Gun Control: Hot or Not?

[Razola]

Hi, Andrew.

Oh right, guns. Remember kids: guns don't kill people. Bullets going really really fast kill people.

[mr_pikachu]

It's not the fall that kills you. It's the sudden stop at the end.

...Wait, that's not the point of this topic?



But seriously, this topic is for discussion about gun control regulations and what changes, if any, should be made.

Personally, I don't have a problem with most of the regulations nowadays. However, there do need to be tighter restrictions on felons owning guns weapons (how about a probation sort of thing where they're not allowed to attempt to purchase one or they get tossed in the can for life?) and an extension on the time delay for obtaining a permit (which I believe is three days or so).

Excuse me as I run while you prepare your reaction posts.

[Dark-San]

If you asked about gun regulation, I am a strong believer for a total gun ban. If you take out the gun from the society itself, the society itself will become safer by itself. The scale will tip over to the law enforcement side since now they are the only ones with the weapons. This mean they can take out assassins like the Virginia Tech case faster then the possibility of these situation will decrease.

That used to be the case in the past. Time has change and we are now living in an age where there is a even greater need to protect ourselves. Welcome to the terrrorism age, where it can strike you when you least expected. Taking out the guns from the street would mean, you are giving these ass rats chances, multiple of them, to strike. Amercia would have become more vunerable if the guns would not be in place.

But then the terrorists can get it as freely as we do. But the numbers will prevail by itself.

Hence if given a choice, which opinion will you choose? It is hard to conclude since both side has its pros and cons.

[DarkTemplarZero]

At the very least require a thorough psychiatric evaluation for people who want to buy guns. In the VT case it was well known that the Cho kid was a maniac who wrote plays featuring characters who tried to kill each other by stuffing half-eaten cereal bars down their throats, but because he had no criminal record he had no problem buying a gun. Often it's the case that after the person gets the criminal record to prohibit them from buying a gun it is too late and the damage is done, but at least you know that the person you're selling the gun to isn't a homicidal maniac just waiting to strike.

[Mewtwo-D2]

I believe gun control is when you hold with both hands.


You take the right to arms away from the citizens, you have a weak and fearful population. People who can't defend themselves have a specific term- prey. Prey for tyrannical governments, prey for criminals, prey for random psychotics who want to murder people. You take away the right of the law-abiding to defend themselves, you are violating their right to live. It's my right to protect my body, my family, my friends, and my property.

I enjoy shooting as a hobby. I shoot very well- I enjoy it mostly because it's fun stress release to take out any anger on a sheet of paper. I don't relish the idea of killing another human being- I only would under dire circumstances. I believe I am the typical gun owner. If there was a danger to my safety, I would take up arms. If there wasn't, it's a harmless hobby that leaves nothing but paper and old bottles injured.

Society does not become safer without guns, because guns do not cause violence. If they did, then there would be mass murders at gun shows. Such a thing has never happened. Society is dangerous, but it's less dangerous for the weak than anarchy. That's why we made society in the first place. Look at places where guns have been banned- less people are being shot, sure, but look at the rates of stabbing deaths, or armed robbery, or rape. Did you know that 0% of reported rapes had a gun involved in any way? Washington D.C. has some of the strictest gun laws in the U.S., yet it has one of the highest murder rates. And don't get me started on robbery.

The point is when you outlaw guns, only outlaws have guns. By banning them, you're pouring money into organized crime and arms smugglers. Also, have you noticed that back when the Saturday Night Special was $10 at your local hardware store for anyone, there were no school shootings?

[mr_pikachu]

See, I suck at gun handling. Tried to shoot a rifle once in some accuracy contest on a vacation in Mexico... three shots, and not one hit the target. (Seriously, I don't have a clue where the projectiles stopped, because I missed the board entirely. All three times.)

However, I recognize the importance of people being able to defend themselves. It's one of the reasons I've trained myself so much in martial arts; if someone ever attacks me, I'm confident in my ability to deal with it. (Now, if they stand 20 feet away and pull a trigger, it's not like I can dodge the bullet. But my point is that if I get mugged or something, I only need the guy to lose focus for a fraction of a second and he'll be on the pavement. My training is in close-range combat.) I can defend myself, and that's important.

That's why I'm opposed to a complete gun ban, because people need to have some method of self-defense. It's just not good for anyone to be at the mercy of someone else. Yes, it's true that criminals are just as likely to wield weaponry if gun ownership is at all legal, but they'll get their guns one way or another. This gives innocent people a chance to fight back, in my estimation. Without having to spend years learning fighting techniques.

[DarkTemplarZero]

Guns don't kill people. I kill people. Muahahahah!

Mewtwo, where did you ever get to be so ANGRY? Hahah chill out, the universe isn't out to get you or anything. Get yourself a vodka martini and stop shooting things in anger.

But yeah, I'll agree with you there, gun bans only work well in civilized nations. Here in the United States where we have all these crazy Christian fanatics, gangster rappers, the overly paranoid Mewtwo-D2's, etc. etc. you'd just get prohibition all over again. But yeah, a psychiatric evaluation would be a good idea, at least prevent people like Cho from getting a gun.

[Blademaster]

Mewtwo, where did you ever get to be so ANGRY? Hahah chill out, the universe isn't out to get you or anything. Get yourself a vodka martini and stop shooting things in anger.

Here in the United States where we have all these crazy Christian fanatics, gangster rappers, the overly paranoid Mewtwo-D2's, etc. etc. you'd just get prohibition all over again.

OK, I'm stepping in.

Look, Zero, I've seen you and Mewtwo-D2 butt heads before; I don't know what vendetta you have against her, and while I usually agree with your viewpoints to an extent, I don't this time. Mewtwo-D2 is entitled to her opinion, just as you're entitled to yours, so how about you get a vodka martini yourself and quit picking on her.

[Mewtwo-D2]

Guns don't kill people. I kill people. Muahahahah!

Mewtwo, where did you ever get to be so ANGRY? Hahah chill out, the universe isn't out to get you or anything. Get yourself a vodka martini and stop shooting things in anger.

But yeah, I'll agree with you there, gun bans only work well in civilized nations. Here in the United States where we have all these crazy Christian fanatics, gangster rappers, the overly paranoid Mewtwo-D2's, etc. etc. you'd just get prohibition all over again. But yeah, a psychiatric evaluation would be a good idea, at least prevent people like Cho from getting a gun.

Look, kid. I know too many girls who have been raped, sexually assaulted, or otherwise sexually abused. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I've been on the receiving end of threats of sexual violence, and it made me determined to never be a victim again in any sense. You say the universe isn't out to get me? 1 out of every 4 women is raped or molested in her lifetime- that is never going to happen to me and mine again if I can prevent it. How is accepting the reality that life isn't always sunshine and rainbows paranoia?
You refuse stalwartly to carry anything to it's logical conclusion- this is life, shit happens. I accept that bad things can happen, and I prepare for them. Would you be calling me paranoid if I said I had $200 cash in my room in case of emergency? Would you call me paranoid if I said I keep a well-maintained stock of canned goods, fresh batteries, flashlights, and a radio in case of an emergency? How about that I have an emergency kit in my car, complete with basic tools, flares, and a thermal blanket? Unless you're a flaming lunatic, then no, you wouldn't. I'm not paranoid, I'm realistic. Realistically, in Human Earth, things go wrong sometimes. But if all you can think of is mindless feel-good platitudes, I'm going to have to tell you to go back to Candyland, or wherever it is that you live, and keep pretending the sky is made out of marshmallows.

As for where anger and stress come from, I build up a lot realizing there are people as doltish as you in the world. Charmed.

[Razola]

As for where anger and stress come from, I build up a lot realizing there are people as doltish as you in the world. Charmed.

And this is why gun control would be a good thing. Because America is full of idiots and the biggest threat to an idiot with a gun is him or her self.

I'm playing devil's advocate here, as I generally am against gun control. I'm from a military family and we were taught to fear guns until we were old enough to learn how to handle them. Guns are a tool and like a lot of tools they need to be handled properly. We didn't need to hide guns in the house: by age 7 I knew that if I saw a gun I didn't fucking touch it. Sadly, not every kid has parents that bother teaching these things. I will admit my dad wasn't terrible at hiding guns: he had a box of handguns I didn't even know about until he took them out for cleaning when I was 14 or so.

The happy medium is mandatory training and education for even the simplest of firearms. For fuck's sake, we don't just let kids jump in a car at 16 and we shouldn't hand people weapons once they hit a proper age and satisfy a waiting period.

Also, there's not a damn thing paranoid about carrying personal protection. A person well-trained in the use of guns will know the difference between shooting to kill and shooting to simply disable. Rape is a violent crime, so might as well respond in kind. As heinous as rape is, we don't need Sally Goodweather becoming a Judge Dredd and executing every person that gives her a dirty look. This is why people should get some rudimentary training.

[Dark-San]

Not to talk about rights here but it would not make any economic sense here if we are to implement gun control. Firstly there would this long and tedious process of developing a foolproof system that seek to restrict the number of people into getting the weapon. Who pays all those research and implementation of these processes? The government.

Secondly by if you restrict the number of guns roaming around the street, the gun business will see a drop in business. If you restrict the number of gun supply, what would the retailer do the surplus? Throw them off? By looking at it in a serious angle, you will also need to compensate these people too for losing part of their bread and butter. And who compensates them? The government.

The happy medium is mandatory training and education for even the simplest of firearms. For fuck's sake, we don't just let kids jump in a car at 16 and we shouldn't hand people weapons once they hit a proper age and satisfy a waiting period.

Raz may have a point there. Perhaps through basic education, you may want to develop a culture for people to understand on these firearms but then it is a long term solution.

[DarkTemplarZero]

Life is always sunshine and rainbows! And yes, I would call you paranoid for doing such things, what next, you'll wear a hard hat all day for fear of being hit by space debris? Fine, so I don't live in a fourth world country like you do apparently, but the way to becoming a better person isn't through anger and paranoia but through love, understanding, and having a heart.

And meh I hate companies that make guns with a fiery passion. A woman from BAE came to our school to speak a few months ago to talk about "careers in math and science", at which point I had to ask her whether or not it was moral to use your intellect to devise more efficient ways of killing people or to profit from the cluster bombs that are still killing small children in southern Lebanon. But to go along with what you said, education? That's a laugh. Look at American culture! The average IQ in America is estimated at around 100, which is somebody who's barely capable of a 4 year college degree. The average American believes they learned all they needed to learn about guns from "Natural Born Killaz" by Ice Cube and Dr. Dre. Do you think they would give a crap about some poor yuppie trying to teach them that guns are bad?

[Razola]

Stereotypes against Americans are acceptable. Double standards are so fucking ACE.

Now if you excuse me, I'm going to assume all Koreans are psychotic killers. DarkTemplar showed me the way.

[Roy Karrde]

That's a laugh. Look at American culture! The average IQ in America is estimated at around 100, which is somebody who's barely capable of a 4 year college degree. The average American believes they learned all they needed to learn about guns from "Natural Born Killaz" by Ice Cube and Dr. Dre. Do you think they would give a crap about some poor yuppie trying to teach them that guns are bad?

You know the last time you pulled this IQ crap I owned you pretty badly, there has never been a legitimate IQ test that covered even a group of states not to metion the whole country. The creation of this so called Estimate stems from the IQ Hoax passed around in 00 and 04 in which people believed that Blue States had a higher IQ than Red States. In the end the entire thing was believed to be a Hoax becuase there is no way to estimate a IQ of that size.

And the rest of your generalization is so pathetic that it ranks up there with "You never go to the French to help in a war becuase all the French know how to do is Surrender and nothing else"

[Andrew]

I don't think we need guns, in the hands of the general public - AT ALL.

Law Enforement - I think they could have a stock of them at the police station, but they don't need them on the beat. I think Pepper-Spray and Electric Shock Guns could be much better options and hopefully non-lethal options to subdue criminals. This option couldn't occur until you could be sure the general public no longer has firearms, or a greatly diminished stock of them. There is no reason to need a firearm unless it's the reason "To protect myself". In which then everyone uses the same damn excuse. And it will go on in a cycle, or "Keeping up with the Jones'" with guns.

Military - Have as many damn guns as you want. But keep them in the field, or for training exercises. But, then, this leaves a goverment open to a Coup if it is instable...

[Mewtwo-D2]

Life is always sunshine and rainbows! And yes, I would call you paranoid for doing such things, what next, you'll wear a hard hat all day for fear of being hit by space debris? Fine, so I don't live in a fourth world country like you do apparently, but the way to becoming a better person isn't through anger and paranoia but through love, understanding, and having a heart.

Good luck with love helping you change a tire when your car gets a flat, or understanding feeding you and giving you light when a hurricane knocks out power to your area. You know what? I live in one of the wealthiest areas in the nation. My car still gets flat tires from time to time. I've still blown a hose on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere and needed my little emergency kit to fix it. I've still had trees fall across power lines and been without power for two days. Bad things happen. People get robbed, murdered, and raped every day, and that's just outside threats.
I live in a home powered by electricity- that means there's a chance the power will go out, and I'll need a flashlight, a radio, and a phone I can count on to find out what's happened, where, and when it's getting fixed.
I keep a small amount of spare cash for unexpected emergencies. Let's say I get really sick or break my leg, and I have to miss work for a month. I've got a little windfall so my bills will get paid just in case the worst happens.
I keep band-aids, antacids, and aspirin in my purse. I usually don't need them, but sometimes I'll cut myself on a loose nail, or my friend will get a bad stomachache at a restaraunt, or a classmate will develop a bad headache. Isn't it better that I have those things close at hand, rather than having to go out and get them?

Ever heard the old axiom that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure? Preparing against disaster doesn't make you paranoid and it doesn't make you a pessimist. And that's why I will never be against private citizens having the right to arm themselves- it's just another way of hedging your bets against the possibility of the worst happening. I don't go around all day thinking 'I better get another gun in case the zombies attack!', but the more responsibilities I gain, the more I prepare for contingencies. With every preventative, it's better to have it and not need it then need it and not have it. You carry a spare tire in your trunk? You're just as paranoid as I am.

You'll learn once you grow up, kid.

[Razola]

In which then everyone uses the same damn excuse. And it will go on in a cycle, or "Keeping up with the Jones'" with guns.

Are you saying that there will be escalation among private citizens? That's just silly.

[TKnHappyNess]

They could control guns, however it goes against the 2nd ammendment. Unless they fix that so only it's legal for the authorities to carry guns.

[Razola]

They could control guns

They can't stop kids from downloading music. It is nothing short of delusional to assume illegal arms sales could be stopped.

[TKnHappyNess]

They can't stop kids from downloading music. It is nothing short of delusional to assume illegal arms sales could be stopped.

Yeah, but you're not killing people by downloading music. Besides, maybe the RIAA will get the hint that people aren't going to pay $20 for a CD with one or two good songs.

[Mewtwo-D2]

Yeah, but you're not killing people by downloading music. Besides, maybe the RIAA will get the hint that people aren't going to pay $20 for a CD with one or two good songs.

Yeah, and no money goes to organized crime when people download music illegally. Plenty of things are illegal- does it stop you from doing all of them? Crack is illegal and dangerous, yet plenty of people find lots of ways to get it.

Look at the War on Drugs. It's a complete failure. Millions are going to lock up potheads and stop people from growing weed in their closets, while hard drug smugglers and organized crime just bribe a few officials and get their wares through. You think it would be any different with guns? All that would happen if we banned guns from private citizens would be the crime rate would skyrocket and organized crime would get ridiculous kinds of rich.


Also, according to the Supreme Court, the job of the police is to uphold the law, not to protect YOU.

[mr_pikachu]

Look at the War on Drugs. It's a complete failure. Millions are going to lock up potheads and stop people from growing weed in their closets, while hard drug smugglers and organized crime just bribe a few officials and get their wares through. You think it would be any different with guns? All that would happen if we banned guns from private citizens would be the crime rate would skyrocket and organized crime would get ridiculous kinds of rich.

Pretty much agree with this. As a historical example, just look at the Prohibition Act. Do you think that when the law was passed banning alcohol consumption, the entire nation suddenly became sober?

Like Mewtwo-D2 said, people will find ways to get around such rules, thus making them nothing more than minor inconveniences.

[DarkTemplarZero]

Approximately 10 people each year are killed by accidents involving vending machines, are you going to waste your life strapping vending machines to the wall before you go near them to prevent them from falling on you? And of course love and sunshine prevent you from getting flat tires, just look at me, never had one, and life is all love and sunshine for me

Oh the red daisies
Flowers retain all happiness
Sunshine, yay!
Sunshine!

Anyway, since my physics class was kinda boring today because the teacher was out and the idiot sub broke up a conversation with asking everybody about the VT massacre, I brought up the idea of giving teachers guns. Of course everybody scoffed. But on the other hand, I'm from a magnet school in the richest county in the country, not exactly Newark or Compton or LA or Virginia or another one of those Darfurs of the western hemisphere, so I don't know what it's like to live where every sweet-looking grandmother on the street is carrying an AK-47 in their shopping cart just waiting to rob somebody.

You seem to not understand something, guns are not like drugs. When somebody does drugs, I assume that they wouldn't in a public area, but rather somewhere private where they wouldn't get caught. Guns, on the other hand, for your average criminal, are only useful in places where you can actually use them against people. Since a ban on guns implies both the illegality of selling or carrying a gun, then carrying one around is risky, as being caught with one in your possession will automatically get you into prison and lose you the money you paid for it. Ditto for downloading music, it's done in private and the vast majority of people don't think of it as a problem, whereas guns must be used in public and I think all of us can agree that a maniac with a gun is a bad thing.

[Razola]

You seem to not understand something, guns are not like drugs. When somebody does drugs, I assume that they wouldn't in a public area, but rather somewhere private where they wouldn't get caught. Guns, on the other hand, for your average criminal, are only useful in places where you can actually use them against people. Since a ban on guns implies both the illegality of selling or carrying a gun, then carrying one around is risky, as being caught with one in your possession will automatically get you into prison and lose you the money you paid for it. Ditto for downloading music, it's done in private and the vast majority of people don't think of it as a problem, whereas guns must be used in public and I think all of us can agree that a maniac with a gun is a bad thing.

Because nobody has ever driven under the influence!

Guns are just as easy to hide as drugs unless you are retarded and carry more than just handguns. Drug sniffing dogs are akin to metal detectors, so don't even bother making that point.

[PNT510]

Approximately 10 people each year are killed by accidents involving vending machines, are you going to waste your life strapping vending machines to the wall before you go near them to prevent them from falling on you? And of course love and sunshine prevent you from getting flat tires, just look at me, never had one, and life is all love and sunshine for me

Oh the red daisies
Flowers retain all happiness
Sunshine, yay!
Sunshine!

Anyway, since my physics class was kinda boring today because the teacher was out and the idiot sub broke up a conversation with asking everybody about the VT massacre, I brought up the idea of giving teachers guns. Of course everybody scoffed. But on the other hand, I'm from a magnet school in the richest county in the country, not exactly Newark or Compton or LA or Virginia or another one of those Darfurs of the western hemisphere, so I don't know what it's like to live where every sweet-looking grandmother on the street is carrying an AK-47 in their shopping cart just waiting to rob somebody.

You seem to not understand something, guns are not like drugs. When somebody does drugs, I assume that they wouldn't in a public area, but rather somewhere private where they wouldn't get caught. Guns, on the other hand, for your average criminal, are only useful in places where you can actually use them against people. Since a ban on guns implies both the illegality of selling or carrying a gun, then carrying one around is risky, as being caught with one in your possession will automatically get you into prison and lose you the money you paid for it. Ditto for downloading music, it's done in private and the vast majority of people don't think of it as a problem, whereas guns must be used in public and I think all of us can agree that a maniac with a gun is a bad thing.

What a joke. If guns aren't allowed by regular people then people just won't get them. It won't stop criminals from having them at all. If they already plan on steal from someone or killing someone, why would they have a problem with breaking another law and carrying a gun.

[Leon-IH]

What a joke. If guns aren't allowed by regular people then people just won't get them. It won't stop criminals from having them at all. If they already plan on steal from someone or killing someone, why would they have a problem with breaking another law and carrying a gun.

It will stop at least some criminals, sure as hell works here in Australia.

This is just going to go back and fourth in absolutes though, so you all might as well just give the fuck up, nobody is going to be convinced here.

[DarkTemplarZero]

Yeah, I'll agree with Leon. As they say, arguing on the Internet is like the special olympics, even if you win, you're still retarded.

<3 Mewtwo-D2

[Mewtwo-D2]

I did not check my sources carefully. Pardon me.

[Hyperness is a Good Thing]

Hope this article is enlightening.

I don't mean to antagonise but..

http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusi...raliaguns.html

...because I dislike misinformation. *runs away*

[Andrew]

Mewtwo D_2 what was your source for that article, and what year was it from?

Also, how many of those crimes were drug related?

[DarkTemplarZero]

I don't mean to antagonise but..

http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusi...raliaguns.html

...because I dislike misinformation. *runs away*

To quote the Juggernaut, "pimpsmack yo' ass, bitch!" *snicker*

And no, that in no way implies that M2 is a bitch, I was only trying to maintain the effect of the quote Also, along the lines of what Andrew asked, how many of those where committed by Colonel Mustard in the Observatory with a wrench?

[Icebloom]

To argue for gun control laws is to say it is acceptable for politicians to use police, military and other "men with guns" to decide who can and can't have guns. Absolute hypocracy, I say. It's the reason why gun rights activists are justified in their anger -- When there are people out there who are willing to send men with guns to limit and take away the guns of decent, nonviolent human beings (and successful in some of their attempts, mind you), how are we supposed to act?

Besides, as far as self-defense goes, what's the moral difference between you using a gun to shoot an attacker, and calling the police to do the same thing? If you don't have the right to defend yourself with a gun, how can you logically have the right to call on someone else with a gun?

[Leon-IH]

Someone just got railed here, and it wasn't me.

[DarkTemplarZero]

Errr Icebloom you may not have noticed this but the whole system of people with something determining which people can have that something is how this country works. C'est la capitalism. Vive la FRANCE!

[Icebloom]

Errr Icebloom you may not have noticed this but the whole system of people with something determining which people can have that something is how this country works. C'est la capitalism. Vive la FRANCE!

Point number one: What I described was not capitalism at all. Capitalism is a system of private property rights. To initiate force to decide who can and who can't have guns when you are not part of the voluntary transaction that takes place is to violate private property rights, and thus, is not capitalism.

Point number two: You haven't addressed the hypocracy on the side of the gun control advocates.

Point number three: You haven't addressed the moral issue, in that there is no moral diffrence between shooting an attacker with a gun and getting someone else to do it for you (i.e. police).

Point number four: To dismiss my argument with a simple "this is how this country works" is nothing but bending over backwards for the current state of affairs. If I see something wrong, I'm going to state it and label it as such.

[DarkTemplarZero]

*yawn* I'll humor you.

First of all, I'm not arguing with you that allowing police to carry guns in order to prevent others from carrying guns is like having a huge stockpile of Nukes in order to force others to disarm their stockpiles; stupid and worthless. Police should not carry guns in civilian areas, neither should anyone else. Next, yeah, there is no moral difference, but the practical results are different, a police officer is trained to shoot as a last resort and to aim for non-fatal shots, whereas a scared civilian with a gun will probably shoot someone at the first sign of trouble right in the chest. You make a good point with the morality aspect, but as they say, in theory, practice is no different from theory.

[Mewtwo-D2]

I posted an article without checking it out thoroughly. That was unprofessional of me and below my usual standards. I'll delete it.


However- DTZ, you're ignoring completely the fact that criminals are criminals because they break the law. Why on earth would someone who is unwilling to follow laws about murder, rape, robbery, assault, etc. follow gun laws? What's more- most criminals already don't follow gun laws, so why would more make a difference?

Also- have you ever shot a gun? When you're in a crisis situation, you don't shoot for non-fatal areas. You shoot for the biggest target- namely, the torso. If you try to aim for the knee or the hand on someone threatening you physical harm, you're probably going to miss. You usually only get one chance, so to carry a gun, you better be willing to kill or be killed.

[Blademaster]

a police officer is trained to shoot as a last resort and to aim for non-fatal shots

If I didn't know you were serious, I'd sig that quote for purposes of comedy.

[Leon-IH]

Why on earth would someone who is unwilling to follow laws about murder, rape, robbery, assault, etc. follow gun laws?

Who said they'd follow them, it's just much harder for them to actually use a gun for their crimes.

Heres why gun control works, you can try to disagree with it, but you might not get far.


The difficulties relating to the purchase of guns if properly policed, if you've ever tried to buy a banned substance you'd know you can't just say "I'm going to buy some heroin" and then go out and do it in most cases.

The inability to perform a crime out of anger on the spot (takes all of 3 seconds to shoot someone, while it takes a LOT longer to choke someone to death) because you don't have a loaded gun in your home or workplace.

The people you'd have to deal with in order to get a gun would put some people off too.

[Mewtwo-D2]

The people you'd have to deal with in order to get a gun would put some people off too.

And the people who really wanted to commit murder and mayhem? The people who aren't going to be put off are the people I would especially not want having a gun. Also- the people selling guns would be in organized crime. Great idea! Let's strengthen those scumbags even more. We didn't have enough drug smuggling and sex slavery, so let's make them even richer with arms smuggling! Also, let's make it impossible for private citizens or police to stand up to organized crime. If police can't carry guns into civilian areas, where do you think organized crime is going to set up?

In America, the Supreme Court has ruled that the job of the police is to uphold the law, not to protect private citizens. My security should not rest on anyone else- I am responsible for my own body and my own property. The thing with gun control that you can't argue is that it makes people weak and dependent. With a gun, I have the ability to fight back against the criminals who wish to harm me, my loved ones, and take my property, regardless of how they are armed. Without a gun, I am dependent on my ability to get to a phone, police response time, and my ability to appease the criminal long enough that there is a minor chance they'll get caught. Also why is it that you hardcore pro-gun control make no distinctions between the average law-abiding citizen and trigger happy ghetto rats? (Note: ghetto rats come in all colors and economic levels- their distinguishing marks are a belief that crime is cool and the urge to destroy everything good or beautiful)

Read interviews with criminals- they are less likely to commit a crime on someone they suspect is carrying a gun. If 0% of reported rapes involved a firearm, aren't I much safer from the possibility of rape by carrying a firearm?