Same-Sex Marriage

[123LTJ]

Originally posted by KaptainSarcasm
Umm, hi!

Being gay certainly isn't a choice, but if I had a choice between being gay and being straight, I'd stick with being gay. Even with the ridicule and all that. I refuse to let a couple of assholes throw me off of who I am, if they don't like it, they can see who's laughing when I get more women than them.

I just wanted to point that out so that people don't start to think of being gay as a curse or a desease or something. It's not. It's not a terrible thing to be gay, not by a long shot.

I did not in any way mean that nobody wants to be gay. I meant that most people, without being either, would choose to be straight, just to avoid the negative aspects of being gay. I really can't see any reason, besides the preferance nobody can really control, why anybody would choose a route that will leave you ostracized by some people. I personally, given the two routes, would rather be straight, but the choice isn't ours to make. I'm sorry if what I said sounded insulting or anything. I hope I made myself clear.

[Almond]

As a bisexual, I believe 100% that same-sex marriage should be just as legal as opposite-sex marriage. (I also think polygamy should be legal, but eh...)

In one nice compact guide, I have assembled the most common arguments against same-sex marriage, free of gakispeak, and my refutations thereof.

The Bible says it's wrong.

Your point being...? Though the majority of Americans are Christian, this nation was not founded as a Christian nation. I refer you to my attachment.

Well yeah, but still: It's infringing on my religion if you allow two men to marry!

How so? No one's forcing you to marry someone of the same sex. And just fyi, there are some religions, such as Buddhism, that would prefer for same-sex marriage to be legal. Wouldn't it be infringing on their rights to not make it legal?

It's disgusting.

Says who? You? Just because you think having sex with someone of the same gender is gross, doesn't mean everyone thinks that way. To gay people, heterosexuality is disgusting. But they don't try to make that illegal. (Unless they're some idiotic radical fringe group.)

Marriage is for reproduction only!

So then I guess we should stop allowing sterile people to marry, huh? In fact, let's make everyone sign a paper when they get married, swearing that they'll have children.

Please.

In fact, some people get married because they are in love, and not for the sole purpose of having children. Besides, gay couples can adopt children (which in my opinion is a more humane option than bringing another soul into this pathetic world).

Allowing same-sex marriages will destroy marriage!

Um... how does letting people get married, destroy marriage? It's not like opposite-sex marriage will become illegal or anything. In fact, if you aren't gay, it doesn't affect you.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Deck Knight]

Originally posted by Hexae
Apart from concurring with Angel Blossom, I have something to add.



According to what, may I ask? It is a proven fact that many animals (mostly monkeys) show forms of homosexuality towards those of the same sex. Female Bonobos (a species of monkey) rub their clitorises together, and some rams and cattle will mount those of the same gender when they are in heat. Some species of birds will affectionately nuzzle and caress those of the same gender. Is this a crime? Is this disgusting? Who is to judge the very actions of the animal kingdom? We are a part of it too, you know.

Relating to the title, I see no reason why it shouldn't be legal for same-sex marriages to occur.

Oh look, I'm going back to religion, where marraige is ACTUALLY applicable, since in order to be MARRIED, you must have a RELIGION of sorts, or you can be married by government... Actually, thats the answer right there.

I'm against CATHOLIC Same Sex Marraiges, if you're too dumb to listen and abide your teachings, your no better off than those clitmonkeys(Bonobos). If your religion doesn't clearly state same sex MARRAIGE is against the law, then its not a problem.

As for gays themselves, only problem I have with them is if they slap my *** or hit on me or make catcalls or something along those lines(ladies, feel free to do any of the above, LOL). In short, they actually have to DO something to me first.

My position is simply this: Whether or not you are gay or straight. You can love whoever you wish. As long as your religion doesn't have any qualms with pre-marital sex, you can have sex with whomever you wish without being married. Love and Sex are minor, they mean little in the long run. You can Love and have Sex with hundreds of people(and be considered a whore, too). You can only get MARRIED to one. Which makes Marraige sacred, its a bonding of two people for the procreation of more people(at least in the Catholic Church, anyway). If you want to get married, just don't make it by the Catholic Church, go to Vegas and get married by that minister who works for the Government and not the God.

My Religion states there are to be no same sex marraiges, its just what it says, its written law, enforced for thousands of years. However, if your religion is different, then my religion has no impact on you, and therefore, do whatever you wish.

[Deck Knight]

Originally posted by Almond

It's disgusting.

Says who? You? Just because you think having sex with someone of the same gender is gross, doesn't mean everyone thinks that way. To gay people, heterosexuality is disgusting. But they don't try to make that illegal. (Unless they're some idiotic radical fringe group.)

My answer to that: Even girls have asses. Just do her up the butt if you don't like her particular reproductive organ. Wow, that blows that argument out the window, doesn't it. Of course, if you like sucking something, then thats a completely different story... but... eventually man will become so horny and pro-gay rights there will be dick flavored lollipops with hard centers for the "suck on the go".

Oh look... more witty satire O_o.

[Almond]

Originally posted by Deck Knight
My answer to that: Even girls have asses. Just do her up the butt if you don't like her particular reproductive organ. Wow, that blows that argument out the window, doesn't it. Of course, if you like sucking something, then thats a completely different story... but... eventually man will become so horny and pro-gay rights there will be dick flavored lollipops with hard centers for the "suck on the go".

Oh look... more witty satire O_o.

Eventually man will become so pro-black rights there will be n***er flavoured lollipops.

Do you see how retarded that statement was?

You miss the fact that gay people DO NOT FALL IN LOVE with the opposite sex, so there would be no reason to screw a girl up the ***.

[jet1213]

responding to the above lollipop statement: what


not to change the subject of this topic, but it seems like the vast majority of conflicts between people boil down to religious disputes. so uh.. stop being religious.

[Deck Knight]

Originally posted by Almond
Eventually man will become so pro-black rights there will be n***er flavoured lollipops.

Do you see how retarded that statement was?

You miss the fact that gay people DO NOT FALL IN LOVE with the opposite sex, so there would be no reason to screw a girl up the ***.

People don't Fall in love with hookers either, they just screw them and go.

[Almond]

That's an ignorant and homophobic statement. You assume that all homosexuals are only in it for the sex and never fall in love.

[Deck Knight]

Originally posted by Almond
That's an ignorant and homophobic statement. You assume that all homosexuals are only in it for the sex and never fall in love.

No, what I said was simply, you don't need to neccesarily love someone to have sex with them. If a gay guy really wanted some ***, he might even resort to a woman, just because he couldn't find any gay men in the area, he wouldn't ENJOY it as much as he normally would, but he'd still get the sex he wanted.

Gays ARE like regular people. And indeed, some regular people just go around screwing hookers all their lives. Unless, of course, you are telling me that NO gay person would EVER just roam the streets looking for hookers, a downright lie, I might add.

Gays are entitled to every right, except CATHOLIC marraige. Marraige is not just Marraige, nor is Marraige just tax exemption, When its Catholic Marraige, you follow the rulebook(the Bible) However, if you don't care about/aren't required to follow the Bible, then do whatever just don't expect a Catholic Preist to marry you. As for the Government FORCING the Catholic Church to approve of Same-Sedx Marraiges, they shouldn't. Seperation of Church and State, the Church can't FORCE the government to abide by their laws, just as the government can't FORCE the Church to do anything changing their laws.

My suggestion if you are Catholic and Gay, and want a Marraige: Either convert to your partners religion, or get married by some federal yesminister in Vegas.

I have no problems with Gays who don't directly hit on me in some form. They can breath the same air, go to the same bathroom(I'll pray they aren't staring at me while I'm taking a leak), see the same movies, live life to the fullest, all this persecution crap is BS, I draw the line at Catholic Marraige, but other religions have marraige too, and they don't follow the same laws we do. Just so long as Gays know I'm not interested in any form of love they may have for me, I'm perfectl;y alright with them having the same insurance rates and everything else, they're all people.

[The Rusted One]

Originally posted by Deck Knight
Its funny, 50 years ago if you said you wanted to marry another person of the same gender, your mother would have washed your mouth out with soap and sent you to a nun.

Why is that funny? I don't find it so amusing. Perhaps you mean that it's funny how we think differently about people who are gay nowadays; but once again, why is this funny?

I have nothing against homosexual people loving each other, its their choice. But imagine this scenario:

Two gay guys are getting married, and a little boy wearing a suit sees a lot of little girls wearing white dresses. Now, one of the gay guys is also wearing a dress.

"Mommy, why is that man wearing a dress?"

"Oh Billy, don't worry about it"

"How come he gets a dress and I don't?"

"Don't be stupid Billy, boys don't wear dresses"

"But that man is..."

And so on.

Now think of what a very strange scene that would be for a 5 year old. Dare I say his need to want to fit in with all those girls in dresses might make him run around in one later, and eventually become gay?

Since when did a gay marriage ever have to involve one of the partners wearing a dress? Both are men - they'd probably opt for both of them wearing suits.
Also - how does wearing a dress make someone gay? Does a girl who wears pants end up a lesbian? No. No offence, but you are the exact reflection of the ignorance and prejudice in today's society.

I realise that is all specualtory, but I beleive one's experiences make them gay, not some gene. Geneticists have been around for years they would have discovered a pattern by now. Now, I'll shut up when I'm older and I go to a clinic and hear a doctor say:

"You're boy has the gay gene, he is doomed never to have children outside of adoption from couples without the gay gene, congratulations, your family name ends now."

"Don't worry Maria, we can keep trying"

"This is all your fault, David! Your stupid Father had to have the gay gene, didn't he? And he had you before he found out! I'm divorcing for someone who won't give me gay gene children!"

Untill I hear that or similar, I won't buy into "I was born that way". This is like saying "I was born afraid of water" When you were almost drowned at 3-5.

Why would they have discovered a pattern by now? Only recently has the human genome been totally mapped; there is still much investigation on how separate genes work, and how they work together.
And since when was being gay like having a phobia of water? You go through a traumatic experience and learn to be scared of water; many gay people grow up exactly as straight people would, without fear of women, or of men if they're lesbian, and yet are gay in later life. Being gay isn't a phobia of being straight; it's loving another person of the same gender.

Now I realise all my examples are full of witty satire, but thats just the way I am.

Not really. But, if you believe your posts to be so satirical, and that's just the way you are - can I ask if you went through some kind of traumatic experience in concern with being serious, and so now have a phobia of solemnity that leads you to be, as you say, "witty"?

On topic...

Marraige has been around since St. Peter founded the Church almost 2000 years ago. It was designed SPECIFICALLY for man and woman, and it is defined "FOR THE PROCREATION OF CHILDREN"... I repeat.... "FOR THE PROCREATION OF CHILDREN" Not the adoption of children, not the confusing of children, not for wild gay sex and tax reasons, nbut for the PROCREATION of children". Gays cannot Procreate children amonst themselves, therefore, they cannot meet that requirement of marraige.

Nor, then, can infertile people. Or someone with a genetic condition that means that they can't have children who won't have the disease themselves. Or those with a disability that has paralysed them for life.
Marriage, at first, wasn't for the procreation of children - sex has that role. Marriage was a cultural institution before it became the norm of Western society - nowadays it's merely a holdover of yesteryear. Are you going to say, now, that gay people shouldn't have sex because sex is for procreation?
And I'm sure that implying the homosexual sex is basically just an unfettered orgy isn't quite what it's like - but rather, another example of your astounding ignorance about anything to do with the subject based on your religious views.

Oh, and btw. I'm a little catholic boy, who has read the Bible sparingly, all this came from common sense and knowledge that is explicitly stated. You can ask any Catholic Priest, Marraige is for the PROCREATION of children.

Explicitly stated...by who? Please, if you have the evidence, from the person who instituted the custom of marriage, and can explain how this person has the authority to say "this is how it is, this is how it shall forever be", provide it.

What a lot of people seem not to be able to understand is that being homosexual isn't about having sex with someone of the same gender - it's being attracted to, and falling in love, with someone of the same gender. Think about that for a minute - why is it so bad that a man should fall in love with a man? Sex is a part of almost every relationship based on love; but it isn't the basis. It's something that comes after, not the initial act (most of the time) - so why do people always think "gay/lesbian = sex between two men/women"? It's quite sickening to think that there are people out there who think that it is just about sex (Decknight seems to argue that, amongst other things, though not to the same degree as those who follow; Vega said it, in so many words; and Crazy isn't much better); in fact, after finding out the attitudes of so many people to this issue, I've begun to think less highly of them than I had before (here, I mostly refer to Vega. Before, I thought he was a pretty decent guy; however, the ignorance, hatred, and lack of willingness to actually sit back and think about what really lies at the heart of this issue, and how people directly involved are just as human as people who aren't [and lack of willingness to change his views], has led me to lose a lot of the respect I once had for him.)

[Ninetales3001]

Originally posted by Deck Knight

Two gay guys are getting married, and a little boy wearing a suit sees a lot of little girls wearing white dresses. Now, one of the gay guys is also wearing a dress.

"Mommy, why is that man wearing a dress?"

"Oh Billy, don't worry about it"

"How come he gets a dress and I don't?"

"Don't be stupid Billy, boys don't wear dresses"

"But that man is..."

And so on.

Now, that's just pathetic. *hates stereotypes* Not all gay people are crossdressers. Hell, 50% and if not more of crossdressers are straight. Just because a gay couple is getting married, it doesn't mean one has to wear a wedding dress.

Also, if a parent is too pathetic to educate their children on issues in this world like homosexuality, crossdressing and whatnot, why would they bring them to a homosexual wedding?

Originally posted by Vega
ok, this shouldnt be taken as an attempt at flaming or such, just an opinion.

i think homosexuality in general is disgusting, sick, and inhuman. like it or not, its the truth. a man/woman was never meant to fall in love/have sex with a person of the same sex, its just wrong.

it matters not whether or not you believe in any religion, its just wrong, in any way you look at it. and accepting it is also wrong. i cant see anyway to succesfully deal with it, but until then i'll just have to live around gay ppl. i havent met any gay ppl myself, and i dont know how i would act around them, but it definitely wouldnt be in a nice and civil way, since i despise the very thought of homosexuality.

as much as this sounds "20th Century", its just how i would act.

anyhow, on topic, i dont think same sex marriages should be legalised.

now you can proceed to flame me.

gday mortals!

I respect your views and opinions on homosexuality, but feel disgusted by the part I've underlined. It's people like you that's landed several of my gay friends in hospital. It's people like you who've instilled fear in me, and in many of my gay friends, to ride our local transit system, in fear that people like you will bash us. I'm sorry, but I'm _so_ glad I don't have your morals.

[The Muffin Man]

Originally posted by Ninetales3001
Now, that's just pathetic. *hates stereotypes* Not all gay people are crossdressers.

~*coughs*Ummm, Nine. That's not exactly an argument YOU should be making, no matter how true.


I respect your views and opinions on homosexuality, but feel disgusted by the part I've underlined. It's people like you that's landed several of my gay friends in hospital. It's people like you who've instilled fear in me, and in many of my gay friends, to ride our local transit system, in fear that people like you will bash us. I'm sorry, but I'm _so_ glad I don't have your morals.

To be fair, I feel that way about Vega in general. But don't you mean LACK of morals?

[The Muffin Man]

Sorry to double-post but this doesn't fit into the last one:

Looking over the last couple of pages, 2 things may be said: Either homosexuality is a human only sin because we've "turned out backs on God", or that homosexuality is natural.

The first statement will lead to people claiming it's true. Congradulations, you agreed with Evolution, that monkies became humans over millions of years. How? Because if only humans can be gay, that means monkies were our earlier stages, as monkeys DEFINETLY show signs of homosexuality.

The bird-nuzzling doesn't count. That's just cute.
*insert AWWWWWW here*

The second leads to homosexuality NOT being a sin, as it is naturally occuring. Murder doesn't happen naturally. Most of the sins are REALLY BAD choices. Not naturally occuring.

Good game, Religion. I win.

[Misty]

Come here TMM, I wish to give you a great deal of manbabies :*

[en0miz]

I have no problem with gay people being married.This has been posted many times in this topic but... they are two people in love, etc. One thing I don't get is why Christains look down on homosexuality so much... who are we to judge (Yeah, I'm Christian)? I dunno', I just find the more "christian" thing to do would be to accept people and not disaprove of them because of their perference (or whatever the case may be).

[Crazy]

Gah I hate to bring this up but girls and boys have uummm certain reproductive organs, which means that we are suppose to like the opposite gender.But that doesn't make it wrong to like the same gender,it just seems odd but that doesn't give people the right to insult and make fun of gays.

[Razola]

Answer hazy...try again later...

[123LTJ]

Originally posted by Crazy
Gah I hate to bring this up but girls and boys have uummm certain reproductive organs, which means that we are suppose to like the opposite gender.

I can see why you were hesitent to bring up such a controvercial statement.



There are a few things that obviously weren't cleared up the last couple of times they were mentioned, so here goes:

1) Nobody in this thread is arguing that the Catholic Church or any other religion should be forced to allow gay marraiges. The arguement is that the gov't should be forced to allow marraiges.

2) Just because somebody is homosexual, that is not all that they are; it is a PART of who they are, and an insignificant part at that. If I asked you to describe yourself, would the first word that pops into your head be "straight" or "gay"? No, it would be funny, or fun, or loud, or (in the case of a few people in this thread) ignorant. See? Being gay doesn't change the person they are, the same way that being black/white/hispanic/latin doesn't, nor does being a man/woman.

[Entropy]

Originally posted by Angel Blossom
I'm sorry, Vega, but what you said is the most ignorant opinion I have heard so far. This really pisses me off. They're PEOPLE. Just because they're not straight, it doesn't make them monsters, or sick, or disgusting.

Let's say your best friend told you one day, that he/she is homosexual. What are you going to do? Beat him/her to death? Will you treat your best friend like garbage for the rest of your life?

And by the way, I know a lot of men who are gay. Besides the fact that they are attracted to their own gender, they're just like everyone else. Bah, this isn't even worth it. Your ignorance just pisses me off.. -_-

Good post, Angel Blossom. I believe we should all ignore this poster. Given his carefree attitude at this issue, he should be ignored at all costs.

[Bleeding Blue]

Originally posted by Vega
ok, this shouldnt be taken as an attempt at flaming or such, just an opinion.

i think homosexuality in general is disgusting, sick, and inhuman. like it or not, its the truth. a man/woman was never meant to fall in love/have sex with a person of the same sex, its just wrong.

it matters not whether or not you believe in any religion, its just wrong, in any way you look at it. and accepting it is also wrong. i cant see anyway to succesfully deal with it, but until then i'll just have to live around gay ppl. i havent met any gay ppl myself, and i dont know how i would act around them, but it definitely wouldnt be in a nice and civil way, since i despise the very thought of homosexuality.

as much as this sounds "20th Century", its just how i would act.

anyhow, on topic, i dont think same sex marriages should be legalised.

now you can proceed to flame me.

gday mortals!

See I dont think he should get flamed. I agree with him that I believe its totally wrong. That's my oppinion. I think life was made a certain way and that wasnt part of it. Im not religous. I dont go to church. I didnt read anything saying it was a "sin." Its sort of like stick a fork in a toaster.

And regarding to another post about your best friend being gay, I wouldnt be his friend. The very thought actually make me sick. I dont know anyone that is gay and Im glad to say that

It shouldnt be legalized and thats that. No one should be flamed for how they think. its how the gay people think when they make their desicion for their sexuallity. Still I think its wrong.

[Moonlight Espeon]

I don't understand what's wrong with it.....
They are humans, as all of us. They are exactly the same as us, but might have different opinions. Would you insult a person if they said they liked something when you didn't? NO. It's the exact same thing with gays. It doesn't matter what they like, what they don't like, what they prefer. If you like pasta, and someone else hates it, would you then hate the other person just for having a different opinion than you? I certainly hope you wouldn't. If that's the way they want to live their life, then it's none of our buisness. So I vote yes, it should be legal, because it DOESN'T REALLY MATTER.

[Angel Blossom]

Originally posted by Bleeding Blue
And regarding to another post about your best friend being gay, I wouldnt be his friend. The very thought actually make me sick. I dont know anyone that is gay and Im glad to say that

Okay, I wouldn't have said anything to you if you didn't say that.

So, if your best friend, who meant everything in the world to you, admitted he/she was homosexual, you would completely change your mind about him/her and hate your BEST FRIEND for the rest of your life? If that's true, it proves that you're not a true friend to anyone. Even if they don't like the opposite gender, it doesn't make them bad people. They're just like everyone else. They're people with feelings, who deserve the right to get married if they want to. Honestly, being happy to not know anyone who's homosexual is just like being happy to not know anyone who's Black, or Hispanic, or Asian. I'm not saying that homosexuality is like being Black, Hispanic, or Asian. I'm saying that it's prejudice and it's ignorant to say such things, "being happy" not to know homosexuals.. idiotic.

I'm sorry, but I had to say something about that too.
Heh, I probably shouldn't bother getting upset over these stupid remarks, anyway.

[Moonlight Espeon]

Hmm.... I just thought of something.
If you grow up and have kids when you hate gays for what they are, would you tell your kids the Gay Monster was going to get them in their sleep instead of the Sandman? If you consider that at ALL, you are truly disgusting and have a twisted mind. There is nothing wrong with gay people, I repeat. For example (this is a connection onto Angel Blossom's question about your best friend), if your best friend was the same gender as you, and one day they admitted that they were gay and that they loved you, would you hate them and never talk to them again, even when you were close friends with them?

[Mister Myuu]

I've noticed a dramatic increase in the discussion of this topic and others regarding homosexuality as of late. Not too long ago all people could talk about was the ill-waged War on Iraq. Such a curious thing how the interests of the fickle-minded race homo-sapien change so fast.

Anyways, my opinion on same sex marriges would be that I believe everyone has a right to proclaim their love for someone (though I still am undecided on whether love actually exists anymore) regardless of sex (or skin color for that matter). No one mortal has the right to choose what is right and wrong or who is good and evil. Besides, there is a little good and evil in everyone and everything. No one or nothing is pure and/or perfect as total purity and complete perfection is non-existant save for the lord himself. But I digress.

In the log run, it is my belief that we should all strive to get along and look passed such trivial matters as we all are entitled to live our life our own way (within reason). Same sex marriges are not sinful, I don't think. Lets just let people slip a gold band on anothers finger in a show of love and not squabble over it as it isn't that big a deal.

[The Rusted One]

Bleeding Blue - how is homosexuality like sticking a fork into a toaster?

You obviously don't understand that, while you declare homosexuality as unnatural, it is in fact one of the many natural things Homo sapiens, as a species, is capable of. People don't choose to be gay; they just are. Obviously, then, it is something that they are naturally - making it natural for them, meaning it is a natural aspect of our species (even if it is represented in a minority).

A question for anyone who is homophobic - would you have a problem if these exact same people you have such a hatred and sense of disgust for were, say, genderless? Say it's possible for someone to possess a physical body with no sex; if two such people met, and fell in love, would there be a problem? Or if one of these people was a woman, and one a man - but they were still the exact same people mentally?

You're being blinded by your lack of understanding that people aren't defined by their possession of either an XX pair or an XY pair - they are defined by who they are mentally. Why is it that you let the physical sex of someone decide whether they can or cannot fall in love with someone? A person is a person, and two people in love are two people in love; why is it that physical gender matters? Like I said, the sex of one's body doesn't determine who they are, or who they aren't, and certainly doesn't decide who they can or can't fall in love with. Sure, it has some role to play - but when it comes down to it, being gay is part of, though a minority within, the natural behaviour of our species - and, regardless of physical gender, a person is going to fall in love with whomever they will; man with man, woman with woman, man with woman. Each is as natural as the other in terms of what our species is capable of.

Perhaps something to consider, Bleeding Blue and Vega, is that if one group of people, according to you, should not naturally be able to express who they are without fear of discrimination and other attitudes you have presented here, then you should also be restricted in what you are able to express. You, in that case, should not be allowed to come onto these boards and throw around such homophobic messages as you have; the only thing is, you're allowed to do that. You're allowed to express your opinions, your views, and be as free as you want, both here and in your lives outside these boards; why not those amongst the human population who are gay or lesbian? You deny those who you despise so much their basic rights and wants, and yet excercise yours in expressing this very thing. If you are going to be so prejudiced and homophobic, and proclaim it as wrong and bad, and something not to be accepted, then perhaps we should proclaim your right to your opinion as wrong and bad, and something not to be accepted.

[Musourenka]

I have one question to ask?

What makes homosexuality evil? Because its not natural? I don't see homosexuality harming those not involved, and assuming its consentual, I don't have a problem with it (and marriage is consentual, even homosexual marriage). Prove to me that homosexuality harms other people, and then perhaps you can convince me that it is evil.

[Mister Myuu]

Originally posted by The Rusted One
Perhaps something to consider, Bleeding Blue and Vega, is that if one group of people, according to you, should not naturally be able to express who they are without fear of discrimination and other attitudes you have presented here, then you should also be restricted in what you are able to express. You, in that case, should not be allowed to come onto these boards and throw around such homophobic messages as you have; the only thing is, you're allowed to do that. You're allowed to express your opinions, your views, and be as free as you want, both here and in your lives outside these boards; why not those amongst the human population who are gay or lesbian? You deny those who you despise so much their basic rights and wants, and yet excercise yours in expressing this very thing. If you are going to be so prejudiced and homophobic, and proclaim it as wrong and bad, and something not to be accepted, then perhaps we should proclaim your right to your opinion as wrong and bad, and something not to be accepted.

Prejudice people are the most hypocritical folk you can find. You should've already known that, Rusted One. They let their fear of the things they can't understand cloud their logic, making them unable to practice what they preach, so to speak.


As for Bleeding Heart and Vega.. well, as always when I come across someone with a rotting heart full of hatred, I am disappointed that you two feel someone must be judged by something as trivial as sexual preference. We were not put on this Earth to judge eachother but put here in order to live in harmony, regardless of differences. Now, saying you've never met a homosexual yet you still despise them disappoints me even more. How can you judge a whole group without ever meeting a single one. To me, it sounds like someone has manipulated the both of you into believing their beliefs (most likely parents).

Tell you what, here's an "assaignment" for the both of you. I want you to go out and meet someone who is homosexual and have a civilized conversation with them. I want you to determine if being gay makes someone less human, like it seems you believe. After looking at them in an unprejudiced, unbiased light, I want to to come back to this thread and attempt to tell me you think homosexuals are beneath you simply because of their choice of lifestyle. Unless you don't do this with an open mind, I doubt you'll be anti-gay anymore.

[Ninetales3001]

Originally posted by Bleeding Blue

And regarding to another post about your best friend being gay, I wouldnt be his friend. The very thought actually make me sick. I dont know anyone that is gay and Im glad to say that

I'm gay with a really close straight best friend. I told him what you said and he couldn't stop laughing at that. It's really sad that you think that way, and I don't mean upset sad.

BTW, thanks to you my best friend and I now have an inside joke about sticking forks in toasters. XD

[~Skye~Luchador]

If people were getting banned for dissing on religion then I think we must ban those who diss on homosexuality.

[123LTJ]

OK, this is sad:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...atoday/5361164

I'll try and summerize. Basically, since the Supreme Court started favoring gay rights, support for gay rights has dropped something like 15%!

Ugh. Just thought I'd bring this up.

[kainashi]

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/...age/index.html

i find that to be bull****. another reason not to vote for him in 2004.

[Musourenka]

Bush is, once again, on the wrong side of the issue. Whether or not marriage is only between a man or a woman is not for the government to decide -- let the priests do that. This law should be taken out of the books.

[Blink4JC]

Homosexuality is wrong. Yes, I, myself, was gay, but I BECAME UNGAY! I'm currently straight, beleive it or not. I almost made myself become straight because of my religion and family and my teachings. The Bible is here to TEACH us. Those who keep saying to think for yourself--how do you learn in school? Reading and being taught to by those things that are meant to instruct, such as the Bible. Someone said that they are Christian and then Bible allows gay marriages, well then read Leviticus 18:22 AND Romans 1:26-27. It says that homosexuality is wrong. Now I'm not saying it's a choice, I once was gay and didn't chose that way, I see it more of a curable disorder. People don't choose to be autistic, either, or ADD, or Fugue disorders, but some mental disorders, such as MPD and OCD can be cured. Homosexuality and Bisexuality SHOULD be qualified as Sexuality Disorders. It's not a choice, but it is curable. The Bible clearly states that it's wrong more than once. Most of you heathens are going to hell because you think you're too smart to be taught, you must make your own wrong conclusions instead of the definite ones set out by the Bible. I don't care if I'm terribly flamed by this or not cuz I rarely post, but homosexuality is wrong and a bunch of people suffering from it can't change that. Marraige was meant for procreation, and males cannot procreate and neither can women. MARRIAGE AND SEX WERE MEANT FOR PROCREATION. Bottom Line: Homosexual Marriages = Wrong!

[Musourenka]

Whether homosexuality (and thus, homosexual marriages) are wrong or not, the government does not (and should not) have the power to enfore morality on people.

[The Rusted One]

I'm not going to tell you about homosexuality; obviously, if you're not lying to make a point, you'll know more about it than I, or any other straight person on these forums. However, have you ever stopped to think that maybe you're bisexual? Just because currently you aren't attracted to any member of the same sex as yourself doesn't mean you're "ungay"; you used to be, at least, attracted to them - much the same as if you were straight and then became attracted to someone of the same gender as yourself, you aren't "unstraight" - you're bisexual.

Now, you say you "made" yourself straight - you mean, you pushed your true self to the back, to please others and live up to their expectations. You aren't being true to yourself - which is quite sad.

Homosexuality isn't something that can be cured, nor does it need to be cured; there's nothing wrong with it. Religion is the main reason why it is viewed as wrong; perhaps if there was no such religious belief, there'd be little prejudice.
Now, not to turn this into a religious debate, but one of the fundamental Christian beliefs is that "god" made man, giving him all he has now - so, if homosexuality is so wrong, why is it something that people are born as? Don't give me the excuse that "'god' gives people the choice" - because, like you said, it isn't a choice - and don't say it's a test. If this is regarded by your supreme being as wrong, why make people like it to begin with?

People don't suffer from homosexuality; they suffer the prejudice of people like you (despite what you say about your past). They suffer from the hatred imparted upon them by bible-bashing fundamentalists who can't stand anyone being different from the perfect replica of what they read in a book.

Why is homosexuality a sexual disorder? If that's so, then shouldn't being straight also be regarded as a sexual disorder? I mean, a gay man falls in love with another gay man; a straight man falls in love with a straight woman. Tell me what the difference is, aside from that in one, both are men. The feelings are the same; so why is it wrong?

You also, despite what you say, seem to regard homosexuality as only sleeping with a member of your own gender - but it isn't. It's having feelings for someone of your own gender, it's living the way you want to with the person you love. The sexual part of it isn't what defines a relationship - and yet, you continuously see people regarding homosexuality as sleeping with someone of the same gender, and not as finding love in someone of your own gender, finding trust in someone of your own gender - being happy with someone of your own gender.

And up till now, I have been quite civil. But you know, being condescended in ways such as, "you heathens", really makes me lose all respect I might have ever had for you had we met anywhere else. You're so caught up in your own little world, in which you've decided that everyone must do what you believe to be right, and if not, well, they're going to hell. You are what we call an extremist; and, believe it or not, people such as yourself earn very little respect, and aren't tolerated very well. Yes, this might seem to contradict the issue that tolerance of difference should be exercised; but then, you don't get other people abusing others for their difference the way you are. You don't get other people regarding those who don't share your beliefs as lesser beings.

Who said our conclusions were wrong? You? Oh, gee, I see. You seem to believe that, because you believe the words of some story written a while ago, you're better than everyone, and get to say such things. You're not better. In fact, while I will readily say that all humans are equal in rights, etc., I'd be willing, and am willing, to say that you have shown yourself to be the lesser person here.

Now, you say that males can't procreate, and nor can females - and while, if you mean, two males or two females, you may be right in terms of natural reproduction, science defies that; it's obviously biologically possible.

You're stuck believeing the words of a book written to explain why the world was the way it was before science could explain that; sure, that's your choice. But coming into these forums, labelling all of us here heathens, and being generally condescending, and bigoted, and prejudiced, is not acceptable. If we're all doomed to hell, you'd best not associate with us; the easiest way to ensure we don't have some kind of detrimental effect on your "holier than thou" attitude, or corrupt you in any way, is to not post here.

You may call us heathen, if it makes you feel better about yourself; it just makes you look sad, and let's us know that there is no level below the one you've apparently sunken to. You call us heathen; I call you the worst kind of human being in existance.

[123LTJ]

Originally posted by Blink4JC
Someone said that they are Christian and then Bible allows gay marriages, well then read Leviticus 18:22 AND Romans 1:26-27. It says that homosexuality is wrong.

Quoting from a contemporary Bible:

Leviticus 18:22: "It is disgusting for a man to have sex with another man."

Disgusting being the operative word there. It doesn't say it's a sin. Just gross. Also, keep in mind that this is the book of the bible that tells us to sacrafice goats and bulls for God. (Leviticus 1-8 ) It also tells us that women in their period or for 3 weeks to a month after giving birth may not go to church or see a priest. (Leviticus 12) If you swear at your parents, you shall be put to death. (Leviticus 20:9) Do you follow all of those laws, too?

Romans 1:26-27: "God let them follow their own evil desires. Women no longer wanted to have sex in a natural way, and they did things to each other that were not natural. Men behaved in the same way. They stopped wanting to have sex with women and had strong desires for sex with other men. They did shameful things with each other, and what happened to them is punishment for their foolish deeds."

We're not talking about wild gay sex here, we're talking about loving another human being... sex is something that may or may not go along with that. Also, realize that the Bible was written by PEOPLE, not God directly. God supposedly spoke through people, but what was to stop people from putting their own twist on things here and there? Plus, the Bible has been translated and updated so many times, who's to say that it wasn't changed somewhere in there?

Also, you once again brought up the fact that marriage is for reproduction. So a sterile man should never get married?

Me:1. You: a lifetime of ignorence, unneeded repentance for your "sin" of homosexuality, and confusion as to why not all of your "demons" are gone. Please realize that statistically, nearly half of the people "converted" to heterosexuality commit suicide. I hope you can work things out, and come to grips with your life whatever way it goes. But please, PLEASE do not go around telling people that they are sinners for being gay. It's simply not true. Many homosexuals are very nice, and are great people. Homosexuality does not define who a person is, it is merely a portion of who they are.

[Mister Myuu]

Originally posted by Blink4JC
Homosexuality is wrong. Yes, I, myself, was gay, but I BECAME UNGAY! I'm currently straight, beleive it or not. I almost made myself become straight because of my religion and family and my teachings. The Bible is here to TEACH us. Those who keep saying to think for yourself--how do you learn in school? Reading and being taught to by those things that are meant to instruct, such as the Bible. Someone said that they are Christian and then Bible allows gay marriages, well then read Leviticus 18:22 AND Romans 1:26-27. It says that homosexuality is wrong. Now I'm not saying it's a choice, I once was gay and didn't chose that way, I see it more of a curable disorder. People don't choose to be autistic, either, or ADD, or Fugue disorders, but some mental disorders, such as MPD and OCD can be cured. Homosexuality and Bisexuality SHOULD be qualified as Sexuality Disorders. It's not a choice, but it is curable. The Bible clearly states that it's wrong more than once. Most of you heathens are going to hell because you think you're too smart to be taught, you must make your own wrong conclusions instead of the definite ones set out by the Bible. I don't care if I'm terribly flamed by this or not cuz I rarely post, but homosexuality is wrong and a bunch of people suffering from it can't change that. Marraige was meant for procreation, and males cannot procreate and neither can women. MARRIAGE AND SEX WERE MEANT FOR PROCREATION. Bottom Line: Homosexual Marriages = Wrong!

Well lookie what we have here.. a full-fledged bible thumping, holier-than-thou, extremist, funDUMentalist ignoramus. I can't help but comment that this sounds almost exactly like your average extremist rant. You have an ugly lie about once being gay (its one of those self-righteous sacrificial funDUMentalist ignoramus ), references to bible scriptures (even though the 'good book' is falsified for the convenience of the higher authorities), and the use of their most favorite word.. heathen... It's quite funny that this Blink4JC, in trying to make homosexuality (and those defending it) look bad, has broke one of the words of God. Those being 'Judge not lest thee be judged.' Well Blinky, looks like you'll be joining the rest of us in hell you sinner!!

Now, as for this bull**** you wrote.. where to begin.....

Homosexuality is wrong. Yes, I, myself, was gay, but I BECAME UNGAY! I'm currently straight, beleive it or not. I almost made myself become straight because of my religion and family and my teachings.

First, assuming you truly were gay and that isn't a lie in order to make a point, I'd like to be the bearer of bad news and tell you that, in reality, you still are gay. You've simpily relegated how you really feel to the back burner because you friends, family, and church were condemning you just as you've done to all of us in your post. I hope, for your sake, you were truthful on this account. Remember.. God frowns on liers


The Bible is here to TEACH us. Those who keep saying to think for yourself--how do you learn in school? Reading and being taught to by those things that are meant to instruct, such as the Bible.

So you're saying we shouldn't think for ourselves? That we should all be a bunch of mindless zombies that think, act, do everything the same exact way as set out in some book that has been deemed true. Honestly, that has got to be the single most idiotic statement in this entire post. If God had meant us to be that, God wouldn't have given us the ability to choose. Either that or God would have made us all dogs. How do we learn in school? Well, I had to teach myself because most of the teachers only cared about getting their paycheck then going home. But that is a whole other topic entirely. And the bible isn't meant to instruct. The bible we have today is meant to corrupt. It may once have been a book dictating the word of God and his many adventures (for lack of a better word) but now it dictates the word of the government and so many corrupted preists. Basing a religion on the bible, nowadays anyway, is not the wisest of ideas.


Someone said that they are Christian and then Bible allows gay marriages, well then read Leviticus 18:22 AND Romans 1:26-27. It says that homosexuality is wrong.

As stated above, any and all bible scriptures are, in my opinion, automatically deemed irrelevant in arguments because of the falsification of the bible over the last centuries. Enough said.


Now I'm not saying it's a choice, I once was gay and didn't chose that way, I see it more of a curable disorder. People don't choose to be autistic, either, or ADD, or Fugue disorders, but some mental disorders, such as MPD and OCD can be cured. Homosexuality and Bisexuality SHOULD be qualified as Sexuality Disorders. It's not a choice, but it is curable.

Oh you've GOT to be kidding me Blinky, you're a sad, pathetic little man for even thinking that homosexuality is a disease. Your ignorance, however, is a disease and a highly contagious one. I would suggest locking yourself in a room before it spreads. (I don't like insulting people, but I think this called for an exception)


Most of you heathens are going to hell because you think you're too smart to be taught, you must make your own wrong conclusions instead of the definite ones set out by the Bible.

*laughs uncontrolably for 5 minutes before being able to type* You gotta love it. Blinky thinks he has the authority to damn people to hell. The harsh truth for you blinky is that you're the heathen because you think you're almighty and higher than everyone else. Also, the second definition of 'heathen' in the dictionary is 'A strange and uncivilized person'. I think that sums you up in a nutshell along with the rest of your extremist comrades. Oh, and another word used in that definition was 'pagan'. Did you know, blinky, that christianity stole many of its beliefs and rituals from the early pagans? Things such as Christmas and Halloween were practiced be pagans before the christians decided to adopt them as well. And then the christians persecuted pagans for their beliefs later on. Talk about your mother of hypocricy.


Marraige was meant for procreation, and males cannot procreate and neither can women. MARRIAGE AND SEX WERE MEANT FOR PROCREATION.

Actually, marriage (you spells marriage wrong, by the way ) was an invention of some religious sect for some reason the eludes my mind for the time being. In truth, there was no such thing as marriage in the eras that the bible is said to have taken place. It was simply added later on as the bible began to be falsified.


As a closing thought, blinky, I'd like to ask you a question. What would happen if you and some other christian funDUMentalist were to have a difference of opinion on some matter. Would you both be wrong and thus damned to hell or would this cause some sort of weird paradox that would cause the universe to implode in on itself? Just curious.

[geoff]

I like how Bush and the Pope are taking such a strong stand against same-sex marriages, but did nothing of that extremity when preists were (and still are) raping young boys. Yeah, their priorities are SO straight.

This makes me sick. Christianity currently makes me sick to my stomach. But that's just because so many Christians interpret it oddly. I applaud 123LTJ for his most recent post here. Christians can be so hypocritical that it makes me want to smack them all to their senses. **READ: Please don't take any offense if you happen to be Christians. I don't mean to hurt anybody in saying that, I'm just stating my current feelings. I truly am sorry if anyone gets offended.**

But getting away from the religious part of this... Blink4JC- you are so wrong. Like TRO said, that's not 'ungay'. You'll always be gay inside, no matter what you make ppl think. You're bisexual, and there's nothing wrong with that. Yet you've forced yourself to believe there is

[GR-Gligar]

Originally posted by Blink4JC
Homosexuality is wrong. Yes, I, myself, was gay, but I BECAME UNGAY! I'm currently straight, beleive it or not. I almost made myself become straight because of my religion and family and my teachings. The Bible is here to TEACH us. Those who keep saying to think for yourself--how do you learn in school? Reading and being taught to by those things that are meant to instruct, such as the Bible. Someone said that they are Christian and then Bible allows gay marriages, well then read Leviticus 18:22 AND Romans 1:26-27. It says that homosexuality is wrong. Now I'm not saying it's a choice, I once was gay and didn't chose that way, I see it more of a curable disorder. People don't choose to be autistic, either, or ADD, or Fugue disorders, but some mental disorders, such as MPD and OCD can be cured. Homosexuality and Bisexuality SHOULD be qualified as Sexuality Disorders. It's not a choice, but it is curable. The Bible clearly states that it's wrong more than once. Most of you heathens are going to hell because you think you're too smart to be taught, you must make your own wrong conclusions instead of the definite ones set out by the Bible. I don't care if I'm terribly flamed by this or not cuz I rarely post, but homosexuality is wrong and a bunch of people suffering from it can't change that. Marraige was meant for procreation, and males cannot procreate and neither can women. MARRIAGE AND SEX WERE MEANT FOR PROCREATION. Bottom Line: Homosexual Marriages = Wrong!

lol you f*cking c*ntface, shut the hell up.

[123LTJ]

Originally posted by GR-Gligar
The bible has been written by idiots

Whoa. That's a bit harsh. I happen to believe that many of the ideas of the Bible are good. I look at the Bible as a good guideline for living life, and I like a lot of it's lessons. I just don't take it verbatum. I believe that many of the books are wonderfully written with good morals and stories. Of course, there are some that I don't believe should be taken too seriously (Leveticus, as already brought up), and some that are just stories (most of the old testament).
Some are very beautifully written (Psalms, Lamentations, Song of Solomon, Ecclesiastes), and that alone conveys some ingenuity on the authors' parts.


So please, despite that fact that it contradicts itself, and has been used for the wrong reasons before (our pal Blinky here being case-in-point), that does not mean that it was "written by idiots". That being said, you made some good points: much of Leveticus was written because it NEEDED to be in those days. It wasn't so much a moral thing, but more of a survival thing.