2006 Senate Midterm Elections (or "Who do you want to ruin America this time?")

[Musourenka]

On another note that's actually more towards the original topic I direct my next comments towards Musourenka. We're heading towards a dictatorship? Shit.....no one told me. Now I feel left out because I didn't get my swastika armband. You wanna see a real dictatorship look no futher than Nazi Germany during the Second World War.

Sorry, dictatorship wasn't the right word -- Totalitarianism is, though, and the US has been heading down that path since the 20th century.

If you say voting does not change a thing again then be sure to remind me to look for that list of all the times one vote did make a difference.

I'm not talking about one vote. I am talking about the act of voting. Voting has not pushed us towards freedom at all, and I can think of many times where it has done the opposite.

Forgive me if I seem to be like an ass but while I do feel people are allowed to have their own opinions I cannot respect the opinions and rants of people who do not go out and vote. If something in this country pisses you off then do something about it. Your vote could be the one that makes a difference ^_~

Let me tell you why I have my sig as such; to vote means you accept and legitimize the system. I don't accept the system, nor do I consider it legitimate, so I don't vote.

Listen -- there is no way to vote ourselves out of this mess whatsoever.


And, Zero, Bush is not the problem, so don't think the US has magically descended into hell in the last few years; the descent started long ago.

[Roy Karrde]

Trying to get back on topic...

You know that things have to be turning when the New York Times decides to report it, polls for people in favor of Democrats dropped from 50 in favor, 39 in favor of Republicans. Down to 47 in favor of Democrats, 43 in favor of Republicans!

Two lock in states for Democrats are now back in play for the Republicans: Rhode Island and Maryland

Democrats have been stated in saying things like “This is making me nervous.” after seeing the new polls.

So that is your Pre Election Day news ^^

[Musourenka]

Up in Florida news:

Katherine Harris is getting squashed by encumbant Bill Nelson in the Senate race.
Charlie Christ (R) has a solid lead over Jim Davis (D) in the race for Governor.

Florida's an oddball state; it swings from left to right and back again in anything and everything. On the whole, it does look like the Democrats are going to pick up a lot of Republican seats, though, and they may very well grab control of the House, and possibly the Senate, too.

[Roy Karrde]

You know I can understand how people can believe that the democrats are going to pick up enough seats to gain control. But the numbers just are not there, they never have been. If anything it could be a split which means the Vice President will decide control and the Republicans win. There is no big blue wave like Democrats thought and hoped. The votes are just not there.

[Jeff]

OK, here's the most recent news from Maryland:

Governor: Bob Ehrlich (R, incumbent) and Martin O'Malley (D) are practically dead even, with O'Malley leading Ehrlich by 1 point, within the undecided margin.

Senate (filling vacated seat of retiree Paul Sarbanes): Ben Cardin (D) is leading Michael Steele (R) by 6 points, again within the undecided margin. Steele has recently gotten endorsements from some black groups since those poll numbers came out, including at least one group in Prince George's County, one of the state's most liberal counties. (Steele is black BTW)

Also, those poll numbers came from the Baltimore Sun, which has endorsed O'Malley, not sure if the endorsement came before or after the poll though. Depending on how you look at this, both elections could easily go either way. Interestingly, like I think I have said before, Maryland usually goes Democrat.

[Musourenka]

You know I can understand how people can believe that the democrats are going to pick up enough seats to gain control. But the numbers just are not there, they never have been. If anything it could be a split which means the Vice President will decide control and the Republicans win. There is no big blue wave like Democrats thought and hoped. The votes are just not there.

I could be very well reading the polls wrong, but at RealClearPolitics, they've listed a number of Republican seats currently leaning towards Democrats.

[mr_pikachu]

I could be very well reading the polls wrong, but at RealClearPolitics, they've listed as a number of Republican seats currently leaning towards Democrats.

Two things.

1. It's still pretty close. Not counting the "toss-ups," the Democrats only lead by one, I believe. And there are a lot of toss-ups.

2. That's the House, not the Senate.

[Musourenka]

Two things.

1. It's still pretty close. Not counting the "toss-ups," the Democrats only lead by one, I believe. And there are a lot of toss-ups.

2. That's the House, not the Senate.

1) The seats up for grabs are forty-eight Republican and six Democrat seats. The Democrats merely have to grab fifteen of the Republican and maintain their Democrat seats to gain majority in the House.

2) Correct, and the Senate race looks a lot closer. After looking through those, I'm thinking the Democrats will edge out in the House, but the Republicans will (barely) keep control of the Senate.

[mr_pikachu]

Ah, you're right on point 1. Looks like I was reading (that part of) it incorrectly. Thanks for pointing it out.

[Roy Karrde]

Well I had a chance to go see President Bush last night, but I had to stay home due to a test in C++ this morning. I almost wish I went now that I hear that there were some real nuts protesting outside. Some were holding flags upside down and other anti american shows of protest. It just makes you wonder how some one can live with such sick hate in their heads.

[Jeff]

It seems like wherever Bush goes, the protestors follow, right along with all their anti-American symbolism like upside-down flags and whatnot, and then they whine when people call them unamerican .

Anyway, from what I've seen/heard it seems that the Republicans are pretty safe in the Senate, but the House looks iffy, may very well go to the Democrats. Also, while the democrats have been leading in alot of areas, the Republicans have gained some momentum, so it all depends on if that momentum is enough to color the undecided margins red, since alot of races have gotten to the too-close-to-call point. It's still anyone's game.

Well, I almost forgot to say, I voted! It was a 6-page ballot, full of plenty of various obscure offices I didn't even know existed . And no, I didn't just push random buttons on the screen, I'm more responsible than that, I basically voted with my party unless I knew otherwise about the candidate. I'm just glad I live in an unincorporated area or else I'd probably also have to vote for mayor, city/town council, head dogcatcher, village idiot, etc., etc., etc...

[Roy Karrde]

I so wish I could vote, but I am registered in North Richland Hills, and live in Waco which is 120 Miles from North Richland Hills. Anyway rumors of voting frad is already starting. Supposily people are hearing phone calls that say "This is from the Republican National Comittiee, if you vote tomorrow you will be arrested". Along with as I mentioned before over 1,000 frad ballots were found in the offices of ACORN.

[Heald]

I don't normally endorse YTMNDs, but here is one that applies so well to the topic.

http://insertcandidatesnamehere.ytmnd.com/

...couple of black kids...

[Jeff]

I so wish I could vote, but I am registered in North Richland Hills, and live in Waco which is 120 Miles from North Richland Hills.

My sister is in kind of the same situation, she's registered in Queen Anne's County, and lives at her college in Emmitsburg, a few hours away. Don't know if she filed an absentee ballot or not though.

[Heald]

I so wish I could vote, but I am registered in North Richland Hills, and live in Waco which is 120 Miles from North Richland Hills. Anyway rumors of voting frad is already starting. Supposily people are hearing phone calls that say "This is from the Republican National Comittiee, if you vote tomorrow you will be arrested". Along with as I mentioned before over 1,000 frad ballots were found in the offices of ACORN.

Just out of interest, did you grow up in NRH and then move to Waco from NRH for academic or other reasons, or was that just the nearest polling station?

[Roy Karrde]

I lived in North Richland Hills all my life and voted there last year for City Elections, and two years ago for Presidential Elections. About three months ago I moved to Waco to go to a College in which I can complete a two year program in Video Game Design. I was planning to go home yesterday morning and come back tonight. That way I could see Bush and vote, but my evil teacher decied to hold the C++ test today, so I had no choice but to stay here.

Edit: To stay on topic, here is some election results:

Office: U.S. Senate


Precincts Reporting: 296 of 2443 (12.12%)
Registered Voters: 4,555,850 Total Voting: 227,308 Voter Turnout: 4.99 %
G F Allen Republican 113,125 49.77%
J H Webb Jr Democratic 111,427 49.02%
G G Parker Independent Green 2,565 1.13%
Write Ins 191 0.08%
View Results by District Locality Total: 227,308

[DarkTemplarZero]

The YTMND is pretty good, but Jon Stewart still wins: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHBcdIfzXns . That's good stuff.

Hahah C++, great language. I program in it on occasion for messing around with DirectX, although I find Java more intuitive and use it most of the time. Still for games C++'s the way to go unless you want to manually compile Assembly code.

And contrary to popular belief, protesting is not a sign of hatred. If you think that's bad, you should've been at the Amnesty International Annual General Meeting's Denounce Torture Rally in Portland last year. One of the speakers was from a South American country where several of her family members had been abducted and tortured by the government, she went as far as to say any nation that practices torture (or as we say in the states to make ourselves not seem like the KGB, "alternative interrogation") a "terrorist" nation, referring specifically to the United States' torture of prisoners in Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib, and secret prisons in Eastern Europe. It's not hatred, call it concern about where the nation is headed.

[Roy Karrde]

Regular protesting is fine, stomping on the American Flag, holding it upside down, and shouting Anti American Slogans at a crowd that is coming out from a Wedding Party/Campeign Rally is just sick. Which is what that party was, a celebration of the 20th Anniversary of our Governor's wedding, he wanted to hold a event for it and invited the President to come and speak. Not to mention that it was a free event, and the tickets were given out in family packs. So there were plenty of families there that brought their children. So why should those children who did not vote, and only came to see the President, be subject to such a rude and sickening display?

There is a time for Freedom of Speech, and there is a time to shut up, usually that line is crossed when you start hurling accusations at families coming out of a campeign event.

[Blademaster]

Jesus, I know I'm gonna regret this, but...

Regular protesting is fine, stomping on the American Flag, holding it upside down, and shouting Anti American Slogans at a crowd that is coming out from a Wedding Party/Campeign Rally is just sick.

OK, the last one I'll agree with. The first one... eh, I'll agree with that too. But the second one?

Will someone please explain to me why it's such a tragedy to hold a flag upside down? It's a piece of colored cloths that have been sewn together, and nothing more. What's the big deal?

And 'Because it's un-American.' doesn't count as an answer.

...OK, bring on the barrage of flames and posts that are too long for me to absorb.

[Roy Karrde]

Holding the flag upside down symbolizes that America is completely wrong and needs to be changed. It's basically become a symbol that the country is heading in the wrong direction. I'm sure you can find more about it if you want to Google it, I'm just going off what they discussed on Mark Davis this morning.

[DarkTemplarZero]

I'll agree that hurling insults at a family is wrong, but what the hell kind of a person throws a wedding party/campaign rally? Really, those are two things that shouldn't mix, it's about the sacred institution of marriage, god damn it >.< Marriage only mixes with politics in George Orwell's 1984 or in the case of Bill O'Reilly, in which case everything is political. Euler's Identity is too liberal! Euler was a terrorist ally, just like the ACLU!

Oh and I really got a kick out of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BxOfmH9wlA .

[Roy Karrde]

It wasn't a wedding party persay, the guy got married on Nov 6th, about twenty years ago. He wanted to renew his vowls with his wife, and since it was the day before the election, he had a chance to invite the President, as well as bring in one last campeign push for his governership. From the way he talked on the radio, some times his wedding has fallen on Election Day and thus he usually doesn't get a chance to be with his wife, becuase he is the Governor of Texas. So he had a chance of throwing a free event for his wife, and combine it with one last campeign push for himself and the President.

[Jeff]

Well, according to Fox News, Paul Sarbanes' seat will remain held by the Democrats, Maryland will have a new Governor, and I'm moving to Virginia j/k. Well people were predicting that maybe Maryland would put a Republican in the Senate and Virginia would give a seat to the Democrats, but it seems we're both sticking to our respective colors.

Edit: OK, the gubernatorial projection was based on exit polls, and we know what they did in '04... (also I didn't take part in any exit poll) so, I know I sound like a broken record saying this, but it's still anyone's game. I'm watching the official figures and the two gubernatorial candidates are neck and neck, in fact I just saw Ehrlich pull a couple thousand in front. So putting this back into a national perspective, while the projections can give us an idea, it doesn't look they really mean much, especially for the really tight races.

[mr_pikachu]

According to the projections on CNN, the Democrats have taken the House. They currently have 221 seats with 33 elections undecided. (The GOP has 181, and 218 seats are needed for control.)

The Senate is still interesting, with the GOP in the lead, 49-46 (the two Independent seats are being called Democratic on some sites, but even if you consider it 49-48 the Republicans have a slight lead with three races left). However, since the Republican Party only needs a tie to retain Senate control thanks to the tiebreaker of the Vice President, it seems that the Democrats will only win the House this election.

Still up for grabs:


Senate
Missouri
Montana
Virginia


House
California 04
California 11
California 36
California 39
California 43
California 47
California 50
Colorado 04
Connecticut 02
Connecticut 04
Georgia 08
Georgia 12
Idaho 01
Iowa 02
Louisiana 02
Michigan 07
Michigan 08
Michigan 09
Michigan 11
Nebraska 02
Nebraska 03
Nevada 02
Nevada 03
New Mexico 01
North Carolina 08
Ohio 02
Ohio 15
Pennsylvania 06
Pennsylvania 08
Texas 23
Washington 05
Washington 08
Wyoming 01

[Roy Karrde]

I really don't trust CNN right now, the Senate seems locked becuase they are easier to track. As for the house at one time they had the dems up at 239, and then it has been a downward spiral. Not only that but if you check some of the races, alot of them are only 30% or 40% reporting and they have called the winner. We really wont know who wins till tomorrow...and then the legal trials start.

[mr_pikachu]

Admittedly, I don't trust any of the major news networks, but they're the only ones who'll have the info quickly in this case. And as a counter-example that I hate to give (since, although I'm unhappy with both parties, I'm still slightly pulling for the Republicans), FOX News has Democrats taking control of the House as well, though by a smaller margin.

[RedStarWarrior]

Let the Democrats win. When stuff is still fucked up in 2008, they'll just elect a Republican president again.

[mr_pikachu]

Too many House seats to post about them all... let's talk some more about the Senate! XD

With 89% of the vote in, McCaskill has a 2% edge over Talent in Missouri. Both sides have projected McCaskill as the winner.

In Virginia, all precincts have reported, and Webb has apparently won another one for the Democrats... by less than one percent. A recount's pretty much inevitable.

The remaining race is Montana. Tester has a 4% edge over Burns, but with only 65% of the precincts reported, that one's too close to call. (And did you ever notice that Montana is totally empty? They'll be lucky to get 300K votes.)

[Razola]

This is a good thing, though I'm hoping the GOP maintains the Senate just a bit. Though, I shed no tears if they lose it. The party has lost its way for a good while now.

[mr_pikachu]

Well, I don't think they can lose it at this point (providing that the projections so far are accurate), at least from a technical standpoint. The two Independents have said they will side with the Democrats in terms of voting, but I don't think either has officially switched party affiliations. Therefore, the best that the Democrats can manage is a 49-49 tie by winning both Montana and Virginia. The Senate would still be in Republican control in that case due to the Vice President's tiebreak.

This could change, however, if one of the Independents (or Republicans) switches parties, or if one or more projections proves incorrect (although the ones right now seem pretty spot-on; they've held back premature judgment fairly well this time around).


EDIT: The two Independent wins were in Connecticut and Vermont, just for reference.

[Jeff]

Let the Democrats win. When stuff is still fucked up in 2008, they'll just elect a Republican president again.

My thoughts exactly.

[Roy Karrde]

Let the Democrats win. When stuff is still fucked up in 2008, they'll just elect a Republican president again.

Exactly, what can they do? Repeal the Bush tax cuts? Lets watch the Economy go down the crapper again. Pull the troops out of Iraq? Bush will veto it immediatly. Cut troop funding in Iraq? They will be perseved even more as Anti Military. File Inpeachment Hearings for Bush like their base wants? That will gridlock Congress for two years with nothing coming from it.

So yeah let them have the House, in two years they will be kicked out again.

Well 24 hours after the Elections, and the dow is plumeting, and Middle East terror Countries like Iran and Syria are Celebrating. The Democrats better get their act together, or they will prove everything that the Republicans have been saying, in that they will hurt this country greatly.

[Jeff]

Some big news out of Maryland, don't know if anyone's heard about this, but the two major Republican candidates have not conceded even though there opponents have both declared victory. The reason is that they are waiting on the absentee ballots. They both told there supporters to use them, and now we got a record number of them this year. Personally, I'll call the Senate race for Cardin (D), but the gubernatorial race still seems up in the air.

[The Blue Avenger]

Well 24 hours after the Elections, and the dow is plumeting

If you call 'going up' 'plummeting'. Stop being so alarmist. Honestly, Democrats in power != apocalypse, so stop acting like it.

[RedStarWarrior]

The Democratic base remains rigidly liberal, but many of the Democrats elected yesterday were actually moderate to right-leaning Democrats. The only way they will get anything done is to work with the President, which they have already stated that they will do. All the liberals that are celebrating are going to be severely disappointed in the coming monthes.

[Heald]

Let the Democrats win. When stuff is still fucked up in 2008, they'll just elect a Republican president again.

Two years until the next Presidential election. People don't realise how slowly everything happens in Congress, especially in the House. The only way to get something through quickly is if a landmark is attacked by a terrorist or if there is a school shooting, although there have been so many of the latter lately that it is starting to lose its effect.

Exactly, what can they do? Repeal the Bush tax cuts? Lets watch the Economy go down the crapper again. Pull the troops out of Iraq? Bush will veto it immediatly. Cut troop funding in Iraq? They will be perseved even more as Anti Military. File Inpeachment Hearings for Bush like their base wants? That will gridlock Congress for two years with nothing coming from it.

There's the great American democracy - people from all different backgrounds vote in Representatives of their views, only to have their views then shat on by which redneck spoiled daddy's boy asshole the party controlling the executive has chosen to be the President. Chances of a veto being overturned? Very little, especially since Republicans like to put their President before common sense and the common good. And don't use that whole 'well 51% of the country voted him in so he has the right!' bullshit. The choice was between him and some other asshole. Neither are fit to run a country so it just became a partisan mud-slinging contest.

Also, Republicans have no room to complain about fears that a Democrat house will slow things down with impeachment over Iraq. Republicans did the same thing during Clinton's Presidency, except there is a vital difference between now and then : now, we are dealing with lying about Saddam, Saddam's involvement with terrorists and al-Qaeda, and Iraq's weapons, plus sending thousands of poorly-equipped of both his own and other country's soldiers into a badly organised war, many of which died, plus bombing and shooting hundreds innocent Iraqi citizens, plus the kidnapping and subsequent beheading of innocent journalists, engineers etc., all in the while pissing off the entire Muslim world and generally making the situation worse for the Western world, the only victors of this war being those who were being persecuted under Saddam; then, we were dealing with a blow-job. For the Republicans to complain about the danger of impeachment bogging down Congress would just be hypocrisy, plain and simple.

Well 24 hours after the Elections, and the dow is plumeting, and Middle East terror Countries like Iran and Syria are Celebrating. The Democrats better get their act together, or they will prove everything that the Republicans have been saying, in that they will hurt this country greatly.

Just like how everyone predicted how Bush would blow Clinton's surplus (not unlike Monica Lewinsky), make thousands unemployed, drive the poorest and most vulnerable citizens further into the poorhouse, all for a few tax-cuts that only serve to make the rich richer. But you rich white boys will probably contend this. Just realise that while you (or more likely your parents) might be benefitting from Bush's policies and are privileged enough to be allowed to praise Bush on a Pokemon message board, bear in mind those whose lives have been ruined, which Bush's policies contributed significantly towards, are too poor, too busy slaving their asses off to scrape enough money together to keep a roof over their heads, or too 'my house in New Orleans underwater and I have nothing left'-ed to be able to argue their point of view.

[Roy Karrde]

There's the great American democracy - people from all different backgrounds vote in Representatives of their views, only to have their views then shat on by which redneck spoiled daddy's boy asshole the party controlling the executive has chosen to be the President. Chances of a veto being overturned? Very little, especially since Republicans like to put their President before common sense and the common good. And don't use that whole 'well 51% of the country voted him in so he has the right!' bullshit. The choice was between him and some other asshole. Neither are fit to run a country so it just became a partisan mud-slinging contest.

I sense some anger from you?

Also, Republicans have no room to complain about fears that a Democrat house will slow things down with impeachment over Iraq. Republicans did the same thing during Clinton's Presidency, except there is a vital difference between now and then : now, we are dealing with lying about Saddam,

Lying is saying a known falsehood, the President did not know there were not Weapons of Mass Destructions in the country, infact everything pointed that there was.

Saddam's involvement with terrorists and al-Qaeda,

Saddam allowed a Al-Qaeda terrorist to remain in his country in a safe house, he allowed Al Qaeda training camps in his country, and allowed Al Qaeda to prepare for the coming invasion. Saddam also paid money to those that became Suicide Bombers. Yes your right, Saddam had no contacts with Terrorism!

and Iraq's weapons, plus sending thousands of poorly-equipped of both his own and other country's soldiers into a badly organised war, many of which died,

And who's fault is it that the Soldiers were badly equipped, lets look at how much Clinton and the Democrats cut funding in the 90s for the military, I believe some one brought up Kerry's voting record for the Military a few pages back, this is where that record becomes very relivant.

plus bombing and shooting hundreds innocent Iraqi citizens, plus the kidnapping and subsequent beheading of innocent journalists, engineers etc.

I don't remember the U.S. Troops capturing and beheading Journalists, or shooting and trying to kill hundreds of innocent Iraqis, infact I remember just the opposite that during the invasion the US led effort had the lowest Civilian Casulty rate. It wasn't until afterwards with the IEDs made by the terrorists that the casulty rate went up.

all in the while pissing off the entire Muslim world and generally making the situation worse for the Western world, the only victors of this war being those who were being persecuted under Saddam;

If going in and taking down the Nazis caused more people in Europe to be pissed at us, and those oppressed by the Nazis being the only ones that were the victors of that war, does it make the cuase any less just? Does pissing off millions, to save the lives of millions make the cause any less just? When has the court of Public Opinion dictated when we should save people?

then, we were dealing with a blow-job. For the Republicans to complain about the danger of impeachment bogging down Congress would just be hypocrisy, plain and simple.

Beep Wrong! Having a Blow Job in the office is not a impeachable offense, all it does is degrade the highest office of the land. LYING about it, to a grand jury. And remember lying, which is telling a known falsehood, in a attempt to persuade people. That is a impeachable offense.

Just like how everyone predicted how Bush would blow Clinton's surplus (not unlike Monica Lewinsky), make thousands unemployed, drive the poorest and most vulnerable citizens further into the poorhouse, all for a few tax-cuts that only serve to make the rich richer.

To start off, in the middle of Clinton's 2000 term, his Economic polices caused the economy to start taking a nose dive, this was a result of not having any security for the post .com bubble burst. Combined with the 9/11 terrorist attacks, this country was heading for a Depression not seen since the 1930s. Now what do you do when heading into a Depression? Do you try to balance the budget like Republicans tried to do during the 1930s and thus drive the depression further, or do you spend, spend, spend, and get money circulating. You spend, spend, spend. It wouldn't help to have a balance budget with double digit unemployment now would it? As for the tax cuts, I guess my middle class family is rich becuase we recieved money from them, as did everyone else. It also helped spur off new jobs and continues to make new jobs. That is why several prominant democrats including Hillary Clinton, have said they do not want to erase the Bush Tax Cuts!

bear in mind those whose lives have been ruined, which Bush's policies contributed significantly towards, are too poor, too busy slaving their asses off to scrape enough money together to keep a roof over their heads, or too 'my house in New Orleans underwater and I have nothing left'-ed to be able to argue their point of view.

First, we have unemployment the lowest it has been in years, and we have the economy roaring for the time being, so I doubt there are many that have had their lives ruined by Bush. For New Orleans the line of blame starts first at the Mayor, yes that Democrat Black Mayor who said that New York had a Hole in the Ground, that Mayor who said that all those School Busses that could be used to ship out people before the Hurricane hit, couldn't be used, becuase they were "Under Water" of course he was commenting that they were under water AFTER the Hurricane. Then the blame goes up to the Governor, Yes the Democrat Governor, who could not see the stupidity of the mayor of New Orleans and decided to leave it in his incapable hands. Finally the blame comes to the President, who should have ordered more Natioanal Guard troops faster.

It's a trickle up effect. The Mayor deserves the most amount of blame for being a complete idiot, then the Governor for her complete neglegence, and then the President for not forseeing the utter stupidity of those people, and ordering more troops to cover such a large area.

Jesus F'ing H Christ, is it easier to just blame Bush than to actually look into these things?

[Blademaster]

Jesus F'ing H Christ, is it easier to just blame Bush than to actually look into these things?

Well, in the most technical sense, yes it is. :/

[firepokemon]

Roy Karrde You are a fucking moron. Shut the fuck up.

And americans are stupid. The rest of the world opposed the Iraq years ago, but you people thought you knew better. Well guess what you're slowly getting disappointed and scared cause soldiers are dying.

What the fuck do you expect??? You can not get rid of terrorists etc unless you use huge bombs that will kill a lot of people including innocent iraqis. And you can't fucking quit now, that would only create havoc. You all supported the war and supported Bush with approval ratings in the 70s and 80s. Now deal with it.

Democrats = stupid
Republicans = fucking stupid.

[Roy Karrde]

You know that is border line flaming FirePokemon. Anyway I wont respond to it, so that this doesn't become a full out flame war when the last one was just dieing down. And everyone else, try not to take the Flame Bait, we're better than that.

Edit: I also would like to appologise to DTZ in that I accused him of being the AIM hacker. After several cival discussions with him I know for sure he isn't the AIM hacker. I know who it is, and I know who is contacting Jay to do it, or is using accounts simular to Jay. But I did want to say I am sorry to DTZ.