What's in a name? (Part II)

[Blademaster]

OK, I made a topic like this once before, asking where certain Pokemon names came from; thanks to Wikipedia and gamefaqs.com, now I know.

But what about the Trainers of those Pokemon? The Gym Leaders and the Elite Four, specifically. Where did those names come from?

OK, let's start with RBY/FrLg:

Brock, Misty, Lt. Surge, Erika, Koga, Sabrina, Blaine, Giovanni, Lorelei, Bruno, Agatha, and Lance...

OK, Brock is easy - it's 'rock' with a b on the front of it. Misty is even easier - it stems from 'mist,' which is water vapor. Lt. Surge is... well, I really hope that his name doesn't require an explanation. Sabrina stems from the TV series Sabrina, the Teenage Witch; since there's no Magic-type Pokemon, Psychic was the nearest logical choice. Blaine, I suppose is stemmed from 'blaze,' and Bruno likely comes from a combination of 'bruise' and 'sumo.' And Lance... well, Lance trains Dragons; in medieval times, knights used lances to slay dragons...

But what about Erika, Koga, Giovanni, Lorelei, and Agatha? Where did their names come from?

Next up is GSC:

Falkner, Bugsy, Whitney, Morty, Jasmine, Chuck, Pryce, Clair, Will, Koga, Bruno, Karen, and Lance...

Bugsy is too easy to bother explaining, and Whitney, I believe, is stemmed from 'white,' the color most often associated both with her Pokemon type (Normal) and her Badge (Plain). Morty likely stems from 'mortician' or 'mortal,' reflecting his Ghost Pokemon. Chuck probably means just that - to 'chuck,' or throw, something Fighting Pokemon do quite well (Seismic Toss, Vital Throw, etc.), and Pryce rhymes with 'ice.' Will, a Psychic Trainer, is from 'willpower,' and Lance, Bruno, and Koga have already been (or not been) covered.

So, that leaves Falkner, Jasmine, Clair, and Karen... Any ideas?

Lastly, we come to RSE:

Roxanne, Brawly, Wattson, Flannery, Norman, Winona, Tate and Liza, Wallace, Sydney, Phoebe, Glacia, Drake, and Steven...

Wow... Nintendo really ran out of ideas this time, didn't they?

OK, Roxanne is obvious - ROCKS Anne, get it? Brawly comes from 'brawl,' which means to fight, and Wattson (Finally, something a little clever!) stems from 'watt,' a measure of electricity. Flannery is probably a mix of 'flame' and 'chimney,' referring to her prized Fire Pokemon, Torkoal, and Norman is one letter away from 'normal,' his own Pokemon type. Winona likely stems from 'wind,' and Wallace sounds like it might possible come from 'waterfall.' Phoebe, like Sabrina, is a witch's name (Macbeth in this case - thank you, Brian.), though Ghost may or may not be a better 'witch-type' than Psychic (Except maybe that new Misdreavus evo; I dunno.). Glacia is too obvious to explain, as Drake should be (A 'drake' is a dragon.)

But Tate/Liza, Sydney, and Steven... those I don't know.

So...

Erika
Koga
Giovanni
Lorelei
Agatha
Falkner
Jasmine
Clair
Karen
Janine
Tate & Liza
Sydney
Steven
Juan

...

Any suggestions?

[mr_pikachu]

Well, Steven and Steel sort of match...

Lorelei was a maiden (see: siren) who lured seafarers to their deaths...

Falkner's English name apparently means "one who trains falcons."

Jasmine sounds like a mix of "jazz" (either a type of music or a ringing jangle of metal) and "mine," like an ore or gem mine.

Clair could be related to "air," which many dragons use. By flying.

Tate's name could come from Meditate... not sure about Liza. Maybe from "lie"... and, um... er... "zuh"?

Juan (Sootopolis Gym Leader in Emerald and a bit player in R/S) is similar to "one," like "number one" or a reference to him being a solo performer.


...By the way, don't forget Janine, Fuschia City Gym Leader in GSC.

[The Blue Avenger]

I think Liza comes from realize. Koga is a generic-sounding Japanese ninja name. Giovanni is Italian, and while it should be pronounced Joe-vanni, it's pronounced Geo-vanni. The Geo prefix relates to earth.

As for Erika... eh... Eric the Red discovered Greenland, and grass is green...?

[Blademaster]

Jasmine sounds like a mix of "jazz" (either a type of music or a ringing jangle of metal) and "mine," like an ore or gem mine.

Clair could be related to "air," which many dragons use. By flying.

I really hope not - even Nintendo can do better than that!

[The Blue Avenger]

I would bet that Jasmine was chosen just because it has 'mine' in its name; the 'jas' part is probably inconsequential.

Claire comes from Latin 'clarus' - "clear, bright, famous." Famous could describe her, and clear could describe the purity associated with dragons, I guess?

[Magmar]

I would say Giovanni, italiano for "John", was chosen because when most people think of the mob, we think of Italia. At least here in Rhode Island; the town I grew up in was 85% Italian-Americans, which is the most in the country I believe. Or second most. But yeah, we always figured Giovanni was everybody's sinister uncle. There's quite a few Giovannis, you'd be surprised.

[Zak]

Giovanni's gym is Ground type. "Geo" means earth-related.

[darktyranitar]

I think I saw somewhere of a plant with the name of Erika... something. I forgot where I've seen it.

[Starry Might]

Interesting topic!

About Clair...maybe she is so-named because her name has "air" in it, and so does Dragonair?

Speaking of names, has anyone given any thought to what the English names of the Gym Leaders and Elite 4 in "Diamond" and "Pearl" might be? I don't have either game (I'm not an import gamer), but I've seen these guys and gals on the 'Net.

Here are my personal ideas/predictions/thoughts that may or may not prove to be reality (so no quoting me on them if I'm wrong!):

SPOILERS BEGIN
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Gym Leaders:

Hyouta (the Rock-type Gym Leader) = "Cole" (sounds like "coal"; likely to be his English name).

Natane (the Grass-type Gym Leader) = "Sylvia" (means "forest"; this one's very likely to be her English name).

Sumomo (the Fighting-type Gym Leader) = "Titania" (the name contains the word "titan"; a possibility for her English name).

Makishi (the Water-type Gym Leader) = "El Océano" (Spanish for "The Ocean"; he likes Water types and he's dressed like a Lucha Libre wrestler []...okay, this probably won't be his English name, and is more what I think would be a good name for him).

Merissa (the Ghost-type Gym Leader) = "Melissa" (this is pretty much guaranteed to be her English name, right? ).

Tougan (the Steel-type Gym Leader) = "Steely" (as in the band "Steely Dan"; a possibilty for his English name).

Suzuna (the Ice-type Gym Leader) = "Alice" (contains the word "ice"; a possibility for her English name).

Denji (the Electric-type Gym Leader) = "A.C." or "D.C." (as in AC/DC charges; two possibilities for his English name).

Elite Four and Champion:

Ryou (the Bug-type Elite Four member) = "Beedle" (sounds like "beetle"; a possibility for his English name...too bad "Bugsy" is already taken, huh? ).

Kikuno (the Ground-type Elite Four member) = "Eartha" (contains the word "earth"; likely to be her English name).

Ooba (the Fire-type Elite Four member) = "Magnus" (contains "mag", as in "magma"; a possibility for his English name)

Goyou (the Psychic-type Elite Four member) = haven't come up with anything myself (D'OH! ).

Shirona (the Champion) = "Shania" (I just think this is a good name for her; probably won't be her English name; given the way she looks, a Gothic-sounding name would actually suit her better, IMHO).
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SPOILERS END

I'd like to hear your thoughts and ideas!

[Silencer]

How about Bertha for the ground-type E4? If you scrap the b you can for earth by setthing the a in front :p

[Austrian ViceMaster Alex]

I think I saw somewhere of a plant with the name of Erika... something. I forgot where I've seen it.

There's a plant by the name of Erica indeed, it usually grows in Africa and Europe as far as I remember. It's got small purplish petals.

[Metallixs Girl]

[color=mediumpurple]It'd have been cool if Erika's name had been Audrey... "Giant" cookie to whoever gets why...

[frylock]

Little Shop of Horrors?

[Blademaster]

Heh... that'd have been really funny in-game...

AUDREY: "If you want this RAINBOWBADGE, you must do two things. First, you must beat me in a Gym Battle."
RED: "...And? What's the other thing?"
AUDREY: "FEED ME!!!"
RED: O_O;;;;

[Metallixs Girl]

[color=mediumpurple]Bingo! *hands frylock and Blade both giant cookies*

[Magmar]

I think "Go You!" is a fine name for an Elite 4 member. But if they're psychic... why not "Santos" after the obvious... and for Spanish water dude, make it "El Mar" to be a little less obvious

[Starry Might]

*SNICKERS AT BLADEMASTER'S POST*

How about Bertha for the ground-type E4? If you scrap the b you can for earth by setthing the a in front :p

I think "Go You!" is a fine name for an Elite 4 member. But if they're psychic... why not "Santos" after the obvious... and for Spanish water dude, make it "El Mar" to be a little less obvious

Good ideas...but the "Santos" thing isn't as obvious to me, Rude Boy.

I was actually thinking that some magician-sounding name (e.g "Houdini", something like that) would be good for him.

Oh, and I'd like to comment on this topic's first post:

...and Bruno likely comes from a combination of 'bruise' and 'sumo.'...

"Bruno" is an actual name. I think it was chosen because it's a "tough guy" kind of name.

But what about ...Agatha?

The name "Agatha" is typically associated with mysteries (Agatha Christie was a famous British author of them) and witchcraft/witches (it's a name that is typically thought of as being good for a witch). Ironically, it means "good and kind".

So, that leaves...Karen... Any ideas?

Karen's name in Japan is "Karin", which is close enough to a Western name (actually, it IS a Western name - Scandinavian, in fact) that it was only changed minorly into the more well-known spelling.

Flannery is probably a mix of 'flame' and 'chimney,' referring to her prized Fire Pokemon, Torkoal...

"Flannery" is an actual name, too (Flannery O'Connor was a famous American author). I can't remember the meaning (I looked it up a little while back), but I know it's origin is Irish. I think it was chosen because of the "F-l-a" (as in "flame" or "flammable") in it.

But...Sydney...I don't know.

I'm not sure about Sidney, either. I guess we're both stuck on this one! (I'll have to look for some possible reasons why, I guess.)

[Blademaster]

Yeah, I know they're actual names; I was just trying to discern why those particular names were chosen.

[mr_pikachu]

Good ideas...but the "Santos" thing isn't as obvious to me, Rude Boy.

The one meaning I can grasp for "Santos" is the name of an oil company. If it's not that, then I have no idea what Rude Boy meant.

[Starry Might]

Yeah, I know they're actual names; I was just trying to discern why those particular names were chosen.

Yeah, that is true.

The one meaning I can grasp for "Santos" is the name of an oil company. If it's not that, then I have no idea what Rude Boy meant.

Me neither.

Can you elaborate for us, Rude Boy?

[frylock]

Wasn't there some magician guy named Santos? The name "Santos the Mystic" keeps popping up in my head.

[Crystalmaster Mike]

I'm not sure about Sidney, either. I guess we're both stuck on this one! (I'll have to look for some possible reasons why, I guess.)

Hmm... I started thinking about this one and concluded that it probably didn't came from "Sydney" a.k.a. the Australian capital ). Then I thought: "Hey, isn't there a word like 'sidious' or 'ensidious' that means something like 'heinious'?"

Then I realised I was thinking of Lord Sidious from Star Wars! That name in itself comes from 'hidious' and something else, I think.

Okay, maybe it's just me thinking about this too much, but it sounds at least a bit plausible. I mean: "The Dark side of the Force" --> "The Dark Type of Pokémon"? Huh?

[Blademaster]

.........

OK, I'll buy that.

But that still leaves Agatha, Karen, and Janine.

Any ideas?

[The Blue Avenger]

Then I realised I was thinking of Lord Sidious from Star Wars! That name in itself comes from 'hidious' and something else, I think.

It probably just comes from insidious.

[Crystalmaster Mike]

It probably just comes from insidious.

Yeah... Plus, "Sidney" contains "Sid", and when I think of "Sid", I think of the puppet-abusing bully from Toy Story: quite a Dark character.

[Starry Might]

Wasn't there some magician guy named Santos? The name "Santos the Mystic" keeps popping up in my head.

I looked up "santos the mystic" (with and without quotation marks) on Google, but the results weren't very satisfactory, IMHO.

It [Sidney's name] probably just comes from insidious.

Hey, I never thought of that...good call, dude!

But that still leaves Agatha, Karen, and Janine.

Any ideas?

I explained Agatha and Karen's names in this earlier post.

As for Janine...looks like we've got another stumper!

[Blademaster]

...Oh, right. Sorry, Starry.

Still, that doesn't really explain Karen's name... well, maybe the translators were just lazy. Then it makes sense.

[Starry Might]

...Oh, right. Sorry, Starry.

Still, that doesn't really explain Karen's name... well, maybe the translators were just lazy. Then it makes sense.

That's okay.

Oh, and I've actually come up with another theory for Karen's name.

As we all know, Karen believes that only selfish trainers see certain Pokemon as being "strong" and others as being too "weak" to use in battle. She thinks that people should use their favorites no matter what they are.

Maybe her name was chosen because she CAREs (get it?) about all Pokemon, no matter how "strong" or "weak" they are?

[mr_pikachu]

So, you're saying that Karen is a carin' person?

Interesting theory. That's just crazy enough to be right!

[DaBlackBandit]

That's okay.

Oh, and I've actually come up with another theory for Karen's name.

As we all know, Karen believes that only selfish trainers see certain Pokemon as being "strong" and others as being too "weak" to use in battle. She thinks that people should use their favorites no matter what they are.

Maybe her name was chosen because she CAREs (get it?) about all Pokemon, no matter how "strong" or "weak" they are?

But why does she used Dark types? Wouldn't she use Love Pokemon, or pokemon with Attract or Encore (Clapping) or something like that. I don't think it was very Carin' of Karen use Flamethrower on my Meganium, that is actually mean.

I actually have the Japanse version of Crystal, if you could translate for me or if I could find a way to translate I could possibly get there names in Japanese and see if it was translated properly.

[mr_pikachu]

Well, for a (crude) translation, you can try Babelfish.

Only problem may be getting the proper characters to type in, if you don't have the Japanese language set installed on your computer. But how could you possibly not have Japanese? That's just crazy talk!

[Starry Might]

But why does she used Dark types? Wouldn't she use Love Pokemon, or pokemon with Attract or Encore (Clapping) or something like that. I don't think it was very Carin' of Karen use Flamethrower on my Meganium, that is actually mean.

According to my "Pokemon Stadium 2" Player's Guide, her Pokemon (for the most part) have Attract in their movesets. (This is based on memory - the acutal book's upstairs and I'm too lazy to go check it right now. :p)

[mr_pikachu]

According to a GameFAQs guide:

Karen's team:
Vileplume (Attract, Stun Spore, Giga Drain, Sludge Bomb *Ice Berry*)
Victreebel (Attract, Acid, Stun Spore, Razor Leaf *Mint Berry*)
Gengar (Attract, Lick, Psychic, Confuse Ray *PRZCure Berry*)
Magmar (Attract, Thief, Fire Punch, Confuse Ray *no item*)
Umbreon (Attract, Psychic, Pursuit, Confuse Ray *Quick Claw*)
Murkrow (Attract, Fly, Mud-Slap, Faint Attack *Bitter Berry*)

[Phoenixsong]

Aherm... If I may draw attention to something else about Koga, it might also stem from "kogatana", or a knife. Sounds ninja-ish to me.

To elaborate further on Morty's name, that doesn't really need specific examples to be explained. It came from the general prefix "mort", meaning death. And the general English name "Falkner", for those who care, came from the term "falconer", explaining its meaning.

I'm still puzzling a bit over Karen, Clair and Janine... perhaps an explanation exists in their Japanese names. I do have a bit of a guess about Karen, however: add the letter "d" and rearrange the letters and you get "darken". That's a possibility, I suppose. Or there might be some Karen in literature that we're missing, such as with Phoebe's name. The only close one I can think of is Anna Karenina, but... uh... no. That's not it, eheheheh...

Hmm... Janine means "God is forgiving". Wow, THAT helps. Again, the only thing I can think of is changing a few letters and rearranging stuff, in which case it's possible to get something that looks remotely like "ninja". Yeah... hack off the "e" and it could spell ninja. That works.

Oh, and Juan, with its "w"-sound, sounds a bit like "water". (wan... water... see?)

What really bugs me is the fact that Phoebe is dressed like she just got back from Hawaii. What do leis and flowery skirts have to do with Macbeth or dead things?

I'll have to do some thinking on the new leaders/elites, but drawing on my own characters from my fake regions I have some ideas:

Hyouta (Rock leader)- Cole works, or it could be Shale or something.

Natane (Grass leader)- again, Sylvia works, or they could do something less clever and be all like "Flora" or something. Ya.

Sumomo (Fighting leader)- I had a female Fighting-type gym leader... her name was Sam, as in Samurai.

Makishi (Water leader)- Ooh! *pokes Blade* Ooh-ooh! Call him Mako! That would fit perfectly with the Weavile that I'm going to name Underwood, mwahahaha. The Luchador-sounding names are cool, too, though.

Merissa (Ghost leader)- They could also just leave it Merissa, which is an English name in its own right. Hey, at least the Firefox spellchecker isn't telling me it's wrong, heh... anyway, one of my Ghost leaders was named Mari, after the famous ghost Bloody Mary. No, my character was not inspired by the drink, either. The name of the drink came from the same ghost.

Tougan (Steel leader)- Hm. Let me bust out my handy periodic table-majigger from school and find some metals, shall I? Lessee... there's Cobalt, Silver, Rhodes (rhodium), Tim (tin, or perhaps antimony), Cal (calcium), or Nick (nickel), just to name a few. I don't remember all of which ones were metals, or else I'd have more. They could also do Aaron (iron), but as that's close to a Pokémon's name and also the name of another character, they might not... then again, there were two Drakes in the anime, too. Maybe Aaron, then. Even though I think the name Tougan sounds cool on its own.

Suzuna (Ice leader)- I'm okay with Alice, but I also like... uh... never mind. I'll get back to you on that.

Denji (Electric leader)- One of my Electric leaders was named Voltaire. That's the name of a philosopher, but it has the word "volt" in it, so who cares! They could also name him James (after James Watt) or Andre (after André Marie Ampere, who had the amp named after him).

Ryou (Bug elite)- Hercules (as in "Hercules beetle") or perhaps Scorpius (guess). Or, ironically, the name Lionel would work (ant lion)... Lionel being a Champion I created based on... uh... another character with the exact same name as this guy. *pokes Blade again*

Kikuno (Ground elite)- Eartha or Bertha, huh? First of all, I would have thought Eartha was a weird name if I hadn't seen Eartha Kitt on tv earlier today. I'd also like to suggest Sandy. Simplistic, but hey! If they can get away with Bugsy and Lt. Surge, then gosh-darn it...

Ooba (Fire elite)- I know... call him Phoenix! No, not really... but Sol (solar) or Aidan (means "fire") would work.

Goyou (Psychic elite)- Harris (as in "Harry Houdini"... or "Harry Potter", heh.) If we're going the famous-magician route, we could also say David (David Blaine and David Copperfield), or Siegfried or Roy or something. Other possibilities that I don't want them to use because they're so much cooler on my characters are Casey and Edgar (both derived from famous 20th century psychic Edgar Cayce; Edgar could also come from Edgar Allen Poe, but that's more Ghost-ish)

Shirona (Champion)- that sounds like the name Sharon, actually.

Gwar. I am angered by the fact that there is STILL no Dark-type Gym Leader. Sure, there's Karen and Sydney, but every other type has had its own gym. What's wrong with a Dark gym?!

That's all for now, I suppose. I'll think more on Clair, Janine and Karen, and on Suzuna's possible name.

[Starry Might]

Looks like my last post in this topic didn't carry over to the new forum. Oh well.

Anyways...dang, Phoenixsong, that was a long post! But it's a really good one, too: Lots of good name suggestions for the D/P Gym Leaders and Elite 4!

I also agree that it's lame that Dark remains unrepresented in the Gym Leader circuit. 4 years ago, I made up a Dark-type Gym Leader named Daria...just a sec, lemme get the part of backed-up topic I made that included her info...ah, here we go!

Name: Daria
Description: A woman in her early-twenties. She has pitch-black hair, and the hair style is the same as that of "Perfect Dark's" Joanna Dark. She wears a black gown, a black choker necklace with a white pearl, black gloves, and black high-heels.
Pokemon She Uses (In Game Boy Game):
Houndour, Sneasel, Murkrow, Umbreon, and Houndoom.
Prizes for beating her: Shadow Badge and a TM containing a new Dark-type attack. I haven't come up with a new Dark-type attack, so I'll leave that to you! Be realistic, though! (i.e. No "100%-Accurate-One-Hit-K.O.-Move-With-40-PPs. )

Okay, that's enough off-topicness.

[Phoenixsong]

Yarr... I am feared throughout this forum for my "novel-length" posts (they are NOT novel-length, Blademaster!).

Daria sounds cool... shame she ain't real. *can't remember any of her own Dark-type leaders* Oh, wait! There was Morgan... she was pretty cool, but whatever.

Anyway, I thought of a few more names for Suzuna. Lessee... there's Artie (Arctic, I suppose... meh), Ann (Antarctica), Eliza (ice... sorta), Frieda (freeze)... that's all I've got for now.

[The Blue Avenger]

I maintain that the electric gym leader needs to be called Tybolt. Although I do like the sound of Voltaire. I'm just hoping he doesn't get the Brawly treatment and become Zappy O'Bolterson.

[Phoenixsong]

Zappy O'Bolterson?

...That would make me cry.

[mr_pikachu]

I could see a name like Parks. Move the "s" to the beginning, and what do you get? sPark!

...What?

(Actually, Voltaire does sound surprisingly decent. It might even be better than either of the previous two Electric leaders. I like!)

[Blademaster]

Hyouta - Grant
Natane - Laurel
Sumomo - Matilda
Makishi - Dave
Merissa - Anne
Tougan - Miller
Suzuna - Paula
Denji - Buzz
Ryou - Anthony
Kikuno - Mona
Ooba - Allen
Goyou - Marc
Shirona - Shiela

My two cents, anyway.