ASB Attack List Beta: All Versions

[Dark Dragonite]

Actually, a lot of pokemon who don't need to be in the water can learn splash:

Grumpig/Spoink
Azurill
Hoppip/Skiploom/Jumpluff
Wynaut
Cleffa/Clefairy/Clefable
Delibird
Poliwag/Whirl/Wrath/Toed

now, some of those non fish pokes could pull a could rouse if in the water, but I think seeing a Clefable, or Wynaut splashing on the ground would confuse the crud out of a pokemon fighting it, I mean, what would you think about seeing it, you would be distracted/laughing/confused by it.

[Ultimate Charizard]

I think we should give Splash some sort of effect. If only for Novelty.
Maybe in 2 v 2 battles if a Confused pokemon sees its partner splashing it can stop and glare. Kinda like 'WTF ARE YOU DOING!" breaking confusion etc.

[Hatake Kakashi]

Perhaps Rest could be adapted to be an Endurance Recharger rather than a HP recharge. Alot of poeple dont allow Rest to be used anyway but if we change it (the games dont take into account endurance so we wont see anything else that would do this) then we wouldnt need to see people going "and this turn, dont attack just take a break" and would also eliminate the battles that are lost by tiredness (which i hate winning btw).
It also introduces things like Sleep Talk and Snore as more strategic rather than a last resort when your put to sleep (which rarely lasts long these days anyway)

PP is Energy.

Rest does not touch a moves PP. Thus, HP restore.

[Ultimate Charizard]

I know the literal translation of Rest.
What im reffering to is that most battles Ban recovery moves anyway and the situation with Endurance has gotten a bit silly with Battles being decided on Whos more tired rather than whos winning HP wise.
There are no PP recovery moves in the game so why not translate it into recovering endurance instead. Maybe this could mean Spite affects EN instead of HP.

[Dark Dragonite]

Mike, PP is an inaccurate thing in ASB, I mean, moves like Recover can be used what 15, or 20 times in the game, how many times can you do it in ASB without fainting? 1, maybe 2 if that's all you do all battle?
I aggree with UC on Rest, to be honest.

[Hatake Kakashi]

I know the literal translation of Rest.
What im reffering to is that most battles Ban recovery moves anyway and the situation with Endurance has gotten a bit silly with Battles being decided on Whos more tired rather than whos winning HP wise.
There are no PP recovery moves in the game so why not translate it into recovering endurance instead. Maybe this could mean Spite affects EN instead of HP.

Spite DOES effect EN instead of HP.

As for energy going too fast, I agree. It's way too much. Some attacks take 10 or 15 energy the FIRST USE! That's ridiculcuous.

DD: That's because it's balanced. Do you really want a battle with Kadabra to be nearly over and then "Oh, recover. Back up to 52% health vs his opponents 32."

[Silencer]

Little question. Can we use XD moves? Cause according to veekun my newly captured tauros (thx egg central) can learn refresh in XD. Which can be really useful now a days :p

[RaZoR LeAf]

Yes, purifying moves as well as move tutor attacks leearnt in XD can all be used.

[Heald]

About the new definition of Double Team :

The user splits in multiple images, almost always surrounding its opponent. It generally causes confusion to its opponent and will stay that way until the user launches into another attack or the user or one of its images is hit by an attack, to which all of the clones will disappear.

By 'launches into another attack' does this mean another move in general or just an attack? So, for example, if I had a Pokemon Double Team and then use Defence Curl or something, would that count as an Attack, even though Defence Curl is actually a Defensive move and not attacking?

[Chris 2.1]

No it needs to be physically hit. Think back to the Indigo League in the anime. Once Bulbasaur struck Scyther wityh vine whip, its clones dissapeared.

I think the brutality of the attack deters the users concentration long enough for the clones to dissapear.

[Heald]

I don't think you got what I meant. If you did, sorry for misinterpreting your post. I meant if I gave a Scyther, for example, the following commands for the new definition of Double Team :

Double Team ~ Swords Dance ~ Slash

According to the new definition, when Scyther 'launches into another attack', all the clones will disappear. However, Swords Dance is not an attack, therefore if Scyther uses Swords Dance, will all the clones disappear or will they remain and then disappear when Scyther uses Slash, which is an actual attack?

[The_Missing_Link]

No it needs to be physically hit. Think back to the Indigo League in the anime. Once Bulbasaur struck Scyther wityh vine whip, its clones dissapeared.

I think the brutality of the attack deters the users concentration long enough for the clones to dissapear.

There have been episodes where attacks have passed through clones and they didn't disappear. They only disappeared after the user went on the offensive

[Ultimate Charizard]

Thats because as far as those examples in the anime goes the clones reprisent the user moving so quickly that it leaves after images. So an attack going through a clone and it remaining is because the attacker missed the User, but the user is still moving so quick to create the 'after image' that was attacked...if you know what i mean.

As far as 'non attack' moves are concerned i have seen a situation as mentioned above. A pokemon used double team, then used Swords dance (all 3 clones were seen to use S/D) then they all merged back into one for the attack.

[Dark Dragonite]

well, in essence, moving as quick as you do to create the after images(which is the way I like personally), should burn energy quick, plus, if it is surrounding a pokemon who uses a manuever like mega kick, say the foot is out there long enough, the pokemon using DT could feasibly trip...

[+conspiracy+]

well... to add to this conversation.. hehe

Double team isn't necesarilly the user moving fast... it could simply be just split images... Most of the anime though has the user moving fast, but if recall correctly, in one episode, someone's alakazam/kadabra just created more images of itself... I think it may have been in the first season when ash battles sabrina or something, but im not entirely sure, please correct me if im wrong.

As for another pokemon using a move such as mega kick to break up the double team, imo the poke who stuck its foot out would recieve some damage.. (like sticking your hand to block the ceiling fan or something)... and if the DT using pokemon has sharp apendages or is made of metal or heavy in some way, then this oculd also cause more damage..

just my thoughts :-)

[Dark Dragonite]

That is true, but the force it is using to run, would also hurt the user, as it collapses to the ground, plus, if it is heavier, it will burn energy real quick running fast...picture a snorlax doing 200 laps in 5 minutes...

[+conspiracy+]

well, that is true for heavier pokes, but for others like ninjask or scyther who are naturally fast... double teaming would almost be like second nature to them, and it should take up a lot less energy than say a snorlax

im not sure how most people ref it, but i feel that using moves a certain pokemon is 'meant' to do should do more damage, yet use up less energy than that same poke using another attack that just doesn't 'fit the description'

since im bad at explaining, heres an example...

starmie using surf should deal more damage yet use less energy as opposed to a starmie using thunderbolt which would deal less damage but expel more energy... but i guess in most cases the hit would most likely be super effective or something anyway

i dont even know what im getting at........ X_X'

[Ace64]

That's pretty widely accepted, conspiracy...Fire Pokemon are more skilled at using fire moves than a normal Pokemon would be..makes sense.

But if you applied that kind of logic to every move, then it'd be a lot of work, and mostly pointless work, as reffing is subjective anyway.

[Dark Dragonite]

subjective, and manipulative...
asb is almost part debate like, lol...
and yes, I would accept that, just as Raichu would be better using thunderbolt than surf, just to complete the analogy

[Chris 2.1]

As far as double team is concerned, I think we can simply let the current ref of said match to interpret it as they wish.

[Hyperness is a Good Thing]

I just wanted to ask, for the attack Amnesia, how long do its effects last? Let's say I perform Amnesia on the Pokemon to make it forget Confusion, how long will it be forgotten?

[Dark Dragonite]

I think that is up to the ref, some use the all-knowing online die

Anyways, I saw an episode of Pokemon Chronicles....The Legend of Thunder Part2: They had 2 moves in it I found interesting...

Steelix used Sandstorm, which was harsh, and only affected the foe, by spinning the spiked part of it's body, but it could do nothing else while it performed this, I found it more true, cause you can't keep conjuring up sandstorms like you can bring clouds for rain dance/prayer, it's more of a self made move.

Misdreavus used PERISH SONG!! constantly singing, draining itself, but not quite at the speed it drained Skarmory and steelix(foes)

[Hyperness is a Good Thing]

Ref and all knowing die? woekies! Thank you Dark Dragonite, can finally finish my reffing post.

[Dark Dragonite]

anytime I can help, I used to be a good ref...
Just remember, if amnesia is used again, the first move is remembered immediately.

I can't believe noone has anything to say about Sandstorm, and Perish song actually being used in anime!?

[The_Missing_Link]

I can't believe noone has anything to say about Sandstorm, and Perish song actually being used in anime!?

Actually, people have talked about the anime perish song for years and the anime sandstorm has been known since Johto. You just probably haven't noticed it before

[Dark Dragonite]

I knew sandstorm had been around, but had not seen anime of it, PSong, I thought, had never been used in anime, hence the questions that always seemed to follow it.

[Elec Man EXE]

Perish Song was only seen in that I believe.

I've seen Sandstorm used before a few times.... James' Cacnea uses it quite often. It seems to have different functions though.... sometimes it creates an actual storm, sometimes its just a small stream of sand.

[Chris 2.1]

In the Hoenn League, Water Pulse was used like a water-type earthquake, radiating out from the user (Persian) and depleting double team clones.

Do people prefer this description? After all otherwise its essentially a stronger water gun. Let me know what you guys think.

[Ace64]

I like that description a bit more. Water Pulse IMO seems a bit useless...I haven't seen too many refs consider the chance of confusion with the attack, and without the possible status effect, it's pretty much Water Gun. So the new description could be used as a stronger type of Swift? Interesting.

[The_Missing_Link]

The problem is, Water Pulse has been used differently. The first time it was shown, it was used in water and caused a wave to crash down on the opponent. On land, it was just a sphere of water, a water version of Ice Ball

I hate inconsistencies like that

[Chris 2.1]

Yea and Lairon's used it as a geyser in Rubello town. Hmm. I'll see what people think. It could be a bit of a drastic change because lots of Pokemon learn it.

[Dark Dragonite]

Could it end up like nature power?
Different arenas create different results?

Or, it could be a water gun like spray from the mouth, but with bright rings around it, giving the potential for confusion?

[Elec Man EXE]

I like the sphere with a chance of confusion personally.

A ball is hardly the same as a stream of water.

It could have a different effect (the wave thing) when used underwater though.

[Hatake Kakashi]

Quick question: Can the Pikachu line learn Surf?

In RBY he learned Surf through Stadium, and now you get a Surfing Pichu through Pokemon Box...are we allowing Pichu/Pikachu/Raichu to Surf?

[Chris 2.1]

Yep all can learn surf since Pichu now can, so logically the next evolutions can also have it. Its brilliant

[Dragonis]

I read at Serebii.net that you can get a Dratini that knows Extremspeed in Crystal, so could Dratini use it here in ASB?

[Dark Dragonite]

I checked my dex, and yes, Extremespeed is a Dratini move in Crystal

[Dark Dragonite]

I figured this was the most appropriate place for this question:

If a ghost pokemon phases out, can it still attack, or does it have to phase in first?

EDIT: I could swear I saw Gengar, Gastly, and Haunter attack while phased out in the anime

[Elec Man EXE]

For balance purposes I'd say you can't attack while phased. Otherwise you just disappear and continue to attack without risk.

But I didn't keep up with the anime after Johto (only recently started watching again) so I don't know for sure if its been done in the anime or not.

[Saffire Persian]

A question for the other Refs out here.

I recently Reffed a battle where a Meowth used Fake Out while the opposing Yanma used Detect. I Reffed the battle with the Detect going first and evading the ensuing Fake Out, but according to the person who ordered the Detect, Fake Out supposedly gets the first precedence over any move. :/ I didn't think it would, like Protect would be used before a Quick Attack could ever hit, for example.

Should Fake Out have gone first, or was I right with the Detect?

If you wanted to know the Pokémon's base speeds the Yanma would be at a 95 base, while the Meowth would be at 90, so the Yanma would be faster. I just want to check with a few people to make sure I was right reffing the battle the way I did.