What have people got against Ubers

[SilverMaster]

I keep getting people telling me to take any legendarys out of my team. What's everyone got against them, jus because they have higher stats than most other pokemon.

[Lady Vulpix]

Well, which pokemon you want to use is up to you.
Personally, I don't keep legendaries in my team because training other pokemon is a lot more fun. I don't think I could explain this, but there's something about legendaries in general that makes them seem less real than the others. Which aren't real either, of course, but it's a sensation.

[Orion]

I keep getting people telling me to take any legendarys out of my team. What's everyone got against them, jus because they have higher stats than most other pokemon.

You just answered your own question...

Still, the problem is with 00bers, NOT Legendaries as a whole. If Legendaries were wrong, then the likes of Dragonite and Salamence should be claused too. On the other hand, 00bers have Stats way beyond the average Pokémon (Even Legends.), MASSIVE Movepools that allow to cover each and every Weakness they might have, or all Types for that matter. As far as in-game goes, they start at such a high Level they own right away...

Still, you can use whatever you want. But keep in mind that when battling others, you have to abide by a few rules everyone has to agree with, and most people that like fair play will clause 00bers most of the time, unless it's an 00ber fight. In-game, you can use whatever you want (The major Battle facilities will clause 00bers anyway...), but when battling other people, you have to make rules to make it fair game...

[SilverMaster]

When i say Oobers, i generally mean the top 6 ,Ho-oh, Lugia,Mewtwo,Rayquaza,Groundon,Kyorge. The other legendaries and 'strong pokemon' (dragonite ect.) are also often outcasted.

They seem to allow Ubers into trianer tower in Fr,Lg , which is a major battling facility.

[Lady Vulpix]

When I said legendaries I meant what you call 00bers. Pokemon who can't breed and of which you get only one in the games. I did have a Dragonite in more than one of my teams.

[Sceptile_Master]

basically for this reason. Strategy. It takes that word out of the game.

[soggy_cardboard]

Ledendaries are no fun anyway. POWER TO UU!

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

Yeah, better just keep training my Magikarp...

[Magmar]

The only thing remotely close to legendary that I even attempt to raise is Lapras. Legendaries are seriously no fun at all.

[Austrian ViceMaster Alex]

When I was still an avid Pokémon trainer I used to raise all of them, no matter if lengendaries or not. The only Pokémon me and my friends didn't use was Mewtwo but all others were just fine. We didn't use them often as we liked diversity though but fighting against lengdaries is very challenging in my opinion. So, personally I have nothing against using them.

[Gnight]

I don't have a problem with ledgendaries. Hell, a few of my favorates are ledendaries.

[mr_pikachu]

Basically, the problem most people have with "ubers" is that they're too easy to raise. Realistically, it doesn't matter what moves you use or what EVs you emphasize (third generation only). They'll still be extremely powerful. Raising other Pokemon to be exceptional takes a lot more work and planning. You have to carefully choose movesets, decide how to raise them, determine what characteristics to look for (like natures and gender), and then you have to breed the best Pokemon you can get. Finally, you have to actually go out and train your team. With ubers, they'll be powerful no matter how much or how little effort you put into raising them, so long as they're up to the same level as the rest of the competition. (Don't ever even think about taking a group of Level 40 legendaries to an open level tournament. You'll be destroyed.)

However, teams that emphasize legendaries often have problems. For one thing, their trainers often rely too heavily on them simply overpowering opponents just because they are legendary. That is, they don't put the time into planning their methods of raising the Pokemon. Also, legendaries can be very limited in terms of potential. Yes, any legendary is going to be powerful, but very few can really dominate effectively. They can blast away at most Pokemon, but they still often have glaring weaknesses. (There are some exceptions, like certain strategies with Groudon, but I won't get into that here.)

Frankly, I've heard about many "anything goes" tournaments where the only team that wasn't stacked with legendaries ended up winning. It takes time and patience to raise incredible Pokemon if they're not legendaries, but it's often worthwhile. It doesn't much matter how much forethought you put into raising an uber Pokemon, but planning ahead makes all the difference in the world for otherwise "ordinary" Pokemon.

[SilverMaster]

The only reason Oobers are easy to raise is because they start at a high level, generally 70 (for proper Oobers anyway, others are 50). Legendaries do have stratergy, like gorundon and swords dance, and others with recover.

Oobers are as much fun to raise as any of the other pokemon, you can just push their limits a bit more while training. 1/2 of my team is legendaries in silver, and battling them against the pokemon on stadium is more fun than battling others, because it's still difficult, but they win. (especially against my rivals legends, FUN).

[Sceptile_Master]

Err no offense but mabye you should read up on this. Some of what your saying is true when applied to gold, silver and crystal, but, in terms strategy and depth, pokemon has moved in leaps and bounds since those days. Now absolutley zilch (yes 0%, absolutely none of it) of that applies to pokemon now. Now with EVs, IVs and stuff like that as well as using abilities (and natures, the list could go on) and stuff all together has put pokemon on a whole new level of challenge and depth.

And about the strategies you mentioned. They aren't strategies they are just powerful moves. It doesn't make it strategy.

And @ mr pikachu: and then the uber users think they are good trainer when they win against people *rolls eyes*.

[SilverMaster]

I have a team without Oobers aswell, so i can fight without them.It doesn't stop them being fun.

The legends are these levels, in advanced generation, (GSC they are mainly 40 and 70), so some of it still applies.

0obers do have 1 stratergy, to go in and kill any opposing pokemon.(i don't include myself in this) Alot of people, mainly average trainers, use Oobers because they can't be bothered about stratergies. I haven't looked at stratergies much because of the way i'm playing the game (see my second post in how to catch legendaries).

[Sceptile_Master]

Levels don't really matter as leveling the pokemon isn't the hard bit. And strategy wise you need to know the game mechanics (the way the game works) first to properly know about strategies). And going and killing everyone isn't a strategy. Plus there teams aren't always really hard to beat as hyper beam = fail. Read up on some of the game mechanics and you'll start understanding about other pokemon. That's what all my uber obseesed friends did (when I taught them about stuff lol) and now they know what I mean.

[MeLoVeGhOsTs]

First off all 00bers aren't the same pokemon as Legendaries. You can describe every non-trio legendary an 00ber. This includes Rayquaza, Mewtwo, Mew, Deoxys, Celebi, etc...

Secondly as someone said before, you answered your own question. 00bers have an enormous movepool and have much higher stats. It's no fun to battle those pokemon with your own regular party. But ofcourse 00ber team vs. 00ber team battles are fun, it's just like two UU teams fighting.

Thirdly what you call the '00ber- strategy' of coming in and cleaning out teams, is not true. Celebi for example mostly uses Baton-Pass, Leech Seed or Healbell.

mainly average trainers, use Oobers because they can't be bothered about stratergies.

If you can't be bothered at strategies, you fail at pokemon. 'Nuff said.

[Jeff]

Another thing is that if everyone used ubers, then everyone would likely be using the same pokemon. Banning ubers, helps add variety and fun to pokemon battling. Of course, now that we are having an increasing number of ubers, uber only battles can be fun as well, it's like having a seperate weight class for them.

[SoulflameNinetales]

True, not all legendaries are uber. I personally like the legendary "dogs" for G/S/C for the simple fact they are not too powerful in stats, like most other legendaries. Anyway, it's easily possible to make powerful teams with just non-legendaries. The most powerful pookemon i've ever trained was a Rhydon...and if it struck first, its power could easily knock out most pokemon or severly injure them. Mewtwo, Ho-oh, Lugis and thier kin are just so overused and overrated it is not funny. i've beaten a team of legendaries, only losing 1 pokemon. Hell, i've beaten 4 mewtwos in a battle, using a paralysed espeon with bite. That shows how poor some people train up legendaries and how bad cloning can be.

[Lady Vulpix]

Funny, since Mewtwo is supposed to be a clone to begin with.

[Gnight]

i've beaten a team of legendaries, only losing 1 pokemon. Hell, i've beaten 4 mewtwos in a battle, using a paralysed espeon with bite. That shows how poor some people train up legendaries and how bad cloning can be.

Good lord. Mewtwo is shuned so badly for being so powerful and owning most everybody(and they're right to do so) and sombody loses with 4 mewtwo clones?? He must be the worst trainer in the world! I've heard of n00b trainers with a team of 6 ledendaries with hyper beam, but this one takes the cake!

[Sceptile_Master]

Yeah n00bs over use of hyper beam makes them sooooo easy to beat. Seriously. Why do they all use it so much.

@Gabi: I think they were refering to the glitch on pokemon gold, silver and crystal where you could duplicate your pokemon.

[Lady Vulpix]

@Gabi: I think they were refering to the glitch on pokemon gold, silver and crystal where you could duplicate your pokemon.

I know, I just wanted to point out the irony in cloning Mewtwo.

[mr_pikachu]

This is an example of a great quote from Multiplicity in action. A copy of a copy just isn't quite as good as the original.

But seriously, that's pretty pathetic, especially since those Mewtwos must have been getting the first strike every time (barring a Quick Claw on the Espeon, of course).

And that's the whole problem with legendaries. People who use them tend to rely on their "power" so much that they fail to make any decent strategies for their use.

[AntiAsh Superstar]

I've no problems with people using 00bers actually. Sure if raised well and given decent movesets they can be scary but... meh, the one or two times you actually manage to take them down in spite of all that makes it all worthwhile no? (whoa I'm talking like my AC Raticate here)

But as has been mentioned, it's the whole 'variety' thing that makes people ban legendaries. You'll have a more varied, interesting battle if people don't turn up with the same old team with the same old moves, and with so many pokémon nowadays you can make excellent teams very easily(-ish) with non-legendaries.

Overall it's prolly just the overuse factor that does it, people prolly go 'omg *another* <insert name here>???'. It gets very boring if you just face the same things all the time so just bar the ones that everybody *wants* to use. ^_^

[Gnight]

Banning ledgendaries would be just plain wrong. Even high level in-game CPU trainers posess ledgendary pokemon, especially in XD. Someone sends out a Regirock or a Raikou or something and it kinda makes it more instresting....

[mr_pikachu]

Well, that's true in Colosseum and XD, but I don't think you ever face a trainer with a legendary Pokemon in any of the other games, unless you count the TCG video games. This can be explained by their methods of "creating" Shadow Pokemon. However you interpret that, they clearly have a great deal of power and influence at their disposal. Either way, though, they certainly don't have an entire team packed with legendaries. That's what usually get people upset. If someone used one or two legendaries which worked with their other Pokemon to create a solid team strategy, I don't think too many people would have a problem with it. It's when trainers toss out six straight ubers that everyone gets frustrated.

[Gnight]

Well, that's true in Colosseum and XD, but I don't think you ever face a trainer with a legendary Pokemon in any of the other games, unless you count the TCG video games. This can be explained by their methods of "creating" Shadow Pokemon. However you interpret that, they clearly have a great deal of power and influence at their disposal. Either way, though, they certainly don't have an entire team packed with legendaries. That's what usually get people upset. If someone used one or two legendaries which worked with their other Pokemon to create a solid team strategy, I don't think too many people would have a problem with it. It's when trainers toss out six straight ubers that everyone gets frustrated.

There are a few tough trainers in the Battle Tower that posess a ledendary pokemon. Speaking of which, if some asshat comes at you with 6 ledendaries, something is wrong.

[mr_pikachu]

What's worse is when they try use six straight Level 100 Mewtwos. When I was first getting into Pokemon, I wanted to build that team. I was training up #4 when Gold and Silver came out. And then I saw the new Dark type and cried.

But it's pretty obvious that someone who wants to do something like that doesn't have a clue about strategies anyway. Even if I had built the team and somehow gotten it into an RBY tournament, I likely would have ended up getting schooled by superior teams. I recognize that now, but in those days, I thought that Mewtwo was essentially invincible. *laughs ashamedly*

And I'd forgotten about Battle Tower. That's a good point, although I honestly don't consider side challenges like that part of the normal gameplay in Pokemon.

[Lady Vulpix]

Ah, all that talk of old times... it reminded me of when I was playing Red and had beaten the Elite 4 with Charizard, a Vaporeon, a Pidgeot and 3 less important pokemon (those 3 did most of the job) and then someone came and said that if I wanted a team that was capable of winning a battle against another player it would have to be all legendaries. I had trained a Moltres for a few days (only legendary I've ever trained) and battling with it wasn't really fun, so the idea of training a whole team of legendaries made no sense to me. Especially since I didn't want to lose my big 3 (I ended up losing them eventually, but not on purpose; if I ever get to play Fr/Lg I'll try to get those 3 pokemon again).

Another reason I had not to pay attention to those comments was that they had also recommended choosing any starter but Charmander, and I had gone far having chosen exactly that one. True, the first 2 gym battles were tough, but during the rest of the game I was glad to have my Char by my side.

[Magmar]

I'm personally afraid of fire and hardly ever raise a Fire Pokemon, just based on my principle. I've never started with Charmander.

Mewtwo rocked in Pokemon Colloseum, I must admit. ^_^

[SilverMaster]

I did what I was told and looked stuff up on this website [LV edit: we all know that website, but linking to its front page goes against TPM's rules.] (it's really good). Anyway, i've discovered loads of stuff about EV's and IV's, and natures, and abilities.
(i've just posted some questions in the advanced forum, cause i confused myself when i was looking at this website.I really need help)

I still think legends and Oobers are great though, only when used in moderation, having 1 2 or a maximum of 3 different 0obers in a team of 6. That person who used 6 mewtwos must of really sucked. A bite shouldn't be able to kill a mewtwo in one go, despite weaknesses.

I'v noticed aswell that all Ubers are totally different, which just adds to the variety of pokemon you can choose from.

Also, how did you lose your Charizard, vaporeon and Pidgeot.

[Lady Vulpix]

Sorry for editing your post, but that link was against the
TPM General Rules, particularly the one about linking to other Pokemon main sites.

As for how I lost my pokemon from Red, the battery was ruined.

[SilverMaster]

Do you mean the save battery thing. If it runs out, do you lose ALL the pokemon, or does it just stop saving. I wasn't aware of the rules. Unfortunatley i've put the same website on a post in advanced generation, and on my profile, but i'll take the profile one off now.

[mr_pikachu]

Actually, it's fine to put a link to another Pokemon website in your sig or your profile. However, you're not supposed to make posts with links like those in them. When you post links to material from other Pokemon websites, your links should point directly to the content you want to show people, rather than to the main page of the site.

[Sceptile_Master]

I still think legends and Oobers are great though, only when used in moderation, having 1 2 or a maximum of 3 different 0obers in a team of 6. That person who used 6 mewtwos must of really sucked. A bite shouldn't be able to kill a mewtwo in one go, despite weaknesses.

I usually limit it to 1.

[Lady Vulpix]

I don't know what happens if the save battery runs out. It broke in a way that it would recover save-states prior to the last one (apparently random ones) and wouldn't save new ones.

[SoulflameNinetales]

I got a total of 3 pokemon games with dead internal batteries

My Blue, original yellow version and my crystal version no longer stores save game information...funnt through...crystal was the first to go...then yellow and lastly blue. Blue doesn't work at all...and i lost the save games from yellow and crystal. (sob....my poor fire and water team...)

[mr_pikachu]

Part of the reason that some of the GSC games may be wearing down faster than the RBY games might have to do with the greater toll that's put on the internal battery. In RBY, the only time the clock was used was when the game was on, so unless you literally had the game on all the time, it wouldn't run out that quickly. But in GSC, another internal clock measured the time even when the game was off (for the night and day as well as similar features), so it makes sense that it might run out quicker. The same may be true for RSE, since those games have a real-time clock as well.

This might be something that Nintendo should consider during the production of Diamond and Pearl. I would imagine losing all your data would frustrate a good number of people. Perhaps something like making the real-time clock optional would be a smart idea.

[SoulflameNinetales]

Or making the internal bateeries easier to replace...