2012 U.S. Presidential Election

[Roy Karrde]

Roy, the GOP has a Super PAC that's funded by a guy who believes homosexuality is in the same class as bestiality. I forget his name, but he always hung around Santorum during the primaries. He's supporting Romney now.

Romney seems all to willing to work with this bigot's Super PAC, so please don't complain about the ones Obama is using.

Thing is, no one has asked Obama to disavow any affiliation with Bill Maher, nor have they continued to ask him to comment on his continued misogamy. Until Obama does, I see no reason why Romney should do the same for Limbaugh. And by the way, gays are not a contested group with Republicans, while what he said may not be appropriate to say on the national stage, the difference between the man and Maher, is that Maher's continued statements potentially hurt Obama as he battles to keep women in his camp.

[Dark Sage]

Roy, if you want the truth, I think that all Super PACs are a bad idea, and the Supreme Court was drunk when they made the decision regarding them.

[Roy Karrde]

Just for some fun between the campaigns before the actual tough slog starts.

ABC News: Obama as a boy, ate dog meat

For the Obama Campaign to go after Romney for the dog ontop of the car story, the Daily Caller found the story in Obama's book that he ate dog meat as a child. and thus the dog wars began...

Okay not really, it provided some fun back and forth over twitter between the campaign's, so with a hard campaign about to begin, it's actually relaxing to see the campaign's poke fun at eachother for a moment before they get into the real debate.



Run for your life Bo! RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!

[Dark Sage]

Really funny.

Here's another funny story. You may have heard about how Ted Nugent has endorsed Mr. Romney. Nugent said that he would "either be dead or in jail" in November if Mr. Obama was re-elected. Now THAT'S an endorsement that I'm certain that a politician does not want.

Seriously, if Mr. Romney had any self-respect, he would ignore this foul-mouthed cretin's endorsement and not even acknowledge it.

Edit: By the way, Roy, in Indonesia, eating dogs is quite common. I doubt that Mr. Obama has any plans to eat Bo.

[Roy Karrde]

Really funny.

Here's another funny story. You may have heard about how Ted Nugent has endorsed Mr. Romney. Nugent said that he would "either be dead or in jail" in November if Mr. Obama was re-elected. Now THAT'S an endorsement that I'm certain that a politician does not want.

Seriously, if Mr. Romney had any self-respect, he would ignore this foul-mouthed cretin's endorsement and not even acknowledge it.

Edit: By the way, Roy, in Indonesia, eating dogs is quite common. I doubt that Mr. Obama has any plans to eat Bo.

Dude A: Unclinch your ass, and enjoy a harmless political joke. Because that is what it is, a harmless joke.

B: Romney has already disavowed this and called for civility yesterday.

Edit: They are even laughing about this on The Morning Joe on MSNBC.

[Dark Sage]

Like I said, Roy, Romney shouldn't have made any response at all, and doing so was a mistake. Jerks like Nugent crave attention, and giving it to them only makes it worse.

I'm no fan of Romney, but I would compare Nugent to the stuff that Romeny scrapes off the bottom of his shoes, and so should Romney.

[Heald]

Great comic from xkcd today:



Translation: stop using strawmen to attack political figures and start actually critiquing their policy. Just because you don't like what Ted Nugent said and because he supports the Republican candidate doesn't make it a valid attack on the Republican candidate.

[Dark Sage]

I meant it as an attack on Nugent, actually. I can't stand him.

[Heald]

It's not particularly relevant though. The rhetoric surrounding this debate has been saturated by people who are not candidates. Attacking a moron like Rush is easy, but it isn't relevant to which candidate is the best person to run America. Nugent is a hardline Republican, no wonder he comes out with a typical 'better dead than red' type of line. The fact it made headlines just shows that no one is talking about the real issues here.

[Dark Sage]

I know, Heald, I know...

Remember that remark you made saying that the folks in Great Britain hated the press? Well, we aren't too fond of ours either. They do this every election year.

That's what made Mike Wallace's death so tragic. He was the last of a dying breed of true reporters, who knew that the news was supposed to report fact, not hype and fluff.

To put it another way, we're sick of hearing about Lindsey Lohan when there are far more important things that the six o'clock news should feature.

[kurai]

i will be shocked if there are more than two weeks of media cycles in total during this campaign about actual policy analysis/comparison

this requires:
1) having an educated populace who would understand and care about the analysis
2) the media having an interest in educating/informing on such issues
3) the media investing time and effort into well-prepared and researched analysis rather than zero-effort celebrity/twitter gossip

the only time anyone will care about policy is for a few days after a presidential debate (assuming that nothing dramatic happened) - and even then it will be dueling talking points and soundbites

people just don't understand any nuance in public policy or administration. this is why polling is done at the most elementary level possible: will obama or romney "get the economy moving"? what? let's generalize to the point at which no one actually knows how policy is created or put into action

ultimately this is the disadvantage of a non-parliamentary system. it's very hard for a fused executive to pretend like they aren't responsible, because that would be nonsense. but otherwise, the media would has to explain how and why a particular government action relates to a specific official and how that relates to the president - this involves a great deal of effort and concentration. before you can even talk about real issues, you have to establish how real issues have a bearing on the candidates. this is easy enough to do on the issue of war and the highest level of foreign policy (because of the titular concept of 'commander-in-chief' and the nature of executive diplomacy), but everything else is really vague. but it is vague in reality, so of course the pop media will take the lazy way out.

[Blademaster]

And don't post the Washing Post story, I already read it.

*Washington Post

Dude A: Unclinch your ass,

Never gonna happen. Give up now.

[Dark Sage]

In other news...

In an interview he gave today, Marc Rubio said that no, he would not be Romney's running mate, not even if Romney begged him, and does not think Romney will even ask him, because he knows that Romney has watched every interview, including this one, where he has expressed that he does not want the position.

I doubt anyone will believe him, however... Chris Christie must have said flat out a hundred times to reporters that he wasn't going to run for President, and people still didn't believe him...

[Dark Sage]

Boy, did Michelle Bachmann say something stupid.

She just did an interview with the conservative blog The Shark Tank in which she addressed Mr. Obama's proposal to curb oil speculation...

"This is just about waving a tar baby in the air and saying that something else is a problem," she said. "I have never seen a more irresponsible president who is infantile in the way that he continually blames everyone else for his failure to first diagnose the problem and second to address the problem."

This is not the first time a Republican has used the term "tar baby" when referring to Mr. Obama's policies, a term that is often used as a derogatory term for African-Americans.

I'm willing, however, to give Mrs. Bachmann the benefit of the doubt, and believe that she was simply too stupid to know that.

So long as she admits it.

Edit: By the way, before Roy or anyone else tries to defend what she said, I'm telling you in advance, I will call BS on it. That was really bad.

[Roy Karrde]

Tar Baby is also used to being or describing a sticky situation. It only took on a derogatory meaning later on, like the use of the word Faggot.

Honestly I am glad she is out of the race, she is increadably tone deaf. Now do I believe she was using it as some kind of dog whistle or racist attack? No. She is using the correct original meaning of that, and the Democrats are responding with faux outrage to it with out even reading what she was saying. Thus really making themselves look stupid.

But this situation does show how utterly tone deaf she is, and not realizing the double meanings some words have.

Edit: Lets see which fits better.

"This is just about waving a sticky situation in the air and saying that something else is a problem," she said. "I have never seen a more irresponsible president who is infantile in the way that he continually blames everyone else for his failure to first diagnose the problem and second to address the problem."

or

"This is just about waving a black baby in the air and saying that something else is a problem," she said. "I have never seen a more irresponsible president who is infantile in the way that he continually blames everyone else for his failure to first diagnose the problem and second to address the problem."

Yeah I think the first context, not the racist one, fits better.

[Dark Sage]

Roy, I know all about the old Uncle Remus story. But it is also still a racial slur that has been used no less than three times by Republicans while referring to Mr. Obama's policies.

To everyone who presents that arguement, I call bullshit. She could have said "scarecrow" or something similar. I was not born yesterday.

[Heald]

Yes, all Republicans are racist, because they know that there is no way that the media will use anything they say that could be construed as remotely racist in order to denigrate their character.

Grow up. Okay, Michelle Bachmann probably does have a deep loathing for all non-whites, but she is crazy as fuck. She is also not who is going to be facing Obama in November, so it's not really relevant.

[Roy Karrde]

Roy, I know all about the old Uncle Remus story. But it is also still a racial slur that has been used no less than three times by Republicans while referring to Mr. Obama's policies.

To everyone who presents that arguement, I call bullshit. I was not born yesterday.

Which again is why I call her tone deaf, but I also am willing to look at the context of what it is said in. Both can be said and addressed, some one saying the word does not necessarily mean using it in a racist context, but can be tone deaf to the current meaning of it.

Edit: Edited to agree completely with Heald

[Dark Sage]

Yes, all Republicans are racist, because they know that there is no way that the media will use anything they say that could be construed as remotely racist in order to denigrate their character.

Grow up. Okay, Michelle Bachmann probably does have a deep loathing for all non-whites, but she is crazy as fuck. She is also not who is going to be facing Obama in November, so it's not really relevant.

Mitt Romney, who IS going to be facing Mr. Obama in November, was the first person to use the term in question. He was still governor then. He had an assistant issue an apology, but it irked me that he didn't do so himself.

[Roy Karrde]

Mitt Romney, who IS going to be facing Mr. Obama in November, was the first person to use the term in question. He was still governor then. He had an assistant issue an apology, but it irked me that he didn't do so himself.

He also used it in terms of the highway problems they were facing.

http://radioequalizer.blogspot.com/2...by-remark.html

It also happened in 2005/2006, before Obama was even President. The fact that the last article I found on it came in 2009, shows how little the media cares about it now. And how pathetic any outrage about it is.

Edit: And to add in some context Tony Snow the White House Spokesman during the Bush Administration used it. And Time Magazine also used it when saying "that John Kerry's presidential advisers were telling him to get away from "the Iraq tar baby.""

http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...#ixzz1sX1CbTZ7

Doesn't sound like a word that automatically equates to racism, but a word those that are 40+ have used to describe a sticky situation.

[Dark Sage]

So tell me, Roy, if this phrase is so harmless, why did both Romney and Doug Lamborn feel the need to issue apologies to Mr. Obama after saying it?

I'm listening.

[Heald]

So tell me, Roy, if this phrase is so harmless, why did both Romney and Doug Lamborn feel the need to issue apologies to Mr. Obama after saying it?

I'm listening.

Did Romney issue an apology to Obama himself? Proof please.

[Dark Sage]

One order of crow, coming up:

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-250_162-1851199.html

[Roy Karrde]

One order of crow, coming up:

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-250_162-1851199.html

Umm dude Obama is not even mentioned in the story. So please, eat your crow.

Infact the story seems to be incorrectly dated, it happened in 2006 not 2009, and makes mention of Romney still as Governor, and considering a Presidential run in 2008.

Also to answer your question, it is easier for a politician to apologize, than to allow a story to fester in the media and be dragged out by partisans who cannot identify real racism from using a word correctly.

[Dark Sage]

It is NOT an appropriate comment, and I am still calling bullshit to all your attempts to defend anyone who uses it.

Why won't you ever admit that a Republican was wrong??

[Roy Karrde]

It is NOT an appropriate comment, and I am still calling bullshit to all your attempts to defend anyone who uses it.

So you are saying that the word Tar Baby has absolutely no use in our culture anymore other than a racist term, even if it is correctly used in it's original term? By the way how does the crow taste?

Why won't you ever admit that a Republican was wrong??

Didn't I call Michelle Bachmann tone deaf for using it?

[Dark Sage]

As you said, Roy, "faggot" was once an acceptable term; I believe it was once a word for firewood. But times change, and it's not a word that is proper to say any more.

Bachmann doesn't seem to understand that. That's her biggest weakness, in fact. She seems to be trapped in a Nineteeth Century mindset about everything.

[Roy Karrde]

As you said, Roy, "faggot" was once an acceptable term; I believe it was once a word for firewood. But times change, and it's not a word that is proper to say any more.

All depends on it's use and context, if a man in his sixties or seventies grew up using the word, would you honestly attack them if they used it for firewood? Same goes with Gay when referring to some one being happy, and so on, and so on.

I will remind you the word only takes on a racist connotation if used in a racist context. If used correctly like Romney and Bachmann did, it is not racist.

Bachmann doesn't seem to understand that. That's her biggest weakness, in fact. She seems to be trapped in a Nineteeth Century mindset about everything.

Does that extend to the Democrats who were on John Kerry's Presidential Team? How about the late Tony Snow?

[Dark Sage]

Yes. Kerry was a blooming idiot, and so was everyone associated with him.

[Roy Karrde]

Yes. Kerry was a blooming idiot, and so was everyone associated with him.

And does that go for Democrat Sen. Sherrod Brown who used the word "Niggardly"?

How about when Harry Reid said that Obama "did not speak with a Negro accent"

Or when Bill Clinton said that "A few years ago Obama would be getting coffee for them"

I mean if we are going to see anything even close to being racist as racist, then lets not stop with Tar Baby.

[Dark Sage]

To answer your questions:

1. Yes

2. Yes

3. While I have nothing but respect for Clinton, yes, and sadly, what he said was likely true

See Roy, I'm not blindly loyal to the Democrats, and if one of them is a big jerk, I'm not going to support him. I'm certainly not going to defend a racist comment that one of them makes.

[Roy Karrde]

To answer your questions:

1. Yes

2. Yes

3. While I have nothing but respect for Clinton, yes, and sadly, what he said was likely true

See Roy, I'm not blindly loyal to the Democrats, and if one of them is a big jerk, I'm not going to support him. I'm certainly not going to defend a racist comment that one of them makes.

By your lack of willing to look at context of things, I would assume you would also believe that President Obama is a seething racist for parroting Reverend Wright's quote of "White Folk's Greed runs a world in need?" in his book?

Or that his White Grandmother was a "Typical White Person" who feared blacks?

[Dark Sage]

Lol.

Rev. Wright is the one who you should be criticising for that one, Roy.

And seeing as Mr. Obama comes from a mixed-race family, I truly doubt that his grandmother was what you say. That comment brings to mind the ridiculous conspiracy theories directed at him that say he's a racist who hates whites.

[Roy Karrde]

Lol.

Rev. Wright is the one who you should be criticising for that one, Roy.

Obama is the one that quoted it. By your logic we should only criticize the person who originally came up with the original racist use of Tar Baby and be fine with everyone else who sues it.

And seeing as Mr. Obama comes from a mixed-race family, I truly doubt that his grandmother was what you say. That comment brings to mind the ridiculous conspiracy theories directed at him that say he's a racist who hates whites.

Have a listen for yourself.

[kurai]

so yeah

let's not spend too much time on looking into who the real racists are (it's a total 2008 gambit)

there have been a large number of polls released in the last few days

Quinnipiac (Apr 17):

Obama 46 - Romney 42

VP Roulette -

Rob Portman;
Rep - 12 Good, 6 Bad, 77 N/O
Dem - 5 Good, 11 Bad, 80 N/O
Ind - 8 Good, 9 Bad, 78 N/O

Marco Rubio;
Rep - 40 Good, 7 Bad, 50 N/O
Dem - 10 Good, 19 Bad, 67 N/O
Ind - 27 Good, 14 Bad, 55 N/O

Susana Martinez (NM Gov);
Rep - 13 Good, 15 Bad, 68 N/O
Dem - 13 Good, 14 Bad, 70 N/O
Ind - 15 Good, 14 Bad, 66 N/O

Paul Ryan;
Rep - 34 Good, 9 Bad, 54 N/O
Dem - 11 Good, 25 Bad, 62 N/O
Ind - 25 Good, 17 Bad, 57 N/O

Bobby Jindal;
Rep - 29 Good, 10 Bad, 58 N/O
Dem - 9 Good, 18 Bad, 70 N/O
Ind - 19 Good, 16 Bad, 60 N/O

Bob McDonnell;
Rep - 14 Good, 6 Bad, 76 N/O
Dem - 6 Good, 14 Bad, 76 N/O
Ind - 9 Good, 13 Bad, 74 N/O

Chris Christie;
Rep - 44 Good, 10 Bad, 44 N/O
Dem - 21 Good, 24 Bad, 53 N/O
Ind - 33 Good, 18 Bad, 47 N/O

Miscellaneous -

Is your opinion of the Republican Party favorable, unfavorable or haven't you heard enough about it?
Favorable 33 - Unfavorable 49 - NII 16

Is your opinion of the Democratic Party favorable, unfavorable or haven't you heard enough about it?
Favorable 37 - Unfavorable 46 - NII 15

Would you say Barack Obama is a likable person or not?
Yes 81 - No 14

Would you say Mitt Romney is a likable person or not?
Yes 63 - No 24


CBS News (Apr 17):

Obama 46 - Romney 46

Miscellaneous -






NBC News (Apr 17):

Obama 49 - Romney 43

Miscellaneous -

Approval Spread;



What is your preference for the outcome of this year's congressional elections?
Dem 46 - Rep 44

Would you consider voting for an independent or third-party candidate?
(Among registered voters)
Definitely consider - 13
Probably consider - 27
Probably not consider - 20
Definitely not consider - 38
Not sure - 2




Gallup (Apr 19):

Romney 47 - Obama 44


Rasmussen (Apr 19):

Romney 46 - Obama 45


PPP (Apr 19):

Obama 49 - Romney 46

If the candidates for President this year were Democrat Barack Obama, Republican Mitt Romney, and Libertarian Gary Johnson, who would you vote for?

Obama 47 - Romney 42 - Johnson 6

VP Roulette -

Do you have a favorable or unfavorable opinion of...

		Fav.	Unf.
Joe Biden 	42	48

Marco Rubio 	29	31
Paul Ryan 	25	34
Chris Christie 	36	34
Mike Huckabee 	41	38
Jeb Bush 	37	46
Rick Santorum 	36	48
Sarah Palin 	35	56

If the Democratic ticket was Obama/Biden, and the Republican ticket was Romney/...

Jeb Bush
Obama 48 - Romney 47

Chris Christie
Obama 47 - Romney 47

Mike Huckabee
Obama 48 - Romney 46

Sarah Palin
Obama 50 - Romney 43

Ron Paul
Obama 48 - Romney 44

Marco Rubio
Obama 49 - Romney 43

Paul Ryan
Obama 48 - Romney 43

Rick Santorum
Obama 48 - Romney 46

Miscellaneous -

Who do you think would make a better President: Michelle Obama or Ann Romney?
M. Obama 47 - A. Romney 36

[kurai]

the nbc news and ppp polls are very well produced and include thorough demographics data (if anyone cares to look at them)

i would say we can draw a few notable conclusions from this set of polls

1) the independent/libertarian presence looks like a potential threat to romney's success

• both the democratic and republican party are viewed in a largely unfavorable light
• a potential 6% spoiler is significantly larger than 2000 nader (3%) and closing in on 1996 perot (9%)
• a large number of people are apparently putting real effort into considering the third-party option

2) the vp field is wide open

• we can eliminate quite a few vp choices due to their unfavorability (and that they fail to maintain the tie): palin, santorum, bush, probably also paul
• chris christie's fav-unf spread is really close and he succeeds in closing the gap between obama and romney
• jeb bush somehow manages to close the gap while also being severely unfavorable
• a few regional unknowns are polling evenly in fav-unf and could easily be shaped into an excellent pairing
• susana martinez is demographically and geographically amazing. i would like to see an obama/biden v romney/martinez poll.

3) people really do not like biden. based on the last question and her amazing approval rating, perhaps an obama/obama ticket would make for a good laugh.

[Roy Karrde]

I think we can all agree that for now, and probably for most of the summer, the two will be tied as the public decides if they are willing to ditch Obama for Romney.

[Dark Sage]

I notice that the overall opinion of Palin is pretty low in these polls.

Heh... And to think some people keep insisting she helped McCain...

[Roy Karrde]

I notice that the overall opinion of Palin is pretty low in these polls.

Heh... And to think some people keep insisting she helped McCain...

Yeah because Palin approval now = her approval in 2008.

[Dark Sage]

Sigh...

Romney is responding to the claims by some kook in Montana that Romney's grandfather grew up in a "polygamist commune in Mexico"...

The mudslinging has begun, people... Get a slicker...