Pokemon Diamond and Pearl (debate).

[Sceptile_Master]

So okay we all pretty much know that these are the two new pokemon versions that are going to be released on the up and coming Nintendo DS portable gaming system. But before I start please note that this is a SERIOUS discussion. Okay then some points that are to be discussed are:

> The new generation of pokemon. What are your views on nontendo adding new pokemon to the world. We all know munchlax is being put in, but are nintendo going over the top with the amount of pokemon they are adding. Should they round it off for the up and coming diamond and pearl games to something like a nice 400.

>should the two up and coming games be set in a new pokemon region or one of the ones already made (kanto, johto, hoenn, orre). Would a DS version of the orre region (probably with wild pokemon) be intresting* (*note that this ties in with the next section). If you think they should create a new world what should it be like.

>Should the pokemon extend to 3D graphics on a hand held system or should they be touched up 2D games like at the moment. As mentioned above it may be interesting to see how the developers would do orre in 2D.

>How should the new features of the DS be used to enhance the gaming experience of these two new versions. Also how should the link between the GBA/media port be used to interact with these new games (eg. pokemon trading or mabye getting secret items like the mystery ticket on fire red and leaf green).

>DV's or IV's and EV's. Should pokemon go back to the old Dv system. For alot of people it just felt right to use DV's and stuff, and made raising the pokemon more enjoyable for them. Ev training annoys people and some think it has ruined the true meaning Nintendo originally said about raising pokemon with love and they will become stronger. For some it just isn't true pokemon with Iv's and EV's.

>Day, night and time in general. For all people who have fire red or leaf green you may have noticed that there is no in game clock. For some having day and night added was an unbelievable and hugely fun aspect of the game. Even though ruby and sapphire still had time alot of the greatness that made the time in gold, silver and crystal. Like pokemon appearing at different times and Buenas password only being aired between 6pm and midnight. Also the loss of being able to set the day was a big blow for some. Events happening on different days was very cool in alot of peoples opions.

>Added ubers evry generation now means there are two many. Some people think there are to many ubers. Should Nintendo stop adding them (Ties in with the adding a 4th generation of pokemon section of discussion). Should nintendo only allow certain ubers on certain versions (ties in with the next section).

>Pokedex or exclusive pokemon. Ruby and sapphire has introduced another type of pokedex with certain pokemon. Should in an effort to limit ubers make a pokedex for each version. with some pokemon including ubers not being able to be traded to the other versions because they are not in the pokedex. This could allow each version to be more exclusive, or do you prefer it the way it is (having access to all pokemon in all versions).

>Promotional events. Are nintendo going over the top with promotional events AND trading with newer versions. Are to many pokemon now hidden by tickets etc. Are nintendo making it to hard to get all of these special pokemon by having spread them over to many pokemon games. Even after red, blue and yellow (in gold, silver and crystal) it all the pokemon were already available in previous games and there weren't to many promotional events. The type of promo events and stuff were originally meant so that you would buy all the games to get all the pokemon (a marketing tactic), although this has forced people to not get the games therefore sales have stayed the same but the games are less fun. people who liked the series bought the games anyway.

>Gold, Silver and crystal were revolutionary. Should the series go back to all the features and likness of gold, silver and crystal version. Alot of people don't have the newer games as they think they are inferior. Should the new games go back to how gold, silver and crystal was. For alot of people the feel of these games was superb. How everything reflected the mood perfectly. Like the first time you stepped into Ilex forest. Now the forests don't have much feel about them. There are so many reasons it should make a decent discussion topic.

>Are you tired of 8 badges and then the elite four. Should the story be changed. Also should the game have more of a longer and more absorbing plot, to make it into an epic tale. One that could possibly open a story line discussion forum. If so what do you think the story should be like/include. Also should there be more effort put into the after elite four or main story type thing (if you don't want the elite four) world. Alot of people find the islands very lacking and ruby and sapphire didn't have much.

When writing these I have tried not to add to much opinion, that is for discussing. Who knows if this topic does really well mabye we could send it to Nintendo. They make changes if it is profitable. And if alot of people want certain things it will surely be read and used. Game developers do normally change the game if it profitable. But that is besides the point, this is a discussion/debate. Lets go and discuss what diamond and pearl SHOULD be like.

[Aarkan]

They should stick with the current mechanics (EV/IV system) but reintroduce IV and shiny breeding and stuff like that. There should be at LEAST 500 pokemon total including the 386 we currently have. They're linking Emerald to the new ones so that's the gateway between generations. Using that you should also be able to access stuff like Contests and stuff... They should definatly bring back day/night and the days of the week having something similar to the pokegear, that was by far the best aspect to G/S/C. They should also release a brand new set of 50 TM's but allow the Advance TM's to be traded over and labeled as something like "TM 06A" for Toxic. More move tutors and egg moves and stuff are a given as well as brand new moves. These games can pretty much just take the Advance generation and build more on top of it, leaving everything on the bottom still there for everyone who likes it.
For the full 500/whatever pokedex there should be some Ru/Sa/E and FR/LG ONLY guys so they still have the incentive for people to buy those and a bonus for those who allready have it.

I think they should bring back Johto for a little honestly. That was my favorite region of any game. Hoenn is plugged right into it with Emerald so that isn't an issue and Kanto isn't that far and we've had it in every single generation so I don't think anyone would miss that for a little especially when they can send thier guys right over to emerald and then to Diamond/Pearl. They could really make these games have the best of every world and make it work. I mean hell, having ONLY new guys in the main game would be real cool too, then you just trade all the others over or something. That may seem like the "Two steps forward, one step backwards" that I felt about Ru/Sa for a while but you CAN just send all the others right over so that wouldn't be a real problem I don't think.

[Poryhedron]

> The new generation of pokemon. What are your views on nontendo adding new pokemon to the world. We all know munchlax is being put in, but are nintendo going over the top with the amount of pokemon they are adding. Should they round it off for the up and coming diamond and pearl games to something like a nice 400.

I agree that it would be nice not to end up with 500-or-so species to keep track of...however, I don't seriously believe that Nintendo would deviate from what has been a highly successful pattern (remember, to Nintendo, success isn't about community satisfaction. It's about sales.)

>should the two up and coming games be set in a new pokemon region or one of the ones already made (kanto, johto, hoenn, orre). Would a DS version of the orre region (probably with wild pokemon) be intresting* (*note that this ties in with the next section). If you think they should create a new world what should it be like.

I don't see any reason to stay in the already-made pokémon regions. We've already gotten to know the Gym Leaders there, and unless the game is set a few decades in the past or future we'd just be seeing the same faces. We also know the layout of the various caves and such already. I suspect Game Freak would rather like to forget about Orre, since Genius Sonority's creation doesn't jive with the rest of the existing Pokémon settings (see the Where Is Orre, Anyway? discussion.) Also, before anyone brings this up, it is very highly unreasonable to want a single game that visits all of the regions. Let's not be silly here.

>Should the pokemon extend to 3D graphics on a hand held system or should they be touched up 2D games like at the moment. As mentioned above it may be interesting to see how the developers would do orre in 2D.

Consider Pokémon's target audience. This is not the Metal Gear Solid fanbase we're talking about. Pokémon had done reasonably well graphicswise as far as the innovations in RuSa graphics over RBYGSC (the Bike finally doesn't look squashed in any way.)

>How should the new features of the DS be used to enhance the gaming experience of these two new versions. Also how should the link between the GBA/media port be used to interact with these new games (eg. pokemon trading or mabye getting secret items like the mystery ticket on fire red and leaf green).

...I...have no idea. It doesn't make much sense to have the Pokémon or Item menus or the Town Map available at all times, and the only way I can think of for a stylus to come into play would be a cute little minigame that occurs once in the entire game. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

>DV's or IV's and EV's. Should pokemon go back to the old Dv system. For alot of people it just felt right to use DV's and stuff, and made raising the pokemon more enjoyable for them. Ev training annoys people and some think it has ruined the true meaning Nintendo originally said about raising pokemon with love and they will become stronger. For some it just isn't true pokemon with Iv's and EV's.

Well, there's next to no difference between DVs and IVs. The question here is Stat EXP or Effort Values...I think Stat EXP is a bit better. EVs just seem artificial. However, there's something I've been wondering about as far as stat training. Why is it that, when you want to get better at Defense, you should battle Metapod and the like? Wouldn't it make more sense if trying to damage a continually hardening target allowed you to practice, and thus improve, your Attack power? Why does getting hit with an Alakazam's Psychic powers help train you to use such powers yourself rather than training you to be able to resist them better? I think Attack and Defense should be switched as far as which enemies boost what. Speed can stay the way it is because one battler's Attack opposes the other's Defense, but Speed opposes Speed. HP...I'm not sure about.

>Day, night and time in general. For all people who have fire red or leaf green you may have noticed that there is no in game clock. For some having day and night added was an unbelievable and hugely fun aspect of the game. Even though ruby and sapphire still had time alot of the greatness that made the time in gold, silver and crystal. Like pokemon appearing at different times and Buenas password only being aired between 6pm and midnight. Also the loss of being able to set the day was a big blow for some. Events happening on different days was very cool in alot of peoples opions.

Yes, I do agree that all of that was cool. However, I can see why it might have proven undesirable. In order to accomplish everything, you would have to play the game on each of the various days of the week, and during morning, day, and night. Not everyone has a schedule that allows for that. School, jobs and/or bedtime can all oppose the time-based-event setup. Removing those from RuSa gave players the freedom to play when they had the free time, rather than having to distort their daily schedule in order to get Ledyba.

>Added ubers evry generation now means there are two many. Some people think there are to many ubers. Should Nintendo stop adding them (Ties in with the adding a 4th generation of pokemon section of discussion). Should nintendo only allow certain ubers on certain versions (ties in with the next section).

The problem with legendary pokémon is that they are supposed to be unique (well, most of them, anyway,) so there is no plausible way for two different player characters to catch the same legend. Thus, there have to be new legends every generation, because what fun is the game without any legends to hunt? Granted, Nintendo is ignoring that fact by placing Ho-Oh and the Legendary Beasts in Colloseum, but Colloseum isn't exactly being presented as a marvel of continuity. They're also ignoring that fact, however, by placing Ho-Oh and Lugia on Island 8...and I, personally, hope they don't repeat that sort of thing in Diamond/Pearl, because it doesn't make any sense at all. How can Ho-Oh and Lugia, each a unique legend, be in Hoenn and be caught by the GSC character, and also in the Sevii Islands being caught by Red? Nintendo has deliberately kissed continuity goodbye, this time with Game Freak's willing participation.[/quote]

>Pokedex or exclusive pokemon. Ruby and sapphire has introduced another type of pokedex with certain pokemon. Should in an effort to limit ubers make a pokedex for each version. with some pokemon including ubers not being able to be traded to the other versions because they are not in the pokedex. This could allow each version to be more exclusive, or do you prefer it the way it is (having access to all pokemon in all versions).

This might be the way to solve the Legend Problem, and I'd be fine with it. I don't see Nintendo implementing it, though. It would go against the "Catch 'Em All" ideal.

>Promotional events. Are nintendo going over the top with promotional events AND trading with newer versions. Are to many pokemon now hidden by tickets etc. Are nintendo making it to hard to get all of these special pokemon by having spread them over to many pokemon games. Even after red, blue and yellow (in gold, silver and crystal) it all the pokemon were already available in previous games and there weren't to many promotional events. The type of promo events and stuff were originally meant so that you would buy all the games to get all the pokemon (a marketing tactic), although this has forced people to not get the games therefore sales have stayed the same but the games are less fun. people who liked the series bought the games anyway.

Yes. Definitely going over the top with the promotions. Maybe they justified their lapse of continuity by convincing themselves that it would only matter to people who were lucky enough to obtain the Ticket, but in today's Information Age everyone knew about the tickets before the game ever reached our shores. Knowing about it and not being able to get it = being left out.

[Sceptile_Master]

Being able to trade from previous games instead of newer ones sounds really good. Nice pointer Aarkon. I think Johto would be nice to (or to a lesser extent Orre). The Tm thing sounds cool. Although i think the pokemon should round off at a nice 400. 500 would be to much IMO. I think they should add the feel that gold and silver gave to every place you visited. I really shouldn't be posting short posts for the moment but I'll think of something later I have done a lot of typing today. bee back with lots of my opinions later.

EDIT: I never saw pory's post. Oh well. Forgot to put in a big discussion point I am just about to edit the original post to include it. PS: pory I think they already have discarded the gotta catch em all slogan.

[Orion]

> The new generation of pokemon. What are your views on nontendo adding new pokemon to the world. We all know munchlax is being put in, but are nintendo going over the top with the amount of pokemon they are adding. Should they round it off for the up and coming diamond and pearl games to something like a nice 400.

400? That'd be adding ONLY 14 new Pokémon. That's just unconceivable. My guess is that it'll go to 451. And they WILL keep on adding Pokémon as long as there's fanbase. After all, Pokémon is not the fad it once was. It passed to from part of Nintendo's Legendary Franchises (Still falls short, but someday it will be.). I have the awful feeling that this Generation will emulate GSC... which means lack of ORIGINAL and INTERESTING Pokémon, and an unnecessary focus on old Pokémon rather than new ones. I just hope my feelings are wrong, but with Munchlax as the only known Pokémon... not many hopes.

>should the two up and coming games be set in a new pokemon region or one of the ones already made (kanto, johto, hoenn, orre). Would a DS version of the orre region (probably with wild pokemon) be intresting* (*note that this ties in with the next section). If you think they should create a new world what should it be like.

It'll be a new Region for sure. GSC was half-new Region, and RSE was ALL new. Why they should limit the DS potential just to an existing Region? We know the drill... either a remade Region or a sequel-ish feeling. I hope it's just a new Region, and if they add the possibility of traveling back to an older Region, keep the sequel feeling, BUT DON'T butcher the old place!

>Should the pokemon extend to 3D graphics on a hand held system or should they be touched up 2D games like at the moment. As mentioned above it may be interesting to see how the developers would do orre in 2D.

I think taking 2D to its max would be the way to go. 3D Pokémon games are either not very good or too short. I'd rather see a big, awesome Region with a deeper storyline than stunning 3D animation, really... and haven't you noticed that Nintendo wants to get rid of the apparent failure Pokémon Colosseum was? I bet my @$$ that we'll never hear the words Cipher, Snagem, Purification, Shadow Pokémon and Hyper Mode again...

>How should the new features of the DS be used to enhance the gaming experience of these two new versions. Also how should the link between the GBA/media port be used to interact with these new games (eg. pokemon trading or mabye getting secret items like the mystery ticket on fire red and leaf green).

I've ran out of ideas on how to improve Pokémon. They've really satisfied me with the 3rd Generation... I just hope the two screens involve an interesting feature.

>DV's or IV's and EV's. Should pokemon go back to the old Dv system. For alot of people it just felt right to use DV's and stuff, and made raising the pokemon more enjoyable for them. Ev training annoys people and some think it has ruined the true meaning Nintendo originally said about raising pokemon with love and they will become stronger. For some it just isn't true pokemon with Iv's and EV's.

Nope, at all. If anything, IVs and EVs made it possible for middle-to-low Tier Pokémon to get into the competition. How are they intending to put the phrase "Skilled Trainers should try to win with their favorites" when your favorites don't have a chance at all due to DVs and Max Stats? Really, only Top-5 Tier Pokémon had enough chance in RBY AND GSC. I really don't see how it ruins the original feeling. If anything, you get to SPECIALIZE your beloved Pokémon in the Stat they like the most. And you get to pass more time with them, thinking on how you'll train them. IVs and EVs also give you a satisfaction when you're done, because it ACTUALLY takes effort! The ONLY changes I can see on this awesome system is raising the EV Cap to 765, so you'll be able to max out half of your Pokémon's Stats. Also, maybe returning to the original DV numbers (0 to 15), as for unlucky fellows it's frustrating to attempt at high IVs. 0 to 31 and not-as-hereditary Breeding make unlucky ones unhappy. Oh well, I guess that most people are lazy bums that can't care less to actually think how they will train their Pokémon. IVs and EVs are there to stay, I hope. I'm OK with DVs, but NOT with Max Stats. If they go back to the GSC frenziness, I'll stay with the 3rd Generation, thanks...

>Day, night and time in general. For all people who have fire red or leaf green you may have noticed that there is no in game clock. For some having day and night added was an unbelievable and hugely fun aspect of the game. Even though ruby and sapphire still had time alot of the greatness that made the time in gold, silver and crystal. Like pokemon appearing at different times and Buenas password only being aired between 6pm and midnight. Also the loss of being able to set the day was a big blow for some. Events happening on different days was very cool in alot of peoples opions.

Agreed. Just make it deeper. A Calendar is something I'd like to see too. (YEAR Calendar, not WEEK Calendar as in GSC...). It'd expand the game a bit. Like receiving special Items at your Birthday and finding rare Pokémon in certain places at certain seasons of the year. And just make the night atmosphere darker, not black as in GSC...

>Added ubers evry generation now means there are two many. Some people think there are to many ubers. Should Nintendo stop adding them (Ties in with the adding a 4th generation of pokemon section of discussion). Should nintendo only allow certain ubers on certain versions (ties in with the next section).

There will always be 00bers in all new games, since they expand the "Legend". What Legend, you ask? I don't know. I've deviced many possibilities, but maybe Nintendo will reveal the thruth to us someday... and the point about only allowing certain 00bers is kinda pointless. Unless the area is full of n00bs, 00ber Clause is ALWAYS in effect among most players anyway.

>Pokedex or exclusive pokemon. Ruby and sapphire has introduced another type of pokedex with certain pokemon. Should in an effort to limit ubers make a pokedex for each version. with some pokemon including ubers not being able to be traded to the other versions because they are not in the pokedex. This could allow each version to be more exclusive, or do you prefer it the way it is (having access to all pokemon in all versions).

The old way is the more feasible, and since it seems those versions will be immediately compatible with the 3rd Generation, there'll be no need for a certain Pokédex.

>Promotional events. Are nintendo going over the top with promotional events AND trading with newer versions. Are to many pokemon now hidden by tickets etc. Are nintendo making it to hard to get all of these special pokemon by having spread them over to many pokemon games. Even after red, blue and yellow (in gold, silver and crystal) it all the pokemon were already available in previous games and there weren't to many promotional events. The type of promo events and stuff were originally meant so that you would buy all the games to get all the pokemon (a marketing tactic), although this has forced people to not get the games therefore sales have stayed the same but the games are less fun. people who liked the series bought the games anyway.

There will ALWAYS be promotions as long as there are promotional Pokémon. You know the TRUE reason of the success of Pokémon in Japan? It was just another Game Boy game that was doomed to oblivion until Game Freak announced the secret Pokémon, Mew... that's why we'll see special Pokémon within every generation. Whereas the Mew clones are getting old, I wouldn't mind seeing another Pokémon with a twist between games as Deoxys was. From being a freak Poké I happened to hate, transformed in one of the most interesting Pokémon ever with so many forms.

>Gold, Silver and crystal were revolutionary. Should the series go back to all the features and likness of gold, silver and crystal version. Alot of people don't have the newer games as they think they are inferior. Should the new games go back to how gold, silver and crystal was. For alot of people the feel of these games was superb. How everything reflected the mood perfectly. Like the first time you stepped into Ilex forest. Now the forests don't have much feel about them. There are so many reasons it should make a decent discussion topic.

Apart from many things that are still available in the 3rd Generation, I don't see much appeal to GSC... and NO Forest will EVER have the same feeling as Viridian Forest back in RBY.

>Are you tired of 8 badges and then the elite four. Should the story be changed. Also should the game have more of a longer and more absorbing plot, to make it into an epic tale. One that could possibly open a story line discussion forum. If so what do you think the story should be like/include. Also should there be more effort put into the after elite four or main story type thing (if you don't want the elite four) world. Alot of people find the islands very lacking and ruby and sapphire didn't have much.

Not that I'm tired, but I'd like something new. Maybe Colosseum-ish, but better done. Or maybe a Tourney System, where instead of winning Badges, you have to win Tournaments in order to win your pass to the final Region Tournament. Oh well, I just hope for a deeper plot and a Team/Organization as evil as Cipher was...

I might add more if needed...

[Sceptile_Master]

Just to add. I am not trying to be opinionated in the suggested topics thing. It would be good to try and limit from thinking some ideas are my opinion. Note that i will post all my opinions tomorrow (I have done alot of typing today).

[rinku]

Whew. Huge posts.

I won't try to address each point, and apologise if I duplicate some of the other replies, but here are my thoughts:

They won't be changing the new effort scheme. They took a huge gamble making R/S incompatible with previous versions in order to add new features and improve those added in GSC (i.e. making gender independant of stats). Any future added features will be able to use the various hidden values for variety, and I'd expect to see more use of nature and special abilities in terms of game effect (i.e. look at how Emerald has expanded non-battle ability use). The old effort scheme was boring - you just kept training against anything until your pokémon maxed out effort on all stats. The new scheme is superior *because* it does not allow maximum values in all stats - you have choices to make as a trainer apart from what moveset to use.

Looks like they are already trialling 3D for the DS with Pokémon Dash. I'd expect them to move to 3D if possible, though Game Freak may choose to play it safe. Cell shading to get the anime look would be most effective IMHO, not the ray-traced style of Stadium/Colosseum. At the very least, 3D walkaround mode would be good.

I'd expect new areas, though they may go the route of GS and cover previous areas as well. They could be saving the big one for the eventual Gamecube replacement. I've previously posted my hunch that they'll set it in Hokkaido and go with an Ice theme. Glacia is from somewhere far away from Hoenn, after all.

There surely will be more than 14 pokémon added. I think even 451 is too low for a whole generation (only 65 new ones?) and would expect 501 as the new total. Many of these, however, will be new 3rd stages and pre-evos.

I reckon time will return, and since the game is guaranteed to be played on a backlit screen they'll put back in night effects (personally, I'd make it a game option. Some people only get to play at night). DS *should* have a reliable clock and calender as it's meant to have diary functions built in. I'd expect the pokémon games just to use the system's clock time. Depends on how many complaints they've gotten over reduced clock functions vs having to wait for clock based events.

You can count on there being powerful reward pokémon, but I'd expect them to be more in the vein of Rayquayza than Mewtwo (i.e. at least one major weakness). There will be promotionals, but perhaps this time they won't hard code them into the game? Would not be impossible to set aside a section of EPROM to accept the full data for one or two special pokémon. This would prevent pre-release revelations from ROM hackers (indeed, they could even hold of designing the bugger until after release). On the flip side, this might open the door to people hacking in custom pokémon... so on reflection they would be unlikely to do it. They may work harder on scrambling the data though.

One thing I think they should do is make it possible to trade between a RSEFRLG cart and a DP cart that have been put into the same DS. This would be a great convenience for those players who own both generations. Battling would probably remain limited to needing 2 DS consoles though - I can't see them making it easy to play both sides of a battle.

Here's a feature that would be cool - allow the import of the trainer details from an old cart when starting DP. Including such things as badges and pokédex (or... dare we dream... all your boxes...!?). Most players restart a few times anyway to get all the starters, so you could still experience the game stand alone before you imported your old save. If they did offer importing of wholesale saves I'd expect it would result in wiping the old cart's save, otherwise it would make it too easy to duplicate. But I'd be in it.

[SWAMPERT1]

Here is my point of view. The pokemon count should be put up 100/150 ORIGINAL pokemon. I dont want stupid barely diffrent pokemon and have Nintendo pass them of as "NEW".

New game + pokes should equal a new region (maybe even two). I think that later on Kanto, Johto and Hoenn should be in the gameand maybe it could be like the anime were you can only take ONE pokemon into the region with you and you have to catch new Pokemon and of course, the Gym leaders MUST be stronger in the regions (Because your poke has already gone threw a region remember). Orre in D/P is a no-no.

Pokemon should stay in 2D. It hate all 3D Pokemon Games besides PS1.

For the whole trading thing, I dont really care. I'll leave it up to the big N.

I never used IVs/DVs/WhateverEs so, no comment.

Day/Night/Time would be a nice feature BUT if I can get a better, longer game without it then I will. This will probably be in it because Game Freak said, "We are not cutting any corners in these games."

I dont really care about Ubers. I found is that if you cant beat an uber without an uber use an uber! Did that make sence? Anywho if certain "Ubers" can be found in only a certain version then that may be cool.

Keep the Dex the same

Promo events suck. They are never near 1000KM of me.

These games are the FIRST Pokemon Games on the DS, Nintendo should add one thing if any, A better, longer, more detailed story.

[Dark Scizor]

Every other region apart from Oore, no promo events for the super rare pokémon of that game or some money making ploy like in Pokémon Channel .

Backwards compatibility. Day/night, days of the week and time (so you can check whenever like on G/S) would be nice to have. Your mom to be a bank again would be good, having 1,999,998 again .

[Silent Dragonfly]

I'd be happier sticking with 2D. The current 3D graphics on gamecube are horrible, and i shouldn't think DS is in the same leauge as the GCN. Colosseum's graphic were simply taken from Stad2 and touched up a little, and even 3rd Gen pokes look poor. Dusclops look like a blocky piece of plastecine. The shadows are terrible. The shadow of jumpluff's "buds" are sqaure instead of circular. Keep 2D.

500 seems a good number for now. Though 550 wouldn't surprise me either. (GS added 100, RuSa added 135!!!!) Hopefully any new baby forms will be useful, the happiness babies are just a hinderance if you've bred for a team member and don't really give much. Wynaut's Encore rocked though. I dread to think how many ledgendaries/ubers will show up, RBY had 5, GSC added 6 and RuSa gave us another 10! Evos for GSC pokes would be nice, they are crappy on majority with hunks of crap like delibird and sunflora.

Please, no GSC revival. The story was crappy and lacked any depth, Rocket were pretty pathetic forever crying about giovanni, the "rival" never really interacted - he was just there every so often to battle, dungeons were very small, and the radio was pretty useless. Bleh.

One thing I would like to see from GSC is the true time events, darkness at night, events on certain days. A yearly calendar would be a definate no-no. I aint gonna wait half a year to get winter and summer pokémon.

I wouldn't like to see a change in storyline, 8 gyms -> Elite 4 isn't bad, keeping that base is fine, as long as you have plenty of side-stories.

I definatly would want 3rd gen compatibility, and I'm with rinku with the EV system, it makes it much more customisable and interesting. I would like to see new abilities and possibly even HP altering natures.

Thats about it, I think

EDIT: Corrected number added to RuSa

[Razola]

> The new generation of pokemon. What are your views on nontendo adding new pokemon to the world. We all know munchlax is being put in, but are nintendo going over the top with the amount of pokemon they are adding. Should they round it off for the up and coming diamond and pearl games to something like a nice 400.

I can say that I wouldn't mind 400 if it meant that they would all be catchable in Diamond and Pearl, rather than requiring us to buy three other games to have them all.

Otherwise, 450 sounds good. But Munchlax means more worthless pre-evos, so up it to 500 because they've pretty much told us there's going to be crap.

>should the two up and coming games be set in a new pokemon region or one of the ones already made (kanto, johto, hoenn, orre). Would a DS version of the orre region (probably with wild pokemon) be intresting* (*note that this ties in with the next section). If you think they should create a new world what should it be like.

If they give us all four existing regions without half-assing any like Gold/Silver's Kanto (which was understandable due to hardware limitations), then I say yes.

Otherwise focus on something new and BIG. Hoenn was too damn small

>Should the pokemon extend to 3D graphics on a hand held system or should they be touched up 2D games like at the moment. As mentioned above it may be interesting to see how the developers would do orre in 2D.

2D graphics. The PS1 and N64 era of graphics aged horribly, and that's about what to expect on the DS in terms of 3D. I say 2D graphics because if Nintendo does the same hack-job they did graphically on Ruby/Sapphire, I'd rather have crappy 2D graphics than 3D.

>How should the new features of the DS be used to enhance the gaming experience of these two new versions. Also how should the link between the GBA/media port be used to interact with these new games (eg. pokemon trading or mabye getting secret items like the mystery ticket on fire red and leaf green).

The GBA port is simple: transfer the pokemon from older generation.

Microphone: While incredibly nerdy, I'm sure mnay pokegeeks would love to be able to have attacks on voice commands. I can bet Animelee would just love to be able to yell "Vine Whip!" and get said results in game.

Wireless: Internet access for a ladder-esque ranking system would be badass.

Stylus: It would be nice to have an Animal Crossing design element for your avatar. Draw designs for his/her hat, shirt, etc.

>DV's or IV's and EV's. Should pokemon go back to the old Dv system. For alot of people it just felt right to use DV's and stuff, and made raising the pokemon more enjoyable for them. Ev training annoys people and some think it has ruined the true meaning Nintendo originally said about raising pokemon with love and they will become stronger. For some it just isn't true pokemon with Iv's and EV's.

I saw drop both or at the very least stop making them hidden numbers. I for one would like to see them go, as they serve no purpose besides making us fight a billion meaningless fights. Make something simpler, such as an attitude system. Treat your pokemon like shit? Offensive stats be a bit higher at the risk of disloyalty. Train them hard? Power points for certain attacks may rise.

And drop the random stat potential, as it's horrible for tournaments and encourages cheating. First off, it's bullshit that we should have to keep searching for the magical pokemon with perfect stats. That doesn't cater to skill at all. Second, it's more hidden numbers.

As you can tell, I don't like to work my way through the game, only to find out that my entire team is absolute crap because of hidden circumstances.

>Day, night and time in general. For all people who have fire red or leaf green you may have noticed that there is no in game clock. For some having day and night added was an unbelievable and hugely fun aspect of the game. Even though ruby and sapphire still had time alot of the greatness that made the time in gold, silver and crystal. Like pokemon appearing at different times and Buenas password only being aired between 6pm and midnight. Also the loss of being able to set the day was a big blow for some. Events happening on different days was very cool in alot of peoples opions.

Day and Night: Put it in, but not in real time. Something like: 1 hour Real Time = 24 hours Game Time. People simply don't have schedules tha tcan revolve around pokemon.

Weekdays: In, but try to minimize how critical they are. Good items earned on on certain days should be scheduled on weekends (when people have the most free time).

Special Events: In, but even less critical than Weekly events. Mostly stuff to show you participated in said event.

>Added ubers evry generation now means there are two many. Some people think there are to many ubers. Should Nintendo stop adding them (Ties in with the adding a 4th generation of pokemon section of discussion). Should nintendo only allow certain ubers on certain versions (ties in with the next section).

I do NOT like Legendary anything in any game as they don't wreck skill outright but diversity. Rather than skill in many possible factors, Legends boils down to your skill in a few factors.

One Legend. No more, no less.

[quote]>Pokedex or exclusive pokemon. Ruby and sapphire has introduced another type of pokedex with certain pokemon. Should in an effort to limit ubers make a pokedex for each version. with some pokemon including ubers not being able to be traded to the other versions because they are not in the pokedex. This could allow each version to be more exclusive, or do you prefer it the way it is (having access to all pokemon in all versions).
Both games should have access to all pokemon, be it in their version or gained through trading from another version.

>Promotional events. Are nintendo going over the top with promotional events AND trading with newer versions. Are to many pokemon now hidden by tickets etc. Are nintendo making it to hard to get all of these special pokemon by having spread them over to many pokemon games. Even after red, blue and yellow (in gold, silver and crystal) it all the pokemon were already available in previous games and there weren't to many promotional events. The type of promo events and stuff were originally meant so that you would buy all the games to get all the pokemon (a marketing tactic), although this has forced people to not get the games therefore sales have stayed the same but the games are less fun. people who liked the series bought the games anyway.

Nintendo needs to stop making Pokemon a cash cow and more a respected franchise. This means no more bullshit like we are seeing with this current generation. To currently "Catch 'em all", you need:

Ruby
Sapphire
Colosseum
Fire Red
Leaf Green

That's US $170 in software, and going way too far to make a quick buck.

Events should also not hand out "must-haves" and more cool stuff. Like a Snorlax with an Afro or a Deoxys that looks like a Metroid. I like Pokemon for it's competitive potential, and handing out stuff that might be good in tournaments is just wrong. Either ban them from tournies or stop handing them out.

>Gold, Silver and crystal were revolutionary. Should the series go back to all the features and likness of gold, silver and crystal version. Alot of people don't have the newer games as they think they are inferior. Should the new games go back to how gold, silver and crystal was. For alot of people the feel of these games was superb. How everything reflected the mood perfectly. Like the first time you stepped into Ilex forest. Now the forests don't have much feel about them. There are so many reasons it should make a decent discussion topic.

I'll touch on this in a bit.

>Are you tired of 8 badges and then the elite four. Should the story be changed. Also should the game have more of a longer and more absorbing plot, to make it into an epic tale. One that could possibly open a story line discussion forum. If so what do you think the story should be like/include. Also should there be more effort put into the after elite four or main story type thing (if you don't want the elite four) world. Alot of people find the islands very lacking and ruby and sapphire didn't have much.

I want open, GTA styled gameplay. Eight gym leaders is fine (but STOP making them one-trick ponies. Make them hard for once, Nintendo) an so is Elite Four, but those should be optional things to do.

Pokemon lends itself to open-ended gameplay. I don't want a lot of linear stuff and centralized plots. Sure, give us plenty of missions to do: stop evil plots, help out a town, etc. Give us a ton of shit to do. But don't force us to do certain things in order or do them at all (though have a few key plot missions to unlock certain things isn't always too bad).

Pokemon should this: you're a kid collecting pokemon and sometimes getting into random situations. But enough of fighting gym leaders 1-8 and all this other nonsense.

Who knows if this topic does really well mabye we could send it to Nintendo.

They won't read it.

They make changes if it is profitable.

They already know that they can slap "Pokemon" on a pile of shit and make millions. Nintendo is only going to make changes for the sake of making a good game.

[Ice Rabbit]

I really don't care how many Pokémon there are, just that there are good ones (not as much novelty crap).

I would prefer 2d, it's easier to do well on. That's just me. The DS has graphics like or a bit better than the N64. Not really ready to go 3d.

I really don't care about what mechanics they use, just as long as it's complicated.

Screw the promotional events. Why do they give must-haves away? Why can't they be ingame? The only thing promotional events should be used for is cool looking versions of Pokémon (that are still the same). I'm sick of missing out on everything.

[rinku]

Raz, I'd take issue with one of your comments:

Nintendo needs to stop making Pokemon a cash cow and more a respected franchise. This means no more bullshit like we are seeing with this current generation. To currently "Catch 'em all", you need:

Ruby
Sapphire
Colosseum
Fire Red
Leaf Green

That's US $170 in software, and going way too far to make a quick buck.

That's not really true. All you need is one cart, plus a trading network that includes the others. While Nintendo certainly don't object to obsessive fans who buy the lot, you have *never* been able to "catch 'em all" without trading. If that's your goal (and you certainly don't need it to enjoy the game), the cheap option is and always has been to make friends.

By all means, criticise the promotional concept - that's a seperate issue, though the promotional ones have been excluded from the "complete the pokédex" quests. But you do not need to buy those extra games unless you want to, especially the duplicates.

[Razola]

That's not really true. All you need is one cart, plus a trading network that includes the others.

For many, that's not easy to set up, and a pain to do.

And even if you're going to network; that is still $170 between you all as opposed to the $60 we had in the last two generations.

While Nintendo certainly don't object to obsessive fans who buy the lot, you have *never* been able to "catch 'em all" without trading.

It was fine when it was 10 or so pokemon on a seperate cart. But look at Colosseum. Have to catch and purify a whole other batch to give to your buddy. That's VERY annoying, especially for those of us who can't dedicate our lives to catching 'em all.

If that's your goal (and you certainly don't need it to enjoy the game), the cheap option is and always has been to make friends.

That's not cheap. Let me repeat myself:

Red and Blue: 60 bucks
Gold and Silver: 60 bucks
Ruby and Sapphire and friends: 170 bucks

Doesn't matter whose hide it's coming out of, the bottom line is that someone is going to have to spend a little more to get certain pokemon.

By all means, criticise the promotional concept - that's a seperate issue, though the promotional ones have been excluded from the "complete the pokédex" quests.

That's great and all, but you know most people won't consider it complete until they really have them all.

[rinku]

Let me repeat myself:

Red and Blue: 60 bucks
Gold and Silver: 60 bucks
Ruby and Sapphire and friends: 170 bucks

So... $120 to catch 249 (excluding Mew and Celebi) vs $170 to catch 380 (excluding Mex, Celebi, Jirachi, Lugia, Deoxys). Or $120 to catch around 350 with Ruby, Sapphire, FR & LG alone. Or, to put it in proper context:

Red & Blue: 150 pokémon, $30 each for you and a freind.
Gold & Silver: +100 pokémon, $30 each for you and a friend, 2 years later

Ruby & Sapphire: 200 pokémon, $30 each for you and a friend
FR & LG: +about 150 pokémon, $30 each for you and a friend 1 year later, though geting the wireless adaptor cartainly is a nice bonus, you would agree.

Colosseum certainly changes the above equation in terms of "catch 'em all", since access to it is currently required to do so, which was not the case with Stadium. And I will agree with you that it is not worth the expense of buying the game just to get the pokémon on it. But this again comes back to your trading network. All you need is to *know* someone who has it, or someone who knows someone who has it and can get them for you. Also, as you have yourself pointed out many times, you can rent a copy if that's all you want.

Hey, I can't help it if you have no friends...

[Razola]

Hey, I can't help it if you have no friends...

You're missing the point: the money is still coming out of SOMEONE. I'm not a greedy bastard, I'm stating what Nintendo is getting, not who's spending. The bottom line is that we the consumers are spending more. And even you can admit that it's a pain in the ass to have to go through all this work for a couple pokemon.

All pokemon on two versions worked and didn't reek too much of corporate bastards.

And if you want to tip the scales, throw in the cash for buying the hardware.

[Mister_Gadget]

Day/Night and the 4 Seasons will be cool: If in the game is summer, you will see the sun shining, the flower growing and you can catch some plant type Pokemon like Sunkern, in winter some ice type Pokemon. In an area with an inactive Volcano you can catch fire type Pokemon, even the starters: Charmander, Cyndaquil... Fish every water type Pokemon, even the starters: Squirtle, Totodile... also the plant starters on any grass area. 2D Animation like in Crystal, Emerald: Pokemon have their own Animation but also the Attacks. All gyms, like in Kanto/Johto, first the rock-type gym and finally the dragon-type gym with all the Kanto/Johto/Hoenn Pokemon, and new Gyms with dark-type Pokemon, open only at night, or light-type Pokemon. You'll have 18 badges. Perhaps in these games there will be mineral-type Pokemon like Diamond/Flying.
The GSC-Pokedex with the search-by-type Mode.
After the Elite 4 you can rebattle the Gym Leaders, like in Emerald and after a certain time you can battle them again (also the Elite 4), so at the end they'll have Level 100 Pokemon with new Attacks each time you rebattle them.

[Iveechan]

All I want... is a "proper" jungle or desert island. Or a rainforest which is like a jungle but more awesome. Safari zone in the new games is too lush and green to be a savannah (sp?) and looks too much like somebody's backyard to be a jungle. I've made up a canopy area where you actually walk on thick treetops and encounter Pokemon either randomly or in thick leaf bunches.

And, like others have mentioned, an ice area that's more than a cave. It could be an evergreen forest type place where the towns have lodges and look something like northern Canada and Alaska, and maybe if you travel far enough, you reach a frozen tundra where an Ice type legend dwells.

An underwater city would be neat also. There's just so many ways to be creative with environments in Pokemon games.

Onto the technical aspect, I think somebody mentioned this, but raising the EV cap so you can max out more than 2 stats. Or making the requirement to a maxed out stat to be lower so you have a chance to max out other stats. I just think it's unfair that a max speed and special attack Gengar can pulverize anything while deciding EV's for a Tyranitar can be a pain. The new games encourage speed and attacks too much, so slower Pokemon are at the short end of the stick, even tanks.

[rinku]

You're missing the point: the money is still coming out of SOMEONE. I'm not a greedy bastard, I'm stating what Nintendo is getting, not who's spending. The bottom line is that we the consumers are spending more. And even you can admit that it's a pain in the ass to have to go through all this work for a couple pokemon.

All pokemon on two versions worked and didn't reek too much of corporate bastards.

And if you want to tip the scales, throw in the cash for buying the hardware.

Hardware argument only holds water if you ignore all the other titles a consumer is interested in. I think we agree that buying a Gamecube and link cable *just* to get a few dozen pokémon is stupid. But there are plenty of other good games out there for the cube.

I dunno Raz. What do you want Nintendo to do? Give the games away and go bankrupt? Produce one complete pokémon game and then close down the franchise altogther? Are you just bitter that you felt let down by Colosseum (which I agree is a flawed product, though not IMHO worthless in itself). Would you rather that Gamefreak do *not* develop the next set of games for the DS?

I don't object to having to work to complete the pokédex. No more than I object to having to spend a lot of time in the Safari Zone, or fishing, or running around areas with a 1% chance of encounter.

My main point is that you are objecting to something that was built into Red & Green (even before Blue) - not being able to complete the pokédex from one cart is the main point of the collecting design of the game. You are right - someone has to buy the new games... but it doesn't have to be someone who previously owned an old one. Of course Nintendo want sales, but I can guarantee you that they value new customers more than established ones who won't be buying as much new hardware and may not be interested in expanding their existing game library. If there is anything truly insidious about pokémon it is simply that it does encourage players to get their associates into Nintendo so they can battle and trade. Again - nothing has changed in nine years, except the hardware is getting better.

A final (counter) point: you need the same purchases to battle as to trade - one cart each, one GBA each and a cable (classically, one sibling gets Red, one gets Blue). After the game's plot has been finished, after all the pokémon have been collected... it is the link battling aspect of the game which has the most legs and value for money anyway.

[Razola]

Hardware argument only holds water if you ignore all the other titles a consumer is interested in.

Which is why I didn't originally add it.

I dunno Raz. What do you want Nintendo to do? Give the games away and go bankrupt?

Wonderful strawman, but I've already listed what I wanted:

All pokemon on two versions worked and didn't reek too much of corporate bastards.

I suggest actually reading my posts next time. At the very least, it'll cut down on your typing.

Produce one complete pokémon game and then close down the franchise altogther?

Oh noes! Sell one seperate game!? This doesn't work at all for other games!

Oh wait. It does.

Are you just bitter that you felt let down by Colosseum (which I agree is a flawed product, though not IMHO worthless in itself). Would you rather that Gamefreak do *not* develop the next set of games for the DS?

If it was up to me, I'd hand off development to Intelligent Systems. Play Colosseum and then play Paper Mario 2. Or play Ruby and Sapphire, then Advance Wars (1 or 2, I don't care which).

Am I bitter that Colosseum sucked? Not really, I saw it coming. I've already stated that I'm not too crazy about relying on it for pokemon.

And hey, none of my friends own pokemon games. And I'm not short on friends either. And I'm not keen on the idea of befriending anyone who thinks Colosseum is a quality. And either way, I shouldn't have to jump through such hoops to begin with.

I don't object to having to work to complete the pokédex. No more than I object to having to spend a lot of time in the Safari Zone, or fishing, or running around areas with a 1% chance of encounter.

Then that's your problem. I'm also talking about cash things here, though such elements are game design flaws.

My main point is that you are objecting to something that was built into Red & Green (even before Blue) - not being able to complete the pokédex from one cart is the main point of the collecting design of the game.

Are you referring to the whole two version issues. I hope - no, PRAY- that you aren't. Because I already stated that I'm down with two versions. Two versions is fine. You ignoring what I have said, especially since that is a major theme of your post, is not.

You are right - someone has to buy the new games... but it doesn't have to be someone who previously owned an old one.

Logic dictates that someone who is buying Colosseum is at least going to have Ruby and/or Sapphire. I pity any person who is buying just Colosseum.

Of course Nintendo want sales, but I can guarantee you that they value new customers more than established ones who won't be buying as much new hardware and may not be interested in expanding their existing game library.

Nintendo caters to their existing consumers almost to a fault.

If there is anything truly insidious about pokémon it is simply that it does encourage players to get their associates into Nintendo so they can battle and trade. Again - nothing has changed in nine years, except the hardware is getting better.

And the requirements are going up.

A final (counter) point: you need the same purchases to battle as to trade - one cart each, one GBA each and a cable (classically, one sibling gets Red, one gets Blue). After the game's plot has been finished, after all the pokémon have been collected... it is the link battling aspect of the game which has the most legs and value for money anyway.

You are an idiot. I've been holding it back, but I can't any longer.

IT COMES OFF AS VERY IGNORANT WHEN THE ENTIRE POINT OF YOUR THREAD ASSUMES SOMETHING THAT WAS PROVED FALSE IN THE VERY POST ABOVE YOU AS WELL AS A POST BEFORE THAT. THIS IS CALLED BAD DEBATING AND MAKES YOU LOOK LIKE A TOTAL WASTE OF OXYGEN.

You wanna debate? Then read my gotdamned posts.

[rinku]

And hey, none of my friends own pokemon games.

Meaning you have little experience in how the games works in the environment it was designed for - i.e. a bunch of friends all of whom own one pokémon cart and a gameboy each.

That's pretty much what I thought. As usual, you're projecting your own situation on the designers and complaining because they don't cater to you.

I was enjoying this little discussion up until the recent abuse, but I think I'll go back to ignoring your rants for a while now that you've gone irrational again.

Man, get some counselling or something.

[Razola]

I wonder if you'll actually admit to not reading my post, or just hide behind a pile of crap you call a post.

Meaning you have little experience in how the games works in the environment it was designed for - i.e. a bunch of friends all of whom own one pokémon cart and a gameboy each.

Ouch, sorry try again. Yeah, today I don't have any friends that own it. But back in Red and Blue, I was trading and battling in the lunch room.

Once you again you utterly fail at this.

That's pretty much what I thought.

Statements like this I looooooooove. You thought WRONG. How's that egg on your face tastin'?

As usual, you're projecting your own situation on the designers and complaining because they don't cater to you.

How retarded.

As a consumer, I have no right to be angry because the producer isn't satisfying me? What kind of corporate drone are you? I'm a paying customer, and I'll damn well complain about my situation. It isn't ideal for me, and I can tell you it isn't ideal for a lot of other people as well. Perhaps if this generation was online or something, the whole "five games to catch 'em all!" method would be tolerable.

But not all of us can manage this. You fail to see this, and I should probably mention that I CAN afford to buy all five games, so this isn't a personal issue. Unlike you, I'm also thinking of other people.

Not everyone has access to pokemon-loving fiends or a lot of money. Are you going to start your embarrassing song and dance, teasting them as if they have some sort of social disease. "Your friends don't have pokemon games! Nyeh! Nyeh!" you screech, acting as if Nintendo is infallible in their money-making schemes. Preaching as if the pokemon enviroment itself works and therefore cannot be criticized or changed.

Maybe that isn't such a good system anymore? Forcing people to have this and that to make everything work? At least not as a major franchise entry. Make it some shoot-off like Zelda's Four Swords, where it's good adventure but it's clearly no Wind Waker or Ocarina of Time.

You don't need one title in a rainbow of colors to encourage community interaction. You already said yourself that most people only care about battling. Bam, there's interaction and only one version required. You just nullified your own argument.

Trading itself is flawed. With a unlimited supply of pokemon in my cart, I can easily get Pokemon A and trade it for Pokemon B. There's no sacrifice involved. Hell, when I would take my game to the local comic shop on weekends (oh wait, I don't anything about the enviroment, right?), most of the trades were trade backs: just trading once to get the pokedex info and then trading back. It was a souless proccess. Only trading for evolution was fairly exciting. And THAT was always a trade-back. Simply put, actually "trading" never really occured.

Just expand multiplayer options, and you got your community. Only requires one version.

I was enjoying this little discussion up until the recent abuse, but I think I'll go back to ignoring your rants for a while now that you've gone irrational again.

Translation:

"Hey there, ya got me. I actually didn't read your post and you called me on it. I'm now basically going to stop replying in this post to avoid any more embarrassment."

Of course my posts are irrational to you. That's because you are too lazy/scared/whatever to actually read my posts and engage me. OR you know that I'm right and you don't have the guts to admit it.

I need get some counselling or something.

Maybe. I dunno.

EDIT: It's quite clear that, at this point, you are trying to attack me in the hopes of taking the focus off your own incompetence. Sorry, ain't going to work. You screwed up, deal with it.

[Legends-Kuja]

Pokemon story = PHAIL

I want a decent damn story for once. I'm fed up of only having one moment of urgency during the entire game (RBY: The Silph Tower GSC: The Radio Tower R/S: The entire deal when you discover the enemy team's base--> the fight with the prevailing cart's legend.) Granted, R/S was ten times better with this, but I still felt like the story is still too crappy (sorta like Sonic, you'd think they'd come up with a good plot by now...). Although I like to stop and smell the roses, I'd also like to watch my Pokemon tango with the ruthless evil organization over some hostages, save the world Pokemon movie style, or brave a natural disaster on more than one grand occasion.

[PKMN Master]

I have the awful feeling that this Generation will emulate GSC... which means lack of ORIGINAL and INTERESTING Pokémon, and an unnecessary focus on old Pokémon rather than new ones. I just hope my feelings are wrong, but with Munchlax as the only known Pokémon... not many hopes.

Ok, I guess it's ok to have your own opinion, but once again I have to repeat this: GSC was the peak, the top, the highest point in pokémon videogames. There won't be anything better than that. 100 new pokemon were added, many of which, btw, continue to be standard (can you say blissey, skarmory, tyranitar, lanturn etc?) RS generation brought the remaining changes that should have been in GSC, about gameplay that is. Of course, the storyline wasn't the most deep one, but it had all the elements to make it good. And yeah... gosh, I recently played Stadium 2 with my brother, and it feels so much better than colosseum... I mean, you can battle a lot, but when you're tired, or simply you aren't in the mood fo battling, just go and play minigames... that was so much fun!... the one thing I agree with you is that Munchlax doesn't give many hopes...

I'd like to see the same play system (up to emerald, of course). Orre should be forgotten forever... it's not even a Japanese region as Kanto/Johto/Hoenn are! or either they should give us the three regions and a new one (that would be sooo long, but still good) or a new one, but much, much larger...

450 or so pokemon seem about right... I think they should stop at 500 hundred... anymore than that would be a pain.

The one thing I would really ask Nintendo: Don't forget the players that have been around RBY days... it's been awful with RS generation. Many of us are being left out. They're just focusing on bringing new kids; ok, it's always good to do that. But that's not the only market. And pls, stop making us spend so much money, 5 GBA versions, and one *coughcrappycough* GC game are a lot of money.

I understand Rinku's point, but you're only watching one side of the equation: you have, ahem, kids to play with. The only person I know that plays pokemon is my brother, and he's not as interested in the game as me. So it's rather difficult to find someone who plays pokemon around here, let alone to become friends with them... also, I don't have that much free time either I rather go to sleep, or study what I'm supposed to, instead of going to some place to trade pokemon, it's just a waste of time. You should be wondering then: why am I replying this post then? because, sadly, this is my only interaction with other players, besides my brother and online battling.

[Sceptile_Master]

Hi I'm back again. At the moment I am writing the story for Diamond and Pearl. It might take a few days but it is on its way GUARANTEED. Not bad debates but, I think that the argument between raz and rinku are getting kind of off topic and is no longer about diamond and pearl. Raz though i think you are kind of correct. So can I very kindly ask you two to stop it. Pppllleeeaaassseee. Anyways I WILL post it in a couple of days.

[Kris]

Sceptile Master, does that mean you KNOW what it is??

[rinku]

So can I very kindly ask you two to stop it.

Already stopped, as per my last post (despite Raz's scepticism).

Back on topic:

As to the pokémon mix... well, I have a great deal of faith in Game Freak to be careful. This is pretty much all they do, so they don't want to screw it up in terms of breaking the game. What I mean by that is I would expect a few new type combos, many new breeding possibilities, some strange evolution solutions (eg. Nincada, Hitmons) and a bit of backfilling of current 1 and 2 stage chains.

Every new pokémon has to be checked against not only the existing final stage set in terms of balance (most of the early stages can be ignored, though there are a few like Vigroth that need to be considered), but the various *possible* movesets have to be checked and cross checked. The bigger the world gets, the more this becomes a headache, and 2v2 battling and contest possibilities don't make the task any easier. GSC will always likely be the most innovative expansion simply because it was the first. R/S was in many ways a consolidation of the previous two generations. D/P has the opportunity to move forward.

They will want to retain backwards compatibility - but may introduce new types and moves in the same way they did in GSC. Since any new pokémon will not be backwards compatible to RSE/FRLG anyway, that would be one way of spicing up the mix.

I'd expect lots of minigames, which has to be good. I'd hope for a more involved plot, though a lot will depend on the actual demographics. If Nintendo's research shows the main customer base for the Advance games is still the 8-12 yo bracket, don't expect more adult plotting or complicated puzzles. Especially if they assess Colusseum as a flop. However, the larger scope of the DS cart should allow a lot more side quests at least.

[Powarun]

Couldn't the new DS games hold all of the areas already covered, Kanto, Johto, HOen and Orre. I would personally would like to see each one of these areas, plus another one, in one game. Each town used to its fullest extent, unlike the Kanto region in Gold and Silver. And to travel to each one would be aviable, once you collect a series of 8 gym leaders, and yeah that you make the games starting gym leaders really low levels, and the ending really low, but there could be bonuses, like if you complete the second region with only three pokemon then you can fight a certain legendary of that region. And once you reach the grand island or continent or whatever, you versus the elite trainers whose pokemon are all at level 100. Also with enablilng you to start from different areas seperate where pokemon are, but may alter the game play. Say you start out with the choice of Kanto Hoen or Johto, and your starting choices are the orginal three choices, and so after you can pick up another starter after completing that region, and when you start up again at another region, you get a choice of a starter, evolved or not of that region. That is what I would like to see.

[starjake]

Hmm. This is quite a debate.
However, as someone who knows nothing about actual programming, the point that jumps to my mind is this:

How much room is there on that tiny little cartrige?

Everybody's saying how they would like everything (even the kitchen sink) in D/P, but there must be a limit as to how many gimmicks and information can be physically crammed into a cartrige.

And there's another point to ponder. If you ask for a plain hot dog, its a certain amount of money. If you ask for a hot dog with ketchup, mustard, relish, and a toasted bun, it costs more. I would assume the same rule applies for cartriges (though I could be mistaken). If Nintendo stuffs this cartrige to the brim with things to do, yes it will be an excellent game, but at what price? Nintendo wants to make money, but they are more than smart enough to realize that higher prices = fewer people buying the games.

A third point (which I think has been mentioned; not entirely sure) is the age bracket. It's like giving a speech: you need to know your audience. Nintendo's going to do more research than a senior writing a thesis paper before they come out with a new game. That research wll tell them whether a) little kids (8 - 12ish); b) teenagers (13 - 17); c) college students (18 - 25); or d) adults (26 and up) play this game the most. If I had to guess, it would be option A, with C coming in second. Now, option A is a tricky one, because little kids are not buying these games; their parents are. Parents don't want to get their kids a difficult game because that results in lots of whining ("Daddy I can't do this!!!") and eventually results in giving / throwing the game away, which means the parents wasted thirty / forty dollars. If you want an example, I can assure you that the 8 - 12 age bracket was not the major one buying up Golden Sun; that game was simply to difficult.

Don't get me wrong; I would love to see all the aforementioned stuff (reintroduction of time and all that) in Diamond and Pearl. However (and I'm aware that my ignorance in modern technology and economics is probably showing), I think we (myself included) occassionally need a reality check.

And now is when I conveniently disappear to avoid the hornet's nest I've probably stirred up.

[Razola]

A) It wasn't off topic. It was clearly focused on what we wanted from Diamon and Pearl.

B) rinku has already admitted defeat, be it the standard "point and yell at Raz to stop being a meanie" method. I doubt it'll go on any further.

And there's a limit to how much the public is willing to pay. Cartridges are always set in price, regardless of development costs. They only raise prices based on big releases (like certain stores are selling Half-Life 2 for $55 instead of $50 because they know they can get away with it).

[Poryhedron]

I said this at the beginning, guys: A game that visits every region and explores it fully is a ridiculous idea. Someone suggestyed following the anime's route and dumping all but one pokémon when you cross over.../checks/ SWAMPERT1, that was. I'm sorry, but that's just laughable. Nintendo would never ever do that and I'm glad.
starjake brought up an excellent point: programming limitations. People forget that Pokémon has over 300 different playable characters. Most Final Fantasy games have fewer than ten. Heck, most games of any kind have fewer than ten. They also don't have anywhere near Pokémon's variety of attacks. There's a fairly large amount of "disk space" used up just on the characters, let alone the regions. If Diamond/Pearl has several regions, at least some will be GSC-Kanto-esque. People can bring up the greater power of the DS, but don't forget your own excited chirping about all of the other features being added as well. Those take up space just like the characters, attacks and regions.
Plus, here's something else to think about: visiting all of the regions means all of the 400+ pokémon should be catchable, as opposed to RuSa's shutout of a lot of older species. Common sense dictates that each area would have "version-exclusives"; pokémon only catchable on Diamond as opposed to Pearl, and vice-versa. Several regions means you'd have to trade a few dozen pokémon to finish the Pokédex (FRLG, without any of the 135 RuSa rookies, requires twelve trades just on version-specifics, let alone trade-evolvers and choices like the Fossils.) That'd get dangerously tedious.
Also, people complain about how old the "8 Gyms and Elite 4" is getting. How about "32 Gyms and Elite 16"? You want to talk about getting old? There you go!
In conclusion, stop with the "all of the regions" silliness already. It's not in any way a good idea.

[Red Angel]

I seriously doubt that memory space will be an issue, considering that the games would most likely be fairly simple graphically and the storage size of DS carts is at least a gigabit (1/8 of a gigabyte, I believe, or around 125 MB). That's huge in comparison to GBA carts, and I for one would gladly trade graphics for game length.

[PKMN Master]

I said this at the beginning, guys: A game that visits every region and explores it fully is a ridiculous idea. Someone suggestyed following the anime's route and dumping all but one pokémon when you cross over.../checks/ SWAMPERT1, that was. I'm sorry, but that's just laughable. Nintendo would never ever do that and I'm glad.
starjake brought up an excellent point: programming limitations. People forget that Pokémon has over 300 different playable characters. Most Final Fantasy games have fewer than ten. Heck, most games of any kind have fewer than ten. They also don't have anywhere near Pokémon's variety of attacks. There's a fairly large amount of "disk space" used up just on the characters, let alone the regions. If Diamond/Pearl has several regions, at least some will be GSC-Kanto-esque. People can bring up the greater power of the DS, but don't forget your own excited chirping about all of the other features being added as well. Those take up space just like the characters, attacks and regions.
Plus, here's something else to think about: visiting all of the regions means all of the 400+ pokémon should be catchable, as opposed to RuSa's shutout of a lot of older species. Common sense dictates that each area would have "version-exclusives"; pokémon only catchable on Diamond as opposed to Pearl, and vice-versa. Several regions means you'd have to trade a few dozen pokémon to finish the Pokédex (FRLG, without any of the 135 RuSa rookies, requires twelve trades just on version-specifics, let alone trade-evolvers and choices like the Fossils.) That'd get dangerously tedious.
Also, people complain about how old the "8 Gyms and Elite 4" is getting. How about "32 Gyms and Elite 16"? You want to talk about getting old? There you go!
In conclusion, stop with the "all of the regions" silliness already. It's not in any way a good idea.

It sounds silly, but it's just a suggestion... personally I'd love to see something like that... I mean, I almost *ahem* cry when I heard the Sevii Islands music, you know, the Johto re-mixes... it felt so great to hear some of those songs again in advance versions... it would be great if all the worlds could be seen in the same game... :p

[rinku]

Given the potential size jump of the cart (Ruby & Sapphire are about 16MB each), even with extra overheads due to improved sound & graphics, I'd expect a big world, just because they can do it. These things tend to have thresholds anyway - it does not take double the storage to double the size of a world, since the "building block" data does not need to be repeated. This especially true for areas that don't use a lot of dialogue or unique graphics.

One thing I don't think has been mentioned so far is the fact that the GS comes ready equipped to use standard wireless internet (NOT just the Nintendo house wireless net). If they want to, the GS could allow internet trading, or some form of online world (though I reckon the latter might be just too big a step as yet).

[Aarkan]

I belive it's allready been said but the gba link cable for pokemon battles sends something like 150kb/s so direct online play or anything (ever wonder why it pings over your pokemon right away in colosseum/stadium for battles?) would be pretty much impossible without using a similar system.

[Sceptile_Master]

Given the potential size jump of the cart (Ruby & Sapphire are about 16MB each), even with extra overheads due to improved sound & graphics, I'd expect a big world, just because they can do it.

Yeah DS carts can store up to 1 GB meaning even with the graphics and sound and stuff, they could easily fit all the four regions in it.

[starjake]

If you say so...

I don't know. It's like what someone said earlier: we already have 386 characters, all of whom have their own stats, their own movepools, etc...while most games have fewer than 10. Note that the ones with fewer characters normally have excellent storylines or puzzles or graphics or all three (final fantasy comes to mind)

And I can assure you that Nintendo will add more to the list of characters, not to mention new moves, new items, etc...add in all the regions, along with better graphics, a deeper plotline, time (and I'm probably forgetting a few things), and you have very little room.

Who knows? Maybe a gigabyte can hold that much...the term "gigabyte" means very little to those of us who don't speak fluent technology (such as myself).

This isn't to depress people; like I said, I'm all for having everything in one game. I'm just saying not to get your hopes up too far. Will there be new things? Absolutely, most assuredly, beyond any shadow of a doubt YES. Will it be the perfect game? Perhaps...but I wouldn't take that to the bank.

[Sceptile_Master]

Yeah but if GBA carts could fit a whole world in with just 16MB game space plus all the pokemon, that is only 6.25% of the space of a DS cart. They could fit in all the worlds GBA standard with only using something like only 25% of the chip used up. Then they have the rest of that huge amount of space to add everything else.

[starjake]

Ah.

Now, see, that I can understand.

*wishes somebody had explained this to him earlier*

[rinku]

I belive it's allready been said but the gba link cable for pokemon battles sends something like 150kb/s so direct online play or anything (ever wonder why it pings over your pokemon right away in colosseum/stadium for battles?) would be pretty much impossible without using a similar system.

Just had a look at the transfer rates for IEEE 802.11. The old 802.11b (Wi-Fi) is rated at 11Mbps, which is heaps faster than the link cable (0.150Mbps). The newer 802.11g standard is 54 Mbps, and has been in place since June 2003. For wireless internet, the bottleneck would remain connection type - dial-up accounts may not be able to take advantage of any DS internet networking since the majority of consumers (i.e. those in Japan and the USA) are probably on broadband.

In any case, I'm fairly certain that they could improve the response rate, since very little information is actually being exchanged. I mean, pokémon battles aren't even real time - they are turn based. The games just send over what moves are being used that turn and the results - a few dozen bytes of data each turn at most. I think most of the lag is due to excessive handshaking and validation.

Slow transfer times would not preclude some form of internet trading. Such a feature would certainly help address the issue of being a regional player like myself, or one without a trading network like Razola.

The more I think about this, the more I'm sure they will try to put something in place. There was already a past experiment with internet on the Japanese version of Crystal, and same-room wireless linking is clearly now the pokémon game standard.