Pokemon Diamond and Pearl (debate).

[frylock]

these IVs.... never payed much attention, but from what I hear they suck, this may be why my lombre was so horrible and couldn't attack worth crap.... Oh well..

As for EVs I was wondering how do you know how many EVs you need before its maxed for each pokemon and its level?

and also with IVs: how do you know anything about them, should you catch the pokemon 10 times and figure the stats and natures effects, because if so forget that I quit competetitve play, (I've never done it anyway)!

EDIT: I figured out these EVs but still have no clue on IVs, but I think I have the patience to do that, in fact I am!!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!! I will max out EVs and smash all pokemon in my way! prepare for battle (just kidding but I will play around with it!)

[Elec Man EXE]

Everyone seems to hate IVs so much.... do you really want 2 given pokemon to be IDENTICAL to one another if they have the same personality, as far as stats? That seems incredibly boring to me, not to mention unrealisitc. 2 dogs of the same breed are not going to be exact duplicates of one another, both possessing 100% equal skill when it comes to all things.

As for EVs... I don't see the problem there either. Maybe its a bit too much as it is now (though really, using Vitamins + Macho Brace lowers the time taken to get your pokemon EVs down to about an hour, I should know having trained 3 full boxes of pokemon with EVs and all). But it lets you specialize a pokemon, and gives real competitors an edge, just as real life. If you've got 2 people, 1 who practices the bare minimum (leveling) and one who does a LOT of practicing (EVs), obviously the 1 who does more practice is going to be better unless the first has an innate ability in whatever the 2 are practicing for.

[Number1ChanseyFan]

[color=magenta]Meh, IVs don't bother me a whole lot, and I like the personality features that were introduced. IV's really aren't all that different from the DV's in the older games anyways. The EVs are what kinda irritates me. It isn't so much the time involved that it takes to EV train, that doesn't bother me at all. I just hope to find a shiny while I EV train!! The thing that I really hate is that each Pokémon is only allowed 510 total EVs. If they could all get their 252 EVs in every stat, (or at least every meaningful stat for that Pokémon.) then that would be great. However, the way it is, just about every Pokémon has to be specialized, either relying on physical attacks or special attacks, as opposed to a mixture of both. And then you have to decide whether you want your Pokémon to be able to do a ton of damage, and then faint after it gets attacked once or twice, or if you want a Pokémon to be able to take a couple of hits, and not really do any damage at all. I think they are making things a little too complicated, and trying to make the game a little too true to life. I mean yeah, in real life, if Pokémon were real, an Alakazam's Fire Punch probably shouldn't hurt as much as a Machamp's or a Hitmonchan's... but jeez, it doesn't have to be literal, it is a game afterall. The way they keep changing the battle system, pretty soon they are going to start offering an Intro to Pokémon course at college. XD

[Poryhedron]

[color=magenta]It isn't so much the time involved that it takes to EV train, that doesn't bother me at all. I just hope to find a shiny while I EV train!! The thing that I really hate is that each Pokémon is only allowed 510 total EVs. If they could all get their 252 EVs in every stat, (or at least every meaningful stat for that Pokémon.) then that would be great. However, the way it is, just about every Pokémon has to be specialized, either relying on physical attacks or special attacks, as opposed to a mixture of both. And then you have to decide whether you want your Pokémon to be able to do a ton of damage, and then faint after it gets attacked once or twice, or if you want a Pokémon to be able to take a couple of hits, and not really do any damage at all. I think they are making things a little too complicated, and trying to make the game a little too true to life. I mean yeah, in real life, if Pokémon were real, an Alakazam's Fire Punch probably shouldn't hurt as much as a Machamp's or a Hitmonchan's... but jeez, it doesn't have to be literal, it is a game afterall. The way they keep changing the battle system, pretty soon they are going to start offering an Intro to Pokémon course at college. XD

Agreed. I don't mind the fact that you have to earn better scores through effort; I just think the classic Stat EXP was better than Advance Gen's EV System.

[frylock]

IVs have to be in the game, but I think they should only effect stats earlier on in the game. (you shouldn't find out at the end of the game that your team is garbage because the just are.)

[Razola]

IVs have to be in the game,

Why?

[rinku]

IV's DON'T have to be in the game in any absolute sense. But the concept was a key part of the original game design and is highly unlikely to ever be changed in general terms. The game designers intend that there is variation between individual pokémon of a species that is out of the trainer's control. It leads to the sub-games of breeding for better stats and/or searching for wild pokémon with superior stats. It gives an important tool to a knowledgable trainer over a casual or ignorant player.

You don't need to have a deep knowledge of how it all works to make it work. Apart from your initial starter and legends, you just catch or breed a bunch of the species you want and use the one with the best stats (the Brawly method). Now, having said that, some kind of field gadget to help evaluate wild ones would be great. Even one that worked on IV point totals in a "this is a very strong pokémon/this is a very weak pokémon" manner would be good. Hope we get one.

[Heald]

IV's DON'T have to be in the game in any absolute sense. But the concept was a key part of the original game design and is highly unlikely to ever be changed in general terms. The game designers intend that there is variation between individual pokémon of a species that is out of the trainer's control. It leads to the sub-games of breeding for better stats and/or searching for wild pokémon with superior stats. It gives an important tool to a knowledgable trainer over a casual or ignorant player.

You don't need to have a deep knowledge of how it all works to make it work. Apart from your initial starter and legends, you just catch or breed a bunch of the species you want and use the one with the best stats (the Brawly method). Now, having said that, some kind of field gadget to help evaluate wild ones would be great. Even one that worked on IV point totals in a "this is a very strong pokémon/this is a very weak pokémon" manner would be good. Hope we get one.

Trying to find the right Pokemon or even the right Pokemon with the right kind of Personality or stats or whatever is arguably the very worst part of Pokemon. I hate having to grow through the same patch of grass for about an hour trying to find what I want and so does everyone else. Why doesn't Nintendo just realise that it is a waste of time, cut out the middle man and just make all the Pokemon you can catch as strong as each other.

The fact is, anything that you put in a game to make it more challenging but making it far less enjoyable in the process is terrible game design. That is Video Game Design 101 - make your game challenging, but make it fun. To be honest, going around grass for half an hour doesn't make a game challenging or fun, it just makes it annoying. However, because Nintendo can get away with shitty game design as long as they slap Pokemon on it, they really couldn't give two shits about the gamers.

[Elec Man EXE]

If you don't like trying to find stronger pokemon you don't HAVE to Heald. Its not vital to the game, and its perfectly beatable without even knowing that IVs exist at all.

The only time IV's become vital is when you go into competetive battling. And (to me anyway) its perfectly acceptable to have to work a little harder when your playing against other people, and thats how it is in everything. You really want to be successful competitively, you have to do a bit of extra work. Being an RPG, there's really no "practice" involved like there would be in something like a FPS, so to similate that you've got IVs/EVs. Something to give an advantage to those who are really "serious" about it.

You just want to play and beat the game, IV's don't matter in the slightest except for making it a tad easier. Going to fight real people? The ones who are going to spend the most time are going to be most successful.

The problem seems to be (and this is not to insault you or anyone else, just an observation) that players want to be instantly competetive at the highest level, with no real effort on their part other than simply leveling the pokemon. Even in other games, thats not the case.

I can't pick up a game, play through the single player mode, then go into multiplayer and expect to be as good as the top players who have been playing multiplayer for months.

[frylock]

Trying to find the right Pokemon or even the right Pokemon with the right kind of Personality or stats or whatever is arguably the very worst part of Pokemon. I hate having to grow through the same patch of grass for about an hour trying to find what I want and so does everyone else. Why doesn't Nintendo just realise that it is a waste of time, cut out the middle man and just make all the Pokemon you can catch as strong as each other.

The fact is, anything that you put in a game to make it more challenging but making it far less enjoyable in the process is terrible game design. That is Video Game Design 101 - make your game challenging, but make it fun. To be honest, going around grass for half an hour doesn't make a game challenging or fun, it just makes it annoying. However, because Nintendo can get away with shitty game design as long as they slap Pokemon on it, they really couldn't give two shits about the gamers.

I do agree, I think that IVs shouldn't mean that you have to look for hours to find the pokemon with the perfect stats and such, but I do think that if you run into a level 5 poochyena and then run into another level 5 poochyena they should be a little different. The difference between the two though, should be only when you catch them. the first poochyena shouldn't be better all the way throughout the game, just early on in it. Basically IVs are a way to mix up the game in a way, but they shouldn't have any long term effects.

[Poryhedron]

I do agree, I think that IVs shouldn't mean that you have to look for hours to find the pokemon with the perfect stats and such, but I do think that if you run into a level 5 poochyena and then run into another level 5 poochyena they should be a little different. The difference between the two though, should be only when you catch them. the first poochyena shouldn't be better all the way throughout the game, just early on in it. Basically IVs are a way to mix up the game in a way, but they shouldn't have any long term effects.

I don't see how that makes any sense at all. Doesn't it kind of ruin the entire point of IVs? Why would they go away?

[Foguet]

The only thing I hate more than IV's is Effect Spore. It is so boring, not only to find the Pokémon with better stats, but to give it the necessary EV! Especially when you're trying to focus on a certain stat. For example, f you want to train Alakazam, it's completely forbidden to battle things like Machamp, Banette, Salamence, Armaldo, because they'll just fill you up with useless Attack EV... so you lose all those Exp points you could get. And if you want to train a Machamp, never, ever fight something like a Magneton, Jynx, or Vileplume, for the opposite reason. The worst of it all is when you're looking for just one kind of EV and it seems that all Pokémon who give out that particular EV have disappeared.

I hate IV and EV to death. Nevertheless, I wouldn't eliminate them. Why? For the same reason that some of you have listed above. With EV, you have to work hard to get the strongest Pokémon, and you can be proud of your job when you beat someone who only bothered to level up the Pokémon. It's like cycling, or football, or any kind of sport; you can't train once a week and then expect to be as good as those who train every day.

[Poryhedron]

It is so boring, not only to find the Pokémon with better stats, but to give it the necessary EV! Especially when you're trying to focus on a certain stat. For example, f you want to train Alakazam, it's completely forbidden to battle things like Machamp, Banette, Salamence, Armaldo, because they'll just fill you up with useless Attack EV... so you lose all those Exp points you could get. And if you want to train a Machamp, never, ever fight something like a Magneton, Jynx, or Vileplume, for the opposite reason. The worst of it all is when you're looking for just one kind of EV and it seems that all Pokémon who give out that particular EV have disappeared.

This is the beauty of the old effort system, Stat EXP. You didn't have to worry about putting effort into the wrong stat because there was no cap on total effort. You got all the good things you mentioned about having EVs, without any of the bad points in the above quote.

[rinku]

This is the beauty of the old effort system, Stat EXP. You didn't have to worry about putting effort into the wrong stat because there was no cap on total effort. You got all the good things you mentioned about having EVs, without any of the bad points in the above quote.

I prefer the current setup *with* the Emerald fix to allow you to remove unwanted effort. It seems a total waste of time to have to do all that training *just* to get back to a level playing field (i.e. all stats maxed out). May as well just battle with freshly caught wild ones. The Advanced version of it makes trainers *design* their pokémon's final stats, which is a good thing IMHO.

[Foguet]

The problem with the Emerald fix is that, even though you can "delete" unwanted EVs, you've still got to obtain the ones you need. And for example, SpD EVs are not so common, so it's still hard work to find them. But I still prefer things this way, because with Stat Exp, two Pokémon with the same DV always end up being clones, while this doesn't happen if you are forced to spread EVs.

[Elec Man EXE]

All the effort values have easy-to-get areas to get the EVs.

Attack: Shuppets in Mt. Pyre
Special Attack: Spinda on Route 113
Defense: Clamperl, Underwater near Sootopolis
Special Defense: Tentacool, pretty much everywhere you go while Surfing
Speed: Zubats in pretty much any cave, and exclusively in Altering Cave
HP: Whismur in the tunnel at Verdanturf

All of the above are very common (or sometimes the only thing you find), and you can rack up your desired EVs very quickly. And 4 of the 6 are quite weak (either bad defense, low level, or both), so you can start your EV training at a low level to minimize the amount of unwanted EVs you get before you finish your EV training.

[rinku]

HP is even easier - Marril give 2HP each. I use that pond just north of Mauville; even with the lower encounter rate of water, it's quicker there.

My preferred SpDef training area is R114. Swablu and Lotad give 1 point, and Lombre give 2. Not such a good place on Ruby, but great on Sapphire and pretty good on Emerald.

[Foguet]

All the effort values have easy-to-get areas to get the EVs.

Attack: Shuppets in Mt. Pyre
Special Attack: Spinda on Route 113
Defense: Clamperl, Underwater near Sootopolis
Special Defense: Tentacool, pretty much everywhere you go while Surfing
Speed: Zubats in pretty much any cave, and exclusively in Altering Cave
HP: Whismur in the tunnel at Verdanturf

All of the above are very common (or sometimes the only thing you find), and you can rack up your desired EVs very quickly. And 4 of the 6 are quite weak (either bad defense, low level, or both), so you can start your EV training at a low level to minimize the amount of unwanted EVs you get before you finish your EV training.

Try that when you want to get 252 Speed EV on some Pokémon. That means at the very least 126 very annoying battles with Zubat. Same goes for Spinda, Clamperl, Tentacool...

[Phoenixsong]

If I may...

Speed EVs: The best place to train for Speed is Route 118. Surf east of Mauville and run around in that clump of grass before the supertall grass of Route 119... the only thing you can find there that DOESN'T raise Speed is Kecleon, and that has about a 1% chance of appearing. Wingull, Electrike and Zigzagoon each give 1 Speed EV; Manectric and Linoone give 2. If you have Macho Brace and Pokérus you shouldn't need to fight any more than 63 Pokémon total--less if you find a lot of Manectrics/Linoones--and if you gave your Pokémon 10 Carbos first, then you don't need to fight more than 38.

Special Attack (Emerald only): Spinda's great and all (I'm starting to get sick of the things from all the SA training I've had to do the past couple of months), but don't forget Slugma. Everywhere I read about SA training people never mention the Slugmas you can find in Emerald, which also give 1 SA EV. Of course, if you're in RS then you're stuck with Spinda, but still...

Defense (Emerald only): The Magma Hideout in the Jagged Pass has absolutely nothing in it but Geodude (1 Defense), Graveler and Torkoal (both give 2 Defense). There's no place better for Defense training.

Attack (Emerald only): An alternative to the Shuppets is Routes 122 and 123, between Fortree and Lilycove. While you don't find exclusively Pokémon that raise attack, you can find Poochyena and Mightyena in abundance (1 Attack and 2 Attack, respectively), more Shuppets in Route 123 and the occasional Absol (2 Attack) in Route 122's supertall grass. Like I said, it's not *exclusively* Attack EVs, but because there are two Pokémon that give out 2 EVs sometimes that goes faster for me. Also good if you normally train in Mt. Pyre and will explode if you see another Shuppet.

So yeah, most of those only work in Emerald. Then again, because of places like that and the added effects of the Kelpsy, Pomeg etc. berries, Emerald is just plain the best game to EV train in if you've got it. If not, well... you can make do.


Did anyone see those silhouettes on Serebii? That Mukkuru thing that might be the "new Pidgey" and that... other one? Maybe it's just me, but I look at that second one and think "lion cub". I hope so...

[Silent Dragonfly]

Did anyone see those silhouettes on Serebii? That Mukkuru thing that might be the "new Pidgey" and that... other one? Maybe it's just me, but I look at that second one and think "lion cub". I hope so...

Maybe Aipom will stop being filled with so much suckage now that it can evolve

[Phoenixsong]

No one said it evolves from Aipom; only the ears look like it. The rest of it doesn't resemble any sort of primate at all, and it appears to be small. I HIGHLY doubt it evolves from anything, let alone Aipom. We'll see, though.

[rinku]

Try that when you want to get 252 Speed EV on some Pokémon. That means at the very least 126 very annoying battles with Zubat. Same goes for Spinda, Clamperl, Tentacool...

Um... you can purchase 100 effort with vitamins, then it's just a matter of 76 battles with the Macho Brace, or 38 if you have pokérus. And as Phoenixsong mentioned, R118 gives better effort than Zubats. In any case, Golbats give 2 speed effort - there are planty of caves where you can reliably get 2 base speed effort per battle.

[Elec Man EXE]

All of those work, but I try to get my EVs with the lowest-level opponents as possible, just so I can mindlessly spam attacks without paying much attention (watching TV at the same time usually).

Plus, I like the lower levels because then you can kill them in 1 hit, and in that way you can use your PP to help count your EVs instead of just keeping track in your head.

[rinku]

Well, I have to admit, I usually have a fully trained, high level lead to do the damage and the trainee on EXP.SHARE with pokérus, just so I don't have to concentrate and can keep track with PP. But after you've trained up the first stat, the trainee is often good enough to take the lead with Macho Brace.

Oh, and my favorite Attack training spot is fishing on R118. Pure Sharpedo and Carvharna, which a suitable lead (fast electric for example) can take down easily. Good XP too.

[Sceptile_Master]

I don't see the point in alot of these arguments against EVs. It probably takes less time to EV train a pokemon than it does to battle the elite four 25 times putting the pokemon in the PC after everytime then withdrawing it. Because the thing is it makes compettive battling full of strategy. Most people that are just battling against their friends don't care because both your pokemon are just gonna be random anyways if you haven't EV trained it and all that jazz. It makes it so pokemon isn't justa kids game. It gives it strategy. So is it for nerds to do some 10 year old simple math caculation? Erm... welcome to RPGs, and if you're not going to be doing high level competitive battling then why the hell do you care? It's not like the game is so uber hard that you can't do it with just going through not caring. Err I just don't see the validicity behind half of these attacks against the current system. I mean whats with the style: "I hate trying to find a pokemon with great IVs for like an hour... why do nintendo do it?" But then "Oh I don't do any compettive battling". Then why are you spending an hour of your time looking for that pokemon with the good IVs. So you can post a pwnage RMT on a forums or somehting. Just please explain all this too me.

And don't take this as a flame please (because it isn't), I just genuinly (forgotten how to spell it) don't get it.

[frylock]

What'd really be great is if Chanseys/BLisseys become extinct in the next game.

[Blademaster]

I doubt it - check out Serebii.net, the 4th Generation section.

Not only does it look like Chansey and Blissey will be returning, but there looks like there's gonna be a Baby version of Chansey, which looks like a chibi-Chansey-Igglybuff combo in a cereal bowl.

Also new to the family is a cat with a boomerand for a head - let's throw it and see what happens.

[Dark Eevolution]

Ok, I guess it's ok to have your own opinion, but once again I have to repeat this: GSC was the peak, the top, the highest point in pokémon videogames. There won't be anything better than that. 100 new pokemon were added, many of which, btw, continue to be standard (can you say blissey, skarmory, tyranitar, lanturn etc?) RS generation brought the remaining changes that should have been in GSC, about gameplay that is. Of course, the storyline wasn't the most deep one, but it had all the elements to make it good. And yeah... gosh, I recently played Stadium 2 with my brother, and it feels so much better than colosseum... I mean, you can battle a lot, but when you're tired, or simply you aren't in the mood fo battling, just go and play minigames... that was so much fun!... the one thing I agree with you is that Munchlax doesn't give many hopes...

I'd like to see the same play system (up to emerald, of course). Orre should be forgotten forever... it's not even a Japanese region as Kanto/Johto/Hoenn are! or either they should give us the three regions and a new one (that would be sooo long, but still good) or a new one, but much, much larger...

450 or so pokemon seem about right... I think they should stop at 500 hundred... anymore than that would be a pain.

The one thing I would really ask Nintendo: Don't forget the players that have been around RBY days... it's been awful with RS generation. Many of us are being left out. They're just focusing on bringing new kids; ok, it's always good to do that. But that's not the only market. And pls, stop making us spend so much money, 5 GBA versions, and one *coughcrappycough* GC game are a lot of money.

I understand Rinku's point, but you're only watching one side of the equation: you have, ahem, kids to play with. The only person I know that plays pokemon is my brother, and he's not as interested in the game as me. So it's rather difficult to find someone who plays pokemon around here, let alone to become friends with them... also, I don't have that much free time either I rather go to sleep, or study what I'm supposed to, instead of going to some place to trade pokemon, it's just a waste of time. You should be wondering then: why am I replying this post then? because, sadly, this is my only interaction with other players, besides my brother and online battling.

I agree with you. GSC introduced many great pokemon, especially my favorites Umbreon and Espeon.

To call GSC crappy would make little sense.

And yes, I also agree that they need to remember the old school players. There are a good couple of
pokemon that I think should not really be introduced. It's as if they're just added to appease younger
children.

As for Hoenn being forgotten, I would like to adventure across a new world. But a bigger world, kinda
like Johto and Kanto (RBY/FR/LG Kanto), all in one. Or some other place too. I know that's kinda asking
alot, but the truth of the matter is that PKMN games seem to be getting faster and faster to beat.

And I am honestly sick of promotions. The Jirachi one excluded because that was really equal opportunity.

But all these "Go to Pokemon Center in NYC" needs to stop.

Especially these darn ticket stuff. It was bad enough when I had to leave my Lugia and Ho-Oh behind
on Silver, but to not really have a chance to catch new ones except through some ticket I'd probably never
get except off Ebay is asking too much.

Also! There needs to seriously be some online play going on here. Program some HUGE MMORPG where
you can hook up your games to and your pokemon will be saved on it like how you register them on Colosseum,
or have them hooked up like on the Stadiums, where you didn't have to register, you were actually
using THEM not some (practically) clones.

IMO, that should have been done LONG AGO. They have had more than enough time.

I've seen pokemon fans come and go and I've still loved the series, it's time to reward the loyal trainers.

[mr_pikachu]

As for Hoenn being forgotten, I would like to adventure across a new world. But a bigger world, kinda
like Johto and Kanto (RBY/FR/LG Kanto), all in one. Or some other place too. I know that's kinda asking
alot, but the truth of the matter is that PKMN games seem to be getting faster and faster to beat.

Yeah, that was why I was disappointed with RSE. GSC was brilliant, as it combined the old land and a new one for much vaster exploration and gameplay. RSE took place in a single region, which did seem a little constrained.


And I am honestly sick of promotions. The Jirachi one excluded because that was really equal opportunity.

But all these "Go to Pokemon Center in NYC" needs to stop.

Especially these darn ticket stuff. It was bad enough when I had to leave my Lugia and Ho-Oh behind
on Silver, but to not really have a chance to catch new ones except through some ticket I'd probably never
get except off Ebay is asking too much.

I hate promotions too, but remember that at least there are other ways to legally get Ho-oh and Lugia... even if they involve buying more stuff. Colosseum and XD make Ho-oh and Lugia accessible, and soon they'll be tradeable through Wi-fi. That aspect should really help. The idiocy with the tickets, though, has got to stop. I haven't had a Pokemon tour in my state for years, so what am I supposed to do? Drive for 300 miles during school to get a chunk of data? Ehh.


Also! There needs to seriously be some online play going on here. Program some HUGE MMORPG where
you can hook up your games to and your pokemon will be saved on it like how you register them on Colosseum,
or have them hooked up like on the Stadiums, where you didn't have to register, you were actually
using THEM not some (practically) clones.

IMO, that should have been done LONG AGO. They have had more than enough time.

I've seen pokemon fans come and go and I've still loved the series, it's time to reward the loyal trainers.

I couldn't agree with you more. An MMORPG would be a huge hit, and it would finally offer a way to train and battle 24/7. Hell, that would be the only MMORPG I would even consider paying a periodic fee to play, and I could pretty much guarantee that I would do it. Desperate fans have created their own, fairly poor (and technically illegal) Pokemon MMORPGs. It's about time that Nintendo saw the light.

Plus, it would be the perfect opportunity to add new gameplay aspects to Pokemon battling. For years, I've wanted to have a game where you didn't just choose your Pokemon's moves and wait for the effect, but you actually had real-time commands, reactions, etc. And none of the sit-back-and-wait-for-your-turn ATB junk, either. Active moving is essential. I would imagine a good realization of this would have battle mechanics similar to those of some of the new Legend of Zelda games. Three dimensions of movement, active choices about attacking, defending, healing, or evading... this would provide infinite possibilities and would ensure that no battle would be the same. (Plus, it would require trainers to become skillful themselves - someone who doesn't have a feel for the active mechanics could lose to a trainer with a vastly inferior Pokemon, where they would normally win just by choosing moves to blast away.)

Yeah. I really like this idea.

[SoulflameNinetales]

Unfortuneally, the idea that Nintendo would create an MMORPG based on Pokemon is most likely not going to happen. But i can always hope...

Thro this sounds like a absolute idiotic thing to do, maybe we can make and send a petition(did I spell it right) or something? At least let Nintendo know what the fans want?

[mr_pikachu]

Hey, it's worked (to a limited extent) before. I signed one demanding more Pokemon music CDs be produced to match the songs that were being created. They didn't do that, but they released some of the newer songs on iTunes. I'd definitely participate in an MMORPG petition.