Shiny new Smiley Town *bling*

[mistysakura]

Thanks, mate! *is saving chapters of LTL to read on the plane*

[Lady Vulpix]

Oh! Happy belated birthday, Ada! I'm sorry I missed it, I was too busy today, first with the Chinese calligraphy demonstration (I was filmed and will appear on TV in Taiwan, which is a bit scary considering I got nervous and didn't do so well, and I introduced myself in Chinese but couldn't say as much as I was expected to, but well, at least no one over there knows me), and then with the roleplaying game (my friends an I finally managed to get together for an RP session after 4 months!) so I didn't even turn on my computer during the whole day. I hope you had a great time.

[Blademaster]

Happy birthday person I barely know!

[mistysakura]

Thanks Mikachu, Gabi and Blademaster! Really wasn't expecting it, since I'm hardly here these days... Wow, you do calligraphy? And you're in Taiwan now?

[Lady Vulpix]

No, I'm still in Argentina. But people in Taiwan will see me on TV from what I've been told. And yes, I do calligraphy. It's hard, but I enjoy it and it's a nice break from the usual stuff. And I learn a lot of other things just by listening to my teacher during the classes. He knows a lot about many things so it's always interesting to listen to him.

[Gavin Luper]

Belated also - but Happy B'day for the other day, Ada! Hope it was a good one - did you do anything special?

Also, stoked that you were saving LTL chapters for the plane, hee!

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

Hey, any takers on classy_cat18's challenge? I might be in.

[classy_cat18]

There's no signing up this time, folks! Just jump in and have fun! Besides, I forgot that we usually signed up for that stuff.

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

Nice! I feel Fanfic-happy already, I have loads of other ideas as well, so I'll see if I have time and energy. Don't like saying it, but maybe destruction is inspirating.

[Gavin Luper]

I missed it last week - spewin - but glad I popped in this week!

I actually reckon it's better when there is a short and sweet prompt - maybe once we get more activity we can increase the frequency or something?

How's everyone going in general? Personally, my health kick has become even more full-on this year: I go to the gym 3-4 times a week to work out, I've cut out drinking, smoking, all fast food, all carbs in the evenings, just eating small and healthy meals rich in protein, taking vitamins, and the only snacks I permit myself are fruits, nuts, cheeses or a couple of plain biscuits (cookies) with a coffee once a day. It feels ridiculously good to start getting your body healthy - I'd seriously recommend it to everyone!

How are you guys going? What's new in your lives? Anyone else also on a health kick?

[Gavin Luper]

Okay, I know as a mod I shouldn't encourage SPAM, and I'm not, but ... who reckons we can get this thread to 1000 posts by the end of the week?

[mr_pikachu]

I doubt that the end of the week is still a reasonable target. The end of this month? I'm game.

So, my academic work over the course of the last year has been... hectic. How about the rest of you? Who's still pursuing a degree? What are you doing right now, and how do you want to use your degree when you're done? Relatedly, how do you make time and gather the energy for creative writing amongst your classes, research, and other activities -- or are you able to do so?

(Gavin, writing that you're required to do for your degree doesn't count. Because I'm jealous. ^_^)

[Gavin Luper]

I doubt that the end of the week is still a reasonable target. The end of this month? I'm game.

So, my academic work over the course of the last year has been... hectic. How about the rest of you? Who's still pursuing a degree? What are you doing right now, and how do you want to use your degree when you're done? Relatedly, how do you make time and gather the energy for creative writing amongst your classes, research, and other activities -- or are you able to do so?

(Gavin, writing that you're required to do for your degree doesn't count. Because I'm jealous. ^_^)

Brian: Well, yes, the deafening silence after my last post did make that aim seem a little ridiculous. >.< End of July? We can totally do it!

Myself, I'm went back to studying in March after a year's full-time work. It's very relieving to be back at study. I completed a BA majoring in (Creative) Writing and French in 2009. I'm now doing an Honours course in (Creative) Writing. It's part-time study so I can continue to work and pay for rent and bills and food and my car and all that, so it means I'll finish my Honours by the end of 2012. The plan is to get into a three or four year PhD in Creative Writing in a Uni over east somewhere (this means Sydney or Melbourne, which are much bigger cities than Perth) and write my first "serious" novel there.

How do I want to use my degree when I'm done? Well, not to "get a job" as such. I'm not naive enough to think that a BA will land me a job. I knew when I chose this instead of a scientific career that I wasn't going into a profession that was going to pay me well - it's an artistic path I've chosen.

So what I hope is to do the PhD in creative writing: three or four paid years to focus solely on my first opus - it will be hard work but it sounds perfect! It will enable me to lecture at Uni as well so I can take a class once I'm there. Prior to doing the PhD, I'm hoping to do some private tutoring in English and French to get some much-needed cash, and maybe further my freelance journalism career which is just budding at this stage.

So I guess that's what I'm hoping to get out of my degree ... hoping that it will guide me toward success in my creative writing and in the meantime, help me to support myself financially through different little jobs on the side.

My ideal career is probably just writing books, living off the proceeds of my book sales, doing book tours and guest speaking, and probably still doing all those little side jobs that vaguely interest me. I know how exceptionally rare that life is for even a published author, but I see no sense in not aiming for it anyway ... I feel I can achieve it.

My creative writing? Well, it actually does suffer under the pressure of work and study combined. This year is a research year so I'm not even doing anything creative until next year, so my creative work is really stifled, despite the fact that I am working towards an Honours degree in Creative Writing. Go figure.

Whenever I do get a chance to write comfortably, I chug away at LtL. There is not long to go at all, and I'm about 80% certain that this year's NaNoWriMo challenge will end with me completing the whole damn thing. That both scares and excites me, but finishing it this year would tidy it all up within a decade, and that would be kind of cool.

Phew. Okay, good questions, Brian. That really got me thinking and reflecting ...

What about you, man? I know you've been crazy with your PhD - any writing or creative time to be had at all? Or are you planning on doing something once your studies are done (and when is that)?

Cheers!

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

Hello FanFic,

I declared months ago that I'm 'feeling FanFic–happy' but haven't really done a thing. At the moment, I have one or two fics on my mind, but don't know when I'll have time to realizing them. Also, I know I could ask for help in writing them in Writer's Lounge, but not that I'd decline your help offerings, I'd still want to save you from spoilers. I have so many ideas but inspiration strikes at the wrong time, I have so many responsidilities.

[Blademaster]

responsidilities

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

Oh, a typing error. Is 'responsidility' a word?

[mattbcl]

I don't think so, but I'm guessing that's the exact same face Blade makes in the mirror when he knows it's time to trim those pesky nose hairs.

I rather do wish I was back in school and worrying about when I'll have time to write fanfiction while juggling a full schedule. Sadly that was not to be my fate and I've been working full-time for the past 6 years. As it stands, my work schedule is so dynamic that although I might come home as early as noon some days, other days I might not be home until 7 pm... at which point, I really don't have any time to write. And whenever I miss out on time to write, I miss out on motivation to do it.

The only way I managed to keep doing it consistently last year was resolving to write at least one page every day, creative or otherwise - but never assigned work, so topics for morning meetings for my place of work didn't count. Even then, there were several days where it felt like slogging my way through cold peanut butter, trying to get my dander up to write. Nowadays I feel like I'm about in the same realm as Mikachu... lost in the mire of real life, struck by inspiration at all the wrong times, and ultimately doing very little. At least Mika gets Finland.

[Gavin Luper]

I had a nice little burst of creative energy and wrote a little chunk of LTL a couple of nights ago. I'd been stuck for a while because I'd left the story in the middle of a newspaper article rather than the narrative itself, so every time I went back to write, I was returning to this matter-of-fact news article instead of the story itself, which kind of blocked my creative juices. Have noted to myself to not make that mistake again. Lisa and co are now roaming around in the three dimensional world again and I feel much more motivated to return to writing it more often now.

[Blademaster]

I don't think so, but I'm guessing that's the exact same face Blade makes in the mirror when he knows it's time to trim those pesky nose hairs.

Close. More like when I have to shave. Norelco is fucking trash.

[Crystal Tears]

Oh, a typing error. Is 'responsidility' a word?

It should be.

Anyways, I think I'm stuck with mattbcl and Mikachu. There's this vicious loop of 'never-gonna-work-on-it-ever' thing going on at the moment. Family emergencies and issues, new job at work, etc... It just, wow, my time and inspiration is non-existent or at the wrong moments >_<;

Either way, honest question: it a good or bad idea to put an original work on TPM? I remember I think Pancake brought it up before? I just don't remember the general consensus.

[mattbcl]

Oh goody, a question with all sorts of answers waiting!

Of course I can't be certain what the general consensus was on the subject before. From what I've seen, it isn't necessarily discouraged, although I'm not entirely certain you'd be able to find an "appropriate" section of TPM to do it on. You've got The Writers Lounge, but that place (as far as I've understood it) is more of a ground for locating your inspiration, and less for demonstrating where you focused it. It can be a certain brand of discouraging, though, if you're looking for a particular audience and discover that you only have one or two people comprising that audience. It's hard enough to cultivate readership for fanfiction; original work is something else again. I think it'd be nearly as much work flogging your story and getting readership up as it would be to produce the story itself. And that can be a hard path to follow sometimes. I've got a good friend who I met through, well, actually, this very community many years ago, and although his fanfiction was immensely popular (far more so than my own), when he wrote original material, he could barely get anyone interested enough to bother clicking.

There's also, naturally, the matter of whether or not you want to put potentially publishable material on a website where someone might decide it's good enough to re-post elsewhere -- either with the best of intentions, or with a mind to steal. I have faith in most of the people on this fine community but I'm also a realist, which is why I post a line in each chapter I put here that demonstrates my (flimsy) copyright. For a long time I never really considered how important that was, until I once ran into a forum where a quarter of one of my stories had been posted -- that is to say, copied and pasted with virtually no editing -- by someone who had not first sought out my permission, nor had they given me proper credit. I was fortunate in that I was able to contact a moderator and demonstrate my original authorship and claim to the tale. That wasn't the only incident of my stuff being used, though -- I've seen at least two other instances of characters of mine employed in stories whose authors never asked me for their use, though I was credited properly for their conception. I guess if you write well enough, it's bound to happen... people will write fanfiction based on your own stuff.

I digress. Assuming that there's no misunderstanding that the material is yours and not to be redistributed without your permission, your biggest obstacle is going to be, once again, getting the audience. Best you can do is shamelessly whore for reading and reviewing. If you're willing to go to that kind of effort, then you've got my admiration and I'd read your story just on that principle -- anyone who's willing to expend that amount of energy on telling a story deserves to have it read. That's probably why I've got half a library in my game room...

[Lady Vulpix]

I do post original work on TPM, which means I think it's a good idea. However, if you intend to publish it through an editor, it may be required that the work is not posted elsewhere, or at least not the final version. So if you do intend to do that, I think you should check with your editor first.

In any case, I've seen some preliminary versions of books which were published later show up online, so it's probably safe to use TPM as a test bed for your work (let people see the drafts and comment on them) before you make the final retouches and publish it.

And if someone does try to steal it... well, posts have dates. You can show that you posted it first.

[mr_pikachu]

Gavin: Sadly, I haven't really had any time or energy for creative writing. Much of my work has revolved around programming (and a lot of trial-and-error testing in that regard) as well as frantic manuscript writing, neither of which falls anywhere close to the "creative" mindset I need to get rolling on a fic. It's sort of the same problem you've been having, I suppose, where you were stuck for awhile on the matter-of-fact newspaper article, only my matter-of-fact work was part of a different project altogether.

With that said, I have done some work on my fics. It's just that the writing itself has not transpired. I've continued to plot out the future of WotF, for instance, as well as WDAMO (yes, I'm actually planning to continue the latter piece, too). At some point, I also have a separate project I'd like to develop for the boards, but that may take a bit more time and preparation. I honestly need to get myself moving again in other capacities before starting something new.



Original work on TPM: I started typing this response saying that I haven't posted much original work here, but then I remembered the many E-zine articles we've published, a few poems here and there, and the whole fanfiction documentary of years past (for which, I might add, many of my fellow TPMers consented to interviews). So perhaps posting original fiction isn't as unusual as one might imagine.

With that said, I don't think I could have expected to publish any of works. That's pretty much my mentality about the whole affair. If I have a project that I think could be book-worthy, I stay very secretive about it. If it's too reliant on fandom, I feel much freer to share it. I have found, though, that the dichotomy has stymied me in the past... I'll start a project that I want to expand into a novel, but when I get no feedback (because I haven't permitted anyone to see the writing or plotline), my momentum wanes.

Of course, it's not as though I could simply post everything on the forum, either, if I wanted to publish it. Older members will recall when CCC/Last Exile was working on a novel and posting chapters on TPM as he wrote it. After he had posted just two or three chapters, he learned that he would have to remove all traces of his manuscript from the internet. So you can't post things that are going to be published, but not posting them saps my creative energy. That's a puzzle I'll have to solve at some point if I want to build my writing success, and I'm sure others feel the same way.

[Crystal Tears]

@mattbcl,

The popularity of an original work on this site is something that troubles me. Even if I were to put it up (It’s called ‘Mischief), I have no way of knowing if people would read it, and I’m not sure if the lack-of-responses issue has been somewhat resolved yet (as in, if people are actually responding to really anything besides the really popular fics, this is nothing against the more popular fics, I’ve one wrote before, but ones that don’t fit whatever fanfic deems popular seem overshadowed or lost). It’s really discouraging to work hard on something and then to get, literally nothing.

To be honest, I have asked and gotten people to read the prologue. They’re interested, and a few have asked me for the rest of it. They’ve told me if I put it on TPM, they would reply and give me their opinions and insight, which would be really nice. The main reason I want to put it on here is to actually get advice from people on what could be improved and such.

I’ve had a few things of mine stolen before, it wasn’t big things, and it was a fanfic material. I’m worried that if I did put it up, someone might take it. I don’t think anyone on TPM would, but people who browse this site, and it’s those unnamed stalkers I fear as thieves. Admittedly I’ve also have friends write fanfics off of my own ideas as well, of course, they asked and they told me whether or not they had the intention to put it on whatever site they fancied.

Do you want to read it? XD *shameless whoring*


@Lady_Vulpix,

That was my plan, but now mr_pikachu has kinda put me off the idea. I would love to put up what I have and get opinions, but if I’d have to delete it all and remove it, what’s the point? I could as easily just email it to people who have agreed to read it and get their opinions their way, and I wouldn’t have to run around the internet, deleting it if I’d like to get it published, which I would. I quite like the world and the characters I’ve developed.


@mr_pikachu,

I have the same problem with momentum. I have only let a couple of people view the prologue, wanting to keep the rest of it a secret. But now that it’s actually growing, I want feedback. Not having it seems to stifle whatever inspiration I have some days.

See I remember bits and pieces of the discussion, and I recall that point was made. It’s a bit unfair really, the internet is such a source of freedom and opinion, but you can’t really use it to get what you want. I can ask some of my IRL friends for their feedback, but I don’t really get anything truly substantial. I love hearing ‘I like it!’ don’t get me wrong, but it’s not always what I’m looking for.

[/end ramble] o:

[mattbcl]

Sure, I'd read it. I'm always interested in what my peers want to show off... I like showing off myself. I'd even make sure to do my best to give you a fair and constructive critical review.

[mr_pikachu]

@Lady_Vulpix,

That was my plan, but now mr_pikachu has kinda put me off the idea.

Argh! I didn't mean to dissuade you from posting your fic. >_<

Look, here's the thing. Editors don't like to see duplicates of their product available for free on the internet, but it's possible that they'd be fine with an author removing the online version prior to publication. That might be something to discuss with potential editors.

Since I'm interested in the subject as well, I did a bit of research (i.e., a couple of Google searches) and found a useful take on the subject. I found the following portion especially illuminating:

Is work considered previously published if I post it on a blog, Web site, large social-networking site, or online literary journal?
If you’ve posted your writing on any of the above sites, it is generally considered previously published.

Is my work considered previously published if I post it in a writing forum or Web board?
If the forum or Web board is private and intended for the purposes of encouraging feedback or community support, then most editors and literary agents will consider the work unpublished. But just in case, you may want to take it down once you’ve received feedback so it doesn’t appear online.

If the forum in question is public (that is, if nonmembers can see what you’ve written), then your work will likely be considered previously published.

What if I published my work on my blog or other Web site, but then I take it down before submitting it—is that considered previously published?
This can be tricky. Try not to publish your work online if you plan to submit it elsewhere (like print journals). If you did post online, no one can stop you from taking your work down and then submitting it, but be warned: Editors may not like this tactic.

Once your work is removed from the Internet, do a search of random lines from the work to make sure it is not appearing anywhere. (Warning: Google and other search engines will often archive old Web pages, so simply deleting something from the Web doesn’t mean it’s gone!) If an editor finds your “unpublished” work online, you might look irresponsible or, worse, devious.

[...]

If I publish an excerpt from my book online or in print, does that mean the work is considered previously published?
Generally speaking, it’s okay to publish excerpts online, as long as they are on the short side (relative to the work in question). Be sure you maintain the copyright if you’re going to publish a portion of your book prior to publishing the whole thing! Otherwise you could end up publishing your book, minus your previously published first chapter!

[...]

The flip side: Publishing your work online can be beneficial
The Internet can be a wonderful resource, especially for those who don’t have critique groups or workshops available in their area. Unfortunately, very talented writers who just happened to workshop their writing online are getting caught in the cross fire between editors, agents, and the rapidly evolving question of “What is previously published writing?”

There are journal editors and literary agents who don’t really care about work published on small Web sites. Did you put a story up on a message board for critique? Have you posted a chapter of your manuscript on your blog? As long as the work isn’t plagiarized from someone else, some literary agents and editors don’t mind if the writing has appeared online.

But until the industry fully adjusts to the presence of the Internet, many literary agents and editors are going to simply reject work they consider to be previously published. At this point, the best option for writers is to play it safe until the rules become clearer.

Another thing to note is that, with Borders going out of business, it's possible that we'll see a greater trend toward online publishing anyway. That movement might make editors more receptive to publishing manuscripts that have previously appeared, in whole or in part, on the internet.

[classy_cat18]

I'm kinda tied up in a few things at once, but I'll eventually get back to my fics. Maybe once the Dragon Games are over at AC/CC.

[Crystal Tears]

@mattbcl,

♥ :3 Such news makes me happy! A fair and constructive critical review would be much appreciated.


@mr_pikachu,

Argh! I didn't mean to dissuade you from posting your fic. >_<

Lol Lookit you, killin’ yer own forum. jkjk!

More on topic, I’ll think about it. Knowing there are a few that don’t damn the internet decision is comforting. Either way I would tell them I had put it on the internet, and if they wanted I would tell them when, where, why and etc. I honestly have no idea what questions or concerns an editor or agent would have, so your research has been really helpful, as well as your opinion.

(That goes for everyone :3)

[Gavin Luper]

I hate the thought of ever being unable to publish something really awesome because I was stupid enough to put a version of it on the net. So, I'm one of those who refrains from posting anything worthwhile online, just in case.

Plus, I've had my fics stolen and posted elsewhere before - it hurts and it makes you really mad. So I'd feel a million times worse if the material stolen had been planned for publication.

In other news, we are 11 posts away from hitting the big 1000 post mark for this thread!

[mr_pikachu]

The 2011 Silver Pencil Awards have officially begun! Check 'em out.

I don't recall having ever caught someone else plagiarizing my fics. Of course, perhaps that's not a fact of which I should be proud... maybe it just means that others didn't find my work worth stealing. Hard to say. Not that I'm asking people to plagiarize me, mind you, as I'm sure I'd feel just as terrible as Gavin did, but... well, you get what I'm saying.

[Becky]

Gavin, I'm sorry to hear that's happened to you. I've seen my artwork pop up on other sites...the best was when I received an email one day from someone noticing my art being shared on someone's blog...what made it so crazy was that the person was describing how they painted the illustration.

All ended well, with the person finally taking down the art, but the long version of the story is generic enough. That's just the most recent example I can come up with of plagiarism.

Out of curiosity, Gavin, is LTL a TPM exclusive-- or are there other places that you've authorized to host the story?

[Gavin Luper]

Brian: Trust me, you don't want your work plagiarized. Even if it might technically be intended as some kind of flattery ... it pisses you off way more than you feel flattered, I can assure you.

Becky: Ugh, that sucks. I empathise. When I had LTL plagiarised it was from someone on TPM - a reader, actually - and similarly, I one day received an email advising me that this person (I won't name them) had completely ripped off the work, changing only Lisa's first name and keeping everything else identical. It was a sickening feeling and I was extremely pissed off.

I've only ever posted LTL here, and the first few chapters at Serebii and Bulbagarden, but I kept forgetting to go back and update them. You've piqued my curiosity now - has it appeared somewhere else again??

[Becky]

Not that I've seen, the thought just occurred to me last night when I was reading this thread. If I see it anywhere I'd be sure to let you know, but TPM is the only forum I visit, so I can't say.

[mattbcl]

Agree with Gavin, it really bites to have work plagiarized - or failing that, at least "borrowed" from without permission. My problem with authors attempting the latter is that the tales in which my characters made cameos were... well, frankly, they were poorly written. Plot, grammar, spelling, you name it, it was pretty terrible. I'd give at least some leeway to those who write well and give a good reason for my characters to show up, but when it's all about name recognition, it annoys me no end.

Example: MainChar is on generic Pokemon journey. MainChar encounters unspeakable evil, which s/he was able to defeat on his/her own, until somehow the evil quadrupled in evilness, causing the need for backup for MainChar to match. MainChar calls in Gavin's Lisa, my Jason, and Carbonite4's Kamon (anyone remember that one?) through connections and friendships MainChar somehow developed with no explanation, and they come in, kick ass, and then leave just as quickly. FOR TEH WINZ!!!!!11!!11!1!

...Yeah. Irritating.

[mr_pikachu]

Egh, yeah. That makes sense. I can understand the irritation you guys must have felt from having your work plagiarized (or, as Matt said, having characters "borrowed" by other writers).

Actually, Matt, you bring up an interesting thought. I wonder if that's how the original creators of franchises like Pokemon feel about fanfiction itself? I mean, you're referring to original characters that you created and others appropriated for their own use, right? In some sense, that's similar to what we fanficcers do all the time -- taking an existing fandom and using it to our own ends.

Of course, there are certainly differences; for one thing, established fandoms exist at a level beyond a fic of that fandom, essentially as professionals being compared with amateurs. Maybe having amateurs write fics about your published work stings a little less than being an (unpaid) amateur and having a fellow fic writer steal your material. Or perhaps there's no real difference either way. I don't know. It's an interesting philosophical question to ponder, though... takes me back to some of my interviews for the Fanfiction Documentary several years back.

[mattbcl]

In fact I was quoted in an E-zine article related to that very same subject, which led off with a discussion on the disclaimers that so many authors post with regards to their work. Supposedly such disclaimers absolve us of the cold hard fact that we, by the very definition we have as fanficcers, are openly and publicly taking material from an established fictional universe and offering free entertainment based on that universe. This is in direct contrast to the original creators, who spent a lot of time and money getting to where they are to present said universe to us... and many of whom would much rather we spend our time being inspired by THEIR material and not our own. After all, just because we're not raking in the cash like they are doesn't necessarily mean we're doing nothing to harm their dividends... because not all dividends come from the paper in our wallets.

[Gavin Luper]

This is all very interesting. I think the reason that published authors like JK Rowling actually sanction fanfiction based on their work indicates that it is a very different thing once you are at that level. She already has the widespread readership, the royalties and the recognition. The work is owned by her and that is expressly clear in law.

So, then, if I were to write a Harry Potter fanfic and post it here on TPM, it's not quite stealing anything away from JK Rowling or her original work, in my opinion. For starters, a fanfic is extremely unlikely to be anywhere near the quality of the original work; in fact, the probability is that it will be of an amateur level, and will never even be finished. But even if it is relatively well-written and amasses a readership of, say, twenty or thirty, which is massive for an online fanfic, this still doesn't threaten the exposure or readership of the original books. Nor are any royalties claimed or any profit made.

Thus, JK Rowling can view it as a harmless homage to her books. Indeed, it probably benefits her because it continues the legacy of Harry Potter among its audience and potentially introduces new readers to the original work. It keeps her characters or world alive in the collective mind of popular culture and I think this is a strategic win in terms of marketing, kind of in the same way films being parodied (e.g. Star Wars) keeps them in the public consciousness and to an extent keeps them relevant and introduced to a new, younger audience.

The difference at an amateur level is that we have none of the professional perks that come with being published: no published manuscript, no royalties or profits, no critical accolades or recognition. All we have is our readership, and that is usually somewhere around the half-a-dozen mark if we are very lucky. So that's why someone plagiarising your amateur fanfic hurts more, I reckon: they have taken the only thing you really get out of posting your fanfic - readers and acclaim - and accredited it to themselves as the original author. That's what stings/pisses me off. I recall reading the comments on the plagiarised LTL back in 2005: while it was exciting that readers were loving it and praising it, they were praising a plagiarist who had so little talent that they actually stole off other amateurs such as myself.

So, getting back to the whole Pokemon thing, I could be entirely off-base but I suspect that as long as no profits are being made off Pokemon fanfics, the creators would be inclined to tacitly allow it to continue. It keeps a legacy of that particular phenomenon alive, and it maintains the brand. People who read fanfics are the kind of people, typically, who would go to things like conventions and buy merch, etc. So I think they would be inclined to see it as a positive as long as there was no attempt to make a profit.

Now, how would I feel if my characters were taken and used in someone's fanfiction of my own novel? As I've argued above, I think it would depend entirely on what was being used. If someone took Lisa the Legend's cast and threw them into some shitty, grammarless trainer fic, I wouldn't be rapt. In cases where I trust the author, such as when Andrew and I did the LTL/EBTV crossovers, I suppose that is a rare case when I would be okay with it, but otherwise, I think fanfictioning another amateur's online work is out of bounds unless they explicitly agree to it.

However, if I wrote an original, published novel and had some legitimate success with it, and then found a bunch of fanfics online based on my world and characters ... I would be absolutely stoked and flattered, and hope they were decently-written. ^_^ But yeah, it would be quite poetic for a writer who found his first real audience through fanfiction to then have his own original work one day made into legacy through fanfiction - it would mean my work had inspired and/or touched my readership quite profoundly.

[mr_pikachu]

That's a good point regarding the homage effect, Gavin. I hadn't considered that. I suppose there's also the difference, like you said, in the fans. If someone posted one of my fics elsewhere, it would be at least a little challenging for a reader to claim that it was stolen from elsewhere. (They'd have to do some searching digging, if nothing else -- it would take a conscious effort.) On the other hand, it would be a little ludicrous for me to pop into a fanfiction forum somewhere and claim that I created Harry Potter. I imagine that people would mostly just laugh... and if I tried to actually post my "new book," the banning would be instantaneous.

Now, I don't know what would happen if someone posted a lesser-known novel on a forum and claimed it ownership of the piece, since not everyone would immediately know it was stolen. I suppose that the publishing company in question might handle that one, though, since that would be a fairly serious legal issue. Hrm. Food for thought.

[Gavin Luper]

Bleh, I was gonna wait, so juvenile, to make the 1000th reply to this thread and close it, but hell, it's taking too long, so I'll settle for making the 1000th post instead.

I have this to say:

BRIAN, I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU SIGGED THAT, BUT I REALLY SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER, SHOULDN'T I?

[mr_pikachu]

Gavin, you know my quote is tame by comparison. For years you've been making it look like we're having sex.

Aaaaaaand with that beautiful-when-taken-out-of-context sentence, we'll bring this chat thread to a close! I started this one over six years ago... it's been a great run, ol' thread. Thanks for being of such quality service to us.