2012 U.S. Presidential Election

[Magmar]

sorry but..

YES! THANK YOU MR. PRESIDENT YES!

My state still doesn't have full marriage equality it really shouldn't even be a political issue, it's a civil rights issue and it's time to treat it as such

[Dark Sage]

Which state do you live in, Magmar?

I'm a native of Connecticut and a resident of New York; both of which are places where it is legal.

[Roy Karrde]

Romney ended up scolding a reporter today saying and I quote: “Aren’t there issues of significance that you’d like to talk about?” when it comes to Gay Marriage. It seems he isn't wanting to play ball with Obama and divert attention from the bad economy.

[Blademaster]

stauch

*staunch

Hearld

[Roy Karrde]

Curious question for you Dark Sage. In the ABC interview, he admitted that he had made up his mind a while back. So the question is, why did he not campaign in North Carolina and come out for Gay Marriage before Tuesday? Black Voters supported the amendment by a 2 - 1 margin and Obama's support of it could have changed that, and possibly even defeated it by rallying Democrats in a state Obama carried in 2008. So if this is such a good thing for Gays, why did he wait until AFTER the amendment was passed to come out in support of Gay Marriage?

[Dark Sage]

My answer to your question is, Roy, I have no idea.

But he did say earlier today that he had planned to wait before saying it, at least until the Convention; the reason he chose to say it now was because Biden had made his own view public, and it kind of forced his hand.

At any rate, it's clear that, as you said, Romney is not going to make an issue over this. He does not seem to care.

[Roy Karrde]

My answer to your question is, Roy, I have no idea.

But he did say earlier today that he had planned to wait before saying it, at least until the Convention; the reason he chose to say it now was because Biden had made his own view public, and it kind of forced his hand.

So he was willing to deny hundreds of thousands in a state the opportunity to get married because of political timing?

At any rate, it's clear that, as you said, Romney is not going to make an issue over this. He does not seem to care.

Yup, because there are more important things to worry about.

[Dark Sage]

So he was willing to deny hundreds of thousands in a state the opportunity to get married because of political timing?

He also says that he believes it should be a state's decision, not the federal government's.

Unlike Romney, Gingrich, Bachmann, Santorum, and Cain, who all dreamed of a Constitutional amendment making gay marriage illegal. As if that will ever happen.

[Roy Karrde]

He also says that he believes it should be a state's decision, not the federal government's.

It is a state's decision, that does not mean he could not campaign on the issue and work to get his supporters out to vote. Choosing a candidate for Congress is also a state's decision, that does not stop him from campaigning on that.

Unlike Romney, Gingrich, Bachmann, Santorum, and Cain, who all dreamed of a Constitutional amendment making gay marriage illegal. As if that will ever happen.

Dreamed of it? You are a mind reader now?

[Dark Sage]

Need I remind you of the the pact that they all signed?

[Roy Karrde]

Need I remind you of the the pact that they all signed?

And that means they are dreaming about it? Or making a calculated political move to pick up southern states. Dreaming of it implies they will deeply wish to pass it.

By the way I assume you have given up defending Obama not campaigning for Gay Marriage in North Carolina?

[Dark Sage]

Unbelievable Roy.

You downplay the dumb things that GOP does, yet you flaunt the dumb things that the Democrats do.

The GOP calls this issue a matter of moral and religious principle, completely ignoring the fact that religion is supposed to play no role in this nation's government, and is thus not the President's business. They sign a pact that pretty much amounts to bigorty, and you let it slide.

As I said, unbelievable.

[Roy Karrde]

Unbelievable Roy.

You downplay the dumb things that GOP does, yet you flaunt the dumb things that the Democrats do.

The GOP calls this issue a matter of moral and religious principle, completely ignoring the fact that religion is supposed to play no role in this nation's government, and is thus not the President's business. They sign a pact that pretty much amounts to bigorty, and you let it slide.

As I said, unbelievable.

The GOP is not going around saying that they are for Gay marriage and then leaving Gays to hang out and dry. That is not a dumb thing, that is border line evil. You can say you are for or against it, or sign however many pacts you wish, but when push comes to shove, and when the votes are needed. The President is no where to be seen.

[Dark Sage]

Want to compare good and evil?

Obama: Staunchly opposes bullying in schools.

Romney: WAS a bully while in prep school, as he admitted and apologized for in response to an article in the Washington Post.

Being a victim of bullying myself while I was in high school, I now like him even less.

[Roy Karrde]

Want to compare good and evil?

Obama: Staunchly opposes bullying in schools.

Romney: WAS a bully while in prep school, as he admitted and apologized for in response to an article in the Washington Post.

Being a victim of bullying myself while I was in high school, I now like him even less.

So... you are comparing how Obama is now, to how a teenager acted, man that is low and pathetic, even for your standards man.

[Dark Sage]

Welcome to election year, Roy.

A person wants to run for President, his whole life is going to be under review. Just like how Obama's was in 2008.

And I didn't break the story. The Washington Post did.

[Roy Karrde]

Welcome to election year, Roy.

A person wants to run for President, his whole life is going to be under review. Just like how Obama's was in 2008.

And I didn't break the story. The Washington Post did.

So how a teenager acted is now under review? You apparently think so as you posted it.

By the way where are Obama's college transcripts? You say he was vetted in 2008, but I have yet to see anything major from Obama's childhood really come out. What about a deeper look into Obama's drug use than what he said in his book?

In fact we know nothing about Obama's high school life, and only tidbits of his college life from his book. Where is the investigative reporting on that?

[Dark Sage]

Would you be willing to release your college transcripts to the public?

If not, you and the other conspiracy theorists who don't believe that Mr. Obama's career in Harvard is what he claimed it was can just end your asinine demands for him to do so.

[Roy Karrde]

Would you be willing to release your college transcripts to the public?

If not, you and the other conspiracy theorists who don't believe that Mr. Obama's career in Harvard is what he claimed it was can just end your asinine demands for him to do so.

Why should I have to release it? Reporters got their hands on Rick Perry's with out his permission. They obviously have ways to get it, why are they not looking into it now?

Mind you, you just said a person's entire life is under review during a election. Or did you mean everything "Except Obama's transcripts"?

[Dark Sage]

Roy, listen to yourself. You're starting to sound like the Birthers. Your accusing the President of things that are total baloney.

The story in the Washington Post on the other hand... Romney has admitted to it and apologized for it.

Doesn't make it right, however. I prefer a President who fights bullying in schools above someone who participated in it.

[Roy Karrde]

Roy, listen to yourself. You're starting to sound like the Birthers. Your accusing the President of things that are total baloney.

I am asking for his college transcripts because they do exist, I am not denying that, and because the press seems to have taken a interest into the teen years of the candidates.

Doesn't make it right, however. I prefer a President who fights bullying in schools above someone who participated in it.

Are you really that fucking pathetic and childish? I mean if we are going that route I prefer a President that fights illegal drugs, not uses them. Hell if we are to believe that Romney is still engaging in the same actions as he did as a teenager, then maybe the DEA should raid the White House.

[Dark Sage]

When exactly did Mr. Obama use illegal drugs? This is news to me.

[Roy Karrde]

When exactly did Mr. Obama use illegal drugs? This is news to me.

Obama admitted in his book of using Alcohol, Marijuana, and Cocaine while in College.

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-502323_162-3823725.html

[Dark Sage]

I didn't read the book. I stay away from memoirs written by politicians. All of them.

But note that the information came from him. It wasn't uncovered by a news report that he'd later have to apologize for.

And so he admits that he used drugs while in college, just like most people his age did back then but won't admit to when confronted by their children.

[Roy Karrde]

I didn't read the book. I stay away from memoirs written by politicians. All of them.

But note that the information came from him. It wasn't uncovered by a news report that he'd later have to apologize for.

And so he admits that he used drugs while in college, just like most people his age did back then but won't admit to when confronted by their children.

Yes the information was released by him, it wasn't dug up by a news reporter, which goes back to me saying that the news is digging up inane information on Romney's childhood but not Obama. Thank you for making my point.

[Dark Sage]

The classic response by a politician when something bad about him comes up... "This is the media's fault"...

[Roy Karrde]

The classic response by a politician when something bad about him comes up... "This is the media's fault"...

And how is how one acts while a teenager reflective of how they will govern 50 or so years later?

Edit: Hey Dark Sage, looks like Obama ended up bullying some one as well.



http://twitchy.com/2012/05/10/rut-ro...s-a-bully-too/

I don't see Obama apologizing for bullying this girl in Middle School? Does he hate women? Is he a bully? Apparently so.

[Magmar]

Yup, because there are more important things to worry about.

If there are more important things to worry about, why not just have full marriage equality for two consenting adults if there are to be government-derived benefits derived from engaging in a marriage? (pun intended)

And for the LGBT population who still cannot marry in their home state, myself included (Rhode Island), it is important! I'm going to vote for a candidate who makes my status of equality a priority.

The fact that a sizable chunk of the country--49% or so--are in favor of equality should identify that this is a hot topic. With less than 10% of the population having no opinion either way, that should indicate that this issue is contentious and sure to draw attention. If marriage equality was thoroughly addressed in the first term, it wouldn't be a debate in this election. Minds would be made up. Americans would be getting married all over the place. And the issue could grow obsolete, like it has in many other developed countries. People would still vote against President Obama because of his decision, and there would still be people who would fight it. But once the issue is cleared up, other things can be addressed.

So while the economy being fixed is a bigger issue, and I can identify it as being more important to fix our economy than to fix my marriage issues--the marriage problem is a quick fix. As marriage is already secularized, it should no longer be a religious issue. Hate crime statutes to protect the LGBT population should be nationalized--could you imagine if, say, North Carolina were to have voted against interracial marriage, what an uproar that would be??

It's the same exact thing. My love is no different from your love. I know that, Dark Sage knows that, and the President of the United States of America is in agreement with that. Roy, if you had to pick between two candidates, and one of them was in favor of giving you equal rights to your neighbors of (straight) privilege, and one was against because of his or her religion--wouldn't you consider this in your voting decision?

And that's why it's such a big, contentious issue--because for people like me, "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" is up to the voters. How disgusting is that?

[Roy Karrde]

Roy, if you had to pick between two candidates, and one of them was in favor of giving you equal rights to your neighbors of (straight) privilege, and one was against because of his or her religion--wouldn't you consider this in your voting decision

No I wouldn't as I consider things like the economy is FAR more important than Marriage, especially seeing how right now Congress has no drive to engage in a debate about Marriage, and the President cannot do anything about it. So why would I waste my time considering such a candidate if I know they are not going to do anything about it? I would rather focus on the things that are important to the whole country and that the President could work on.

Instead of being so narcissistic that I would vote for some one based strictly on a single view they hold that strictly benefits me on a issue they cannot control.

And that's why it's such a big, contentious issue--because for people like me, "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" is up to the voters. How disgusting is that?

And I know how you feel, and I am pretty sure Mormons know how you feel too. But here is the thing, if you want the laws change campaign in your state to have them change. If that doesn't work and marriage means everything to you, then feel free to move to a state that does have gay marriage.

[Blademaster]

bigorty

*bigotry

border line

*borderline

no where

*nowhere

[Magmar]

And I know how you feel, and I am pretty sure Mormons know how you feel too. But here is the thing, if you want the laws change campaign in your state to have them change. If that doesn't work and marriage means everything to you, then feel free to move to a state that does have gay marriage.

I do work on this and am seeking an internship with the state's marriage equality campaign and no, I am not moving, I am getting married in the state where I was born, raised and still live. It WILL happen before I go on to get my Ph.D next summer.

Blademaster, either contribute to the discussion or go away. On a Pokemon forum, typos are going to happen.

[Roy Karrde]

So it's Monday, and the Obama Campaign decided to turn their guns on Romney and his Bain experience by calling... Bain Capital a "Vampire"

President Obama’s campaign is out with a tough new ad, “Steel,” attacking former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney’s record on job creation.

The two-minute ad focuses on GS Technologies, a steel mill in Kansas City, Mo., that was bought by Romney’s private equity firm Bain Capital and went bankrupt soon after.

The ad paints Romney as out of touch with the needs of the local workers and concerned only with Bain’s own profits.

“We view Mitt Romney as a job destroyer,” says one former mill worker in the ad. Another calls Bain “a vampire. They came in and sucked the life out of us.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...=rss_campaigns

However as been noted, Romney left TWO years before the steel plant closed, furthermore if Bain is such a unfair and horrible place, why is one of Obama's top bundlers a Obama bundler who has raised over $100,000 dollars for the President, not to mention unlike Romney, the bundler was there when the plant closed.

The Obama Administration needs to explain these things.

[Dark Sage]

...says the guy who keeps bringing up Solyandra, a scandal (I use the term loosely) that has yet to seem as important to anyone in Washington as even Whitewater was during the Clinton administration.

[Roy Karrde]

...says the guy who keeps bringing up Solyandra, a scandal (I use the term loosely) that has yet to seem as important to anyone in Washington as even Whitewater was during the Clinton administration.

Solyndra was a scandal with Government money that involved Obama Donars and a coverup, mind showing how that is comparable here?

[Dark Sage]

You bring up the bad parts of the President's past, he's going to bring up the bad parts of Romney's past. Turnabout is fair play.

Besides... If Romney is such a good job creator... I seem to remember him saying that he likes to fire people.

And don't try to explain that, and say that there was a benign meaning to it. Saying it in ANY way is bad. NO employer should EVER like to fire people.

[Roy Karrde]

You bring up the bad parts of the President's past, he's going to bring up the bad parts of Romney's past. Turnabout is fair play.

Except Solyndra happened under Obama's watch, this event did not happen under Romney's watch.

Besides... If Romney is such a good job creator... I seem to remember him saying that he likes to fire people.

Yes if a company is failing, it needs to be stripped down and rebuilt from the bottom up. If nothing was wrong with the company then Bain would never have needed to step in and no one would need to be fired. But mind you in turn as the company is being rebuilt more people are highered and it becomes successful again.

And don't try to explain that, and say that there was a benign meaning to it. Saying it in ANY way is bad. NO employer should EVER like to fire people.

Context helps, Romney wasn't speaking as a employer, he was speaking as a consumer.

"“I want individuals to have their own insurance,” Romney said on Monday. “That means the insurance company will have an incentive to keep you healthy. It also means if you don’t like what they do, you can fire them. I like being able to fire people who provide services to me.

“You know, if someone doesn’t give me a good service that I need, I want to say I’m going to go get someone else to provide that service to me.”"

If you are being provided poor service by your insurance company would you keep them around? I sure as hell wouldn't.

[Dark Sage]

I'll repeat it.

Saying it in ANY way is bad. NO employer should EVER like to fire people.

And I'm sticking to it.

[Roy Karrde]

And I'm sticking to it.

So consumers should not be able to enjoy firing people that have provided them poor service? Are you telling me no one has enjoyed blowing up at a restaurant and telling the manager how poorly they were treated? This is not firing people in the context that a person is actually getting fired, this is choosing to take your business elsewhere as a consumer. Was it the best choice of words? No.

[Dark Sage]

Roy, there are times when a company is in trouble, and downsizing becomes necessary. There are times when employees have to be laid off because they can't do their jobs right, or because they're simply incompetant.

But if thew boss actually enjoys doing this, then he's a pretty sorry excuse for a boss. Every employer I know says that they hate having to fire their employees when that becomes necessary.

If someone likes doing it, he symbolizes the whole problem that the OWS people are upset about: Rich people who look down on everyone else.

Was it a bad choice of words? Oh yeah... You bet it was...

[Roy Karrde]

Roy, there are times when a company is in trouble, and downsizing becomes necessary. There are times when employees have to be laid off because they can't do their jobs right, or because they're simply incompetant.

But if thew boss actually enjoys doing this, then he's a pretty sorry excuse for a boss. Every employer I know says that they hate having to fire their employees when that becomes necessary.

If someone likes doing it, he symbolizes the whole problem that the OWS people are upset about: Rich people who look down on everyone else.

Okay do you have dyslexia? Do you honestly have a reading disorder?

He was NOT talking about firing in a employer/employee context. He was talking about a business/consumer context. Read again and this time take it slow and sound out all the words.

"“I want individuals to have their own insurance,” Romney said on Monday. “That means the insurance company will have an incentive to keep you healthy. It also means if you don’t like what they do, you can fire them. I like being able to fire people who provide services to me.

“You know, if someone doesn’t give me a good service that I need, I want to say I’m going to go get someone else to provide that service to me.”"

Edit: Mitt Romney has responded with a new Ad of his own.