World of Warcraft: Take 2

[FTorchicX]

Yes, but did I forget to mention that we only had a couple Druids there? ;-)

[Last Exile]

I prefer the Cenarion Leggings myself but they are both very good pants.

Currently I sit at 8509 mana on full raid buffs now and +171 to healing.

[Yero Thropp]

Story time! *gathers everyone around*

I get home from my exam, tired and looking for some entertainment. I get online, and a friend of mine IM's me. He says he's gonna go gank some Alliance in Ashenvale (he plays lvl 50 undead rogue on the same server I play Alliance; he's the rebel of my irl friends lol.) So, in an effort to stop him, I get on WoW and suddenly remembered that I logged out in Astraanar (score!) So, I got another irl friend of mine, a 45 hunter, to help me kill him (I'm a 30 paladin.)

Well, after we killed him a few times, another irl friend of mine, a 56 mage, decided to stop by. The four of us danced around a bit, then decided hey, let's go to the Barrens and gank lowbies! As we ran along, I got attacked by a 27 rogue (idiot) who was killed in about .2 seconds by my 56 mage friend. We also picked up a 27 human warrior, who thought it was rather strange that three alliance members were all crowded around this lvl 50 mounted undead rogue and running together.

So, our team of a 27 warrior, a 30 paly, 45 hunter and 56 mage finally approached the Crossroads. Mark (undead rogue) imed me, asking why we bothered to go to the Crossroads, because 60's always pass through; we'd surely die to a pair of sixties. Well, what we ended up doing was aggroing a few guards and killing them off, then dancing with a few of the lowbies that came out to greet us.

I was starting to get bored, until I noticed that one of the lowbies that was dancing had a crown symbol, meaning that he was in a group. So, I questioned the rest of my group about it.
Me- "Uh, guys? One of the lowbies is in a group."
Others- "So?" "So what?"
Me- "Well, I usually group up for two reasons; one, I'm doing a quest or instance"
Others- "Or a raid" "raid" "Oh shit guys raid"
Me- "Yep o shit around corner"

That was all I could get out before we were swarmed, literally, by (I swear it,) over 20 lowbies. I looked to the corner of my screen and noticed that I had been neglecting the IM's I was getting from Mark... I quickly scanned it, noting phrases such as, "You guys are fucked," "all over general," and "they're mass grouping."

The warrior we were with, though only 27, was very good; he focused his attacks on the cloth wearers. Our 45 hunter just shot up everything with viper sting and concussion shot (while his tiger tore the lowbies to pieces,) and the 56 mage kept using that ice-funnel thing (whatever it's called, I never knew mage attacks...) I pulled out my healing gear and healed whoever needed healing.

Though (surprisingly) I died once (go for the healer, I guess,) we came out victorious. The lowbies finally left us alone, and gathered again in Crossroads.

Our victory was not short lived. Mark furiously typed what people were saying in the barrens, saying that people were calling guild members in to attack us. He laughed, though, because people were getting furious; apparently the higher level guild members had other matters to attend to. So, we danced around some more, killed off a few more guards and the such. We felt kinda good, but not very; downing twenty lowbies is definitely something to laugh about, but it's not a big accomplishment when you have a mage to freeze them in place, plus doing more than half of a life bar to each of them with each spell, plus a hunter with a high level pet probably killing them in seconds, and a 45 hunter wtfpwning like crazy... add a healer that can't die cause of sheilds, plus a warrior to ping off the lowbie healers and you're set.

Things got better when Mark told me that somewhere else was being attacked. I put up a general chat, asking if anyone wanted to help gank Crossroads, and we got the guy who was attacking elsewhere; a lvl 60 gnome warrior.

Just then, I get a warning from Mark again (this time I looked.) He said that a high level druid came in Crossroads right when someone was talking about "this raid group of alliance" standing outside. The druid asked for our levels and someone said, and I quote:
"There are like 7 60's outside Crossroads!"
I got a kick out of this, and so did my party when I told them. By the time I told them, however, the internet gods decided to smite us.

From behind Crossroads came a SWARM of horde, lowbies and ??'s (to me, lvl 30) combined. The 60 warrior starting pinging off all the lowbies; the 27 warrior died almost immediately, and I guess the others didn't bother with me because killing a paladin is an annoying process Well anyway, the three of us manage to kill off all four of the ??'s before I died (turned out to be a 52 warrior, 54 priest and two 60 locks.) Unfortunately, those four managed to kill of our lvl 60 warrior friend, and brought our 56 mage and 45 hunter down to nothing... without my devotion aura, and with no mana, he was suddenly a pig in the slaughter to the lowbies...

I was able to give my 45 hunter friend a final blessing of wisdom before I died... he's a very good hunter, btw. He dueled my 56 mage friend earlier and nearly won. Later that day, when we were on our way out, he and I fought the two lvl 60 locks who chased us and we won ("wtf? we won?") Anyway, he was able to down about half of the lowbies there before he died. So indeed, we died, however we did very well. Mark, who was sitting by on his mount watching, told me over AIM that he was actually quite impressed; he didn't think we'd do so hot against the two 60 locks and the other high levels, let alone the twenty or so lowbies that were out there, but we managed to kill off nearly every one of them.

'Twas a good day

[Razola]

I prefer the Cenarion Leggings myself but they are both very good pants.

Currently I sit at 8509 mana on full raid buffs now and +171 to healing.

7k mana, +350 healing, 39 mana every five seconds.

You focus way too much on Int. The Salamander pants are vastly superior to Cenarion.

[Last Exile]

I can go a full Majordomo fight being one of the 2 healers for the Majordomo tank without having to use a mana potion. I must be doing something right.

Besides, I don't have the time to run all the other 60 instances for those special bop drops. I only have time for MC and levelling my alt a little. Furthermore, nearly half the raid I'm in are healers. You don't honestly think there's competition for those kind of drops? At this point I just want my Cenarion Vest, Band of Sulfuras and Shard of the Scale. Then I can stop worrying about MC and Ony drops. Stormrage will come when it comes. Other people need them more than me.

Furthermore, +healing items generally go to priests first and the mana regen ones get targetted by casters as well as healers. It's not like I can just pick one and have it that easy. Shard of the Scale has never dropped for the guild, still waiting.

PS. What gear do you use, Raz? That is very nice mana regen and +healing. I take it u have 2 Mindtap Talismans? Or Rejuvenating Gem or Pendant of the Fallen Dragon?

And just quickly on my alt - Human rogue is now 38, she is so cool to use. Already got her epic mount fund up. She just hit reverred with Stormwind already.

[Red Angel]

7k mana, +350 healing, 39 mana every five seconds.

You focus way too much on Int. The Salamander pants are vastly superior to Cenarion.

Heh, those are pretty much my stats buffed, with 50 less +healing (only 4 epics and I don't even have a blue offhand for my Aurastone Hammer ). +healing is king

I can go a full Majordomo fight being one of the 2 healers for the Majordomo tank without having to use a mana potion. I must be doing something right.

Domo hits like a Holy Priest. +healing is better than massive int because you can use lower rank spells, thus saving mana for the same healing, but you also have the option of putting out your biggest spell with all that +healing tacked on to it.

[Leon-IH]

Druids have the most efficient healing in the game, if you CANT heal a tank in a longish fight without needing a potion your just plain horrible.

[Razola]

Druids have the most efficient healing in the game, if you CANT heal a tank in a longish fight without needing a potion your just plain horrible.

Regrowth is very inefficient. And it's the only quick heal we got.

[Last Exile]

Again, you make it sound like I get to choose what I can get.

I can't.

[Charizard04621]

Druids have the most efficient healing in the game, if you CANT heal a tank in a longish fight without needing a potion your just plain horrible.

They can't heal very quickly though =/ In a hard fight it's really difficult for druids to heal, I'd understand your frustration if a Priest couldn't heal well but poor Druids should not be expected to be main healers.

[Red Angel]

Regrowth is very inefficient. And it's the only quick heal we got.

Lower ranks of Healing Touch are quite good with +healing gear for keeping the tank topped up, so you shouldn't need much fast emergency healing. Plus that's what NS is for. If you don't have NS... well... main-healing tanks just got harder.

ps. Tanking Core Ragers is fun Maul crits are insane aggro.

Again, you make it sound like I get to choose what I can get.

I can't.

That's an issue with your guild then. If they expect you to heal but deny you access to the best healing gear...

[Razola]

A lot of my primo gear is from outside MC. Lei of the Lifegiver, the Trinket from Dire Maul, and Fang of Venoxis...primo stuff with gobs of +healing. Need to enchant my daggers though.

LE...don't you have a DKP system? Does your guild handpick every item you wear?

[Last Exile]

LDS system. Loot is based on no. of runs, items received in past, your current items and contribution to the guild.

Mindtap Talisman - No one in my guild cares about the 60 dungeons anymore except for MC so no chance.
Lei of the Lifegiver - AV grinding...ick.
Fang of Venoxis - Ain't that AV too?

[Red Angel]

LDS system. Loot is based on no. of runs, items received in past, your current items and contribution to the guild.

Mindtap Talisman - No one in my guild cares about the 60 dungeons anymore except for MC so no chance.
Lei of the Lifegiver - AV grinding...ick.
Fang of Venoxis - Ain't that AV too?

You can 2-man Kalendris in Dire Maul easily. Takes under 10 minutes.
AV does suck.
Fang is from ZG - pretty much just barely below Aurastone Hammer.

[Last Exile]

You can 2-man Kalendris in Dire Maul easily. Takes under 10 minutes.
AV does suck.
Fang is from ZG - pretty much just barely below Aurastone Hammer.

Again, I tell you, my guild no longer cares for Dire Maul. Everyone else who wanted Mindtap Talisman has it.

Hoever, I have my reasons for not getting it. By not getting it, I display a greater need for trinket upgrades, so hence I slightly improve my chances of getting Shard of the Scale.

And on ZG - it is damn hard to get a group that does a fair bit of ZG in my guild. And the drop rate of that thing is like 1-2%. It could take a year's worth of ZG raids to get that thing. I might as well try and win the raptor mount from the Bloodlord.

[Razola]

So your guild rewards loot based on how lazy you are?

[Last Exile]

Complete opposite. Long serving commitment gives you a better standing. However potential upgrade is also a factor.

Our head warrior just became the first person in our guild to get all of their Tier 1 set.

And on top of that, our druid raid officer scored piece #8 an hour later.

And then to top it all off, Golemagg dropped MY PRECIOUS VEST! ^^ The full set is mine!

[Leon-IH]

Complete opposite. Long serving commitment gives you a better standing. However potential upgrade is also a factor.

What Raz clearly meant is your guild bases things in part on current gear: therefore having mindtaps when you could get better might be counterproductive.

Also: why the fuck would you use full cenarion.



Had some cool fun in ZG today, dropped Venoxis (he's a JOKE) and also Bloodlord Mandokir (with 16 people lol).

I got my Armsplint for my shammy bracers from Venoxis and my mum got Mandokirs sting for her hunter (infact the loot was generally good).


EDIT: Looked at the new paladin talents, 10% mana as a tier one talent? WTF Blizzard, I want that..

[Last Exile]

Well what the hell else can druids get from MC besides that Salamander Pants for clothing?! You make it sound like we get to pick and choose!

And honestly, what is your problem, Leon! All you ever do is yell and bitch! Grow up.

[Charizard04621]

And honestly, what is your problem, Leon! All you ever do is yell and bitch! Grow up.

Sounds like what you do to shaman honestly. To tell you the truth most Horde absolutely despise Paladins, Akash and I have considered rerolling Night Elf just so we can have Paladins on our WSG teams. The thought of playing Alliance is not appealing however... Have always played Horde, would be a very very strange switch. I do want Shadowmeld though, a Warrior should not be able to jump a Rogue =P

I've seen a good druid destroy many good shaman over and over and over, they won sometimes but he won the majority because he's hot <3 He doesn't have any epic gear, they were all equal in that respect although the shaman might have had one or two pieces. Not sure about every single one of them. Anyway you have the druid class available to you, go and beat up those shamans silly, take your frustrations out in action =P Hmm unless you're resto specced...

[Last Exile]

Have I slammed shamans lately and did I do it to him just then? No, I didn't.

And Paladins have been in dire need of upgrades, they are the only class that haven't gotten any since the inception fo the game, so please don't complain.

[FTorchicX]

Love people, not hate... Come on, think like the hippies.

Anyways, my Druid is level 30 now. I'm looking forward to doing SM again, and perhaps getting morgraine's might (I'm Feral, who would have guessed that? =P). Kind of torn between my lvl 30 Drid on Spirestone, and my lvl 16 Warrior on Burning Blade. An old buddy just started playing again, so nowI'm considering working on a Warrior (since they're actually pretty cool if you give them some time), but there's my Druid, halfway to 60... quitting it just seems stupid. =/

[Leon-IH]

Well what the hell else can druids get from MC besides that Salamander Pants for clothing?! You make it sound like we get to pick and choose!

Finally won the Primal Hakkari Bindings in ZG last night. So as soon as I win Stormrage Helm in an Onyxia run, it's getting the Druid ZG enchant. +10 Stamina, +10 Intellect and +24 healing.

Something doesn't add up.. you have access to stormrage helm by the sounds of things, that post was a while back so you'd need to be fairly unlucky NOT to have the helm by now (my understanding is 2x helms per run, and I'd assume you run on a weekly basis).

Also, paladins do not need a buff: roll a class that cant heal and isn't easy mode (read; Hunter) and try killing paladins 1v1 at 60 (blue gear vs blue gear), I found them easy on my shammy but they're hell for warriors (who are notably getting NERFED AGAIN).

About me being whiny: look at your posts about the horde guilds on blackrock, shamans, and your 'OMG I CANT CHOOSE WHAT LEWTS I GET' bullshit.

[Last Exile]

Okay, sounds like there's been a bit of a misunderstanding on both sides, Leon.

I'll clear up a few things.


1. For 10 runs, the ones that dropped were 10 Mage, 7 Warlock and 3 Paladin.
2. The Stormrage Helm has only dropped 2 times over the 6 months I've been in Onyxia. They've gone to people with less loot than me. And Shard of the Scale has never dropped so I'm still waiting on that.
3. It's Christmas/Holidays so organising raids has been much harder
4. I have more loot than any other druid, meaning if they want the helm, it ain't mine. I have 5 other druids to go through at elast at the moment.
5. Not many people like doing ZG so I can't get stuff there.
6. BWL is a distant dream at the moment. If it was a 20 person boss like Arlokk, we'd beat it. But too many people are stuffing around and mess it up to make it possible at 40.
7. 90% of bosses we kill in our guild always drop either mage or warlock lot. However, MC has suddenly become druid heaven for our guild. Ony is anything but though.

And yes, I did whine about shamans and whatnot in the past. I don't anymore. Every class has strengths and weaknesses. I live with it.

Got my Rogue to Level 40 last week. They're very fun to use.

[Razola]

And Paladins have been in dire need of upgrades, they are the only class that haven't gotten any since the inception fo the game, so please don't complain.

Hi there.

[Yero Thropp]

Have I mentioned how ecstatic I am about this patch?????????????? :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

[Leon-IH]

Have I mentioned how ecstatic I am about this patch?????????????? :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

Here is the best take I could find on the patch; http://www.worldofwar.net/articles/pig14.php

Interpret it as a whinge, but I laughed alot (especially at the a warrior killed a mage parts, as I play my warrior quite a bit in pvp).

[Razola]

Here is the best take I could find on the patch; http://www.worldofwar.net/articles/pig14.php

Interpret it as a whinge, but I laughed alot (especially at the a warrior killed a mage parts, as I play my warrior quite a bit in pvp).

Thanks for wasting my time. OHSHITENRAGEGOTNERFEDTHEYHATEWARRIORS.

Warriors have been getting a shitload of buffs forever now.

[Leon-IH]

Thanks for wasting my time. OHSHITENRAGEGOTNERFEDTHEYHATEWARRIORS.

Warriors have been getting a shitload of buffs forever now.

Ahh, I'm sure your refering to the fact in the post patch environment a warrior with an OEB will be as good as a war with an Arcanite Reaper two patches ago (enraged warrior this is).

Thank you for your intelligence mr druid, the class that didnt get buffed to oblivion a few patches ago (yes, better armor than a protwarrior and self healing apparently isnt a buff at all).

[Yero Thropp]

I once saw a 60 paladin charge a 52 rogue, a 54 shaman and 60 mage with an orange hammer. He didn't kill any of them. A 60 warrior charged the same group later, and managed to kill the mage and the shaman before dying.

Warriors are a bi$^& to kill at 60. They shouldn't be complaining. If they want to know what the Paladins are complaining about, just look at the Paladin forums on the World of Warcraft forums. Every single thread has complaints.

I have my complaints about this patch, but I'm sure those problems will be fixed in the next patch, so I'm not worried.

[Leon-IH]

Warriors are a bi$^& to kill at 60 in BWL GEAR.

Edited for you, just so it wasnt a load of crap.

[FTorchicX]

I have said it before and I'll say it again: Warriors are BEASTS. Not impossible to kill, but they sure as hell are tough. No problem though, that's why my alt is a Warrior (Troll, to stand out amongst the Tauren and Orc Warriors).

Just finished the Test of Skulls quests, and am ready to go and wrap it up (once I go and find Rexxar again). Ten Storms Helmet, here I come (well not really, since I have Earthfury Helmet I'll probably be passing so the less fortunate Shamans can get it).

Oh by the way, any suggestion on good fire resistance gear for a Shaman? Our guild is at Rag, and we have gotten him down to 65% so far. Problem is, my FR is so low that he blows the shit out of me with his knockback.

[Leon-IH]

Shaman FR gear? you only need about 100 FR as a healer from my understanding (remember to drop fire resistance totem also hehe).

Lord Incendius in BRD can actually drop some +10FR bracers WITH STATS of each different armour type so thats 10, Elder Magus Pendant from Magister in DM West has another 10 (once again with nice stats), Fiery Chain Girdle and Shoulders can be made by armorsmiths with Thorium Brotherhood Rep (and if your guild doesn't have one, or know one, you can kiss any chance of killing rag goodbye) and between them give +49 FR and some helpful stats.

Thats 69 FR without crippling your stats, and once you tack on a few earthfury parts (belt - which I wouldn't use over fiery chain if you need alot of FR, gloves, helm and chest) your looking at about 95.

Besides the more attainable items theres Fireproof Cloak from domo, Draconian Deflector from UBRS (I put this as more difficult to get because you really shouldn't take it over a warrior), Finkles Lava Dredger (yet another domo drop), various rings with FR (they're pretty costly though), and also the argent dawn shoulder enchants and resist cloak enchants.

Thats about the easiest way to get 100FR without gimping yourself.

[FTorchicX]

Yeah, I was thinking of getting the drac deflector but with my guild, or with a group that has warriors who dont need it.

Alright, so far, I can get 108 FR fully buffed. After I get the Elder Magus Pendant (which was what I was just trying to get in DM West, but then Skarr spawned and we forgot all about it :p).

Yeah, speaking of the Fireproof Cloak, it dropped off of Domo the last time we were in MC. Although I was tempted to roll, I decided to pass.. perhaps I shouldn't have. =P Oh well, that's what I get for being nice.

Thanks for the help. Im sure that with all of that stuff, I can easily meet the expectations for Ragnaros.

[Charizard04621]

I once saw a 60 paladin charge a 52 rogue, a 54 shaman and 60 mage with an orange hammer. He didn't kill any of them. A 60 warrior charged the same group later, and managed to kill the mage and the shaman before dying.

Warriors are a bi$^& to kill at 60. They shouldn't be complaining. If they want to know what the Paladins are complaining about, just look at the Paladin forums on the World of Warcraft forums. Every single thread has complaints.

I have my complaints about this patch, but I'm sure those problems will be fixed in the next patch, so I'm not worried.

If I had a choice between a Paladin and a Warrior in WSG when I wanted to make people cry, I would pick a Paladin.

They may need a little more DPS, enough to kill mobs solo, but you should NOT have an unkillable class that is able to kill somebody without turning invincible or healing. That would make an unkillable killing machine. Yay? At least Shadow Priests are cloth wearers. /sweatdrop at a Plate equipped healer...

If you're so concerned about dealing damage, roll a damage class, don't complain about Paladins not being able to do dps. That's not their job.

[Last Exile]

I've been forced to take an indefinite leave of absence from World of Warcraft as of December 31. I'll be rejoining the game once I can afford to play/have my life sorted out.

As for Warriors, don't complain. They're meant to be tanks/damage. Kite them. Druids keep them in roots. Hunters can use their traps, Concussive Shot, Scatter Shot, Wing Clip and beserk pet mode. Mages, just keep them in Frost Novas and dps the hell out of them and poly them in between. Priests and Warlocks, just dot them and do constant fears. Rogues, stun them as much as possible and do your damage combos. Paladins, meh, easy for them, just heal and outlast them. Imagine it's the same deal for Shamans.

And yes, BWL gear is annoying, but those players are still beatable. I managed to beat one of the main warriors from the top Horde guild on Blackrock 1v1 in Arathi Basin. I simply kited him for 90 seconds. Kept him in Entangling Roots as much as possible, kept Moonfire on him and did Wrath when I could. He had almost pure Wrath. I had just 3 Cenarions at the time. I caned him, simply because I played the strategy right.

It takes practice. You can beat any class if you play it right.

[Leon-IH]

Just some numbers to back up my statement about warriors getting nerfed.

This is the difference between 1.6 and 1.9 for an enraged ms build.

Arcanite Reaper in 1.6:
Mod. attack power: 1062
Speed: 3.8
Base DPS: 53.8
Mod DPS: 129.65 (base dps+ap/14)
Avg. hit: 492.69 (mod dps*attack speed)
MS hit: 652.69 (avg hit+ms)
Enraged MS crit: 1827.55 (ms hit*1,4*2)
(with impale: 2193)

Rank 14 weapon in 1.9:
Mod. attack power: 1052
Speed: 3.3 (normalized in 1.8)
Base DPS: 77.4
Mod DPS: 152.54 (base dps+ap/14)
Avg. hit: 503.39 (mod dps*attack speed)
MS hit: 663.39 (avg hit+ms)
Enraged MS crit: 1658.47 (ms hit*1,25*2)
(with impale: 1990)


Buffed my left nut.

[Yero Thropp]

If you're so concerned about dealing damage, roll a damage class, don't complain about Paladins not being able to do dps. That's not their job.

!! Whoa, hang on a sec, I didn't complain about Paladins not doing dps. In fact, I get pissed every time I hear a Paladin crying out for more dps, and I tell them off for it. I understand where you're coming from, though, cause I've heard COUNTLESS Paladins asking for more dps, so I know why you would assume that's what I'm complaining about.

Let me explain what my complaints are. Every class has options. Druids can do very efficient healing with the Resto tree, or go rogue form in Feral. Priests can either dish out the healing, or dish out the shadow damage. Warlocks can give themself tons of defense/health with Demonology, or do tons of damage with Destruction tree. You see, all classes have options.

Now, everyone knows that if you heal, you are going to be a healer end-game. Druid, Shaman, whatever, you will heal. So, naturally, the Paladins have a decent holy tree. What most Palys did was go the Retribution tree in order to get Blessing of Kings, then switched to Holy once they hit 60. This, of course, was pre-1.9.

One of the Paladin's best skills was Divine Favor. "When activated, it gives your next Flash of Light or Holy Light spell a 100% critical effect chance." Before 1.9, it also gave you back all of the mana that you used for that Holy Light or Flash of Light spell. Another thing we absolutely adored was the Improved Blessing of Wisdom, increasing the effect by 20%. The thing is, pre-1.9 those talents were very easy to get to. Divine Favor, I believe you only needed 10 talent points. Improved BoW was even easier.

Here's what us Paladin's did; we majored in the Retribution tree, putting in enough talent points to get to the final spell, Blessing of Kings. Then we minored in Holy, getting Divine Favor and Improved Blessing of Wisdom. If we didn't want Blessing of Kings, then we went Protection tree to help us pvp, and again, minored in Holy.

You see? We had options. If we wanted to be an annoying pvper, we majored in Protection for higher defense. Retribution tree gave us crit abilities, higher attack power, etc. Give us a few good healing abilities, including Imp. BoW, and we're good to stay alive forever. I have to admit, the Protection tree and the Retribution tree were quite similar, but there was a difference large enough to matter between the two.

Take a look at the spells that I mentioned above, then look at the new Paladin trees. Notice anything that could practically destroy how Paladin's play?

Divine Favor and Improved Blessing of Wisdom were moved FAR down the Holy tree. Even Spiritual Focus, which gave us a 70% chance not to lose healing casting time while getting hit, was moved down. Basically, all of our good healing abilities were moved DOWN. Now, our first five points in the Holy tree must be placed to give us either more mana, or more strength (wtf? strength in the holy tree?)

That's not all. Most Paladins didn't go Protection tree because they liked the crits that the Retribution tree gave, plus the Parry ability, and finally the Blessing of Kings Retribution gave. Well, 1.9 destroys the Retribution tree by moving Blessing of Kings OUT of the Retribution tree and putting it near the top of the Protection tree. Holy Shield, which was an amazing Paladin skill in the Protection tree, is now the final spell to get to.

So, here's what 1.9 did to our trees. The Retribution tree is now for the Paladin who wants to hit hard. The Holy tree hasn't changed, just moved some stuff around, and the Protection tree seriously got tempting. You're sitting there saying, so what? Now Paladins have options. If they want to tank, they can go Retribution. If they want to heal, go Holy. If you want to do nicely with pvp (Blessing of Kings, Holy Shield, higher defense, etc.) go Protection tree. You have options now, right?

WRONG.

Charizard, you are abosolutely right when you say the role of the Paladin is not to do dps. I sincerely LOVE how we have a tree that can dps now (Retribution,) but there are two things wrong. One, even with all of the buffs a Paladin puts on for dps in the Ret tree, a Paladin STILL isn't doing nearly as much damage as a warrior, or a druid in bear form, or hunter... anything. If Priests can do shadow damage better than a Warlock or a Mage, totally buffed out on the Shadow tree, I want to be able to hit like a hunter if I'm totally buffed in my ret tree. Guess what? We don't. Not even close.

If anyone says, "So what, you're not supposed to," to this comment, you're proving my point down below. Keep reading.

Putting Blessing of Kings in the Protection tree makes the Protection tree wantable. In fact, putting it near the top of the tree was a good idea, because now someone could go Ret major and still get Blessing of Kings if they go Protection tree minor. Two for one, right?

*cough* Don't forget, Paladin's are healers too. If we major in Retribution and DON'T minor in Holy, two things happen; first, our healing sucks and eats up our mana, and second, we don't dps very well anyway, so to keep up with the other classes we need to be switching seals, blessings, shields... Three healing spells, two shields, and three seals later, we are out of mana. That's what, thirty seconds? Not even enough time for my Hammer of Justice to cooldown (if I have the mana to get it off in the first place.)

Paladins likED Retribution tree because it gave us at least some damage dealing effects. And yes, we DO need to do damage; we only have so much mana. Like Last Exile said, "Paladins, meh, easy for them, just heal and outlast them." People look at the Paladin's spells and go, omg they are tremendous, and I have to agree. Here's the catch; to use three shields, heal four times, and Hammer of Justice twice takes up half of my mana. I still have blessings to worry about, plus seals, judgement, seal again, change seal if needed...

So, that's where Divine Favor comes in (giving us a critted heal and costing no mana,) along with Improved BoW. But guess what? WE DON'T HAVE IT ANYMORE. That's right, it's stuck at the bottom of the Holy tree, taunting us.

What do we do? We are stuck; we'd like the Ret tree's dps, but that means sacrificing our healing and draining our mana. Oh, wait, we STILL do crap dps, even with the Ret tree's buffs, so why go that way? Why not go Protection tree and piss people off with even higher defense?

Oh yeah, higher defense means even LONGER battles, which means we need even MORE mana (reminder: we don't have Imp. BoW anymore, thanks to 1.9.)

Are you getting what I'm saying?

Paladin's are being forced to go Holy. It's that simple. The Holy tree had what we needed near the top until we hit 60 before 1.9. Now, it's been pounded down the tree, so if we want it, we have to go Holy. Soooooo...

Before you hit 60, you are going Holy tree. Once you hit 60, you are still Holy. End-game, you are still healing in raids.

PALADINS ARE OFFICIALLY PRIESTS IN PLATE, AS OF 1.9.

Please argue this, because I sincerely want to be wrong.

[Leon-IH]

Basically, all of our good healing abilities were moved DOWN. Now, our first five points in the Holy tree must be placed to give us either more mana, or more strength.

WTF good abilities further down on a talent tree? what an OUTRAGE!!

Every class has abilities that don't seem to fit with the tree at some point on the tree; the stun/knockout effect talent on the warrior prot tree looks like a pvp talent to me, and WTF is the shaman +% mana talent doing on the enhancement (melee) tree?

Infact; looking at my warrior tree I can tell you for a fact there are some talents on a particular tree that don't belong.

Parry, a defensive talent in on the arms tree.
Improved Disarm, a talent on the protection tree totally useless on raid mobs but l33t in war vs war pvp.


See where I'm heading - every talent tree has things that don't belong.

Paladins have always been an endurance/healing class.

To gain DPS or Armor EVERY healer sacrifices healing power - shamans lose NS if they want dps, priests lose disc talents for shadow ones, druids lose heal power to go feral. So what!

[Yero Thropp]

See, that's exactly my point. Everyone says that Paladins are healers ONLY. I hate that. Priests have the option to become shadow, but they lose good healing options. With 1.9, Paladin's can get better dps, but not only do we lose our good healing options (which should happen anyway, so that's not a complaint,) but the dps the Ret tree gives is horrid. Holy is our only option.

There's something else I forgot to mention; as we all know, it's very hard for a Paladin to kill things. Killing things is how we level. That's why Paladins always went Ret tree, so that they could kill things better, up until end game, where we would go Holy. But see, most Paladins that went Ret tree minored in Holy in order to get the Divine Favor and Improved BoW. This helped us grind, because we didn't have a fear of going through mana like water.

Heals, Seals, Judgement, Hammer of Justice, Shields, Blessings... all of that combined takes up a TON of mana. We don't kill things without mana.

So, in conclusion, I understand what you are saying when you say:

Leon-IH

To gain DPS or Armor EVERY healer sacrifices healing power.

I understand that since our Ret tree's dps was buffed, we lost healing power... but the problem is the dps still sucks, and now we have no way of getting to the Imp. BoW or Divine Favor. Plus, all of the decent dps talents are halfway down the Ret tree, so I wouldn't even start gaining dps until I hit lvl 30, probably maxed at 45 or so, but then what tree do I go? I've maxed dps, should I minor in the Protection tree? Because the Holy tree isn't helping.

Let me repeat what my main complaint is: WE DON'T HAVE OPTIONS. If we are being given the Ret tree to dps, I want to do decent dps if I major in Retribution! They buffed the Ret tree all right, but they switched everything around in the Holy tree, giving us two choices; take the good tree or the bad tree. The Holy tree has always been good, that's why nothing was really added or taken away. I want a choice between a good tree and a good tree.