ASB Attack List Beta: All Versions

[The Blue Avenger]

I would ref it as Detect going first, for 2 reasons.

1. The resource I use says specifically that Detect always goes first, while the description for Fake Out does not say that.
2. Detect is an effect Yanma used on itself, whereas Fake Out requires the foe to get to Yanma first. I tend to ref self-effects as going first before attacks, just because there's no range involved in a self-effect, whereas if a Pokemon is attacking another, it has to reach them first. If that made sense.

[Dark Dragonite]

Question, can Safeguard block Swagger effects?

[Ace64]

Well, since Safeguard blocks status effects, not sound, I would say no. In the game, Swagger causes Confusion, but I haven't seen anyone ref it that way here. I guess it would either interrupt the Safeguard or take effect when the user finishes.

[Dark Dragonite]

Safeguard has been in effect for a round or so, I just swaggered, it could be something I should have figured out before I chose to do the move, just checking though.

[Saffire Persian]

Hmm... If a Rain Dance is going on and one of the Pokémon uses Double Team, would the clones immediately get wiped out by the rain, or would they stay?

[Knight of Time]

If it was raining, the clones would all disappear.

You see, if anything strikes a Double Team clone, it vanishes instantly. Since Rain Dance is really rain that can fall in several spots at once, every clone will be wiped out, no matter what happens to the user afterwards.

[Saffire Persian]

You see, if anything strikes a Double Team clone, it vanishes instantly. Since Rain Dance is really rain that can fall in several spots at once, every clone will be wiped out, no matter what happens to the user afterwards.

That's what I thought -- but when I saw the person command a Double Team during it I went: o.0'... And decided to go and ask, just in case.

[RaZoR LeAf]

Swagger basically annoys the pokemon so much that it's anger causes it to make mistakes, and as such take on the confused status. As such it's the pokemon itself getting iled up that causes it to get confused, and not an outside cause. Safeguard would block something like Confuse Ray for instance, because it is a tangible form aimed at the pokemon. Although, I beleive Safeguard doesn't block confusion OR sleep in the games. Only PAR, PSN, BRN and FRZ

[Spike]

Are you sure? I think it blocks them. Anyway, so if I use attacks like Petal Dance with Safeguard on, does my pokémon still gets confused?

[Saffire Persian]

I think it blocks every status ailment, too - with the exception of perhaps attraction. Not sure though.

[Silencer]

But, the effects of petal dance are coming from the safeguarded pokémon.

I look at it this way.

you have 2 men, one inside a box, the other outside the box. The box is unbreakable.

outside guy tries to shoot inside guy. Bullet reflects on the box.
Inside guy laughs and takes out his gun. Shoots towards outside guy but bullet gets reflected of the walls and inside guy hits himself.

Inside man is the safeguarded pokémon, Outside guy is the other and the box is safeguard.

[The_Missing_Link]

I think it blocks every status ailment, too - with the exception of perhaps attraction. Not sure though.

It protects from attraction as well. I don't see why sleep would be left off the list


As for swagger, I don't think it comes under that list. The user attacks the opponent with mental lashes (insults) and I doubt a barrier could protect a Pokemon from that, except Protect of course

[Saffire Persian]

I've been asking a few questions lately. Anyway, this is for a battle I'm participating in.

Isn't dig (Like other usual two-turn moves such as Fly) considered in ASB a "one turn" move, as in it takes only one action to preform, not two?

[The_Missing_Link]

I've been asking a few questions lately. Anyway, this is for a battle I'm participating in.

Isn't dig (Like other usual two-turn moves such as Fly) considered in ASB a "one turn" move, as in it takes only one action to preform, not two?

It's interpreted differently among each ref. Since there isn't a definite description of Dig in the anime, we leave it open for interpretation. I ref Dig as a one turn attack although if a Pokemon not of the ground/rock type uses it, I have them attacking second since they're not as adept in tunneling as ground/rock Pokemon

The problem is, since each ref refs it differently, you can't really tell if they ref it the way you would unless you asked them in a PM or through AIM/MSN

[Spike]

I see. Well, Safeguard's description on the first page however says that it also prevents noise and visual attacks such as taunt.

[Ace64]

There's two definitions of Safeguard, actually...I prefer the second one.

[The Blue Avenger]

I see. Well, Safeguard's description on the first page however says that it also prevents noise and visual attacks such as taunt.

Safeguard's description on the first page makes it seem more like a version of Protect - it apparently "absorbs any attack". I don't know anyone who refs it like that, most refs opting to instead use a version more like the game. Also, if Safeguard blocked sound, you'd have a small problem in that a Pokemon couldn't hear your commands.

[Ultimate Charizard]

I personally will never Ref Safeguard as an attack Blocker. Thats what Protect is for.
I see it more as an 'Aura' that protects the body from Status effects.

As for what is a status effect i think needs confirming by the Head Refs so that everyone knows what theyre getting into, not just what the current ref thinks.
Confuse isnt permanent, but neither is sleep. Attract doesnt stop Attacks but neither does Burn or Poision
At the moment i go by the game. Confuse/Attract dont count etc but i think a general rule should be added.

[Elec Man EXE]

The question is passed, but I thought I'd chime in anyway, as relating to Rain Dance and Double Team.

I personally don't ref Rain Dance as destroying the clones. It might reveal the clones (since the rain would go through them but hit the real pokemon) to a careful opponent, but even if they are just illusions I can't see normal rain destroying them.

There has to be some amount of damage associated with a move in order to destroy the Double Team. So Sandstorm and Hail would both do it (assuming the pokemon isn't immune to said move), but not Rain Dance.

Unless someone manages to kick up an Acid Rain.

[Dark Dragonite]

I will be creating acid rain with certain pokes >: )
I would also see foresight as helping find the true pokemon in an illusion, but will it see through a sub?

[Saffire Persian]

I would also see foresight as helping find the true pokemon in an illusion, but will it see through a sub?

Seeing as Substitute is a solid object, I don't think foresight could "see" through it. Double Teams are merely illusions with no tangible form. Substitute is, created with the same health and energy that makes up the Pokémon that uses it.

[Dark Dragonite]

Foresight: A red beam of light is emitted from the user’s eyes, sweeping the arena. All pokémon in the area of effect, including the user itself, are stripped of their abilities of manipulating illusions and phasing, leaving them on equal footing with the user of Foresight. Illusions regardless of power will shatter instantly and cannot be restored for a long time, while ghosts will be locked into the real world, totally visible, vulnerable to virtually any attack. Excellent accuracy, ignores phasing.

I would say yes, deffinately kills double team clones...but not sub...

Substitute: The user fashions a body double out of materials from its Malletspace Account and animates it with its own life force. This body double will suffer the brunt of any attacks an opponent makes until it falls apart, since Substitute also allows the user to mentally implant a misperception in all opponents that the Substitute is the actual pokémon it was built by. The opposing trainer cannot successfully order their pokémon to hit the “real” pokémon because their pokémon has a mental block against realising that Substitute has been used. While the user of Substitute is not immune to harm, affected pokémon can only harm the user by sheer accident, since they cannot deliberately aim at it. However, nonintelligent sources of damage, such as arena damage and effects that cover the entire arena (no normal attack covers the whole arena, only a few sigs and gym leader TMs do) will hit both the user and the Substitute at full damage if the user and Sub wander into the affected area. Making a Substitute is even worse than normal, for instance, if the arena is being flooded with lava and everything is getting burned. The Substitute takes full damage from the lava and the creator takes full damage as well. When made, the Substitute can be charged with a varying amount of life energy from the creator. However, in the heat of battle the user will NOT be able to understand precise numerical requests, so realistic trainers should keep their requests phrased appropriately vaguely, such as “big Sub,” “regular Sub,” “as small a Sub as you can make,” or the like. The amount of energy actually put into the Sub is partially random, as is the amount of health the Substitute actually has. These values will be close to each other, but the actual health may be slightly higher or slower than the energy put in, depending on various random factors up to the ruling of the referee. Note that due to this random variation deliberately making Substitutes as weak as possible is bound to backfire eventually, as a Substitute that randomly gets less than 1% health will fall apart immediately and uselessly upon creation. Excellent accuracy.

I've never seen a pokemon with a sub hit by anything, even accidentally, even though it is in the description, I mean, if it's a snorlax, which would be hard to hide, as some refs ref it, plus the fact that the real pokemon attacks, but the sub stays in it's spot? I would think a large-range attack, such as surf would be able to hit a sub user.

[Ultimate Charizard]

Yeah things like Earthquake do hit the Sub and the User. This exact situation just happened in one of my battles.

[Chris 2.1]

"Swagger: The user physically and verbally taunts opponents, provoking them into a vicious rage. While berserked in this manner, an affected opponent may sometimes ignore its trainer’s orders and tear into the Swaggerer with a barrage of basic melee attacks (meaning Frustration). The victim is unusually difficult to calm, made much worse if the user continues to throw in a taunt occasionally. Moderate accuracy."

In my match against DD this was brought up. Since Generation 3 brought in taunt, a verbally based provocation, should Swagger be changed back to visual only? I think so, since in ASB when GSC were the most recent games, this incorporated a swagger and a taunt since no such move was around. Now we have a seperate one.

Thoughts?

[Ace64]

Yeah, I remember that match. I think so too, otherwise Taunt and Swagger will be exactly the same, minus the effects.

[The Blue Avenger]

I think Taunt should be verbal only, whereas Swagger is verbal and visual. However, Taunt has the more potent effect - the victim cannot use defensive moves at all, while the victim of Swagger just gets enraged and confused.

[Dragonis]

I had always thought the user would swagger around like it was drunk and that would piss off the the opponent (thus causing the confusion and raised attack). That's just how I'd always seen Swagger in my head.

[Blademaster]

Meh, I've always seen it like this:

Taunt: Insult the opponent and make rude gestures in order to make the opponent Pokemon want to just attack - being angry, it wouldn't want to do anything except beat up the opponent.

Swagger: Stumble around drunkenly, giving the opponent an impression that the Swaggerer isn't any real competition, thus boosting confidence and attack, but at the same time causing the opponent to become perplexed and lower his/her guard...

Whatever - that's how I'd imagine it to work here...

-Blade

[Chris 2.1]

Thats true.

But since the attack list was created before taunt was known about, they made swagger a combination of swagger from GSC and a taunt-like attack. I'm proposing we split it so Swagger is visual provocation only.

[Chris Watarimono]

I have a question - are moves from the R/B/Y/G/S/C generations allowed? I know for sure that many of the older generation moves are available in the Advance Generation, but there are a few minor exceptions, such as TM moves in the R/B/Y/G/S/C.

I'm not sure where what moves are allowed here in ASBL, or it might have gotten taken down during the rewriting of the rule towers.

-Chris R.

[The Blue Avenger]

I'm fairly certain that they are, or otherwise almost all of the times one of my Pokemon has used Teleport it's been illegal.

[Ultimate Charizard]

Well i dont know how the current ruling goes but it used to be 'Unless specified (Pokecenter moves etc) then any more used by a Pokemon in the Games (Sufing Pika) or in the Anime (Whirlwind Bulbasaur) are allowed.

[Dark Dragonite]

I'm fairly certain all moves from r/b/y/g/s/c/r/s/e along with pokemon stadium moves, colosseum, Pokemon XD, and Pokemon Box, just not pokemon Center(NYC or otherwise) or special event moves...

[Chris 2.1]

Whirlwind bulbasaur isnt allowed as far as I know. My explanation is that Bulbasaur basically used a razor leaf (in Kanto it was a tight spiral of leaves) but without the leaves, leaving a concentrated blast of air to sort of blow away the spore. But it isnt allowed in ASB.

[Ultimate Charizard]

I always thought it was allowed since its ANIME style battling.
Bulbasuar was Ordered to use Whirlwind in the anime.....like ive said before things have changed alot around here.

[Chris 2.1]

I think it was...whatever we might as well.

Whirlwind Bulbasaur is allowed.

It seems so pointless but so trivial at the same time.

[Saffire Persian]

Would a Sunny Day override the effects of a Sandstorm, or would they co-exist at the same time?

[Chris 2.1]

I think they could easily co-exist. Perhaps rain and sandstorm would be a different story.

[Blademaster]

Hee hee... Quagsire's Mud Storm is gonna be the next big attack here at ASB!

BTW, is it plausible for an Icy Wind attack to soothe a burn?

[Chris 2.1]

Blade: Yea I think it might soothe the pain but the ref would decide whether it 'cures' the Burn or not.