2012 U.S. Presidential Election

[Jeff]

I'm just gonna call irony on that one.

Heh, reminds me of another quote:

"I'll have you know that my spelling and grammar is impeccable."
-Serebii Joe

*ahem* and with that, I'll just let this get back on "topic"

[Roy Karrde]

All very big "ifs". Romney's attitude now is quickly reminding me why he didn't make the nomination last time.

Let's just say I'm really looking forward to the debates.

Do you really want to look forward to the debates? Obama wasn't the best last time and that was against a candidate who was struggling heavily to switch from a foreign policy campaign to a economic one. And lets not forget that Joe Biden was beat by Sarah Palin who only had weeks to prepare.

As we have seen before in news interviews, Obama likes to filibuster, mainly because he likes the sound of his own voice. That does not help in a debate format.

[Dark Sage]

Let me spell it out for you, Roy...

Romney didn't win last time, because he was (and still is) a fake, and couldn't hold a candle to McCain. While I didn't vote for McCain and disagreed with him on many issues, I'll admit that, had he been elected, he would have been better at the job than Bush could ever have hoped to be.

Four years later, Romney hasn't really changed much. This time it was just a process of elimination. Except for Huntsman and Johnson, the GOP field had the collective IQ of wood, and were just naturally eliminated as time went on and they ran out of money, something Romney has in abundance. His own party doesn't like him and would love to have another candidate. They just don't have anyone else who can walk and chew gum at the same time.

Oh, and by the way, as far as filibusters go... Give me a break. The GOPs have been doing that FAR more than the Democrats ever since Obama took office. it's the way they used to kill his initiatives before they had the majority in the House, remember?

[Roy Karrde]

Let me spell it out for you, Roy...

Romney didn't win last time, because he was (and still is) a fake, and couldn't hold a candle to McCain. While I didn't vote for McCain and disagreed with him on many issues, I'll admit that, had he been elected, he would have been better at the job than Bush could ever have hoped to be.

So you completely ignore the fact that McCain was able to split Romney's support with Huckabee, and say he wasn't elected because he was a fake, despite the fact that the GOP hated McCain's moderation a hell of a lot more? Nice revisionist history.

Four years later, Romney hasn't really changed much. This time it was just a process of elimination. Except for Huntsman and Johnson, the GOP field had the collective IQ of wood, and were just naturally eliminated as time went on and they ran out of money, something Romney has in abundance. His own party doesn't like him and would love to have another candidate. They just don't have anyone else who can walk and chew gum at the same time.

And you know what the funny part is? Obama has done so many stupid things in the past few months, that it has united the party behind Romney far more if Obama had just sat on his hands. True they may not have wanted him come March of this year, but in the past two months Obama has stuck his foot so far down his mouth in driving the GOP to Romney that the Romney camp really should thank him for the help.

Oh, and by the way, as far as filibusters go... Give me a break. The GOPs have been doing that FAR more than the Democrats ever since Obama took office. it's the way they used to kill his initiatives before they had the majority in the House, remember?

And your point being? Are you saying the Democrats would not try to filibuster something that would destroy the mandate? If so then the Democrats should take the next bill that passes the house that takes down Obamacare, and put it up for a simple up or down vote.

[Dark Sage]

And your point being? Are you saying the Democrats would not try to filibuster something that would destroy the mandate? If so then the Democrats should take the next bill that passes the house that takes down Obamacare, and put it up for a simple up or down vote.

Truthfully, I wish they would. I don't like filibusters. They've lost the impact they used to have. I personally wish that they'd be outlawed.

Edit: Keep in mind, I am not saying that, if they did, there'd be a snowball's chance that the bill would reach the President's desk.

[Roy Karrde]

June Jobs report is out, only 80 thousand jobs added, the unemployment rate stays the same at 8.2% making this quarter the worst in two years. The public sector only lost 4,000 jobs, while the private sector only gained 80 thousand jobs, basically destroying Obama's argument that it is the public sector driving the economy down. Just to keep up with population growth we have to make over 150 thousand jobs a month. And with Obama's immigration policy for Hispanics ( Who have a unemployment number around 11 percent this month ) that number raises to around 200 thousand jobs a month.

[Dark Sage]

So why don't you ask the "job creators" (as the GOP calls them) where the Hell the jobs are?

[Dark Sage]

By the way, Roy, I know you don't like Obama, but do you at least have respect for the dead?

Some people don't. Take a look at what a few Romney supporters had to say about Andy Griffith:

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/07...06796599356739

[Roy Karrde]

So why don't you ask the "job creators" (as the GOP calls them) where the Hell the jobs are?

They would be held up from a variety of forces from regulations and taxes, to things like Obamacare, to and most importantly the European Union teetering on the brink.

By the way, Roy, I know you don't like Obama, but do you at least have respect for the dead?

Some people don't. Take a look at what a few Romney supporters had to say about Andy Griffith:

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/07...06796599356739

I don't like the man, but he is dead so for me I would let it go, however I do not subscribe to the belief that just because he is dead, doesn't mean you must respect him or her.

By the way Obama's response to today's jobs numbers is "It's a step in the right direction" I would have to say that ranks pretty close to "The economy is doing just fine" in utter stupidity.

More people on disability than getting jobs this month?

"It's a step in the right direction"

[Dark Sage]

True, that's what Obama said.

Then his campain team followed up with this, which you apparently didn't hear:

“The President brought us back from the brink of another Depression but he doesn’t believe our work is done -- he’s got a plan to restore the middle class and create a million jobs now that Mitt Romney opposes and Republican leaders have blocked. Mitt Romney says he has a better path, but over the past decade we saw where that took us -- to the slowest job growth since World War II, the collapse of our financial system and the deterioration of the middle class. In fact, independent economists have concluded his plan wouldn’t create one job, wouldn’t reduce the deficit one cent, and could lead to another recession. Mitt Romney’s economic policies failed before and instead of creating jobs, they would weaken the economy and undermine the middle class.”

Here's another recent factoid. Obama just cancelled his vacation on Martha's Vineyard, while Romney is taking a more expensive one than Obama ever has. And don't give me any crap about Obama doing it too much, like the GOP tends to do. His lazy predecessor took more vacations than any other modern President.

[Roy Karrde]

Funny thing about Bush is that he had the communications and work of the White House completely set up at Crawford, and was able to host dignitaries there and the such, thus unlike Obama his vacations were actually work related the great majority of the time.

Also before Obama starts pointing fingers at Romney, he should answer where that 5.6% unemployment he promised us from the Stimulus?



8.2% unemployment instead of 5.6% unemployment.

"It's a step in the right direction"

[Dark Sage]

You're cliaming that Obama doesn't work while on vacation? That's a boldfaced lie. All Presidents work while on vacation.

[Roy Karrde]

You're cliaming that Obama doesn't work while on vacation? That's a boldfaced lie. All Presidents work while on vacation.

It all depends on what is available to them, what is on their itinerary, etc etc. I mean it's pretty much a fact that Obama isn't working while playing his 100+ rounds on the Golf Course.

BTW where is the 5.6% unemployment? If we are going by Obama's economists, who say that Mitt Romney's plan wont work, then shouldn't we also have 5.6% unemployment right now? Where is it?

[Dark Sage]

You know, Roy, Eisenhower played golf so much that comedians have done whole routines on that subject, but it didn't affect his job all-too much, you know?

[Roy Karrde]

You know, Roy, Eisenhower played golf so much that comedians have done whole routines on that subject, but it didn't affect his job all-too much, you know?

It's all about perceptions, Bush stopped golfing when the war started because he did not want to look like he was relaxing and having fun while Americans die. Obama on the other hand seems to not only have a problem with that perception, but also while American's are suffering.

[Gavin Luper]

This thread reminds me of the Springfield tyre fire.

[ChobiChibi]

And here I was thinking, "oh, Gavin posted in the election thread and I didn't read it. I wonder what insights he's provided us with today."

And then there was that post right above this one

[Blademaster]

This thread reminds me of the Springfield tyre fire.

It's big, ultimately pointless, and contains more "legal" flaming and pollution than anywhere else in the free world?

[mattbcl]

It's big, ultimately pointless, and contains more "legal" flaming and pollution than anywhere else in the free world?

We're saying TPM is the home of something that grandiose?

I didn't know Congress visited!

[Gavin Luper]

And here I was thinking, "oh, Gavin posted in the election thread and I didn't read it. I wonder what insights he's provided us with today."

And then there was that post right above this one

Haha, profound, right?

We're saying TPM is the home of something that grandiose?

I didn't know Congress visited!

It's big, ultimately pointless, and contains more "legal" flaming and pollution than anywhere else in the free world?

I didn't even think of all that. I just meant it's been going forever, and will probably never end. I can see the election coming and going and it having absolutely no impact on this discussion.

[Dark Sage]

Then lock it, already. Lock the damn thread.

I'm sick of it.

[Heald]

You don't have to post here, it is just you post things that don't stand up to the facts and then get upset when you are exposed on it.

Don't get me wrong, you're not the only one who is posting things that aren't actually backed up by facts but you seem to be the one getting the most upset over it. I'm not locking a thread just because you lack basic skills in debate and argument.

[Roy Karrde]

Dude I just do this for fun, a reliever, kind of a way to relax and have fun. I think that should be the view of everyone in this thread.

[Gavin Luper]

I was just making a comment, dudes. Not saying it needs to stop. Just that it's one of longest debates I've seen in misc in a long time.

[RedStarWarrior]

Obama is going to be reelected because down with whitey.

I don't care about laws, though the majority of praise and blame should go to Congress, not the President.

[Dark Sage]

In lighter news...

The Sarasota GOP will name Donald Trump "Statesman of the Year" a day before and a stone's throw away from the Republican National Convention in Tampa.

According to Sarasota GOP chairman Joe Gruters, Trump is a "wise, skillful and respectful political leader," pointing a poll that put Trump in a dead heat in a hypothetical matchup with Mr. Obama. (Here's the poll. Note that it's over a year old, and includes many names that dropped out months ago: http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...east-poll.html)

I at first thought this was a joke. Then I found out that they were serious. And I thought that the Sarasota GOP had lost their minds.

[Dark Sage]

In more news...

Romney made a speech in front of the NAACP Conference today...

His vow to repeal Obamacare went over very badly with them. It makes me wonder just what in the world he was thinking.

[Roy Karrde]

What he was thinking? Instant Credibility with the Right and Center.

The Center will be pleased to see that Romney went to the convention at all, in the face of overt hostility, plus the NAACP audience comes across as a bit immature. The Right has doubted Romney’s commitment to repealing ObamaCare at times, but this shows that Romney is willing to repeat that pledge anywhere, even when it’s guaranteed to turn the audience against him.

Romney went into the lion's den today, knowing it will be a hostile audience and acted Presidential by doing it. When will Obama stand infront of a unfriendly audience?

[Dark Sage]

Strange, Roy, when a candidate - who will go nameless - spoke out against Social Security in a speech he made in a nursing home, people called him an idiot.

Basically, that's the same thing that Romney did. He pushed an idea that his audience was clearly opposed to.

So all of a sudden he's smart, and the first guy who made this mistake is an idiot?

[Roy Karrde]

Strange, Roy, when a candidate - who will go nameless - spoke out against Social Security in a speech he made in a nursing home, people called him an idiot.

Basically, that's the same thing that Romney did. He pushed an idea that his audience was clearly opposed to.

So all of a sudden he's smart, and the first guy who made this mistake is an idiot?

What I am saying is that it gives him credibility, especially in the face of a hostile and immature crowd to go out there and speak the truth. He could easily have skipped over Obamacare, but then you would have the left calling him out for that. Instead he spoke the truth, and that gives him credibility as a President, something any candidate needs.

May I ask when President Obama plans to speak at say the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, or say Focus on the Family, or maybe Americans for Prosperity?

[Dark Sage]

May I ask when President Obama plans to speak at say the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, or say Focus on the Family, or maybe Americans for Prosperity?

I have no idea, he doesn't share his schedule with people like me.

If you were President, would you honestly share yours?

Dumb question there, Roy.

Edit: By the way, if he had skipped Obamacare, as you say, I likely would never have mentioned the speech to the NAACP at all. I would have found it unremarkable, and would have thought it unworthy of mentioning.

Like most of his speeches.

[Roy Karrde]

I have no idea, he doesn't share his schedule with people like me.

If you were President, would you honestly share yours?

Dumb question there, Roy.

Just a question, if Romney can go to a hostile crowd and speak the truth of his plans, why can't Obama? You would expect a President to be willing to lead from wherever, not just from where he is comfortable.

Edit: By the way, if he had skipped Obamacare, as you say, I likely would never have mentioned the speech to the NAACP at all. I would have found it unremarkable, and would have thought it unworthy of mentioning.

Like most of his speeches.

YOU may have, but Daily Kos, and the rest of the left probably would not have.

By the way, Romney got a large amount of applause for being willing to defend Traditional Marriage, and for promoting Charter Schools, two things Obama is against.

It is a shame about Charter Schools too, inner city kids deserve a President that actually give a damn about them.

[Dark Sage]

Romney's speeches are the same thing every time.

They can basically be summed up with, "I oppose everything that Obama supports". His whole campaign can be based on the fact that he isn't Obama. In a lot of ways, he reminds me of Bob Dole, just not as smart.

Even Boehner has admitted that Romney is not going to get many people to like him, and that everyone who votes in Novemeber will either be voting for Obama or against Obama when they make their decisions.

And that's not going to grant Romney a victory. To win the Presidency, you need an identity of your own.

[Roy Karrde]

Romney's speeches are the same thing every time.

They can basically be summed up with, "I oppose everything that Obama supports". His whole campaign can be based on the fact that he isn't Obama. In a lot of ways, he reminds me of Bob Dole, just not as smart.

Even Boehner has admitted that Romney is not going to get many people to like him, and that everyone who votes in Novemeber will either be voting for Obama or against Obama when they make their decisions.

And that's not going to grant Romney a victory. To win the Presidency, you need an identity of your own.

This from a guy who supports a candidate who in 2008, his main themes were "Hope" and "Change". Who campaigned on not being George W Bush. Who is famously quoted in his book in saying "I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views."

[Dark Sage]

If you think I'm actually going to click on that sound effect link, you're even stupider than I originally thought.

I don't know why I even come here. I only get insulted, time and again.

[Dark Sage]

By the way, the GOP-controlled House just voted to repeal the Affordable Health Care Act - for the 33rd time, for pete's sake. It will no doubt fail in the Senate, just like the previous 32 times.

“Anyone who opposes the repeal of this bill is supporting the biggest tax on the middle class in history."

Strange, it seems that this threat didn't cause as many supporters of the bill to change sides as they had hoped, because only five Democrats sided with them.

The GOP is wasting time and money, and looking like utter fools in their repeated attempt to pass a bill that they know will not succeed, and it's making them look bad. The President's approval rating isn't the best, but theirs is in the toilet due to the fact that they simply won't do their jobs.

If I were in charge, I would give the voters the right to decide their salaries...

Sadly, I am not...

Thirty-three times... It boggles the mind...

[The_Missing_Link]

If you think I'm actually going to click on that sound effect link, you're even stupider than I originally thought.

I don't know why I even come here. I only get insulted, time and again.

Because you don't want Roy to have the last word

This is a stupid thread that has degraded into Dark Sage and Roy Karrde bickering with no end in sight. This isn't productive, it's just a game of one upmanship between two people whose opinions are clearly not going to change

[Gavin Luper]

Because you don't want Roy to have the last word

This is a stupid thread that has degraded into Dark Sage and Roy Karrde bickering with no end in sight. This isn't productive, it's just a game of one upmanship between two people whose opinions are clearly not going to change

[mattbcl]

After reading bits and pieces of this thread, as well as any number of op-eds that one could find on either side of the aisle, I've come to the conclusion that any modern American president must have done this at least once in the Oval Office.



If you didn't even so much as crack a smile after seeing that, I really honestly believe you need to lighten up. And no, I'm not "just sayin'."

[Bear]

If I had a dollar for every strawman put forth in this topic, I'd have enough money to run for President...