"It's Dead!" ~The Debate Topic~

[mr_pikachu]

I'm sure most of us (if not all) have heard someone say, at one time or another, that the Pokemon franchise is dead. That's the kind of thing that often inspires a massive debate (see: argument) between whoever hears the comment.

What I want to know is, what evidence do you use in the debate? First of all, do you agree with that initial statement, or do you disagree? Or are you somewhere in between? And second, how do you support your view? What do you use to argue your point of view?

As an example, I remember a topic awhile back in Pokemon Anime where WPM cited a bunch of Nielsen ratings for a given week - on that Saturday, Pokemon dominated all of its competitors, including other shows on the WB. His argument was that if people still watched Pokemon far more than any other show, it couldn't be faltering.

If I were to have such a debate now, I'd probably use GameFAQs (yes, pretty much the only thing I ever cite) as my evidence. If you look on their main pages for each game, this is what you may notice about various systems' top games (based on user activity):


Game Boy

# 01 Pokemon Blue
# 02 Pokemon Yellow
# 03 Pokemon Red
# 04 Zelda: Link's Awakening
# 05 Tamagotchi
# 06 Pokemon Green (never released in the U.S.)


Game Boy Color

# 01 Pokemon Crystal
# 02 Pokemon Gold
# 03 Pokemon Silver
# 04 Zelda: Oracle of Seasons
# 05 Zelda: Oracle of Ages
# 06 Zelda: Link's Awakening DX
# 07 Dragon Warrior III
# 08 Dragon Warrior Monsters
# 09 Pokemon Trading Card Game (not a main game)


Game Boy Advance

# 01 Final Fantasy VI Advance (recent - released two days ago)
# 02 Pokemon Emerald
# 03 Pokemon FireRed
# 04 Final Fantasy V Advance (recent - released a couple of months ago)
# 05 Pokemon LeafGreen
# 06 Pokemon Ruby
# 07 FF Tactics Advance
# 08 Pokemon Dungeon Red (not a main game)
# 09 Zelda: Minish Cap
# 10 Pokemon Sapphire


Nintendo DS

# 01 Final Fantasy III
# 02 Castlevania: PoR
# 03 Yu-Gi-Oh! GX
# 04 Diddy Kong Racing
# 05 Hotel Dusk: Room 215
# 06 Phoenix Wright 2
# 07 Animal Crossing WW
# 08 Pokemon Diamond (only top 10 game not released in U.S.; expected in two months)
# 09 Jump! Ultimate Stars
# 10 New Super Mario Bros. (highly marketed, yet below an unreleased Pokemon game)


(End of some lists omitted in order to conserve space.)


Yeah, that's pretty much what I'd go with. But what would you argue? What's your point of view, and how would you present it? What would you do?

Let us know what you have to say!

[Saffire Persian]

A dying franchise? I don't really think so. Perhaps it isn't as 'booming' as it was in the days of RBY, but it's certainly not - and far from - dead. The pokémon franchise - from some stats I read over in a topic posted by Latios in the video game forum from some reputable news source, still listed Pokémon as like.. the second best-selling video game franchise in the world (might have been third, but meh) by quite a large margin.

I think with Diamond and Pearl, and to some extent the new Wii game, will help bolster the fandom up a bit as well. I think Pokémon still has many old fans who like it, and still gather many, many more. It's one of those franchises (a la Power Rangers) that I don't think will ever quite die.

[Phoenixsong]

My answer? To sum it up in a link, no.

It's not "dead"; the fandom has simply become older, while people's general perception of the game has not. Due to the self-conscious and approval-seeking nature of today's world, most teenagers and adults would not admit to liking a "kiddy game". That doesn't mean they don't like it. Nintendo is doing its best to keep Pokémon up there, but as of now its audience is largely a closet or semi-closet one.

...Besides, all you have to do is take one look at the annoyingly absurd amount of posts on the Serebiiforums. Count that and then tell me Pokémon's dead.

[Ho-oh2001]

I would probably use the same evidence you use, pikachu. It could be argued that the GB boards aren't a great indicator to go by because by this point, the games at the top of the list are going to be the ones that have the most replay value more than anyone else. Although I guess you could also say that maybe that's proof in itself that the franchise isn't dead. Depends on your point of view I guess.

I might also throw Nintendo Power into the mix. Their "Most Wanted" list for DS has Pokémon Diamond and Pearl listed as #2 this month, and Pokémon games take up the #2, 3, and 5 spots on their GBA "Top Seller" list, and #2 and 6 on their DS Top Seller list (those included things like Pokémon Ranger/Mystery Dungeon, but they count as well, ne?)

So it's not as popular as it once was. So what? The franchise is about 10 years old in North America, isn't it? I know I still love the games. I still remember the impossible-to-describe feeling I got the first time I played Pokémon Red, and while I may not have gotten that same rush when I first played Emerald, and I'm not likely to get it when I play D/P, I think that's more due to the fact that I'm older now. And even when the franchise does "die" one day, I'll still be enjoying it. ^_^

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

In fact, I was waiting for a topic like this. I was waiting for a chance to say like this:

I think it's been discussed for years that Pokémon is dead, and it is still going on. I think it started somewhere in the early 2002 or something. Peolple keep saying: "It's dead. Soon there will be nobody playing Pokémon." but they have said it for years now, and that only is supporting the view that Pokémon will never die, actually. In my opinion it's almost the same that's with this forum. We have been 'dying' for like 6 years but we are here even now.

Pokémon TV series is still going on in Japan and new games are made. Just look at Mickey Mouse. He has been there for a hundred years soon, why not Pokémon?

[Charles Legend]

the Pokemon franchise dead now thats a joke if ever I herd one.... from what I can tell Ninetdo now has three main franchises from what I can tell Mario, Legend of Zelda and Pokémon in other words those three are Like Nintendo's Tryforce in a way....

besides that not only is there the Pokemon Animé, the Video Games, Pokémon teaing card game, Megas, Toys , and books if I recall crerectly, but the fans also write fanfics about Pokémon, infact some fans go as far as to Make fake pokemon, in other words what this all boils down to is that thought the Pokémon franchise may not look as stong as it used to it has really became more stonger now then what it used to be....

See the Promblem is not that the Pokémon franchise is rather it that Most of the older fans are to Damn Chicken to admit to their Peers that they still like a "quote Kiddy game" Speaking of which I dont see any thing Chidish about Pokémon, I mean lets look at the pokémon for a moment no Pokemon looks that evil in my openion not even Houndoom, who has been unjustly acused of being evil, sure they are dark/fire(or Evil/fire in Japan) but still it stands to reason that Houndour and Houndoom, my have been inspired by the Legend of Canbrus, however they act more like Dobermin Pincers which is what Kind of dog they are baised off of so in other words Houndore and Houndoom are nothing more then a bread of fire breathing pet dogs, and not "quote tools of the Devil"

~Charles Legend

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

See the Promblem is not that the Pokémon franchise is rather it that Most of the older fans are to Damn Chicken to admit to their Peers that they still like a "quote Kiddy game" Speaking of which I dont see any thing Chidish about Pokémon, I mean lets look at the pokémon for a moment no Pokemon looks that evil in my openion not even Houndoom, who has been unjustly acused of being evil, sure they are dark/fire(or Evil/fire in Japan) but still it stands to reason that Houndour and Houndoom, my have been inspired by the Legend of Canbrus, however they act more like Dobermin Pincers which is what Kind of dog they are baised off of so in other words Houndore and Houndoom are nothing more then a bread of fire breathing pet dogs, and not "quote tools of the Devil"

~Charles Legend

Hm, a bit off topic, but...

I don't know the exact Japanese term for the dark type, but I think it means rather 'mischievous' than 'evil'. The Chinese/Japanese definition of 'evil' is not like ours anyway.