama back in October, only for CNN itself to say that no such poll existed. He also presented his birth certificate online and challenged Obama to do so, only for someone to look at what he posted and prove that THIS was a fake one.

[Roy Karrde]

Where's your proof that Obama has done something illegal, Roy? I don't see any Ken Starr wannabes doing any investigations, or the GOP controlled House making good on their threat to subpoena information for them.

Well first it wouldn't be up to the House but the FEC to investigate Obama. Second my proof is in the press release.

Aides said the president had signed off on a plan to dispatch cabinet officials, senior advisers at the White House and top campaign staff members to make clear to donors that they should support Priorities USA Action, the leading Democratic “super PAC,” whose fund-raising has been dwarfed by Republican groups. The new policy was presented to the campaign’s National Finance Committee in a call Monday evening and was set to be announced Tuesday.

Lets look at what lawyers say about this?

"The law says candidates cannot “coordinate” with super PACs. That means they cannot request, assent to, or suggest any super PAC activities."

Making conference calls to coordinate the Super PAC and your own reelection committee? Umm that is a major no-no. However since it takes two years for a investigation to take place, no charges would be fired if so before Obama is out of office.

As for the names I mentioned, let's just say they've been caught in some embarrassing situations. Trump claimed that a CNN poll put him even with Obama back in October, only for CNN itself to say that no such poll existed. He also presented his birth certificate online and challenged Obama to do so, only for someone to look at what he posted and prove that THIS was a fake one.

I asked for proof of donations not for proof of them doing anything stupid. Those people are national figures who usually are on TV or on the Radio several times a week, they are going to say something stupid, its human nature.

[Dark Sage]

Fine, Roy, I have no proof that they made donations.

I guess no one has any proof that OJ Simpson is a murderer either, even though it's rather obvious.

[Roy Karrde]

Fine, Roy, I have no proof that they made donations.

I guess no one has any proof that OJ Simpson is a murderer either, even though it's rather obvious.

That has to be one of if not the most disgusting posts you have made yet. To compare your lack of proof of someone donating to a candidate or candidates to actual murder. That is beyond despicable.

[Dark Sage]

No Roy, what's despicable is you demanding proof of donations when only a blind slug would believe that they haven't. Your argument would hold up in court, but I'm no judge. Technicalities don't interest me. I'm a voter.

[Roy Karrde]

No Roy, what's despicable is you demanding proof of donations when only a blind slug would believe that they haven't. Your argument would hold up in court, but I'm no judge. Technicalities don't interest me. I'm a voter.

So it is despicable to ask for proof in a debate? I have proof of Maher announcing he is giving the money. So far you have nothing but suspicion and innuendo. If you find asking for proof in a debate to be despicable then I would suggest you leave now and do not bother coming back.

[Dark Sage]

I will go nowhere Roy. Not while you think you rule this forum with your narrow mind.

You claim to be"no fan of Santorum", but you fall short of saying he has bad ideas, nor will you face reality and admit that he'd never defeat Obama in the general election. You supported Bachman, Cain, and Palin, three of the biggest fools ever to grace the Republican party. And you say you aren't blindly loyal?

There are plenty of Democrats that I would never have voted for, including both of Reagan's opponents, Gary Hart, and probably Hillary. I despised Ralph Nadar (who was a Democrat in all but name when he ran as an independent) who I thought was a complete idiot.

You are simply to stubborn to admit that anyone running on a conservative ticket or anyone supporting them can be wrong, and will use any means at your disposal, including making baseless accusations against the President, to prove your point.

Well, here's a reality check. As all the governors of this country said at their conference last week, I don't see a victory for the GOP in November. People like you can fantasize about them winning the White House and the Senate, but they are going to lose BAD.

I said it... I feel better...

[Roy Karrde]

I will go nowhere Roy. Not while you think you rule this forum with your narrow mind.

You claim to be"no fan of Santorum", but you fall short of saying he has bad ideas, nor will you face reality and admit that he'd never defeat Obama in the general election. You supported Bachman, Cain, and Palin, three of the biggest fools ever to grace the Republican party. And you say you aren't blindly loyal?

There are plenty of Democrats that I would never have voted for, including both of Reagan's opponents, Gary Hart, and probably Hillary. I despised Ralph Nadar (who was a Democrat in all but name when he ran as an independent) who I thought was a complete idiot.

You are simply to stubborn to admit that anyone running on a conservative ticket or anyone supporting them can be wrong, and will use any means at your disposal, including making baseless accusations against the President, to prove your point.

Well, here's a reality check. As all the governors of this country said at their conference last week, I don't see a victory for the GOP in November. People like you can fantasize about them winning the White House and the Senate, but they are going to lose BAD.

I said it... I feel better...

I don't think I rule the forum, I believe I can beat you at a debate easily, the level you have stooped to now shows how easily I have gotten under your skin by beating you in debates.

By the way I have admitted I would vote against Ron Paul, and he is running on a conservative ticket.

By the way you can keep believing they will lose the White House and the Senate, but unlike you I do not make predictions and say they will win or lose. Because those tend to come back and bite you in the ass if they turn out to be false.

[Dark Sage]

I know you wouldn't support Paul. Only someone desiring membership in the KKK would.

By the way, to my incredible surprise, Limbaugh apologized for what he said.

Of course, I live in Brooklyn... And for anyone who believes it was sincere, there's a big bridge near my apartment that I can offer you for a good price...

[firepokemon]

This thread cracks me up. Winning poke debates is cool. ^_^

[DarkestLight]

With fp on this one. I wanna get these two a talk show. I could listen to them all day.

[Blademaster]

'Jump in?' OK!

But firepokemon has made a good point, so I think I'll debate not with walls of text, but humorous pictures, since the latter can't be ignored as easily as the former. That being said...

Roy, unlike you, I am not blindly loyal to my political party.

Roy, I won't be convinced that Obama has been disrespected less than Bush until that lunatic Orly Taitz is held in contempt of court and locked up.

It's no secret that everyone in the Middle East hates Americans, even the ones we're helping.

[Dark Sage]

I don't go on talk shows. The purpose of a talk show is to embarrass people for entertainment.

They're just descreet about it, unlike other mediums that do the same thing, like reality shows.

Edit: I gotta admit, this is getting a little ridiculous. You know things have gotten out of control when Blade starts insulting you. Maybe it's true what Linus said: There are three things you never discuss with people, religion, politics, and the Great Pumpkin.

[Heald]

There are three things you never discuss with people, religion, politics, and the Great Pumpkin.

So the Great Pumpkin is an allegory for sex in Peanuts? Huh.