Pokemon sizes and general speculation (Split from: What is reall the best Pokemon)

[SeleucusII]

I thought wailord was the heaviest and diglett was the smallest??

[Sceptile_Master]

Wailord is alot lighter than its size lets on.

[Lady Vulpix]

Diglett isn't smaller than Natu. I think they're both the same size. In average, I assume. It would be hard to believe that all the pokemon of a certain species have exactly the same size.

[mr_pikachu]

Yeah, especially considering that some games have mini-competition sort of things to catch Pokemon of the same species that have bigger sizes. (Like the Magikarp man in GSC, for instance.) I'm pretty sure we can safely assume that the Pokedex entries are meant to be an average. I mean, heck, we've seen baby Mudkip on that anime that were way smaller than their parents, so you're definitely right; it's not like they're all identical.

[SilverMaster]

I've never worked out the majikarp competition, or how to catch the biggest one. How do you know when one is big or small.

I get really annoyed at the competition though as you fill up your box with majikarps, which is probably the best pokemon at being the worst.

I've also found problems with diglett/Dugtrio.how come dugtrio isn't the same size as diglett if it's supposed to be 3 digletts together, and, when you look in a picture of dugtrio, they're all different sizes.And: does anyone know what the bottom of a diglett looks like.

[Lady Vulpix]

The question about the bottom of a Diglett was asked many times. I think the answer is 'no'. Nobody knows what the lower part of a Diglett looks like, except maybe their creator. I doubt a Diglett has ever been known to leave the ground unless it was inside a pokeball, and when released they sink underground immediately. I wonder what would happen if someone used Seismic Toss on one. The Diglett would have to be lifted, right?
They do have claws, though, or at least something they can dig and slash with.

[Magmar]

Think of it in a real life scenario. Picture one kitten.

At the age of 14 months, the kitten will not grow any taller. It is a cat.

Such is the way with Diglett, only a little different. Digletts are babies, but the Dugtrios are the adults. An adult Diglett is the size of 1/3 a Dugtrio.

Obviously not all Pokemon of the same species are the same size. I feel bad for the mother who lays that egg if they are! All animals grow at different rates, like Pokemon. Some change a lot as they mature, others don't. For example, the difference between Growlithe and Arcanine as akin to a puppy and a dog. Obviously not too much difference, but obviously a lot of physical development has occurred.

On the other hand, transition from, say, Psyduck to Golduck. There is a lot of difference between the two, and it has been speculated that Kabutops gradually evolved into Golducks. However, this is how I see it. Tadpoles and frogs are two completely different looking animals, right? That's what it's like.

For concrete evidence, check your Pokedex entry on Dratini. It says "They've been known to be so and so long." That length is not the given length in your Pokedex. This means that Pokemon do come in all shapes and sizes.

I'd like to think of Level 16-30 as being rather akin to Pokemon puberty. Any Pokemon after Level 30 is usually fully evolved into adult form. A few others take a couple of extra levels (first person who refers to Dragonair will be shot) but I don't think any non-legendary Pokemon require levels beyond 40 to be fully adult.

Finally, some Pokemon don't evolve, but obviously grow. Farfetch'd is my favorite example. How many baby ducks do you see that really do'nt look like ducks at all? Not many. Same with Snorlax--bears are bears, no matter the size.

[Sceptile_Master]

Snorlax is a bear? But anyhoo considering legendaries are all thousands of years old I'd assume that they are all fully grown anyways.

[Lady Vulpix]

I agree with the statements about different pokemon having different sizes, as well as variations in their colors and other things, but I wouldn't associate levels and evolution with age. Levels come with training, and evolution may come in several ways, but time isn't one of them. It may take two pokemon of the same species very different lengths of time to reach the same level, and some pokemon may have babies and grow old without ever reaching their final evolution. I haven't watch the anime in the last couple of years, but I remember a Pikachu named Pookah who was over 40 years old; I doubt anyone would say he was not an adult just because he wasn't a Raichu, and I don't think he's likely to ever evolve.

[Magmar]

You know, taht's true. Remember that Paras episode, very very early on in the TV show? They had to get Paras experience points so it could evolve. However, this is how I see it... Pokemon video games, if you really think about them, aren't time-accurate, really. Say you find a wild umm... Doduo. And you want to fight it with your Lickitung. It's not going to be a 5 second long battle and then it's over. Doduo is faster, might use Tri Attack. Licky goes flying, slowly gets up, walks over to it and uses Stomp. Then round 2 happens. It takes a while to actually execute those moves.. Pokemon are a lot older than we really give them credit for.

[Chris 2.1]

Rhyhorn evolves at Lv 42 But you're right generally, I guess they wanted some exceptions to the rule.

[Magmar]

lol, I was aware that some Pokemon, like Dragonair, Kabuto, Omanyte, etc. take forever to evolve. I like to stick to RBY examples just becuase I know so much more about them.

[AntiAsh Superstar]

but I wouldn't associate levels and evolution with age. Levels come with training, and evolution may come in several ways, but time isn't one of them.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with that... I mean sure, those evolving with stones and stuff actually have a choice but I'd guess it gets harder and harder to fight evolution as the pokémon gets older if its a natural (level-based) evolution and after a certain age the pokémon just gives in. (I mean quite a lot of the evolutions seem to be age based... the Caterpie/Weedle families, for example, or the tadpole-like Poliwag evolving into the frog-like Poliwhirl) Tho in the wild how many would actually fight it? It'd prolly be seen as a status symbol to be a higher evolution.

Snorlax is a bear? But anyhoo considering legendaries are all thousands of years old I'd assume that they are all fully grown anyways.

Yer forgetting Mewtwo. Recent creation in a lab. Hahahah. =P

[Lady Vulpix]

Not to mention there may be other young legendaries. This has been discussed before, but even if they do live thousands of years, eventually some of them have to be born and when they do, they're young.

[mr_pikachu]

This is assuming that legendaries can be born in the biological sense. An alternative idea might be that the legnedaries have existed since the dawn of the earth (or at the very least an extraordinarily long time), and that the legendaries we see today are those same, immortal Pokemon which existed millions of years ago. This makes sense, as even Pokemon archaeologists (which we have seen in the anime a few times) have never found the remains of a dead legendary Pokemon. A related idea could be that legendaries are incarnations of nature itself (like Suicune representing "the North wind", for instance). Unless that aspect of nature itself is somehow destroyed, the incarnation of it remains in its original form. Both of these explanations are supported by the idea that Pokemon cannot be bred in the games, although the Lugia arc of the Master Quest season contradicts them. (Consequently, I tend to think about the Lugia arc as almost non-canon, because they go against a heck of a lot that has been either said or implied about legendaries both in the games and in the anime.)

Obviously, these are nothing more than theories, but they are alternatives to the way we usually think about Pokemon. It's food for thought, at the very least.

[Lady Vulpix]

Sorry, Brian, but what you've just said has reminded me of what many scientists tend to do. They work really hard on a theory for years, and then when evidence comes to prove that the theory was wrong, their first reaction is to consider it an observational error and discard it.

If you're going to go by the anime, you'll have to accept that legendaries (at least Lugia) can breed. Maybe they breed once in a thousand years or so, and not in front of humans, which would also explain why you can't get them to breed in the games. As for the remains of dead legendaries, the fact that no archaeologists have found them doesn't prove that no legendaries have ever died. It only means that no proof has been found of either their mortality or their immortality.

[Chris 2.1]

Just so you know, I haven't browsed the whole topic.

My interpretation of Pokemon size is as follows:

Pokedex entry is a general, fully-grown adult size. Baby Pokemon have been proven in the anime to be smaller than their usual forms (Bulbasaur and Squirtle, for example. This may actually be down to genders, however) and Pikachu, too.

The Pidgey episode in Johto League Champions showed us you can have fat Pidgey. We have also seen "elder" Pokemon (ie: Treecko in AG 4) so it's safe to assume some species do age.

As for legendaries, I think they breed when the species is dying. Ie: Lugia was getting old, so they mae a baby. Almost like "carrying on the legacy" or something. And since they hide, and most people won't believe in legendaries (they are just legends, after all), who would believe you if you aw a baby Lugia?

[Magmar]

Maybe the Legendaries are like the Phoenixes. They die and are reincarnated from their ashes... kind of like Dumbledore's bird in Harry Potter. So there's only one.

And in the anime, they do say things like "it's A Mew" and there are several Celebi in the movie.

[mr_pikachu]

Magmar: Well, one possibility with the Celebi was that it came back from many different times at once to help heal it. As for characters saying "It's a _______," that could just be them believing that there are multiple legendaries of each species. That doesn't necessarily mean they're correct.


Gabi: No... no! Cursed logic! How dare you use that against me! Nooo! My precious belief system! AAGH!

[SilverMaster]

Mewtwo is probably the most recent legendary, born in the first pokemon movie.

Also, if a legendary was like dumbledores pheonix, it would have to grow awfully quick, otherwise another legend would come and pick it off, like in the articuno/zapdos/moltres movie.

[SoulflameNinetales]

The Pidgey episode in Johto League Champions showed us you can have fat Pidgey. We have also seen "elder" Pokemon (ie: Treecko in AG 4) so it's safe to assume some species do age.

If I remember correctly, there is another espisote in which the gang sees an elderly pokemon. Somewhere towards the end of the Orange Islands series, Tracey catches a scyther which is showing signs of its age.

Pretty sure about it. I remember taping that espisote, so i should be able to view it.

[mr_pikachu]

I believe you're referring to "Tracey Gets Bugged". I don't remember the Scyther that Tracey caught being old, but maybe one of the Scyther from the flock was. All I have to go on with that are my vague memories and a TV Tome summary, though, so I can't be sure.

[Lady Vulpix]

Yes, and there was an elderly Noctowl too. I think it's clear that pokemon do age, at least some of them. (Not going back to the subject of legendaries, what would an old Magnemite/Magneton/Unown/Baltoy/Claydol/Porygon/Porygon 2/Beldum/etc. look like?)

[mr_pikachu]

Well, a Magnemite/Magneton/other Steel-type might be rusted, while a Porygon/Porygon2 might have a fuzzy image (since the data for the "virtual Pokemon" could be corrupted over time). Baltoy and Claydol might have dents in their body, like a hunk of clay that weathers over time, I guess. And as for Unown... uh, maybe they turn gray? Or would they even age at all? Since they're from another dimension, time may not have an effect on them.

[Lady Vulpix]

I think that if time didn't affect Unowns they wouldn't move at all, let alone interact with other creatures.

[Magmar]

And Pokemon also die of old age. Lavender Tower, anyone?

I don't buy that Pokemon can't die in battle, though. Please. I used to laugh my ass off when I was like... 12... and had a Level 100 Zapdos... and would pick off some Level 2 Pidgey with Thunderbolt.

[Lady Vulpix]

Maybe your Zapdos didn't want to shoot to kill.

[SilverMaster]

i don't know how a celebi would age. And, why do some pokemon go from baby to adult while others like jynx, electrabuzz, magmar have to evolve

[Lady Vulpix]

What people call "baby pokemon" isn't the same as pokemon of young age. They're early evolution stages that aren't found in the wild in the games and that normally have baby-like appearances. I would assume they don't get to grow much physically until they evolve. Other pokemon simply grow up while not changing their appearance that much.

It's clearer in nature, where some animals grow up without changing that much (like dogs, horses or rheas) while others make significant changes (like swans, kangaroos and especially insects and amphibians).

[Magmar]

Oh, by the way, while we're on the subject of size, how can you tell how big your Magikarp are?

[mr_pikachu]

Well, I believe that in Crystal there was a guy near the Lake of Rage who measured the size of your Magikarp, but I haven't found that info on GameFAQs. I'm pretty sure I remember that, though. RSEFrLg have similar things with Shroomish, Seedot, Heracross, and maybe others. (I can't think of any offhand, but there may be more examples.)

And Gabi, for some reason that post made me think of the ugly duckling. "And then the ugly Dukling evolved into a beautiful Swaan."

Ah, yes. Such classic tales, and they're even better when they're Pokemonized.

[SilverMaster]

There's a magikarp guy in G & S to, and i think one in FrlG. I always try to catch a big magikarp, but i think the size is completley random. The biggest one i found is 6''0

[Magmar]

I know the guy sare there, but is there any way of telling offhand without having to catch a shitload of stupid magikrap and bring them to him?

[Lady Vulpix]

I don't think so... Not unless they make a new version of the Pokedex with a pokemon-meter feature.

[Magmar]

I think in Diamond/Pearl, they should consider something like that. It's quite frustrating having to go on guess work.