RMT

[Perfect Chaos]

Well, the games' release is about a week away, so I thought "what the hell, let me just make the first unofficial RMT for D/P before it comes out"

As of now, I don't plan on buying either games (cause quite frankly, I don't have a DS ). But still, its fun to make teams, even if just for the hell of it.

@Leftovers
Torrent

Surf
Flash Cannon/Steel Wing
Ice Beam
Aqua Ring/Agility/Drill Peck

-Well, his Sp. Atk is higher than his Atk, so I figured I should stick him with Flash Cannon. However, his Atk is about average, so Steel Wing isn't too bad on him either. I'm not sure about the last move though. Aqua Ring for healing, Agility for support, and Drill Peck for versatility.

@Leftovers
Leaf Guard

Leaf Blade
Sunny Day
Dig
Synthesis

-Well, I feel pretty comfortable with the set-up now. As Jeff suggested, Dig would actually be pretty counter for Fire-types, along with comboing it with Sunny Day to heal status effects.

@???
Intimidate

Thunder Fang/Thunderbolt
Ice Fang
Thunder Wave
???

-This guy looks SO DAMN COOL!! Stats aren't too bad though (his Atk is higher than his Sp. Atk though, and his Speed is very below normal for an Electric-type). Thus, Thunder Wave is a must for him. Not sure about the last move or between Thunder Fang/Thunderbolt.

@Leftovers
Guts

Swords Dance
Brick Break
Megahorn
Rock Slide

-I have loved this guy since GSC and will continue to do so. He's just so awesome in terms of stats and movepool. What's not to like about good ol' Heracross?

@Leftovers
Insomnia/Frisk

Shadow Ball
Dark Pulse
Sludge Bomb
Thunderbolt

-My second favorite Pokemon after Banette. I figured he was off better usage than Dusknoir, because now Shadow Ball and Sludge Bomb were Sp. Atks, so it'll do major damage from that. Dark Pulse is there to counter the Psychics that still have an advantage over Gengar and Thunderbolt is for versatility.

@Leftovers
Sand Veil

Swords Dance/Rock Slide
Dragon Claw
Fire Fang
Earthquake

-I also had a hard time with this because of my loyalty to Donphan. I'm Indian, and the elephant is kindof a "sacred" animal in India, so I always had a "bond" with Donphan. Alas, I must move on. Anyhoo, this guy is INSANE. Period. Some of the sickest stats in the game (the D/P Tyranitar if you will). Fast, strong and can take a decent beating. I daresay he could even take an Ice Beam or two before going down (if he can survive the first one, he's more than likely able to take down the user before then). Plus, he also looks so damn cool (I believe he's supposed to be based off of a Velociraptor [from the Jurassic Park movies] which makes it sweeter cause they were my favorite ).

Well there you have it. Feel free to tear it apart as much as you want, more than likely it will never come into existence (unless someone has the same exact crazy-ass mind that I do, which is pretty cool in my book ). I did not give EV's, IV's (whatever they are) because quite frankly, I never usually dealt with them and don't know how to. If you do know how to use them and want to in your rate, by all means go for it. Otherwise, just let me know what you think of the team so far.

Thanks

-Sean

[Jeff]

I'm not going to try to come up with suggestions for each Pokemon, considering at this point no one is experienced when it comes to the fourth gen (of course except for the lucky few who have played the Japanese versions)

One thing I know about Leafeon is that it has poor Sp Defense, so use sunny day with caution. Dig would make a nice surprise for Fire types, just be sure they aren't packing earthquake or you could be in for a surprise yourself

Dusknoir I heard is about the same as Dusclops in Gen3. It makes up for its loss of Shadow Ball with improved stats. A 100 attack makes it a decent attacker plus pressure is still there to drain PP, and slightly improved defenses make 'noir a pretty good PP sponge. Bannette unfortunately got the shaft this gen. I'd go with Dusknoir.

[Perfect Chaos]

I've decided that I will not use Bannette nor Dusknoir. I have decided to go with Gengar instead! Read the explanation above and again, let me know what you guys think!

-Sean

[mr_pikachu]

I don't honestly know much about the capabilities of these Pokemon. However, my one criticism is that almost all your Pokemon use nothing but physical moves. You only have one special attacker... might want to add another one or two to this team.

[Razola]

Uh, Surf, Shadow Ball, Sludge Bomb, Ice beam...it's a physical team but there's special spread around.

But Dig? Honestly, get rid of that. I also feel that Sunny Day on Leafeon is not very effective. You want Solarbeam, but Leafon is a physical pokemon. So, you basically waste a turn to make Synthesis heal. That set up isn't worth the payoff. Swords Dance and replace Synthesis with Wish.

[Perfect Chaos]

@Leftovers
Leaf Guard

Swords Dance
Leaf Blade
Wish
HP Rock/Filler

Yeah, now that I look back at it, this set does seem a better than the one that I managed to come up with. Again, this team is just purely for fun, as I have no intention of actually creating it (unless I somehow miraculously get a DS plus a copy of Diamond preferably).

-Sean

[Razola]

My Leafeon is going to have Baton Pass. Baton Pass Swords dance + wish seems feasible.

[Perfect Chaos]

It does, but I don't like the idea of having Leafeon with only one attack (that being Leaf Blade too, as Grass isn't that effective against alot of types). I think I might just stick with the above set-up for now.

[Razola]

Leafon is purely for support the way I run it. Leaf Blade just gives it SOME form of offense.

[Jeff]

One thing about Hidden power, I'm not completely sure about this though, but I think it's always special now, so HP Rock would be weak. Not that I can think of anything better, dig has its own problems despite being raised to 80BP.

As for Luxray. First of all, Thunderbolt over Thunder Fang, since it's base power more than makes up for the fact that it's running off of a lower stat (120Atk*65=7800 vs. 95SA*95=9025). For the last move, I'd go with either Fire Fang to deal with Magnezone, or Crunch for a strong physical move.

[Elekidkid]

Thunder Fang has the chance of Flinching, though, and coupled with Paralysis can be quite the hassle.

[Perfect Chaos]

Update time!

@Leftovers
Torrent

Surf
Flash Cannon
Ice Beam
Agility

-Well, I figured this is the best set-up for him. One Agility should be enough for him to become faster than most others and he can do some major damage with his three Attacks. Despite him getting STAB from Flash Cannon, I was wondering if it was still worth him having it or some other attack?


@Leftovers
Leaf Guard

Swords Dance
Leaf Blade
Wish
HP-Rock/X-Scissor

-Well as most of you know, there was a minor debate over what really works for Leafeon. Swords Dance to boost his pretty good Atk to higher levels and Leaf Blade to kill everything in sight, and Wish is there for support for the team. I was wondering if anyone knew if HP runs of Atk or Sp. Atk. If it runs off of Sp. Atk, I might stick with X-Scissor.

@???
Intimidate

Thunderbolt
Ice Fang
Crunch
Thunder Wave


-This guy looks SO DAMN COOL!! Stats aren't too bad though (his Atk is higher than his Sp. Atk though, and his Speed is very below normal for an Electric-type). Thus, Thunder Wave is a must for him. I decided to go with Thunderbolt instead of Thunder Fang, since TBolt's BP is higher than TFang's. Crunch is there to run off his high Atk and for versatility.

@Leftovers
Guts

Swords Dance
Brick Break
Megahorn
Rock Slide

-Nothing changed here. Maybe Stone Edge instead of Rock Slide, but I like Rock Slide for his Flinch effect and more PP with only 5 less BP.

@Leftovers
Levitate

Shadow Ball
Confuse Ray
Thunderbolt
Sludge Bomb

-I really wish Banette didn't get shafted as bad as he did in D/P ;(, he was (and still is in my book) one very cool Pokemon. But, so is Gengar! I took out Dark Pulse for Confuse Ray because I realized that Shadow Ball also deals with Psychics and other Ghosts as well. Confuse Ray really complements TBolt for parafusion fun.

@Leftovers
Sand Veil

Swords Dance
Dragon Claw
Fire Fang
Earthquake

-I also had a hard time with this because of my loyalty to Donphan. I'm Indian, and the elephant is kindof a "sacred" animal in India, so I always had a "bond" with Donphan. Alas, I must move on. Anyhoo, this guy is INSANE. Period. Some of the sickest stats in the game (the D/P Tyranitar if you will). Fast, strong and can take a decent beating. I daresay he could even take an Ice Beam or two before going down (if he can survive the first one, he's more than likely able to take down the user before then). Plus, he also looks so damn cool (I believe he's supposed to be based off of a Velociraptor [from the Jurassic Park movies] which makes it sweeter cause they were my favorite ).

OR

@Leftovers/Chesto Berry
Sturdy

Earthquake
Rock Slide
Rock Polish
Body Slam

-What can I say...I couldn't help myself. Donphan just rocks in my book. I figured, since I have Special Sweeper (Empoleon), why not a Physical one too. One Rock Polish (maybe two) and he can quickly sweep away lot of things. Still, despite my loyalties to him, its a very tough decision between him and Garchomp.

So yeah, I figured just to update it after doing a bit mor research and also just simply for the hell of it cause I'm finishing with finals tomorrow and I have nothing better to do ;O

Thanks

-Sean

[Perfect Chaos]

Sorry, I don't know if its right of me to bump this topic since its been a while, but I REALLY would like some of your guys' thoughts on what I should do for improvement of this team. I might not create IRL but its still fun to have something to look back on

-Sean

[Edge]

One thing you need to note about competitive battling is that rarely should you use both physical and special attacks on the same Pokemon. The reason is that because EVs are spread so thinly, you don't have the luxury of throwing EVs on an additional stat (attack or special attack).


Example:

One of your movesets is Crunch, Thunderbolt, Ice Fang, and Thunderwave.

Crunch and Ice Fang are physical attacks. Thunderbolt is a special one.

Get rid of Thunderbolt, and replace it with Thunder Fang. Its attack is higher, and you don't have enough EVs to distribute to special attack.

[Jeff]

There are plenty of reasons to put Thunderbolt on Luxray. Like I said, it has way more BP than Thunder fang (95 vs 65), which makes it actually stronger than Thunder fang even on Luxray. As for EVs, actually, there are enough to max two stats. Another good reason is that you don't want to get stuck behind physical walls, like Skarmory, who could probably take a few thunder fangs but fears T-bolt.

I realize some people have this idea that there are rules such as "don't mix physical and special attacks", but my philosophy is that if you can come up with a strategy that doesn't follow those rules but still works, then that's fine too.

[Edge]

While it's true that there are exceptions to the "no mix" rule, I tend to only use those exceptions if a pokemon has solid enough base stats to get by with distributing two attack EVs.

If you gave Luxray both attack and special attack EVs, what would happen to its HP? Defense/Special Defense/Speed?

It would turn out slow and defenseless - practically useless for competitive battling.

[Phoenixsong]

Are you sure that Thunderbolt is stronger, Jeff? I think that's only in theory or with a neutral nature. I'm pretty sure that if Luxray is Adamant, Thunder Fang is stronger; Thunderbolt is stronger if Modest or neutral. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that's the case.

On that note, though, you might as well go with Spark over Thunder Fang. Spark is more accurate and has a higher chance of causing paralysis for the same BP as Thunder Fang. I use Thunder Fang, but that's because my Luxray isn't competitve and it's gimmicky. Gimmicky is fun.

[Jeff]

OK, I did the math. With an adamant nature, not factoring in EVs, Thunder fang is slightly stronger.

120 (attack) * 65 (thunder fang BP) * 1.1 (nature boost) = 8580
95 (special attack) * 95 (thunderbot BP) * .9 (nature lowering) = 8122.5

Yeah, with an adamant nature, Thunder fang is stronger, anything else and Tunderbolt is stronger. Guess I should have factored that in when I did the math last time.

[Perfect Chaos]

Sorry for bringing this back up again, but I was wondering which Pokemon is better to use: Garchomp or Donphan? Once I figure that out I think I can lay-out a final team

Thanks

[Blademaster]

Garchomp.

[Phoenixsong]

Depends on what you're trying to do. For a bog-standard, fast sweeper, Garchomp. I don't know much about the competitive Donphan (although I'm considering it and might start looking into one), but I know it's tankier and can serve as a spinner. I don't know if you'd really want it to, but it can.

[Perfect Chaos]

@Leftovers
Torrent

Surf
Ice Beam
Flash Cannon/Grass Knot
Agility/Stealh Rock

-I know Flash Cannon doesn't cover many types, but I feel iffy about using Grass Knot cause the power varies. Not sure which to pick. Also, by giving it Stealth Rock, I know it can act as a bit of Support, especially since it has high Sp. Def.


@Leftovers
Leaf Guard

Swords Dance
Leaf Blade
Wish
Baton Pass

-I feel iffy about Leafeon having one attack, but its mainly for support with Wish and Baton Pass

@???
Intimidate

Thunder Fang
Ice Fang
Crunch
Thunder Wave


-Just sticking with the standard set

@Leftovers
Guts

Swords Dance
Close Combat/Brick Break
Megahorn
Stone Edge/Rock Slide

-I know Close Combat will do a crapload of damage, but is it worth it only having 5 PP and lowering Def and Sp. Def? I guess a similar question can be asked about Stone Edge and Rock Slide (with PP and power)

@Leftovers
Levitate

Shadow Ball
Confuse Ray/Hypnosis
Thunderbolt
Sludge Bomb/-Filler-

-Not sure about the last move. Sludge Bomb gets STAB and will probably do alot of damage. Also, I've been reading around and seeing people say its better to put Hypnosis in. I was thinking of sticking with Confuse Ray considering the possibility of parafusion with that and TBolt

@Leftovers
Sand Veil

Dragon Claw
Fire Fang
Earthquake
Swords Dance/Stone Edge

-I think the set's pretty standard. I threw on Stone Edge because, I could also BP Swords Dance to Garchomp through Leafeon as well, so I dunno which would work best.

[Phoenixsong]

Spark is superior to Thunder Fang, but I guess you can use TF if you want.

Also, Grass Knot is probably a better choice than Flash Cannon. The vast majority of BL and OU Pokémon that are weak to Grass are all going to get hit for a minimum of base 80 power. The only common Water-types I can think of that wouldn't be are Manaphy, Lanturn and Vaporeon; the only Rock- or Ground-type that comes to mind is Dugtrio, I guess, and even so you have Surf for all of those. Basically, it'll be hard-hitting more often than not.

[Perfect Chaos]

Phoenix: How come Spark is superior to Thunder Fang?

Also, what does BL stand for? Sorry, don't know my terminology

[Phoenixsong]

Actually, I believe I explained it on the last page, but it's got better accuracy and a higher paralysis chance. That tiny flinch chance TF has isn't really enough to justify using it over Spark.

BL = Borderline, the tier of competitive play directly below OU (Overused, sometimes also called Standard). BL Pokémon are almost, but not quite, as strong as OU Pokémon; generally, an otherwise OU team can get away with using one or two. BL Pokémon can also fight in their own tier and sometimes in the tier directly below them (which varies depending on who you ask).