World of Warcraft: Take 2

[Razola]

The 10 "uber" people are the ones that come the most and were the biggest help to the raid. If you have 10 people getting the gear; that means 10 people are regularly attending and 30 are being slackers.

[Last Exile]

Actually, that isn't quite true.

If you look at Eminence (the #1 guild in WoW full stop), they have two Warriors in particular, World and Paytun, who are far more buff than anyone else (both wield Thunderfury and all their other items are all epics from MC, Ony, BWL or 4 Dragons). It has nothing to do with attendance. It's because they are the main tanks so therefore they get preference regardless.

In my guild though, it is attendance based. Since I've been to 27 consecutive raids and I make a load of potions/farm a lot of Black Lotus for the guild, lately I've been given my Cenarion pieces over those with equal attendance but they've been far longer in the guild compared to me.

And Raz, 'slacker' usually means they're at work. At least for my guild, anyway.

[Razola]

That's not DKP, that's "Giving preference to main tanks over other people."

It's quite different.

[Charizard04621]

Give me DKP any day, that's the most fair system... DKP is when you earn points for your efforts, Last Exile, real, tangible points, not "Oh, I feel like giving stuff to this person, he's earned lots of imaginary points for doing this and this and this, I'll just give it to him". DKP involves actually earning the points, and even then you don't get guaranteed gear. I would hate to be skipped over if I made just as much effort as the next person just because of preference. I'll take my silent auctions with my hard-earned points, thanks. =/

Your system is all fine and dandy when you're bringing in the loot, but it kinda sucks going into a 40-person instance, devoting that much time, and then knowing that some other guy of your class is going to for sure get the loot and you don't even stand a fighting chance.

[Last Exile]

Actually, that's when strategy comes in to play.

I've been in my guild for 6 months+ less than all the other druids and nearly allt he other members. Yet I have the most set pieces of any member. Why?

Because I was STRATEGIC. When I was first a member, I intentionally asked only for the pieces NO ONE ELSE had. I almost always got them. Now that the pieces I didn't go for have been picked up by everyone else, they have automatically become mine. Hence I've rocketed past everyone while everyone else goes 'wtf?! how did you get that many already?!'

Under our system, you earn points via No. of raids attended and contributions to the guild. And no one is complaining. Once everyone has gone to 30+ raids they all have at least 6 pieces each anyway and are equal in strength in our guild. Except for the Hunters, because Hunter loot drops like 1% of the time when we kill bosses. Sad but true. While the Mages and Warlocks get something from Onyxia and nearly every MC bosss every week. Go figure.

[FTorchicX]

Alright, so I have finally hit 58, and am finally on my way to hitting 60 (thanks to my mage buddies who have no problem AOEing the undead in WPL to help me gain xp =P). Since I'm almost done leveling up and am getting comfortable with just running instances for my gear, I'm starting to consider what my next character should be. Although I have leveld up a druid to 22, but I sort of feel like I'll have the same role in endgame instance (healing, which is most likely true). So, I'm leaning away from healing, since I want to be a class that is purely offensive.

I've considered rolling a Warrior, but I have tried this in the past and failed, mainly because I find the class somewhat boring. I already have a NE Rogue on Shattered Hand, and I do not ffeel like making another one. And basically, the only class I can get into is Mages. I have a level 11 one on Spirestone, and I find them very fun to play. Their AOE's are very intriguing, and I like the ability to make my own water and food. Also, they have the second highest DPS in the game, and are purely offensive, which means they won't be healers in Molten Core or Blackwing Lair.

Don't get me wrong, I subconciously actually do like healing, but I don't like it so much that I want it to be my main goal for the rest of my playtime.

Any suggestions? I'm all ears.

[Razola]

As a druid I am dps in MC for the most part. Even on Ragnaros.

Do not expect this, however. I had to really fight to get my way.

[Yero Thropp]

In that case Torchic, go Warlock with alchemy. You make healthstones and healing potions for health, and pots will buff you; if you have the shards for it, you can distribute healthstones to people in your group, plus you can give a soulstone to the priest and/or paly and/or shaman, so you don't feel completely useless at lower levels (lower level locks don't get much respect unless you go destruction major.) I personally love having a lock in my group for three reasons:
1) Soulstone the priest/paly/shaman
2) Healthstones to all
3) Dot the creature. Have you ever been in an instance when you were fighting like three guys with your group of five, then one of the monsters you are fighting "runs in fear," then comes back with like four more guys? Well, with a lock's dots, that isn't a problem, because usually by the time their health is low enough that they run away, they die within the next two seconds from Immolate+Corruption+Curse of Agony+Shadow bolt or wand damage.

And you don't have to worry about being a healer in MC or Blackwing Lair... nobody expects you to have an extra 40 soulshards to make 40 healthstones for everyone, however you're soulstone is extremely important. Also, you can sit in the back and hit every monster in the field with your curses within ten seconds (my personal favorite is Curse of Tongues, which cause casters to cast spells 50% slower,) then focus your corruption and/or immolate on everything... as long as your party members can hold aggro, you're safe, and dealing some kick @$$ damage over time.

BG is hilarious once you hit 26, cause that's when you get curse of tongues... use curse of tongues on priests, shamans, palys, locks, and mages (preferably priests first, then mages second, shamans/locks third, and paly's last even if you die, be glad knowing that you've rendered the mob of opponent's healers and/or 2nd best dps'ers (mages) useless, giving your mob of fighters a helluva good chance to win that small battle.

I've come to the conclusion that although locks are quite bad one-on-one (unless you know how to use them,) and they are bad in groups with more than one tank (cause their dots are worthless since monsters are dying within five seconds,) locks are wonderful against a large group, whether it be npc monsters or players. Be prepared to die often, however, especially if you plan on doing low level bg's... people see warlocks and go, "Shit, I don't have my 'immune to fear' trinket!" and attack you first. That's okay; they're probably already cursed from you, so use the healthstone, fear, dot, fear again, and pray nobody else attacks you (which, more than likely, you will get ganked; oh well! You got em cursed, so you shouldn't have to worry about your friends, especially if there is more than one lock around :biggrin

[Charizard04621]

Yero, good Warlocks are supposedly the best class 1v1. They have so many options to pets (Felguard for casters, Imp for major damage, Voidwalker for tank, not sure what Infernal does) and even without pets they can win with their evil spells =(

Not unbeatable though, just the most balanced and overall powerful 1v1 class. I duelled a Warlock yesterday two levels higher than me with my Priest, I could've won but I was only level 17 and thus couldn't purge DoT yet. I got spam feared and his imp hit me every time he feared so I couldn't shield or heal. -_-; Freaking imp, so much damage... If I could've gotten that final heal in, I would've beat him with Mind Blast/Wand, as he was nearly out of mana. I should have renewed my Shadow Word: Pain when I had the chance...

As a druid I am dps in MC for the most part. Even on Ragnaros.

Do not expect this, however. I had to really fight to get my way.

Good for you! Some people don't realize that it's insanely difficult for Druids (especially non-Resto specs) to heal at such high levels and it's much better for them to do damage/secondary tank. =/ Combat Res is nice though, especially if they get to cool down before the next big fight. What's the range of the length of end-game instances? 1-5 hours or something? I've never done them before, so I wouldn't know.

FTorchicX - Mages are pretty fun, the only problem with them is they constantly run out of mana and you need to stop to drink. Wands are good though, you aren't completely screwed then if you get run out of mana and your opponent has like, 5% health left. Get a wand for sure. Oh, another potential problem is EVERYONE ASKS YOU FOR FOOD AND WATER. Lol, if you're ready to deal with that/ignore them/whatever, go right ahead and Mage. ^_^ It's insane dps, and my Rogue will hate you. Most melee classes actually. =P

[Razola]

Intially guilds will take 4-5 hours twice a week to clear MC besides Ragnaros. But eventually you can clear all but Domo/Rag in 3-4 and then take 1-2 hours finishing it.

[FTorchicX]

As a druid I am dps in MC for the most part. Even on Ragnaros.

Do not expect this, however. I had to really fight to get my way.

Indeed. I am aware that there are some Druids that go DPS in MC and are welcomed to do so, but you have to be with an open-minded group of individuals, or be lucky enough to find a nice guild (some make it a requirement to be resto spec to join, which is really unfair to feral Druids).

Of course, if I was thinking of my guilds interest, I'd stick with my Druid (we have like 3 that are active, lol), but it's not the way I want to play when I get to 60. So, I think Mage is my best bet, since they're very fun.

I leveled up a Gnome Warlock to 14 on Burning Blade, but then got frustrated since I realized how much they do blow in WSG. The leaders don't understand the concept of "invite" (or they're just HK farmers, and there's no general group made).

Speaking of Warlocks, I do find them to be a fun class, and the free mount is definitely a plus, but I don't feel like leveling another one up right now to be honest.

[Last Exile]

It takes my guild about 4-5 hours to clear up to Ragnaros.

We are letting one of our Druids get anything that is good loot for a fully Feral Druid. JC, a Druid in Eminence, is tank #3 in their runs in Blackwing Lair. He already has Malfurion's Blessed Bulwark and anything feral that drops in MC.

I went hybrid because even if you go fully Feral, in any dungeon raid, in any battlegrounds, Druids are still the #2 healers so they will be requried to do quite a bit of healing regardless of your build. Thankfully my guild has no restrictions on builds required to join. Go the build you want.

[Musourenka]

Yero, good Warlocks are supposedly the best class 1v1. They have so many options to pets (Felguard for casters, Imp for major damage, Voidwalker for tank, not sure what Infernal does) and even without pets they can win with their evil spells =(

Heh, speaking of pets, I've been utilizing a strategy against people who think I'm an easy target ('cept against Rogues; I really want the Robe of Ambush-Whoring Reflection). I Sacrifice my Voidwalker for the 30-second shield (when grinding, I call it the "Oh Shit!" button; I love it), then use Fel Domination/Summon Succubus. The opponent now has to worry about the double threat of Seduce and Fear while I still have 25 seconds to do what I please since they can't touch me. Once I hit Master Demonologist and Soul Link, it'll be even worse for them; I get a decent damage boost, can't be killed easily, and after the Seduce/Fear locking has ended, they still have to worry about a high-DPS Succubus.

And they'll most likely have a Curse of Shadows still on them...

[FTorchicX]

It takes my guild about 4-5 hours to clear up to Ragnaros.

We are letting one of our Druids get anything that is good loot for a fully Feral Druid. JC, a Druid in Eminence, is tank #3 in their runs in Blackwing Lair. He already has Malfurion's Blessed Bulwark and anything feral that drops in MC.

I went hybrid because even if you go fully Feral, in any dungeon raid, in any battlegrounds, Druids are still the #2 healers so they will be requried to do quite a bit of healing regardless of your build. Thankfully my guild has no restrictions on builds required to join. Go the build you want.

Yeah, you're right. I should just go the build I want, and if people want me to go Resto, then Ill just say hell no.

Also, one thing I've noticed nearing endgame is that... I. HATE. LOWBIES. Honestly, has anyone else with high lvl characters hate them too? I mean, when you're low on your first guy you dont hate them cause you're new and unexperienced as well, but going back, its really annoying. I wasted about 3 hours trying to help get a VC group going, but people kept bailing. I understand that sometimes it can't be prevented, but if they KNOW they might be pressed on time, they SHOULDN'T come. Wow, didn't I rant about this in the summer?

More so, I dont mix well with the Alliance. Of course my Rogue is on Shattered Hand, and I'm not sure if the Alliance there are that great anyways.

[Charizard04621]

What did the random bailing have to do with lowbies? =/

[Leon-IH]

We are letting one of our Druids get anything that is good loot for a fully Feral Druid. JC, a Druid in Eminence, is tank #3 in their runs in Blackwing Lair. He already has Malfurion's Blessed Bulwark and anything feral that drops in MC.

Thier warriors must be seriously crappy, or they're just certified unlucky with warrior drops.

[Last Exile]

His damage reduction is somewhere between 80-90%

That's why.

Their 2 main warriors both ahve THudnerfury and full epic lineups.

Eminence are #1 undisputed.

[Yero Thropp]

Just thought I'd throw in a great success story...

I'm (was) level 20 paladin with Smite's Hammer from deadmines; I had it buffed to give it +7 weapon damage (w00t pwnage.) I wore a ton of armor pieces that upgraded my strength... well, I dueled a friend of mine for fun, a level 27 hunter with a bear for a pet.

I ended up using my blessing of protection and my other protection spell in order to survive (didn't use lay on hands; one full hour cooldown just for one duel? No thank you, I think I'll save it.) He did beat me, but I had his life down to a sliver. What really impressed me was the fact that I did that much damage to his health in three hits O_O... I critted once for almost 300.

Oh, and WSG with that weapon was laughable :biggrin:. Tauren Warriors were like, wtf?? every time I hit them and did more than a quarter of their life's worth of damage each hit. Then I'd stun them and hit them two more times and they were almost dead... by the third consecutive game, I had every stinkin person on me. Even a paladin can't survive three warriors, a druid and a mage all at the same time. Though it made getting the flag easy, with half of the group trying to kill me I just pulled out my sheild (with 495 defense, giving me a total of around 1750 armor,) and grinned.

Blizzard announced at Blizzcon that Paladin's were considered the "easy class" to play. Sadly, this is true, however only for lower levels; you have to learn when to tank and what armor and buffs you are going to use when, along with who to heal and when. I think I have three aura's now to choose from, along with I believe four blessings I can distribute, two different kinds of healing spells, and I believe five different seals. People complain about Paladins being easy, and they're only half right; paly's high defense allows slower thinking players time to react to things, and healing spells help them out tremendously. However, it gets complicated at higher levels.

There's my two-cents of the day . Oh, and Harry Potter 4 the movie comes out at midnight tonight :biggrin:. *sings* I have tiiiickeeets...

[Charizard04621]

Paladins are mean in WSG, my biggest nightmare is facing a whole team of them. None of them will die or let each other die... Sometimes I wish we had rolled Alliance, but only for the Paladins and the short queues. I'm still Horde at heart =P

[Razola]

Their 2 main warriors both ahve THudnerfury and full epic lineups.

Eminence are #1 undisputed.

We have guilds on Sargeras with multiple Thunderfurys. We have multiple people with all of their Tier 2 sets. I haven't even HEARD of Eminence until you spoke of them. And I know of special guilds like Drama, Nurfed, Death & Taxes, and the Goon Squad. Eminence is nothing special.

[FTorchicX]

What did the random bailing have to do with lowbies? =/

It just tends to happen more often because newcomers usually don't estimate an instances time, and end up leaving in the middle of it.

[Charizard04621]

It just tends to happen more often because newcomers usually don't estimate an instances time, and end up leaving in the middle of it.

I've had that happen to me several times, but it's not necessarily "lowbies" that do it. We got screwed over in ZF and Mara like 10 levels back, people leaving constantly... I wouldn't call level 45 to 50-ish low. I'd just call those guys inconsiderate. -_- 10 minutes into the instance, our warrior tank said "Sorry guys gotta help my guild with stuff. Invite Catfood." And then we invited this freaking Shaman that he told us to... who proceeded to purposely wipe us three times so that he could leave. He aoed every single scarab in the room, opened up multiple graves as we were fighting the boss, ummm. Yeah. People cannot possibly be that stupid, they can be inconsiderate though. Wish he'd just told us he didn't want to come and save us our time. =/

[FTorchicX]

I suppose that's true. Try and understand that I was angry last night, and wasn't thinking clearly.

Anyways, got some good news: I got my Coif of Elements today. Only other competition I had was a 55 Shaman, but luckily I outrolled him (like I should. He's 55, he was lucky to even be there ;x). I found it amusing that our guild leader (who is also a Shaman) had to run Scholo 10 times to get his, while I got mine in 1. Anyways, good day, now all I need is the Bloodmail Hauberk.

[Last Exile]

We have guilds on Sargeras with multiple Thunderfurys. We have multiple people with all of their Tier 2 sets. I haven't even HEARD of Eminence until you spoke of them. And I know of special guilds like Drama, Nurfed, Death & Taxes, and the Goon Squad. Eminence is nothing special.

1. Definitely never heard of those guilds.
2. Some of the most stupid guild names I ever heard.
3. Eminence have only been going for about 8-10 months and have done anything there is to do and then some.
4. Good luck finding an Eminence member that ISN'T full tier 2.

[Razola]

Drama: First Nefarion kill Ever
Death & Taxes: 2nd Nefarion kill, only noteworthy because it was VERY shortly after Drama.
Nurfed: One of the top Horde Guilds and the first guilds that went through BWL.
Goon Squad: Something Awful guilds. Noted for their size and presence on their servers.

Other notables include Ascent (first Rag kill) and Conquest (showed us the first looks at Molten Core).

Oh, and the game has only been out for 12 fucking months. So 8-10 over 75% of that. If you have never heard of ANY of those guilds listed above, don't even bother gloating about this glorious no-name guild.

[Leon-IH]

4. Good luck finding an Eminence member that ISN'T full tier 2.

Lets see, assuming Nef drops 2.5 tier 2 chests each run and the guild has 50 members they've been killing him for 20 weeks, so your saying they killed Nef about 4 months ago.

I call BS, especially as having 50 members is unlikely for a BWL raiding guild.

[Last Exile]

From my mail, I heard Eminence killed Nefarian before any other guild. If they didn't, they were #3. And they only took 2 attempts to kill Nefarion. Attempt 1 - 60%. 2nd attempt - victory.

They killed him about 2-3 months ago from memory. They've been doing BWL from the day 1.6 came out.

Their guild has about 60 regulars and about 100 backups.

The regulars are almost all pure tier 2.

They're the ONLY guild on Blackrock that kills any of the Four Dragons because they camp all of them and always have 50 people ready to get him. They kill each dragon twice a day. They almost always have a group farming CC faction in Silithus and summoning the Lords. They killed the Emissary within 3-4 hours of Silithus being updated.

From all the Horde guilds I've heard of or seen, they are excellent PvP but far inferior PvE compared to the Alliance. Alliance have 4 guilds on Blacrock that have cleared BWL, Horde 1. 20 Alliance guilds that have cleared Molten Core, 8 Horde.

Horde guilds own PvP but are laughable PvE overall. However, The Elite are the most impressive Horde guild I've ever seen or heard off. They are the one Horde guild I won't diss. Lords of Death, One, Indoor Kids, NDC - PvP whores.

As for Alliance, Eminence, Inquisition, Redefined and Hitsquad are the noteworthy ones I've heard of. Inquisition generally do whatever Eminence do about 1-2 weeks after Eminence do.

If I could get a link for the info on the guilds that are supposedly the best, that would be nice.

Furthermore, those doing stuff first are generally bums/addicts who do nothing outside of WoW. Being first is nice to be able to say but in reality it means nothing. People can do whatever they want at their own pace. Furthermore I don't have 16 hours in a day to search through every realm forum on WoW.

[Charizard04621]

Furthermore I don't have 16 hours in a day to search through every realm forum on WoW.

Then don't claim to know more than you do... I have no idea what any of these guilds are, so I will make no comment.

[Leon-IH]

Horde guilds own PvP but are laughable PvE overall. However, The Elite are the most impressive Horde guild I've ever seen or heard off. They are the one Horde guild I won't diss. Lords of Death, One, Indoor Kids, NDC - PvP whores.

NEWS FLASH ON THE 5OCLOCK NEWS: YOUR ON A PvP SERVER.

Don't whinge if people cbf with MC - I don't blame em, it's often boring and pretty unhelpful for pvp gear.

[FTorchicX]

Horde guilds own PvP but are laughable PvE overall. However, The Elite are the most impressive Horde guild I've ever seen or heard off. They are the one Horde guild I won't diss. Lords of Death, One, Indoor Kids, NDC - PvP whores.

Indoor Kids sounds familiar. What server are they on?

[Last Exile]

Indoor Kids are on Blackrock. They do full guild runs or teamups with Lords of Death in Arathi Basin virtually all day, every day. The only time they're not in Arathi Basin is when they're in Molten Core.

They are very good in PvP. However, every time Soga Mijizi comes across them as we're both going to MC, we absolutely cream them 8 ways from Sunday. We came across them 3 MC runs in a row and the scores went 40-5, 40-3 and 40-2 our way.

My point is, Raz and Charizard, I only give a damn about guilds on Blackrock. The others don't affect what happens to me on WoW at all. So why should I care about them? The only guilds that affect me are those on Blackrock, so I give them my attention. Good luck to those on other servers, but they don't affect me so I don't give them my time.

Going to have my first Blackwing Lair run tonight. Razorgore the Untamed....the ultimate kitefest. This fight is going to be insane, but hopefully fun too.

@Leon - Only people who can play 16-20 hours a day for 4+ months will ever get decent PvP gear. The PvP gear is only worthwhile once you hit Marshal. Spending 16+ hours a day in Arathi Basin would just kill the fun of the game. Plus anyone doing that is either unemployed or about to fail university or high school. Anyone can get PvP gear if they somehow chew out the time. PvE is far more interesting.

[FTorchicX]

Going to have my first Blackwing Lair run tonight. Razorgore the Untamed....the ultimate kitefest. This fight is going to be insane, but hopefully fun too.

Yeah, good luck in Blackwing Lair. LOL, still haven't gotten that Onyxia Key yet.

I'm hoping to make it to the next ZG guild run, as I should be 60 by then. After all, I'm about 3 bars away from 59, and I found out that I am able to get into a 5 man UD Strat group and do fine (honestly, we were doing great, except for when those damn bat patrols came along). People have said that it's hard, but I didn't find it as challenging as they made it out to be. Maybe our group was just better at communicating with eachother, who knows?

[Last Exile]

Communication is essential in any run. As for Stratholme 5 man, yeah, it's easy when you do it with good people at your side. Just be wary for the Eye of Narimaxas. As soon as you see the yell emote, nuke it or say hi to a crapload of 60 elite Gargoyles.

For Baron, only take out what you need to. The instance has a 90 minute-2 hour timer reset, so you have to get it down relatively quickly or a wipe late in the run will leave you back at the start with everything respawned. Get the three ziggurats down and head straight for the Baron. You'll need healing and AoE to beat him 5 man so Druid, Priest, Pally, Warrior and Mage is my recommended lineup for Alliance. Horde, Shaman or Rogue instead of Paladin.

Catherdal side of Stratholme is a bit different since you have human creeps for the 2nd half of the run, plus healing isn't quite as crucial on this side but still essential in 5 man runs. I found the best way for the Alliance was 2 Paladins, Druid, Warrior and Mage. 3 Tanks were invaluable in handling the mobs because they are larger on this side. As for Horde, Priest, Shaman, Druid, Warrior, Mage. The Horde Druid will need to occasionally tank. Don't bother doing the Postman or the Hoard in a 5 man run. Just head striaght for Balnazzar and don't look back.

Paladin Divine Intervention saves so much time in instances. Pally loses aggro on a wipe and lives then resses everyone. Saves around 10 minutes each time in Stratholme and Scholomance, more like 30 in MC and BWL if the soulstoned person died in a really lousy spot.

On the last MC cycle we just did, I got main tank healing duties for 8 out of the 10 fights and off tank healing duties for the other 2. I don't get relegated to spot heals on the other groups anymore. As Raz pointed out to me, the bloated mana pool that comes from Heart of the Wild is a winner. I know get 8404 mana with full raid buffs on.

Pally raid buffs duration on their Blessings is going to be increased from 5 mins to 15 mins. That is going to be so good, finally they won't wear off during MC , Ony and BWL fights.

[Razola]

@Leon - Only people who can play 16-20 hours a day for 4+ months will ever get decent PvP gear. The PvP gear is only worthwhile once you hit Marshal. Spending 16+ hours a day in Arathi Basin would just kill the fun of the game. Plus anyone doing that is either unemployed or about to fail university or high school. Anyone can get PvP gear if they somehow chew out the time. PvE is far more interesting.

PvE is a grind. There is nothing interesting after you do it 5,000 times. I'm fucking tired of MC, and I want to kill Ragnaros so I can say "I'm done with this shit."

Not that I don't like PvE, but PvP is far more interesting. It's human players, who are vastly superior to Blizzard's autoattacking automatons. I can play MC a thousand times and there wil be little variation. I can play Arathi Basin a thousand times and encounter much more. I can team up with different people, fight against different people, and take on different roles. As for rewards...it's fun. Other games don't require rewards to be fun, and I feel this way about PvP. But, there are rewards, and while the Honor System is a steaming pile, you can still get a lot out of PvP by increasing your reputation with the many Battleground Factions.

And Alliance PvE is easy mode. In 1.9, this will be even more true.

EDIT: Communication is only optional in PvE. Once the encounter is committed to memory, there is little reason to speak up. But communication in PvP will always help you emerge a winner.

[Last Exile]

I agree the PvP grind is fun but you need a CRAPLOAD of time to do it, Raz. If you want to reach Grand Marshal, you need 14 other friends and a lot of time to get there.

[Charizard04621]

My point is, Raz and Charizard, I only give a damn about guilds on Blackrock. The others don't affect what happens to me on WoW at all. So why should I care about them? The only guilds that affect me are those on Blackrock, so I give them my attention. Good luck to those on other servers, but they don't affect me so I don't give them my time.

Then how can you claim that what's-its-name guild is #1 undisputed? *sweatdrop* You need to realize when you make unspecific comments like that, not everyone is going to agree with you.

I play PvP for fun, you have to understand that PvP is not just BG. It's also fighting 8v15 outside Light's Hope Chapel in the Eastern Plaguelands and emerging victorious. And who cares about PvP rank, it's not my main priority. I play WSG because it is fun. Also, I know lots of people who play AV simply for the reputation rewards, and that doesn't decay in time so you have infinite time to collect reputation. The only ones who will get the epic PvP gear are the people who are willing to spend insane amounts of time in BG, true, but who really needs that gear? Sure, it's sweet gear, but it gets old when you destroy people continuously and they have 0% chance of fighting back.

Also, just exactly how many MC and BWL runs do you expect to do before you get fully geared up? Unless you're insanely lucky, that's going to add up to a lot of time as well. I'd rather fight human players than kill the same computer that acts the same way every single time. Also, with PvP, you set your own time. You might not finish your queue, but at least you chose in what time period you wanted to play. In PvE raids you have to follow whatever schedule is set.

I don't know about you but I'd rather play a 10-man WSG game for fun than go in some 40-person raid where unless you're a main tank/healer nobody notices what you're doing for the team.

[Yero Thropp]

Pally raid buffs duration on their Blessings is going to be increased from 5 mins to 15 mins. That is going to be so good, finally they won't wear off during MC , Ony and BWL fights.

Where did you learn this?

[pikadragonite]

I haven't been on this site in like 5 years and this page popped up in a google search for something else. I play WoW now, Blood Guard Lorelie, lvl 60 undead mage, stonemaul server, Commander of The Shadows Return. Look me up for some pokemon reminiscing if you like.

[Last Exile]

Only 5 regular Druids maximum in my guild. Getting loot is insanely easy.

And personally, I never get tired of battling Majordomo Executus. It requires all 40 members of the raid to be on the ball. If one person screws up, the whole fight falls apart. It's a very precise and strategic fight, combined with Domo's unpredictability on who he ports into the lava pit and who suddenly gets aggro on him, forcing a hunter or warrior #2 to draw him back.

[Razola]

I agree the PvP grind is fun but you need a CRAPLOAD of time to do it, Raz. If you want to reach Grand Marshal, you need 14 other friends and a lot of time to get there.

You're missing my point. I expect loot out of PvE because it loses the "newness" quickly. PvP has variation in my opponent's behaviors. Therefore, I don't mind grinding for Arathi basin rep because it's fun to do so. MC...not so much.

And like I said before, the honor system is a massive time sink, but there are other venues in PvP from which to get loot.