2012 U.S. Presidential Election

[Roy Karrde]

Dude I just do this for fun, a reliever, kind of a way to relax and have fun. I think that should be the view of everyone in this thread.

[Gavin Luper]

I was just making a comment, dudes. Not saying it needs to stop. Just that it's one of longest debates I've seen in misc in a long time.

[RedStarWarrior]

Obama is going to be reelected because down with whitey.

I don't care about laws, though the majority of praise and blame should go to Congress, not the President.

[Dark Sage]

In lighter news...

The Sarasota GOP will name Donald Trump "Statesman of the Year" a day before and a stone's throw away from the Republican National Convention in Tampa.

According to Sarasota GOP chairman Joe Gruters, Trump is a "wise, skillful and respectful political leader," pointing a poll that put Trump in a dead heat in a hypothetical matchup with Mr. Obama. (Here's the poll. Note that it's over a year old, and includes many names that dropped out months ago: http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...east-poll.html)

I at first thought this was a joke. Then I found out that they were serious. And I thought that the Sarasota GOP had lost their minds.

[Dark Sage]

In more news...

Romney made a speech in front of the NAACP Conference today...

His vow to repeal Obamacare went over very badly with them. It makes me wonder just what in the world he was thinking.

[Roy Karrde]

What he was thinking? Instant Credibility with the Right and Center.

The Center will be pleased to see that Romney went to the convention at all, in the face of overt hostility, plus the NAACP audience comes across as a bit immature. The Right has doubted Romney’s commitment to repealing ObamaCare at times, but this shows that Romney is willing to repeat that pledge anywhere, even when it’s guaranteed to turn the audience against him.

Romney went into the lion's den today, knowing it will be a hostile audience and acted Presidential by doing it. When will Obama stand infront of a unfriendly audience?

[Dark Sage]

Strange, Roy, when a candidate - who will go nameless - spoke out against Social Security in a speech he made in a nursing home, people called him an idiot.

Basically, that's the same thing that Romney did. He pushed an idea that his audience was clearly opposed to.

So all of a sudden he's smart, and the first guy who made this mistake is an idiot?

[Roy Karrde]

Strange, Roy, when a candidate - who will go nameless - spoke out against Social Security in a speech he made in a nursing home, people called him an idiot.

Basically, that's the same thing that Romney did. He pushed an idea that his audience was clearly opposed to.

So all of a sudden he's smart, and the first guy who made this mistake is an idiot?

What I am saying is that it gives him credibility, especially in the face of a hostile and immature crowd to go out there and speak the truth. He could easily have skipped over Obamacare, but then you would have the left calling him out for that. Instead he spoke the truth, and that gives him credibility as a President, something any candidate needs.

May I ask when President Obama plans to speak at say the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, or say Focus on the Family, or maybe Americans for Prosperity?

[Dark Sage]

May I ask when President Obama plans to speak at say the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, or say Focus on the Family, or maybe Americans for Prosperity?

I have no idea, he doesn't share his schedule with people like me.

If you were President, would you honestly share yours?

Dumb question there, Roy.

Edit: By the way, if he had skipped Obamacare, as you say, I likely would never have mentioned the speech to the NAACP at all. I would have found it unremarkable, and would have thought it unworthy of mentioning.

Like most of his speeches.

[Roy Karrde]

I have no idea, he doesn't share his schedule with people like me.

If you were President, would you honestly share yours?

Dumb question there, Roy.

Just a question, if Romney can go to a hostile crowd and speak the truth of his plans, why can't Obama? You would expect a President to be willing to lead from wherever, not just from where he is comfortable.

Edit: By the way, if he had skipped Obamacare, as you say, I likely would never have mentioned the speech to the NAACP at all. I would have found it unremarkable, and would have thought it unworthy of mentioning.

Like most of his speeches.

YOU may have, but Daily Kos, and the rest of the left probably would not have.

By the way, Romney got a large amount of applause for being willing to defend Traditional Marriage, and for promoting Charter Schools, two things Obama is against.

It is a shame about Charter Schools too, inner city kids deserve a President that actually give a damn about them.

[mattbcl]

After reading bits and pieces of this thread, as well as any number of op-eds that one could find on either side of the aisle, I've come to the conclusion that any modern American president must have done this at least once in the Oval Office.



If you didn't even so much as crack a smile after seeing that, I really honestly believe you need to lighten up. And no, I'm not "just sayin'."

[Bear]

If I had a dollar for every strawman put forth in this topic, I'd have enough money to run for President...

[Dark Sage]

I have some more facts to add to my last post...

According some bean-counters, the GOP's efforts to repeal the Affordable Health Care Act have, thus far, cost taxpayers $50 million. Also, they have taken up, combined, two full work weeks of Congress's time.

If I was a member of the board of directors for say, a bank, and had wasted that percentage of the budget and two full weeks on a project that I knew was only symbolic and had no chance of succeeding, I'm certain that the CEO would blow a major fuse and that I'd be looking for a new job.

[Roy Karrde]

I have some more facts to add to my last post...

According some bean-counters, the GOP's efforts to repeal the Affordable Health Care Act have, thus far, cost taxpayers $50 million. Also, they have taken up, combined, two full work weeks of Congress's time.

If I was a member of the board of directors for say, a bank, and had wasted that percentage of the budget and two full weeks on a project that I knew was only symbolic and had no chance of succeeding, I'm certain that the CEO would blow a major fuse and that I'd be looking for a new job.

And you get these facts from what non biased source?

And seeing how much it will A: Cost the tax payers by having it still in place, and B: The year the Democrats spent passing this monstrosity, the Republicans are still doing pretty good.

By the way if anyone has a problem with it being me vs Dark Sage, they can join in.

[Dark Sage]

And you get these facts from what non biased source?

CBS news.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_16...ime/?tag=stack

There you go.

[Roy Karrde]

CBS news.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_16...ime/?tag=stack

There you go.

And where does the $50 million come into play?

[Bear]

itt: 44 pages of hard evidence supporting my choice to never, ever engage in political discussions.

You know what would be great? If the two of you actually spent a week researching your OPPONENT'S point of view, and actually making an effort to see where they come from. All I see is petty bickering and a general inability to be tolerant of opposing points of view.

[Dark Sage]

itt: 44 pages of hard evidence supporting my choice to never, ever engage in political discussions.

You know what would be great? If the two of you actually spent a week researching your OPPONENT'S point of view, and actually making an effort to see where they come from. All I see is petty bickering and a general inability to be tolerant of opposing points of view.

I've actually taken many political science classes in college, Bear. It may not be my major, but I know how the GOP works.

[Roy Karrde]

I just do it for fun xD

[ChobiChibi]

It would be more fun to poke your eye out with a fork than to engage in this topic.

Politics and religion. Two debates just not worth taking the time over XP

[Blademaster]

Politics and religion. Two debates just not worth taking the time over XP

We could debate both.

At the same time.

[MeLoVeGhOsTs]

this thread reminds of politics!

[Perfect Chaos]

I always tell people that I hate politics and I can never bother to figure out what exactly every party stands for. Then they just tell me that I'm too ignorant or too stupid to understand how the system(s) work.

Well if ignorance is bliss, then I'm pretty damn happy to be a complete moron when it comes to politics.

My personal opinion is that all parties have two agendas...one they claim to stand upon in order to gain the peoples' support...and a second agenda containing all the ideas they actually want to get done while they're in power to furthur their own ends. Parties don't give a damn what the people want once they reach that pinnacle point of power because they don't need anything else from anyone at that point

Like all everyone else said, all I see are 44 pages of convuluted bullcrap that just helped to increase Roy and DS's post count.

Feel free to prove me wrong. Just know in advance I probably won't really care too much even if you did.

[Jeff]

God is running as a third party candidate. Discuss.

[Roy Karrde]

Anti War, Anti Abortion, Anti Death Penalty, Anti Gay Marriage. His positions turn off both the right and the left! He doesn't have a chance!

[Dark Sage]

Pro Peace.

Pro Tolerance.

Anti Hatred.

I would vote Him.

[Leon-IH]

Anti War, Anti Abortion, Anti Death Penalty, Anti Gay Marriage. His positions turn off both the right and the left! He doesn't have a chance!

That depends on if it's old Testament god or new Testament god.

Old Testament god seemed pretty pro-war, pro-death penalty to me.

[Roy Karrde]

But the dude has a track record of killing the first born!

[Dark Sage]

You know, Roy, I do have a Bible, and I read it a lot...

If you read the New Testament from front to back, you'd see that Jesus never once condemns homosexuals, or those who performs abortions... He doesn't condemn anyone, for that matter.

A group of hypocrites came to him with a woman who was to be stoned for adultery, and thought to tempt him into passing judgment so that they could accuse him. But he instead wrote on the ground, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." He said that because HE was the only one without sin that was present, and by refusing to do so, he shamed the crowd and averted the execution.

He showed no contempt for anyone... Not to Judas, and not to Pontius Pilate. He even prayed for the salvation of the two thieves who were crucified along with him, two people he didn't even know.

His word was one of peace and tolerance, Roy... Not what we hear from religious groups today who call homosexuality evil, who say that God hates gays, or hate groups pretending to be churches who protest at the funerals of soldiers who died for our country. Jesus would never have told ANYONE that he was evil. He would have used a gentle hand to convince a sinner to repent, and then offer to forgive.

Jesus represents peace, tolerance, and love. Something we need a lot of.

And by the way... Don't take the stuff you read about in the Old Testament at face-value... That's where it says "Spare the rod, spoil the child", where it says that you should be stoned if you work on Sunday, and where it says that it's okay to sell your daughter into slavery.

[Bear]

You know, Roy, I do have a Bible, and I read it a lot...

If you read the New Testament from front to back, you'd see that Jesus never once condemns homosexuals, or those who performs abortions... He doesn't condemn anyone, for that matter.

A group of hypocrites came to him with a woman who was to be stoned for adultery, and thought to tempt him into passing judgment so that they could accuse him. But he instead wrote on the ground, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." He said that because HE was the only one without sin that was present, and by refusing to do so, he shamed the crowd and averted the execution.

He showed no contempt for anyone... Not to Judas, and not to Pontius Pilate. He even prayed for the salvation of the two thieves who were crucified along with him, two people he didn't even know.

His word was one of peace and tolerance, Roy... Not what we hear from religious groups today who call homosexuality evil, who say that God hates gays, or hate groups pretending to be churches who protest at the funerals of soldiers who died for our country. Jesus would never have told ANYONE that he was evil. He would have used a gentle hand to convince a sinner to repent, and then offer to forgive.

Jesus represents peace, tolerance, and love. Something we need a lot of.

And by the way... Don't take the stuff you read about in the Old Testament at face-value... That's where it says "Spare the rod, spoil the child", where it says that you should be stoned if you work on Sunday, and where it says that it's okay to sell your daughter into slavery.

[Roy Karrde]

Relax Dark Sage it is a joke, besides you have no idea what religious God we are talking about, I very well could be Jewish and take the stuff in the Old Testament as face value.

Besides I figured you would be back here engaging in the Birtherism like attacks that Team Obama has sunk too, so I have to say I do give you credit for not doing that man.

[Dark Sage]

Besides I figured you would be back here engaging in the Birtherism like attacks that Team Obama has sunk too, so I have to say I do give you credit for not doing that man.

I don't sink to the level of lunatics, Roy. Two wrongs don't make a right.

[Roy Karrde]

I don't sink to the level of lunatics, Roy. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Glad to know that you think those running Obama's campaign are lunatics.

[Dark Sage]

To be perfectly honest, this was the first I've heard of any "Birther-style attacks" on Romney. I haven't been watching the news all day.

I know the unfounded rumors about his father being polygamous and all that, but I haven't heard much new stuff.

Edit: Btw, Roy, if Romney truly wanted to prove he was the bigger man, this is what he would do:

He would denounce the opinions of Donald Trump and Joe Arpaio, and then condemn the comments made by Ted Nugent.

If he did that, I would gain a great deal more respect for him than I have now.

[Roy Karrde]

To be perfectly honest, this was the first I've heard of any "Birther-style attacks" on Romney. I haven't been watching the news all day.

I know the unfounded rumors about his father being polygamous and all that, but I haven't heard much new stuff.

Alright it started with a Boston Globe Report which got its sources from Mother Jones and Talking Points Memo.

The allegation is this, because Romney's name appears on FEC returns for Bain Capital in 2002, then he has misled the public about leaving in Feb 1999 to go work on the Olympics.

The story gained legs when the infinite stupidity of Obama's Deputy Campaign Manager Stephanie Cutter basically said that Romney has either misled the public, or engaged in a felony. This line of stupidity was also parroted by Obama's Campaign Press Secretary.

Now here is why it is wrong: As explained by The Washington Post, FactCheck, and two Obama Supporters at Bain. Romney left Bain Capital so fast in 1999 to head the Olympics that they did not have time to make appropriate changes, since Bain Capital is such a big company, with so much to do, his name remained on FEC filings for years to come even though he wasn't with the company.

Edit: Btw, Roy, if Romney truly wanted to prove he was the bigger man, this is what he would do:

He would denounce the opinions of Donald Trump and Joe Arpaio, and then condemn the comments made by Ted Nugent.

If he did that, I would gain a great deal more respect for him than I have now.

If some one in Romney's campaign came out and said something stupid like what is happening with Obama's right now, I would say he needs to do that as well as apologize to Obama for the stupidity of his campaign. But since Arpaio, Trump, and Nugent do not actually work for Romney, going out and denouncing them right now would be a waste of breath and time as it takes coverage of his message and shifts it completely in a different direction.

I mean I would love to see Romney do it, but in the realm of Presidential Campaign Politics you do not have the time to lose a few news cycles that could be used for your message. However when it is a member of your own campaign team, it is your duty to denounce them, fire them, and apologize to the other guy, that is just leadership as you are responsible for those beneath you. Obama has yet to do that.

[Blademaster]

Roy... Read some of the reader's responses in that link, and you'll see what their target audience is...

They remind me of a group of name-calling first graders.

I don't sink to the level of lunatics, Roy.

[Dark Sage]

I know, Blade, but I see them all the time... People who talk about the "Muslim Communist in the White House".

These ignorant people don't see the facts. Mr. Obama was married by a Protestant minister. His children were baptized by the same minister. No-one has ever seen him perform the daily prayers facing Mecca that all Muslims, without exception, are required to do. And he had done photo-ops where he has been shown on camera eating foods that are taboo to the Islamic faith.

But when I present this evidence to these clowns, they say I'm a "misguided sheep who is drinking too much Kool-Aid", referencing a tragic event that did not even involve that brand of soft drink. (It was actually Flavor-Aid. Shows how much they know.)

I would say these people are stupid, but they aren't. You don't choose to be stupid. This is ignorance.

[Bear]

above user's username spoonerized is Madeblaster. Love it!

In other news this topic is nothing short of entertaining.

[Drago]

This thread could feasibly be carried out as a series of visitor messages.

[Dark Sage]

You know, Roy, these negative attacks made against Romney kind of remind me of certain strategies that Romney used in the primaries against Gingrich. Newt was way ahead in the polls until Romney unleashed a torrent of negative and untrue ads.

Did Romney ever apologize to Newt?

I mean, not that Newt didn't deserve it, but still . . .