RI, MN, DE, CA get marriage equality. DOMA dies, and now the UK!

[RedStarWarrior]

@Magmar, how does Gwen come off as anything but straight? Also, you'll hate the last series...

[Dark Sage]

Bachmann yes but Santorum no. I think everyone stopped listening to him after his "rape babies are a wonderful gift from God" statement. The other Senetor who said it (I forgot his name but he represented Illinois) said the same exact thing and lost some election. Let's see what a "wonderful gift from God" a baby concieved after rape is when it happen in his OWN family....

It was TWO Senators, Todd Akin and Richard Mourdock. Both had to look for new jobs after January.

People won't stand for this anymore.

And by the way, Bachmann pulled another boner today, claiming that both 9/11 and Benghazi were the result of God's wrath, and recommended a national day of prayer and atonement this September 11th.

I swear, when this woman leaves office, she may well do so in a rubber truck.

[Roy Karrde]

Bachmann yes but Santorum no. I think everyone stopped listening to him after his "rape babies are a wonderful gift from God" statement. The other Senetor who said it (I forgot his name but he represented Illinois) said the same exact thing and lost some election. Let's see what a "wonderful gift from God" a baby concieved after rape is when it happen in his OWN family....

I can actually understand what he is coming from. Rape is not a gift from God of course not, but a baby is, and just because the baby was conceived via rape does not make the baby any less wonderful. It just makes the act it was brought about by absolutely despicable.

[Nall]

I love Dollhouse. I watched most of the first season when I got a free trial of Amazon Prime, but I haven't finished it yet. I really want to. I didn't really know any of Joss Whedon's stuff before Avengers came out but since then one of my friends who's always been into him has just been throwing his stuff at me and now I can't wait for the new S.H.I.E.L.D. show. I wouldn't describe any of the episodes of Dollhouse I saw as particularly inclusive, but it was very refreshing to see a badass female lead character (I've barely seen any of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, sadly ).

Also, I never said bisexual people don't exist (I'm pansexual), but they are very under-represented in American television and typically get glossed over in any "gay rights" campaign.

I can actually understand what he is coming from. Rape is not a gift from God of course not, but a baby is, and just because the baby was conceived via rape does not make the baby any less wonderful. It just makes the act it was brought about by absolutely despicable.

A baby is not a gift if you don't want one. It then becomes a burden, and that isn't fair to the mother or the child.

[CaptainJigglypuff]

It was TWO Senators, Todd Akin and Richard Mourdock. Both had to look for new jobs after January.

People won't stand for this anymore.

And by the way, Bachmann pulled another boner today, claiming that both 9/11 and Benghazi were the result of God's wrath, and recommended a national day of prayer and atonement this September 11th.

I swear, when this woman leaves office, she may well do so in a rubber truck.

A couple of things. I forgot that Santorum said that women who become pregnant as a result from rape "should be thankful" for the result. And with Bachmann, she sounds like a female version of Freddy Phelps. Seriously, does she ALSO believe that the American War for Independence was won by singing cowboys wearing suits of metal armor riding on pink and purple dinosaurs?

[Dark Sage]

I can actually understand what he is coming from. Rape is not a gift from God of course not, but a baby is, and just because the baby was conceived via rape does not make the baby any less wonderful. It just makes the act it was brought about by absolutely despicable.

But it might happen to a girl whose body is too young to even handle pregnancy - which is hard for even an adult - and serves as a constant reminder of the horrid attack.

And Roy, I should add that I no longer respect you and several other of my detractors in the least after finding out the things you have been saying behind my back. Please just go away.

[Roy Karrde]

But it might happen to a girl whose body is too young to even handle pregnancy - which is hard for even an adult - and serves as a constant reminder of the horrid attack.

Again the attack is horrible, but is anyone honestly going to look at a baby, or kid that was born from a rape victim and say "Oh yeah, your friends may be gifts from God because they werent born from rape, but your not."

And Roy, I should add that I no longer respect you and several other of my detractors in the least after finding out the things you have been saying behind my back. Please just go away.

It's Mt Moon man.

[RedStarWarrior]

If the girl is too young, then she'd have an abortion because even those politicians believe in it when the life of the woman is in question.

DS, you don't understand what Mt. Moon is all about. We bitch about everyone (I'm especially hard on blademaster) and that's perfectly acceptable in that forum. This thread isn't really the place to talk about these things, though.

[Dark Sage]

It's Mt Moon man.

So a hate thread that's started to insult me is right because it's on your exclusive members-only club that I'm not invited to?? That makes it WORSE!

I was abhorred that this is even permitted, much less accepted. I do NOT buy the garbage about it "not being personal". To me, it IS. It hurt me. Hurt me deeply to see two whole threads started just to insult me.

I lost all respect for you I had left when I saw it, Roy. And the same goes for Heald and Blade.

And by the way... I only wish you knew what pregnancy was like so you could feel what having it forced upon you is like. In fact, I wish EVERY man who opposes abortion knew.

OR knew what it was like to face their attacker in court when he demands visitation rights, which they have the right to do in some states (mostly red states). As if the trial for the crime isn't bad enough.

[CaptainJigglypuff]

So a hate thread that's started to insult me is right because it's on your exclusive members-only club that I'm not invited to?? That makes it WORSE!

I was abhorred that this is even permitted, much less accepted. I do NOT buy the garbage about it "not being personal". To me, it IS. It hurt me. Hurt me deeply to see two whole threads started just to insult me.

I lost all respect for you I had left when I saw it, Roy. And the same goes for Heald and Blade.

And by the way... I only wish you knew what pregnancy was like so you could feel what having it forced upon you is like. In fact, I wish EVERY man who opposes abortion knew.

OR knew what it was like to face their attacker in court when he demands visitation rights, which they have the right to do in some states (mostly red states). As if the trial for the crime isn't bad enough.

Um I do not mean to be offensive but I think this topic has become drastically off topic and has taken a turn for the worse. I am not taking anyone's side here but this REALLY isn't the place to discuss issues with other members. I'm starting to feel uncomfortable now and I believe that others feel the same way.

[Dark Sage]

Well, I can't discuss it anywhere else, Jig.

I don't have the right to post there, and no mods will listen to me.

I'm very, very hurt. I actually cried when I saw it. I never saw so much effort go into people insulting me. You may all think it's fun and games, but I thought it was sadistic.

[Gavin Luper]

Well, I can't discuss it anywhere else, Jig.

I don't have the right to post there, and no mods will listen to me.

I'm very, very hurt. I actually cried when I saw it. I never saw so much effort go into people insulting me. You may all think it's fun and games, but I thought it was sadistic.

Dark Sage, I'm genuinely sorry that you were upset by what you read. I do not like bullying behaviour either.

However, you need to realise that Mt Moon is exempt from the usual TPM rules. Please read Gabi's announcement in Mt Moon to better understand this.

There is no "exclusive" club. You just need to apply to the forum mods and they can give you posting privileges. You can then post to defend yourself, and write similar diatribes against other members. I don't really like things getting personal in Mt Moon but at the same time, it is a double edged sword and you can do the same thing back.

In any case, the appropriate place to resolve this is in Mt Moon or via PM to the relevant parties. Post about it here again and you can expect an infraction.

[Magmar]

Gavin, I... Thank you

The Minnesota Senate takes up marriage equality on Monday. I'm pretty excited for the Minnesotans who have fought so long for equality! Hooray, Minnesota! It's so exciting to watch this map start to turn more blue:



*even though Rhode Island and Delaware (tl;dr of whole thread: recently legalized marriage equality) are really specks on the map! Ha! We're still people though with our own state identity and it's a big deal to us.

---------

Dark Sage, I'm sorry you're feeling hurt by what's going on in mount moon. I assure you it's just a domain of randomness there, and some posters behave snidely and sarcastically towards everyone. I really think you should take up your issues in an inquisitive way. Ask questions--why are you being attacked? Did you have anything to do with it? Is it a problem with the other person(s)? Ask questions and reach out to someone who seems reasonable and you should get answers.

I know if I weren't allowed to view a thread where other members of the community were (perceived as) insulting me, I'd be offended as well. But I'm also a Cancer and we Cancers get offended easily anyway (at least that's my excuse).

----------

I view Dollhouse as inclusive because not only of the diverse main cast, but because they touch on issues (Spoiler:) like disability as well. Sierra's story late in the second series brought me to tears, which is something television/movies so rarely do. I could really relate to Sierra, having a mother with the same issues she does--paranoid schizophrenia. Victor lives with PTSD, which I have from child abuse and I can understand why he wanted to erase his memory to avoid triggers throughout life. Echo was a vegan social activist before she became a doll. November is fuller-figured than most women in Hollywood, and is never portrayed as anything but stunningly beautiful. Those dimensions of diversity, which are rarely reflected in protagonist characters as anything but weaknesses, are added as layers to strong and powerful characters. That's where my reflection of the program as "more inclusive" comes from.

[RedStarWarrior]

@Magmar, the light blue and red striped states hurt my eyes.

Even though Rhode Island is a smaller state, it gets equal say in the Senate!

I think that the National Cathedral being willing to marry gay couples was also a win, but it wasn't as heavily covered when it happened.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-ren/?page=all

It's an interesting read.

[Dark Sage]

Even though Rhode Island is a smaller state, it gets equal say in the Senate!

Yes, that's the exact reason we have two houses of Congress.

See, the small states outnumber the big ones, but big states have bigger populations.

With the House of Representatives have a state's influence determined by its size, but the Senate giving each state an equal number, the large states can never dominate the small ones on any issue they'd disagree with (or vice-versa), and believe me, that is often a big concern.

[RedStarWarrior]

I'm well aware of the overall structure of Congress. I did go to school and actually paid attention.

I only said that in response to Magmar's statement about the state's size.

Your condescending syntax could be a reason that people have issues with you, DS.

[ChobiChibi]

Ah, but everyone in London IS really ridiculously good looking and stylish! At least the downtown part... and especially #TPMUK

Yeah we are! Especially my sheep PJs... Fuck yeah!

I'd like to go back to the topic of sexuality if I may, since I was too busy finishing assessments to contribute. I'm bisexual (yes, those flirtations with my fellow RPG mod are real, and no, you cannot watch), but have never had the chance to... Explore this. I'm clearly stuck in the bi-closet, since not many of my rl friends know about it (not even my ex (still feels weird using that word)), but maybe I will get the chance to now.

I don't see, though, how someone can truly be republican, yet claim to support their LGBT friends... It just doesn't sit well with me.

Anyway, back to the most important thing... BARRY. You should have brought a hard drive with you when I saw you. I've got series 1-3 of Torchwood, I could have given you D: And yeah, don't even bother with series 4 (Miracle Day). BBC America took it over and ruined it

Are any of you fellows across the pond up to date with the current series of Doctor Who? I <3 Clara.

[Lady Vulpix]

Are any of you fellows across the pond up to date with the current series of Doctor Who? I <3 Clara.

I greatly dislike Clara. I don't find her character believable at all.

[RedStarWarrior]

She's too perfect of a companion, yes.

I'm waiting to see why, though. She's too perfect for a reason, in my opinion.

[kainashi]

She's too perfect of a companion, yes.

I'm waiting to see why, though. She's too perfect for a reason, in my opinion.

we're supposed to find out next week.

[Magmar]

Other than the current episode from yesterday, I'm all caught up... I'm not loving Clara. She's kind of uninteresting thus far to me. I LOVED (Spoiler:) Doctor Donna she's my gurl

[ChobiChibi]

You'll love yesterday's episode, Matt Smith did such a good job. It was... Interesting

[Roy Karrde]

I don't see, though, how someone can truly be republican, yet claim to support their LGBT friends... It just doesn't sit well with me.

Being a Republican does not mean being absolutely dogmatic in your belief of the party line. There are many Republicans who like myself are very socially liberal.

[Dark Sage]

I don't see, though, how someone can truly be republican, yet claim to support their LGBT friends... It just doesn't sit well with me.

Ever hear of the Log Cabin Republicans?

Of course... I really don't understand them much at all myself...

[Roy Karrde]

Ever hear of the Log Cabin Republicans?

Of course... I really don't understand them much at all myself...

Simple, they refuse to allow their sexuality define their political beliefs completely. They may agree with 95% of the Republican party, so why let that 5% define which party they join?

[Dark Sage]

To be honest Roy, I don't understand most Republican voters in general.

But ones who support a party that is trying to limit their rights...

Well, uhm... Know what a "Boomerang Bigot" is? It's someone who speaks out against or hates a race or ethnic group that he himself is a member of. (Like, say, Uncle Rufus in The Boondocks.)

Such people are usually only found in fiction, and portrayed negatively, but if you encounter a real one... Be afraid.

In fact, here's one example of a real one - also a member of the a GOP group - that's downright shocking:

http://samuel-warde.com/2013/04/miss...nly-men-voted/

[RedStarWarrior]

I've always been pro-gay rights. I've voted Republican and I've voted Democrat. The only reason I've been leaning more Democrat (I'm personally Libertarian) is because the Republican Party has decided to make the idea that gay marriage is wrong one of their main points. Sure, it's been a part of the platform, but it wasn't on the highlight reel, so to speak, when I voted for Bush. I still vote Republican in local and state elections when the individual doesn't have the stance as a key part of their campaign.

I'm probably more like Roy, socially liberal.

[Magmar]

Fiscal conservatism + social liberalism = moderate, in general. I'm definitely a liberal, but have always felt comfortable debating the conservative perspective on fiscal policy.

In Rhode Island, all 5 Republican state senators voted in favor of marriage equality. The 12 nays were Democrats!

[Oslo]

oh hey there deja-vu heyyy

Yes they do. They show women possessing complete control over their bodies. They have chosen to appear in a film of their own free will: they alone make that decision. Just because it's a decision you don't approve of, doesn't mean they aren't free to make it.

My point is that the nude scene resulted from male writers saying "I want to write a female nude scene" and the male director saying "I want to direct a female nude scene" and male producers saying "there's definitely a bankable male audience for our female nude scene" and the male-owned studio believing that all of the above can result in a profitable movie. Yes, the actress chose to take part (and I certainly don't disapprove of that choice), but the processes that led to that nude scene were predominately male-determined. That's where the control is centred.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure the same movie we're talking about has Chris Evans at some point wearing nothing but whipped cream and fruit, right? And the lead character is female, which is unique for this kind of film. And I'm pretty sure in its own stupid way, with some tasteless exceptions, it was actually kind of a funny movie. (It's been a few years.) So I don't intend to call out the movie as a bastion of all things anti-feminist, because it's really not. My point is that a female nude scene in this sort of context arises from male interests/the male gaze far more than the choice of the individual consenting actress.

What's wrong with sexualising female bodies? It is normal human sexuality. Why do you have a problem with female bodies being sensationalised but you are all for "more peen getting shown"?

Nothing is wrong with sexualizing female bodies, but only when male bodies are proportionately sexualized as well. Great strides toward a better sense of balance have been made even in the last decade, but we're still not there. CaptainJigglypuff's example of male genitals being used for shock/humour is quite spot-on. There are many others. We'll get there, though.

What is wrong with a film being written, produced and directed entirely by men? Why, it actually makes perfect sense for men to make a film that is targeted to teenage boys and young men! And in what possible way could men simply making a film preclude female actors, or even females in general, from possessing freedom?

Nothing is wrong with a film being written/produced/directed entirely by men. Some of my favourites are. My point is that it's ineffective to use a film written/produced/directed entirely by men as a shining example of female agency and control.

What is wrong with gay white males? If there is a subculture of people calling themselves “queer” (the most masochistic, self-loathing name for a group ever), and they are made up of all kinds of people who are interested in seeing something other than gay white males, what is stopping them from making these portrayals themselves?

Nothing is wrong with gay white males. (I am a gay white male and would never change that for anything.) What's wrong is the fact that this one group pulls disproportionate focus in queer culture. Ideally, all directors/writers/whatever should work toward inclusivity in whatever representations they put forward. It sometimes does happen but the GLAAD report indicates further work to be done.

What makes you assume that “lesbian” means butch women with tattoos and weight problems? Also, GLAAD cannot be taken seriously: they act like a cult where homosexuals are expected to act, think and believe in line with GLAAD’s leftist feminist politics. Homos who actually think for themselves/challenge that party line are slammed and essentially excommunicated (see: Bret Easton Ellis).

There are a lot of ways to perform lesbian identity. However, lesbian portrayals coded with traditional notions of femininity are by far the most common in works targeting mainstream culture. The "butch" subculture, which destabilizes these norms, doesn't curry much favour. And I'm not pretending everything GLAAD touches turns to gold—their criticisms can miss the mark and their hero-worshipping of Dan Savage is disappointing, given his history of transphobic and ableist remarks—but I'd rather think critically and discerningly about their work than slap a "cannot be taken seriously" label on everything they do. The report gives examples with sensible analysis so I believe it.

[RedStarWarrior]

Fuck yeah, Minnesota! 3rd state to legalize in less than 2 weeks.

[Dark Sage]

This kind of means that the GOP's goal of a Constititutional Amendment defining marriage as between a man and a woman is sunk. Literally.

An Amendment needs ratification by at least 38 state legilatures before it is approved. As of right now, there are at least 12 that will clearly refuse to do so, leaving exactly 38 that might.

And there are others where it is highly unlikely, such as New Jersey. They would have legalized gay marriage twice if Christie hadn't vetoed it, and trying very hard to gain the votes to overide his veto the next time.

So I'd say that the Republicans can pretty much throw this one away.

[Magmar]

Fuck yeah, Minnesota!

That's exactly what I tweeted huzzah Minnesota! Who's next? Illinois? Oregon? It could even be California, pending Supreme Court action in the coming weeks.

[Katie]

I can actually understand what he is coming from. Rape is not a gift from God of course not, but a baby is, and just because the baby was conceived via rape does not make the baby any less wonderful. It just makes the act it was brought about by absolutely despicable.

....is no one else disgusted by this attitude?

[Blademaster]

What's there to be disgusted by? It's simple logic.

Rape = bad.
Baby = good.

[Katie]

It's flawed logic, assuming all women (people?) would welcome an unplanned rape-reminder baby with open arms, potentially destroying all goals, plans, relationships, health, and finances in the process. "Gift" indeed.

[Heald]

I present a new tactic for the pro-choice movement.

The pro-choice movement receives letters of support from women who wish to have abortions so they have a comprehensive and constantly updated list of women who wish to abort their pregnancies.

As the pro-life movement/Republicans feel violent rape is an acceptable price to pay for a pregnancy not to be aborted, then the pro-choice movement should offer a bargain. They will actively dissuade women seeking abortion services from getting an abortion - if they succeed in dissuading one woman from getting an abortion, then one prominent pro-lifer or Republican politician that is pro-life gets violently raped/sodomised by a convicted violent sex offender. So for every abortion that is averted, one member of the pro-life movement must be violently raped to pay for the pro-choice movement's help in helping to stop abortions.

If the Republicans and Pro-Life movement do not agree to this compromise, then clearly they do not actually believe that violent rape is an acceptable price to pay for the birth of a new child, and therefore their entire stance is based on misogynistic rhetoric and hatred against women.

edit - obviously this is a satirical suggestion where I have taken the pro-life argument that pregnancy via violent rape is a gift from Jesus to its logical extreme - after all, it doesn't have to be the violent rape of the mother forced to give birth that is the price of the gift, it could be the violent rape of ANYONE, including prominent Republican Senators.

[Dark Sage]

It's flawed logic, assuming all women (people?) would welcome an unplanned rape-reminder baby with open arms, potentially destroying all goals, plans, relationships, health, and finances in the process. "Gift" indeed.

THANK you, Katie. That is exactly the point I try to make that the pro-life people don't get.

Edit: Oh, and Heald? I understand you were trying to make a satire there, but it was really in VERY poor taste.

[Roy Karrde]

It's flawed logic, assuming all women (people?) would welcome an unplanned rape-reminder baby with open arms, potentially destroying all goals, plans, relationships, health, and finances in the process. "Gift" indeed.

So lets say they carry the baby to term, and are forced to raise it, they are going to then shun and hurt the child either mentally or physically? That really makes them no better than the rapist, taking advantage of a innocent person that has no ability to really fight back.

By the way I am curious if we were to go to a child from a rape victim, who has been raised and loved, would the child agree they were not a gift from God? Would they consider themselves a horrible burden that has destroyed their mothers goals, plans, health, and finances? Would you be willing to tell a child those things?

[Katie]

So lets say they carry the baby to term,

Okay, so we're not talking about the right to abortion anymore

and are forced to raise it

is anyone calling for rape-impregnated women to be ineligible to put their kid up for adoption?

they are going to then shun and hurt the child either mentally or physically? That really makes them no better than the rapist, taking advantage of a innocent person that has no ability to really fight back.

True, but this is now an issue of child abuse rather than the woman's right to terminate the pregnancy before she gives birth. This is an issue that should be taken up with CPS, not part of an abortion platform and is not really relevant to the topic.

By the way I am curious if we were to go to a child from a rape victim, who has been raised and loved, would the child agree they were not a gift from God? Would they consider themselves a horrible burden that has destroyed their mothers goals, plans, health, and finances? Would you be willing to tell a child those things?

"Gift" is in the eye of the receiver. If the woman chooses to keep the kid and love it, absolutely. ("from God" depending on her personal views). What is absurd to me is assuming that all rape babies should be viewed as gifts.

I am not saying all rape victims should have abortions (why else would you bring up a raised and loved child unless you thought I was suggesting that?). I am saying they should have the choice to abort, adopt, or keep. You are saying they should have to keep, only. I would amend that to include adopt, but if it were such a blessed gift why would you ever give it away!!

[Roy Karrde]

Okay, so we're not talking about the right to abortion anymore

We can but it does not fit in this scenario as to if the child is a gift or not. Unless you want to consider a embryo a child.

is anyone calling for rape-impregnated women to be ineligible to put their kid up for adoption?

Again does not fit the scenario we are talking about how the mom would perceive the child. If it was adopted away there would be no perception of the child as a gift or not.

True, but this is now an issue of child abuse rather than the woman's right to terminate the pregnancy before she gives birth. This is an issue that should be taken up with CPS, not part of an abortion platform and is not really relevant to the topic.

Again I am speaking of how a woman would view a child, if they believe that the child is a gift from God or not, unless you want to say every embryo is a child you can, but then that opens up a whole different can of worms. Right now I am sticking with the woman being able to hold the child in her arms and look at it and say if it is a gift or not.

"Gift" is in the eye of the receiver. If the woman chooses to keep the kid and love it, absolutely. ("from God" depending on her personal views). What is absurd to me is assuming that all rape babies should be viewed as gifts.

Well we either view all human life as gifts or not.

I am not saying all rape victims should have abortions (why else would you bring up a raised and loved child unless you thought I was suggesting that?). I am saying they should have the choice to abort, adopt, or keep. You are saying they should have to keep, only. I would amend that to include adopt, but if it were such a blessed gift why would you ever give it away!!

People can give away gifts if they think it will go to a better household, as happens with animals all the time by people who receive gifts and move on. By the way I never said they should be forced to keep, merely trying to explain if a woman would perceive a child she was forced to raise as a gift or not.