What is reall the best Pokemon

[SilverMaster]

I believe that raikou is the best pokemon, because it is fast, powerful and my favourite.I thought though other people would disagree/strongly disagree. They might say Deoxys (i think thats how its spelt) or mew.

[Sceptile_Master]

No way. Batlle wise not preference wise Raikou isn't all the good. Mew is Okay but isn't amazing and everyone loves Dexoys power. But Groudon possibly is the best pokemon if used properly. I'll go into reason later. But Raikou is WAY off.

[Silv]

Well, all Pokemon included, I'd say Kyogre is overall the best. You have over 400 max Sp. Attk, 350 max Speed, with not only a STAB on water attacks, but rain to further support it, and make its Thunder 100% accurate. Just stick Ice Beam on it, and Ancient Power for Shedinja...and it's basically set.

Of course, there are always ways to counter every Pokemon. My Blaziken can beat any Kyogre with his Attack maxed out and his Endure/Salacc/Reversal strategy.

But no Pokemon is invincible, and Kyogre is best set.

In terms of non-legendaries, I'd have to go with either Slaking, Kingdra, or a Dragon Dancing Salamence.

[Austrian ViceMaster Alex]

The best is quite relative. For me the best Pokémon are Raichu because it's cuddly and looks cute surfing on its tail in Pokémon Colloseum. Then there's always good old Wheezing, I just love the underdogs.

Battlewise I'd say Kingdra is pretty tough and has quite a few resistances. But then I haven't played Ruby/Sapphire much so I don't know which Pokémon are hiding in that game which might be better. I've never met a Dexoys for example.

[SilverMaster]

Groundons ok, but hes just a beefed up version of charizard without wings. He's still easily KO by water pokemon, which take up alot of the pokedex. Mewtwo's probably the best battlewise (if not raikou) as pshchics only weaknesses are bug and dark, which there's not many of and those there are are weak.

Raichus a good one. Does the best pokemon have to be battle hardened, why not cuddly. Anyway, its not raichu as if you were to cuddle it it would paralyse you. Teddiursas more cuddly.

[Sceptile_Master]

SilverMaster do you have any idea how powerful a real Groudon is. It can even be stronger than the best water pokemon, kyogre. Once you have it sword danced and it's speed right up NOTHING can beat it. And I'm talking battlewise not preference wise. Charizard is almost compltely different than Groudon other than the fact they are both often used as physical sweepers. Ghost and steel is also strong against psychic. Mewtwo is kcik ass but isn't as good as it used to be. And Raikou is nowhere near the top battlewise. And that's a solid fact.

[Magmar]

I think SilverMaster's a bit young...
...but that's alright. Welcome!

Best pokemon? Besides I, Magmar, king of the umm... *pokes around a bit* well. I have to give credit to the intense versatility of Lapras, but I don't think it's the best Pokemon. I can't really say, but I do think Groudon is intense.

[SilverMaster]

You've made your point about groundon. Although its stats are exceptionally high and it has powerful moves (what moves does a 'fully trained powerful groundon'have by the way). a clever person would be able to exploit its weaknesses and beat it.Also, Deoxy has higher stats than groundon.

[Sceptile_Master]

Only a fire red deoxys does. But anyhoo a salac berry on a groudon perhaps. But after you have sword dance down on it nothing can withstand it. Yeah it has it's weaknesses and if used inproperly isn't all that much cop. But as a whole it is definetely one of the best pokemon. I agree that deoxys is also one of the best though. Kyogre is more easily set up though.

[AntiAsh Superstar]

Anyway, its not raichu as if you were to cuddle it it would paralyse you.

Depends on whether it wanted to be cuddled or not, shurely?

Aaanyways, I'm not really into the battling thing so much so I couldn't really say much about that but my preference swings towards Umbreon - it's cool-looking, back in GSC it was built to annoy the hell out of everyone and besides, in my AC stories mine just keeps taking over so I'm kinda biased. ^_^ As Alex says, tho 'best' is pretty subjective.

[SilverMaster]

I kinda expected this.whether the best pokemon is a battler or not. The best battle pokemon is going to be a legendary, a pokemon in everyones game, yet it still may not be the best. Umbreon does look good thought, but i also think jolteon, houndoom, arcanine, metacgross and a whole load of others look good too. I have no idea who would be the best combined though (battle and look)

[Silv]

Charizard is almost compltely different than Groudon other than the fact they are both often used as physical sweepers.

Charizard makes a horrible physical sweeper. A max attack of 293, minus whatever IV you get, isn't going to fare well against anything. Especially when the only STAB you have is on a type with attacks that can't get any more powerful than 70. Not to mention his defensive stats aren't all that great.

He'd have a better shot on an Aggron with his Flamethrower than he would with a 4x powerful Earthquake.

But back on topic, Groudon really isn't as useful as say, Kyogre. Sure, once set up, he'd be deadly. I have certain ideas coming to mind already:

Groudon@Salaac Berry
Naughty Nature
EVs: 252 Attk, 252 Speed
-Earthquake
-Swords Dance
-Endure
Rock Slide

Because, you see, the only real way to take that thing down is to first Rain Dance, THEN hit him with a water attack. My original strategy against the thing was to send out my Jolteon, use Rain Dance, take a OHKO Earthquake, sent out Swampert, who can take the attack, and then Surf. My Swampert with a Special Attack of 224 could OHKO it in the rain. Because take in mind, Swampert has the STAB, Groudon has a weakness, below average Sp. Def. and the rain works against him as well. Changing the Sunlight to Rain completely turns against him. A Surf from that same Swampert in the Sunlight wouldn't have even taken HALF his HP.

Another easy way I've beaten him was good ol' Kingdra. Rain Dance, speed boost, Hydro Pump. Nuff' said. But how could a Groudon overcome this? His Earthquake alone isn't enough to OHKO someone with the balanced stats of Kingdra.

That's where the above moveset comes in. The only way to OHKO a Groudon would be with a high Sp. Attk Solarbeam, or a water attack with Rain summoned at first. However, the only Grass Pokemon with powerful enough Special Attack and Speed to outdo him(avoiding a OHKO) is Sceptile. However, most Sceptile have Leaf Blade over Solarbeam, which just wouldn't cut it. Groudon could EQ once, Endure, get a speed boost, and EQ again, thus killing it. Even with Sceptile's resistance, it's weak defense next to that extremely high attack plus STAB gets a Two-hit KO from Groudon.

So now for the REAL problem...Water Pokemon. They all need to first Rain Dance to make their water attacks able to OHKO. This gives Groudon a perfect opportunity to Swords Dance. Now when it comes to Pokemon who get a Speed Boost from Rain, like Kingdra, that's where Endure comes in. Groudon Endure's the hit, gets HIS Speed Boost, and then it's game over.

All of his weaknesses are covered. With only EQ and Rock Slide, he can pretty much handle just about any Pokemon but a Countering Skarmory. But while Skarm is using Counter, Groudon could simply SD. And even if Skarmory is attacking with moves like Drill Peck, Groudon't defense would allow him to STILL Swords Dance a few times to drop in the kill, and have him set up for disaster.

That just about covers Groudon't flaws, and still makes him all-around deadly.

[Sceptile_Master]

The thing is though you wouldn't earthquake the jolteon right away. Youd use swords dance. And not only is the jolteon not an immediate threat but if the opponent wanted to switch it then that would take another turn for our precious groudon to either chrge up or attack. Cause after one sword dance your attack already almost 800. Which I don't need to say is very high. Also naughty nature. Nooo why lower any of his defenses. Modest would be good as the gorudon doesn't have any special attacks. Although jolly is also something to consider as it's speed helps. Since swords dance is so powerful I'd go with the extra speed. Plus a kindra would go down OHKO if the groudon has at least one swords on it. Plus remember swamperts low special atk too.

[SR-71 EKFTS]

It all depeds on you're strategy. I like Smearlge with the following set

Mean Look
Mind Reader
Sheer Cold
Horn Drill

[mr_pikachu]

In RSE, though, you have to be wary of relying too heavily on OHKO moves. You get that Smeargle as your last Pokemon up against something with the Sturdy ability, and you may as well just give up. (Which, incidentally, is why Sturdy can be very useful - it's an easy and perfect defense against a OHKO strategy. Not to mention that some Pokemon with Sturdy are quite powerful anyway. Skarmory, Aggron... even Forretress can be fun.)

[Yero Thropp]

Jynx rocks my world. :biggrin:

Jynx w/ Quick Claw, or maxed speed iv and focus band
Lovely Kiss
Calm Mind
Ice Beam
Psychic

Of course, this combination alone won't work... I usually send Celebi out first for Light Screen then Calm Mind (more than once, depending what the opponent has out,) then Baton Pass to Vaporeon for Acid Armor, and finally Substitute and Baton Pass to Jynx. Jynx is a wonderful sweeper. If I find a pogey I can't OHKO, I (hopefully) put it to sleep, switch to Vaporeon for wish, then back to Celebi (hp gain from wish, now the combo starts over again.) This time, after baton passing to Vaporeon, I will Baton Pass to another pogey who has enough attack power to OHKO whatever Jynx cannot (like Salamandrence's Crunch against Psychic types.)

I don't believe there is a "best" pogey out there... any pogey can sweep with the right set up. I've never fought a Groudon I couldn't beat, and the only water pogey on my team is Lanturn (which I would NEVER send out against Groudon. Wheezing's Haze hurts Groudon a bit, add a Toxic then (if Groudon isn't doing too much damage) Substitute and finally Psychic to death.

However, I have to admit that I've been able to sweep half of my opponents with Jynx alone :biggrin:. I know, one Earthquake to the face and Jynx is toast; that's saying you're faster than Jynx, or it isn't being protected by a Substitute, or you're not asleep. Groudon opener? Celebi Reflects, then Baton Passes to Wheezing (who has high defense and special defense iv's and quick claw.) It's usually only a matter of time then.

[Geofree]

How many threads really needs to be made in order for this question to be answered?
Something more original please...

[Lady Vulpix]

This isn't the same question as "what's your favorite pokemon". You can have a (set of) favorite(s) and think that a different pokemon works best in the games.

[SilverMaster]

ladyvulpix's right.
A favorite is one you would prefer to use,it doesn't have to be strong or powerful, it could just be pretty,a nice colour,or have good movesets.

A best is one that is best at something, noramlly battling, but also movesets, height, weight.

correct if incorrect, but the tallest pokemon is steelix (also i think it has the most defense), and i haven't looked up the heaveist, but i'd guess it's snorlax.

[mr_pikachu]

and i haven't looked up the heaveist, but i'd guess it's snorlax.

That used to be the case. Snorlax weighs in at an impressive 1,014 pounds. But in RSE we were introduced to the utterly massive Groudon, which has more than double the mass of the prior king of the weight class: it is an extraordinary 2,095 pounds.

Dunno what it would be in kilograms. Anyone have the stats from a country outside the United States?


EDIT: Oh, and the best Defense award goes to Shuckle. Along with best Special Defense. But it has ridiculously awful stats in the other categories.

[Sceptile_Master]

Heaviest is groudon, tallest is wailordand most defense is shuckle.

Also sword dance + rock slide = ohko weezing.

[SilverMaster]

helping with the topic, what pokemon has the most attack and special attack

or most HP (i think this is blissey, i don't know about the advanced generation pokemon though)

[Sceptile_Master]

Yeah blissey has most health, Fire red Deoxys has the most special attack and attack I think. Emerald Deoxys has the most speed out of any pokemon. Most special defense is also shuckle (and as mentioned before also most defense).

[Lady Vulpix]

Isn't Wailord the longest one? Even longer than Steelix, as far as I know.

And is Natu still the smallest?

[Sceptile_Master]

Did I forget to say wailord?

[SilverMaster]

it's funny that if you were just looking at that, you'd feel shuckle is the best pokemon as it is the only one in two 'best' groups.

Anyway, i figured that a pokemon with an accuracy move (mind reader, lock on) and then a 1HKO, could probably beat groundon (this probably only works when the 1hko pokemon goes first, which it probably will, as i'm guessing groundons speed isn't great, but i haven't checked). The trainer of groundon will ofcourse not know its opponents moves or intentions, and will see it as not an immediate threat, and so use sword dance as its first move.Because the 1HKO pokemon goes first, it would use lock on/mind reader before the swords dance. Now the owner of groundon will see the opponent has a good move coming, but can't reallly do anything about it.Bye groundon.

Any pokemon that could do this could be considered as the best, but i don't really know which ones. (poliwrath could do this in s/g/c, but it's now changed)

[mr_pikachu]

As I've said many times before, this isn't necessarily true. Let's assume the trainer leads with Groudon (which would be a very, very bad strategy, quite frankly). After seeing Mind Reader/Lock On, the trainer says to himself, "This guy's either got a really powerful attack or a OHKO move coming up. Do I want to let Groudon get KO'd this easily?" The trainer thus switches to another Pokemon, such as an Aggron with Sturdy.

OHKO move is used. Aggron laughs.

This is why OHKO moves are no longer as powerful as they were before. Even with Sheer Cold, which no Pokemon is immune to by type (note that Ghost types are immune to Horn Drill and Flyers can't be touched by Fissure), it's not foolproof. Forget that the Pokemon using the strategy is a sitting duck for two turns, even. With the ability of Sturdy on formidable Pokemon like Aggron, Skarmory, and even Shuckle, you simply can't rely heavily on OHKOs.

[Sceptile_Master]

What mr pikachu said. Plus as I said Fire Red Deoxys is also in 2 categories. I also wouldn't see groudon as much of an opener as mr pikachu also said.

[MeLoVeGhOsTs]

Well for RBY AmnesiaMewtwo was the shizzles. Almost nothing could beat, with Dark not being born yet and the only bug move being Leech Life. Explosion was the solution, but you had to play it carefully.

In GSC I'd say EQ_Shadowball_Sacredfire_Recover@Lefties Ho-oh did the job quit good, although FAR from perfect and the 'best', it could handle himself quit well with Shadowball for other Psychic Legendaries. Meh.

In RSE the above Groundon set is what I used and it worked miracles. LG Deoxys is ALMOST unbeatable.

[firepokemon]

Butterfree is the best pokemon. ITs so pretty and flies.

[Lady Vulpix]

Butterfree is the best pokemon. ITs so pretty and flies.

That wasn't the point of this topic, and I think you knew it.

[SilverMaster]

In SGC, Ho-oh has 2 many type weaknesses. Mewtwo is probably still the best in SGC, as dark is still very rare.With these moves (Blizzard,Fire blast, Recover, Psychic) it could beat anyone (although i prefer raikou,mewtwo is still probably better)

And butterfry is much more of a favorite than best. It's not very good

[Lady Vulpix]

Well, I did beat Red's Pikachu with a level 63 Butterfree, but I realize I was lucky. Butterfree doesn't have good stats, though it does have some nice moves. It's a very good annoyer. And good for catching pokemon too.

[Magmar]

Butterfree is the best pokemon. ITs so pretty and flies.

Did you ever notice in the anime, it sounds like it's saying "eeeeat meeeeee"? Hah.

Yes, Butterfree is a good annoyer. If it had a high special attack or physical attack and a decent bug move, it would be a VERY good pokemon with the attacks it already has. Bust out some stun spore... sleep powder... supersonic... and *if* it hits, that's really quite annoying.

[Gnight]

I'm not scared of a freakin groudon. My rash Celebi has been EV trained to have the highest special attack her IVs will alow. She also knows solarbeam. Very nasty to be at the buisness end of it. Why would she know solarbeam in the first place? Castform, 'nuff said.

[SilverMaster]

Statswise, a groundon is stronger than a celebi

What moves does it have, then we'll see which is better

Also, did you cheat to get celebi, or did you get it off of colleseum

[MeLoVeGhOsTs]

In SGC, Ho-oh has 2 many type weaknesses. Mewtwo is probably still the best in SGC, as dark is still very rare.With these moves (Blizzard,Fire blast, Recover, Psychic) it could beat anyone (although i prefer raikou,mewtwo is still probably better)

No no no. Mewtwo isn't the best in GSC and Tyranitar or Umbreon could easily sweep it. Then on another matter I'd prefer Flamethrower and Icebeam > Blizzard and Fireblast, but ofcourse you'll probably bash me for this and think I'm retarted, but think about it. They are the superior moves.

Then, nextly you can't just say which pokemon is better by just showing off its moves. You'll have to use it in a 6-6 team match. Because ofcourse a Groudon with Fireblast can kill Celebi, but Celebi can come in on Groudon with a Drought set up and just use Solarbeam and score a OHKO.

[mr_pikachu]

Um, I hate to say it, but you can't get Celebi from Colosseum or XD. If you've somehow captured Celebi in either of those games, you've found one heck of a big secret, because nobody else knows about it.

As for Celebi, its time-travelling powers are cool in Pokemon 4Ever, but it's not exactly tremendously useful in the games. Also, even if your Celebi could OHKO a Groudon, you can't assume that you'll be able to get that matchup. Any smart trainer who uses a Groudon (which is an oxymoron of sorts more often than not, if you get my drift) will not start with the Groudon. They'll leave it in reserve, wait for an opportune time, and suddenly toss it in to wipe out whatever it can. Even if you were able to get Celebi in the game against Groudon, you have to remember that you could easily be playing catch-up depending on how much damage the Groudon caused to your Pokemon and/or your strategy. Not to mention that you might have to use Celebi earlier in the match anyway, depending on how long the battle goes before Groudon appears and what Pokemon your opponent uses against you (thus forcing you to counter as well as you can, which might have to include using Celebi).

[SoulflameNinetales]

Well, i prefer pokemon that are versatile. I'm not fond of massive sweepers. I like to go for reliability and versatility when making a decision on what pokemon is truly the best. A team that can adapt itself to any condition is far stronger than a team of sweepers. Though i must admit having as least one sweeper is vital for any well balanced team. Anyway, a well trained Jumpluff with Solarbeam could dish out massive damage to Groudon. In all tactics there are flaws. I actually think that the eevee evolutions are the the true best pokemon ever. Think about it. They are strong, versatile with okay abilities and are cool looking and they are also hugable. Everything in one package. They can fulfil almost every role in a team and are capable of very powerful stats if very well trained.

Just my two scents

*Is knocked to the ground by a tribe of overjoyeed eevees and thier evos*

[Sceptile_Master]

Yes umbreon and jolteon are particullarlly good pokemon. Though not the best. Jumpluff though is not getting near groudon anytime soon. And yes celebi is also a candidate for one of the best pokemon but groudon just seems to be useful for situations. I have to say I don't use groudon or celebi that much as I prefer choices that show more innovation in their training but they are both very good pokemon.

Also in GSC mewtwo could get quite the beating from a blissey. And on the subject of ho-ohs, let's just say my mates one got owned by my raichu (both level 100). I wasn't really surprised either. In the battle against my uber obsessed friend. I lost 2 of my pokemon while he lost all 6. Glorious days for beating such a gloat (cause of his legendaries). Although now I've taught him proper pokemon training he's fairly deadly.