Official Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince discussion topic (Spoilers)

[Systematic Revolution]

I'm just glad that this person didn't start with the "Oh *insert name here said *insert irrelevant phrase here* so Dumbledore IS still alive!"

Which was the jist of the Black theories.

[Chris 2.1]

I'm just plucking something from my brain here, and not thinking all too much, but the thing about phoenix' dying when their owners does sparked some intrigue.

Fawkes wasnt in the hospital wing during "The Phoenix Lament" so is it possible Fawkes died, bursting into flames somewhere else in the Castle? Unless it was seen in the funeral...

Because Rowling once said something like "Fawkes has not been in memories of Dumbledore's office so its safe to assume he is its original owner" or something, so either Fawkes is dead, or Dumbledore isn't.

[Weasel Overlord]

As far as I remember, Fawkes sang the lament at the funeral and then burst into flames over Dumbly's bed-thingy...

[Magmar]

Maybe it's a symbol of reincarnation? As the phoenix bursts into flames and is reincarnated, so has Dumbledore been? Or who knows.

[The Decapitated Mole]

Yeah, I especially love the way everyone ignores my post about Harry possibly being a horcrux, too.

Anywho, to continue along the lines of what I was saying on the last page, it wouldn't make any sense at all if Harry was the horcrux, or his scar. First of all, the murders of Lily and James wouldn'tve been very important to Voldemort, since he does that kind of thing on a routine basis. And even if they were important, making a horcrux out of harry before killing him would serve no purpose, as the horcrux would be worthless once Harry died, and since Voldemort wasn't planning on Harry living through it [and if he had died, he wouldn'tve had his scar] than why on earth would you make a horcrux out of a dead baby that's just going to rot and decay into nothing anyway?

My thoughts.

[Chris 2.1]

Good point TDM. I never liked to believe the scar wasa Horcrux, it just sounds too...weird and crazy. However I am beginning to think the Mirror of Erised is a Horcrux. The clawed feet that it has could mean its a Ravenclaw artefact - and since Ravenclaws are generally very intelligent knowledge-searchers, a mirror which shows your hearts desire is a perfect choice. And of course, Voldemort would want it. Wouldn't he?

[Magmar]

But when has Voldemort had the access to create a horcrux out of the mirror of Erised?

I think we're missing a horcrux. Something triggered Voldemort possessing Quirrell, and there's a possibility it was a horcrux.

[Weasel Overlord]

I didn't ingore your post about Harry being a Horcrux...

I don't think that Harry's scar can be a Horcrux...they're made when Voldy does an important killing, although he had just killed Lily and James...

Maybe he wanted to make Harry the final one, but he didn't end up killing him, the curse rebounded on himself instead, so foiling his plans for the final Horcrux...

...see!

Also, I think I remember Wormtail mentioning that Voldy possessed Quirrel to get hold of the Philosopher's Stone, and restore himself. Maybe he was going to kill Harry and then make the Mirror the Horcrux..but his plan failed, obviously...so much speculation!

[Systematic Revolution]

But when has Voldemort had the access to create a horcrux out of the mirror of Erised?

I think we're missing a horcrux. Something triggered Voldemort possessing Quirrell, and there's a possibility it was a horcrux.

Are we forgetting that Voldemort DID go to Hogwarts for schooling? It's very possible that the mirror could've been there when he was a student. And Dumbledore never gave an actual reason for "moving the mirror to a safer place" either.

Just providing the info, I don't necessarily believe that it's a horcrux, though I am definitely not eliminating the possibility entirely.

There's just got to be something so obvious we overlooked it. HAS to be.

[Magmar]

Voldemort put the mirror in the chamber of secrets because Voldemort would never be able to get the stone out of it. Only someone who wanted to find the stone, not use it, could find it, and that was the trick. Voldemort wanted immortality more than he wanted to simply HOLD the stone. Therefore he couldn't pass the final test. To get the stone, you had to want the stone, not its powers. And that's how come Harry could get it.

[Weasel Overlord]

Maybe the mirror was moved after Voldy started enquiring about Horcruxes...thing is, he probably had intentions of making them while he was at school, but he wouldn't have een able to make the mirror one as Dumbledore moved it... I'm probably just rambling here but hey!

And I'll be that the final Horcrux is something so darned obvious...what is there so far...?

*Hufflepuff's cup (is this what Dumbledore destroyed the first time? The thing that gave him his withered hand?)
*That other thing he stole from Hepzibah...I can't remember what it was!
*Possibly Nagini
*The secret diary (already destroyed)
*The Slytherin horcrux taken by Regulus from the cave (probably the only person viable with the initials R.A.B)
*Hs own soul that's still in his body...not a horcrux, but it's a bit of his soul...

and that leaves the last one...If the theory about the four houses is right, then something from Griffindor/Ravenclaw is needed, as has already been said...but I can't see it being Godric's sword and I can't remember anything particular of Ravenclaw's...

Maybe it could be...Wormtail? I don't know...or it might be that silver hand he made for him...

Ooo, that's a point...does anyone else feel slightly suspicious of Wormtail having a silver hand? I can bet that Lupin *sob* will croak it in the next book...unfortunately enough...I do love that guy!

[Magmar]

It's possible that Voldy could've made his final Horcrux right at that the ritual in GoF. After all, he had done a killing.

[Weasel Overlord]

I don't think that he'd count Cedric as an important killing...and he wasn't even counting on him being there, remember?

[Chris 2.1]

So many theories...one being the real Slytherin locket was something RAB (I'm assumng it IS Regulus Black) took and stashed away in Grimmauld...although, didn't he run away from home whenn he became a death eater? So maybe it is somewhere else...this HAS to be connected to Sirius somehow!

[Systematic Revolution]

And I'll be that the final Horcrux is something so darned obvious...what is there so far...?

*Hufflepuff's cup (is this what Dumbledore destroyed the first time? The thing that gave him his withered hand?)
*That other thing he stole from Hepzibah...I can't remember what it was!
*Possibly Nagini
*The secret diary (already destroyed)
*The Slytherin horcrux taken by Regulus from the cave (probably the only person viable with the initials R.A.B)
*Hs own soul that's still in his body...not a horcrux, but it's a bit of his soul...

The other thing he got from Hepzibah WAS the Slytherin locket, so that technically still leaves two.

[Magmar]

I think Regulus destroyed the Slytherin horcrux already. Destroying a horcrux seems to take a lot out of somebody, it left Dumbledore with a withered hand after all...

[Weasel Overlord]

But Voldemort hunted him down and killed him nastily for changing his mind about being a death eater...

[Magmar]

Or maybe Voldemort, being the legilimens he is, read Regulus's mind and found out that he knew about the horcruxes?

We don't KNOW what happened to Regulus, all we hear is rumor. But the note in the fake Horcrux just verifies that someone destroyed the slytherin horcrux already.

[Systematic Revolution]

I think we need to really open our minds to figure out what they are.

Hufflepuff's Cup
Slytherin's Locket (Possibly the one found in 12 Grimmauld Place? Unopenable... Horcrux possibly destroyed)
The Diary (Horcrux destroyed)
The piece still left in his body
Marvolo's Ring (Horcrux destroyed)

The other two, have suggested so far could be Harry himself, Harry's scar, the invisibility cloak, the silver hand, something of Ravenclaw, something of Gryffindor, I think someone suggested Snape, or Wormtail...

I do not want to eliminate the possibility of Harry's scar being a Horcrux. Not Harry himself, just the scar. If it's the scar, Harry's death wouldn't make a difference. The scar itself would still be there. It has already been said that Voldemort left a piece of him with Harry that night. I would consider this a strong possibility.

I would like to throw up the possibility that the ring bearing the Black family crest could be a Horcrux. If it was Regulus who took the locket, and if it was Regulus who wore the ring, it is quite likely that Voldemort could've turned it into a Horcrux as well. The death of Regulus would be quite significant, as he was a traitor and knew of Voldemort's Horcruxes.

The death of Myrtle, though not directly by Riddle, could be quite significant. We know that the Basilisk killed Myrtle, and it has been emphasised quite a bit since book 2 that the opening of the Chamber of Secrets 50 years ago caused a death. Something of Myrtle's could be a Horcrux.

Another artifact that could be of Gryffindor is the Griffin knocker on Dumbledore's (Now McGonagle's) door. Don't know though. Just throwing that possibility out there, as well.

We also know that places that are likely to contain Horcruxes are Hogwarts itself, the Muggle orphanage (That's a huge one), and of course the Riddle house. Then there is Godric's Hollow. I believe it's quite likely that Harry will find one here since not only did his parents die here, Voldemort lost power here. It is also called GODRIC'S Hollow. As in Godric Gryffindor. If there's another Gryffindor artifact out there, it's probably here.

Logically, if Lucious had a Horcrux, Snape probably has one in his house at Spinner's End. I think that is another logical place for one, just simply because Snape is supposed to be Voldemort's right-hand man.

Perhaps Wormtail has one too. Unlikely, but like I said, we need to be open-minded.

Also, Susan Bones' grandparents were killed by Voldemort. As was her mother, if I'm not mistaken. It's clear that the Bones family is a natural target for Voldemort. Then again we don't know how significant these deaths are.

Also another very important point. What did Harry's and Neville's parents do to "thrice defy Voldemort"? This question is yet to be answered, and I feel that is deeply significant somehow.

More ideas as I think of them...

[Magmar]

I back you up. I want to know how they denied Voldemort three times.

Reminds me of how some bible dude denied Jesus three times.

[Systematic Revolution]

Do you remember the name of the guy who denied Jesus 3 times?

[Magmar]

i looked it up
thank you skepticsannotatedbible.com
it's peter
..pettigrew????
Hmm.

[Weasel Overlord]

Pettigrew eh? Inter-esting...all along I've been forgetting about Marvolo's ring...I need to read the book again! lol

As for Neville's parents, well, they were Aurors...I reckon that's enough for Voldemort to want to kill them since they're trying to kill him and all.

I can't see Snape being a Horcrux...it's just too unlikely, although he may be hiding one at Spinner's End...and wasn't it Dumbledore who gave Harry the Invisibility Cloak?

At the beginning of Philosopher's Stone, McGonagall asked whether Dumbledore could getr ris of Harry's scar, but he said that scars sometimes come in useful. I reckon that he'd have got rid of the scar if he suspected it to be a Horcrux...

I like the Godric's Hollow theory...it seems likely that there could be a Horcrux there.

I'm wondering whether all this speculation is going to go on until book 7 comes out...that woud be amusing!

[Chris 2.1]

I can't see a person being a Horcrux. Say snape was. Well what if he was killed when the Death Eaters raided the school? Then Voldemort would be weakened. What if, simlarly, Snape (Or just a person who was a Horcrux) commited suicide? It's far too risky.

Systematic, some great points there.

[Magmar]

I doubt a human being would be a horcrux, too. I think Rowling is going to pull a surprise out of nowhere. A new concept, some new magic that Hermione will find in some book will probably lead to the discovery of the mystery horcrux. Whatever words Rowling puts in Dumbledore's mouth generally come true.

[mr_pikachu]

I can't see a person being a Horcrux. Say snape was. Well what if he was killed when the Death Eaters raided the school? Then Voldemort would be weakened. What if, simlarly, Snape (Or just a person who was a Horcrux) commited suicide? It's far too risky.

Actually, I can see a logical way it could work, if it is indeed Harry.

Think about it. According to Dumbledore, Voldemort believes that the only person who can destroy him is Harry. And the only way that he can be destroyed is if all the Horcruxes are destroyed first. If Harry is the Horcrux and is destroyed, then in Voldemort's mind, he may have given up his last Horcrux, but the only wizard who can ever vanquish him is also gone. If Harry lives, then so does the final Horcrux, and thus Voldemort's still invincible. Thus, Voldemort believes that no matter what is done, he cannot be defeated. He may be wrong in that regard, but that may be a reason for him to have made Harry the final Horcrux.

And as for what counts as a major murder, who is to say? I won't even try to predict what explanation Rowling could pull out of her hat in that regard.

Again, this is all clearly speculation, but I think this logical argument is a way that my theory could work.

[Systematic Revolution]

Mr_pikachu, I commend your brilliance. I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw that.

I also agree that it's probably not a person, and if it is... Harry or Harry's scar is more likely than Snape or Wormtail.

[Razola]

I'm pretty sure only inanimate objects can be Horocruxes.

Also, why is there suddenly a limit now? He's been having a grand time killing lately, and I don't recall the book stating on limit on Horocruxes. He loses one, and just kills someone and makes another. Are souls suddenly a certain size? Did Voldly have a skinny soul? Does this mean a fat dark wizard could be practically immortal?

[Magmar]

Slughorn horcruxes galore. hooray.

[The Blue Avenger]

I'm pretty sure only inanimate objects can be Horocruxes.

It's not proof, but didn't Dumbledore suspect Nagini of being a Horcrux? If a snake could be a Horcrux, surely it's not too farfetched to have a person be one.

[Chris 2.1]

Dumbledore did also say how highly dangerous it is for even something as intelligent as an animal being a Horcrux. Therefore making a person a Horcrux would be asking for trouble. And I can imagine a spell which implanted a portion of your soul into someone else would be excruciatingly painful.

And Razola, Voldemort probably won't know about his Horcrux's being destroyed, I think Dumbledore said something about his soul being so immersed in evil it would not detect if any portions of itself were destroyed. I mean R.A.B's note to Voldemort never got found by Voldemort himself, so it's safe to assume he doesn't 'check up' on his Horcrux's.


Small note: Saw COS film today, and wondered: wouldnt Tom Riddle want to keep a hold of the diary so that Harry didn't destroy it? Or did he not know by then that it was a future Horcrux?

[Razola]

And Razola, Voldemort probably won't know about his Horcrux's being destroyed, I think Dumbledore said something about his soul being so immersed in evil it would not detect if any portions of itself were destroyed. I mean R.A.B's note to Voldemort never got found by Voldemort himself, so it's safe to assume he doesn't 'check up' on his Horcrux's.

Eh...then I find this whole thing to be poor writing. It's established that Voldemort, like most would-be Dictators, is paranoid to a degree. I mean, he gets one prophecy from an idiot and look what he does. To say that he doesn't even have some sort of magical security that alerts him, "HEY YOU LOST A LIFE. FIVE MANS LEFT." is very out of character.

Voldemort does not seem like a person that is just relaxed and content with the world. He is very afraid of losing his power, even more so since he has lost it before.

About living Horocruxes, my guess is that people have their own souls, which no doubt has some risk. Harry very well might have been a failed attempt at a living Horocrux.

[mr_pikachu]

Eh...then I find this whole thing to be poor writing. It's established that Voldemort, like most would-be Dictators, is paranoid to a degree. I mean, he gets one prophecy from an idiot and look what he does. To say that he doesn't even have some sort of magical security that alerts him, "HEY YOU LOST A LIFE. FIVE MANS LEFT." is very out of character.

Voldemort does not seem like a person that is just relaxed and content with the world. He is very afraid of losing his power, even more so since he has lost it before.

A valid point. The only explanation that makes sense to me would be that the loss of a Horcrux simply cannot be confirmed; that once a portion of a soul leaves a person, it goes beyond the realm of traditional magic and cannot be tracked by such means. Or something. Of course, that would leave a lot of plotholes in other areas (such as just how the heck they found the Horcrux or will find the others). But it's the best I've got. Meh.

[Razola]

While you might be unable to keep tabs on the Horocrux, you can still keep tabs on the object itself. Shit, even "muggles" can keep mundane things secure.