BTPoke's Blissful Tempora Pizzeria

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

Blademaster, now you are two teeth more stupid... that doesn't count much though, with your brilliance.

Also, beaten by MeLoVeGhOsTs.... again... poor me.

[Ash0011]

I think the most badly taken pokemon is darkari but thats just the movie

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

You're talking inside the movie plot, right?

[Ash0011]

yes

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

In my opinion the most badly taken Pokemon is the Oddish in my avatar

[Ash0011]

or magikarp

[Ayeun]

I move to have the move Magic coat banned. The way that Chaos is using it in a sub is efectivly saying - "Taunt the motherfucker, but don't waste a move on taunt."

Since only one move can go through Magic coat, I think the move needs adjusting or outrite banning.

Magic Coat -PSY- These moves are all bounced back to the user.
All moves that induce status as their only effect
All moves that do no damage but alter the target's stats (including Flatter and Swagger), except Defog and Memento
Attract, Block, Gastro Acid, Leech Seed, Mean Look, Spider Web and Worry Seed
Fatigue: Moderate
Accuracy: Excellent

Just seems the way Chaos uses it is very VERY unfair. He gets a free taunt while he uses his 'standard' sub:

Sub: Magic Coat anything Magic-Coat-able, Snatch anything Snatch-able.

Just my 2 cents

[Oslo]

If you think Magic Coat is broken, why not just list it as a banned move at the start of your battles?

It's not fair to rag specifically on Chaos, either. A lot of people, myself included, use Magic Coat subs.

[chaos_redefined]

DL has listed a set of moves that avoid magic coat and are not snatch-able, magic-coat-able or damaging. There are others from the top of my head. Spikes and Toxic Spikes, for example. Attract is a rather noteworthy exception, which can allow you to try for it on future moves.

Furthermore, I question you raising me specifically. Oslo just stated he used it himself. I know DL have used such a sub. CEB was the one who brought such a maneuver to my attention.

Finally, there is an ability that Magic Coat's without using a move every round. In addition to synchronize and shed skin. All 3 of those make your pokemon psuedo-taunted. Should any of those be banned? If so, does this mean we should ban Espeon (who's only available abilities are Magic Coat and Synchronize)?

Your claim is similar to several instances in the tournament environment of M:tG. Cards proved to be effective, and people started calling for bans. From what I gather, banned moves for power reasons are a recent trend, and I have to agree with the earlier members: Just coz you don't like it doesn't mean you should force that on everyone around you. (Even the limitations on rest/pain split in your gym were avoided in earlier gyms. I think Blade and Weas had limitations on earthquake and stuff like that because the arena called for them. Other than that, power was not a reason to limit a move.)

[Ayeun]

Im not saying that the move is broke, but it possibly came across that way...

I am just saying that using it in THAT sub (which as was pointed out, a LOT of people do), is EFFECTIVELY using the move 'taunt', without wasting an attack slot to do so.

[chaos_redefined]

Sending out Espeon or any other pokemon with Magic Bounce/Shed Skin/Synchronize does the same thing. Shed Skin and Synchronize are an improvement, but still do the same thing. I repeat, are you up for banning those abilities, and, by extention, Espeon?

[DarkestLight]

o.O I don't think you have a problem with Magic Coat, Ayeun. I essentially think you have a problem with trying to devise counters for it. Memento, Spikes and Toxic Spikes, and any move that delivers an ailment while causing damage all bypass it :/

I left out entry hazards because I realized that MC was kinda broken, so you still have your Stealth Rock & Spike combos to annoy folk with.

[Ayeun]

I am just saying with the way that everyone subs it like that, its just saying 'Fuck the rules, I am taunting and still getting in 3 attacks!'

[DarkestLight]

How are they taunting. You aren't forced to attack. You CAN attack, or teleport, or ...alot of ways. I'm not gonna divulge strategy whilst battling him right now lol. I gotta test it out on him XD

[Ash0011]

mayby say it isn't allowed as a sub so then it would only be good when attacking second

[chaos_redefined]

Oddly enough, my planned gym will inadvertently ban the use of it, but that's just to make the refs head not hurt too hard. And today, I realized that I will have something else to add to the list of things you can't do to avoid circularity issues. Arena's that change the rules enough are... fun.

And DL has already said that it isn't a problem. It's a case of someone whining coz she's unable to think outside the box enough to develop counter-strategies.

[DarkestLight]

<.<...No limiting Pokemon that can enter the Gym

[Ayeun]

Explain to me how its NOT a cheep way to taunt and get 3 attacks then? Not every pokemon gets teleport, or other ways to counter. When that sub goes up, it becomes attack, or I throw shit back at you which means you were better off attacking anyway.

Its a fucking cheap way to taunt and get 3 moves and you all know it.

[chaos_redefined]

@DL: It's not a banned pokemon. It's just certain things that no longer work. Coz if they do, things get potentially confusing.

@Ayeun: Not every pokemon gets X, where X is any move. X can be teleport, taunt, magic coat, snatch, mirror coat, counter, snore, sleep talk (Even if Ditto and magikarp are the only exceptions I can come up with for the latter off the top of my head).

And how is Synchronize/Magic Bounce/Shed skin not a free-taunt-no-action-cost? If they are not, should we ban Espeon?

[Ayeun]

For the last time, NO. DON'T FUCKING BAN ESPEON. Coz you can NEGATE the ability (mummy, worry seed, ect). But you CAN'T negate Magic Coat. You can TRY to get a move with a status tagged on it through, but those are NEVER a 100% chance. You can't LEER or SAND ATTACK while magic coat is there, coz it fires it back. You cant THUNDERWAVE or SLEEP POWDER while it is there, coz it fires it back. WHILE THAT SUB is there, YOU ARE SAYING "I have taunted, but I also get 3 attacks this turn, and you can break that taunt, but it will FUCK YOU UP."

Now, if MAGIC COAT had a chance to fail if used multiple times, like protect does, or cost a HIGH amount of endurance, then sure, i would say sub to your hearts content. But it doesn't, and you can use it every turn without fail. SO THAT IS WHERE MY FUCKING ISSUE WITH IT IS.

And another thing, I am NOT a winning little bitch who cant figure out a way around it. I SAID THAT TO YOU ON FUCKING MSN. As I said like 100 times, my issue here is that you get to taunt (which under NORMAL conditions takes up an attack slot) and then still get 3 full attacks. THAT IS THE ISSUE HERE.

[chaos_redefined]

I can think of at least one way to get through magic coat. Not gonna mention it coz DL is reading this, and Oslo as well, and I've gotta work my way through both of their gyms.

[Ayeun]

Oh hey look its Magic coat and the only thing that goes through it is fucking teeter dance.

Thats right... It fucks up entry hazards!

Magic Coat can also reflect entry hazards and moves like Taunt and Torment. Magic Coat reflects the same moves that Magic Bounce does.

WOOOOOOOP WOOOOP WOOOP WOOP WOOP

[chaos_redefined]

Umm... DL listed a bunch of moves that get through it. And I'm apparently really really clever, coz I can see a way of beating it permanently. In addition to a way of mocking it out of existence.

[Ayeun]

DL made the list prior to G5, and if he has shared it with anyone, i would love to know where.

Since it was changed in G5 to be a 'i win' card, it affects everything.

Where is your god now?

[chaos_redefined]

And the movelist still stands. What's your point?

And, for a rather humorous way of beating it... Get a Lickilicky with Own Tempo. Once they use "sub: Magic Coat anything magic coatable", you use "Swagger x3". Then you proceed to beat face with your attack+6. That's gonna hurt a lot of stuff. This isn't the only way to do it, but it's a fun one.

Here is your god:

[DarkestLight]

I made the list after G5 :/

[DarkestLight]

Hence why Taunt is on there...cause Taunt wasnt MC'able in G4

[DarkestLight]

Teeter Dance is also affected by G5. Which is why I say focus on the ASB movelist so its not a win-all move :/

[DarkestLight]

Chaos's way just made me laugh. XD Hard. I wanna do that now. And I have a Lickylicky too. I'ma save that. But really Ay, As difficult as it may be, you can also Imprison Mirror Coat :/ You can combo a status move with a priority move...so it catches him off guard...yeah, lotta ways..

[chaos_redefined]

I presented a hilarious way of beating it, that shouldn't be usable by any of your pokemon, nor any of Oslo's pokemon. (Which is why it's so specific, coz I had to cut out two teams of pokemon so that neither of you did it to me in our gym matches)

But yeah. There are ways of beating it that will leave the magic-coat-user looking rather silly.

[DarkestLight]

O.o Its usable from one of mine., MWAHAHAH. Would take a bit of finagling, but I could do it. But I'm not the type to just do that immediately. Like I said. I'll wait.
Edit: Not in the same exact manner. Theory works.

[Ash0011]

I thought of another I think what about the poison absorption ability + toxic

oh and antagonist

[chaos_redefined]

O.o Its usable from one of mine., MWAHAHAH. Would take a bit of finagling, but I could do it. But I'm not the type to just do that immediately. Like I said. I'll wait.
Edit: Not in the same exact manner. Theory works.

In your gym team? That's all I was looking at. And yeah, poison absorption and toxic works as well. Not quite as brutal as the stagger, doesn't waste their full round of actions, and only gives you more hp's, rather than a massive dent in theirs.

In any case, this was the only one I could find that couldn't be used by any of DL's pokemon and any of Oslo's pokemon. And clearly I failed at that. So... yeah. It's quite possible.

[Blademaster]

No banning moves from ASB. List them as banned in the match or something. No other moves have ever been universally banned; I see no reason to start now.

I also don't see how you get off 3 attacks AND 'Taunt' when you have to use a slot on Magic Coat anyway, which thus wastes an attack slot on Magic Coat.

[chaos_redefined]

The implication is that "Sub: Magic Coat any move that can be affected by Magic Coat and Snatch any move that can be affected by Snatch" forces them to only attack. This has been demonstrated to be flawed, so the point is no longer valid. Now people are having a laugh at hilarious ways of beating it. e.g. Own Tempo, Swaggerx3. Poison Absorption, Toxic.

[Greyfox]

Rather than banning attacks outright, you could instead choose to ban substitutions at the start of battle. Notwithstanding, if you end up relying too much on them, your pokemon are going to get confused and use the wrong attack by mistake.

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

They should teach Pokemon battling at school.

[MeLoVeGhOsTs]

Rather than banning attacks outright, you could instead choose to ban substitutions at the start of battle. Notwithstanding, if you end up relying too much on them, your pokemon are going to get confused and use the wrong attack by mistake.

Aye sir. I dun really like subs actually, especially since there's no real ruling on them. You just kinda be nice and don't oversub, or you don't care and you do. I don't mean there has to be a ruling on it, no way, but yeah playing without subs is kinda more fun (to me personally). To each his own.

Or maybe refs could think more like Grey here and make pokemon confused from too many subs, or unable to attack or har har.

It's been ages since I wrote here, yay! Needs a new name, since I don't like the dullness of this place. Yes I know I'm crazy, annoying and a fucking stud, but haters gonna hate

*ninja-smoke*

[Oslo]

The battle threads section has two pages again! We were sitting at, what, nine or ten active battles just a month or two ago?

Rejoice!

[MeLoVeGhOsTs]

Cuz I'm that awesome

What? Every forum needs an arrogant prick, and since Blade is in half-retirement I thought I'd give it a try

(I'm hoping the emoticons do the trick)