ASB Movelist

[DarkestLight]

I see your reasoning.

I raise you specific counters. For the evasion factor in rain/hail/snow, if the shapes of light are made out to be not solid (ie you can see sand go through them, but not of the actual one) that already reduces your evasion prowess to zero.

As for the one hit and they go poof. The amount of times it takes for that one hit to occur may take all six tries. Yeah, it sucks if it is the first go around, but Double Team also does not raise your evasion by one like the games in ASB. A random number of clones appear and its from those clones that your "evasion stat" is increased.

You may only yield 2 clones, or you may yield 8 (after multiple times, yeah)

But, I'm interested in hearing more about this. It does seem silly to nullify the Double Team clones entirely, but Haze does that with no problem, why can't other weather conditions? It just doesn't seem right that after hitting the real one, you would hit the fake one again.

Anyone else wish to chime in though. We're open to interpretation of this. DT could be in use of a remodel for ASB mechanics.

(and Haze/Clear Smog laffs at your instant dampener comment)

[Oslo]

(and Haze/Clear Smog laffs at your instant dampener comment)

Very true. Skill Swap Power/Guard Swap (alol) is another move that can negate an opponent's +6 boost... and then give it to you instead! So the idea that a Double Team x6 can be wiped out with a single attack is reasonable. Double Team just isn't the kind of move you use six times consecutively; it's the kind of move you use only once at the beginning of a round when you're issuing commands after your opponent. I think the current mechanic is fine.

[RaZoR LeAf]

This is ANIME Style Battling.

In the anime, Double Team is negated by a single slap. Has been since the first season.

Sorry, but evasion doesn't tend to last long anyway. Almost every evasion-raising move is speed-based, and one god hit makes fast thing stop going fast. Newton's kind of a dick like that. :/

There's only two moves that exclusively raise evasion anyway. Double Team and Minimize. And whilst this is ANIME style battling, we can't keep using that as a reason, lest we allow AIM FOR THE HORN style ground beating electric attacks to be acceptable.

I see your reasoning.

I raise you specific counters. For the evasion factor in rain/hail/snow, if the shapes of light are made out to be not solid (ie you can see sand go through them, but not of the actual one) that already reduces your evasion prowess to zero.

Yeah I figured that after I wrote it.

As for the one hit and they go poof. The amount of times it takes for that one hit to occur may take all six tries. Yeah, it sucks if it is the first go around, but Double Team also does not raise your evasion by one like the games in ASB. A random number of clones appear and its from those clones that your "evasion stat" is increased.

You may only yield 2 clones, or you may yield 8 (after multiple times, yeah)

Maybe it's worth stating just how many clones are made per use of the move, rather than letting it be the ref's decision. Sometimes it'll be 1 clone, other times, you'll get five clones. It jumps from a 1/2 chance of hitting the target to a 1/6 chance, which will then drop to 1/5, 1/4, etc. which are greatly varying odds.

But, I'm interested in hearing more about this. It does seem silly to nullify the Double Team clones entirely, but Haze does that with no problem, why can't other weather conditions? It just doesn't seem right that after hitting the real one, you would hit the fake one again.

The only way I can see it working is if the clones are like a 'live-update'. So they look exactly like the pokemon when they are made. If the original gets hit, and (for instance) burnt, then all the clones immediately show the same damage too. That way, they are still identical copies and no one pokemon has been given an identifying feature.

Anyone else wish to chime in though. We're open to interpretation of this. DT could be in use of a remodel for ASB mechanics.

(and Haze/Clear Smog laffs at your instant dampener comment)

I meant aside from those. Clear Smog and haze will do that to all stats, but you can loose all your clones just by getting hit once. You don't loose all your attack by getting hit once.

[Rossymore]

The thing with accuracy and evasion based moves is that they're all luck based. In the games, they start out at 100% and change up or down depending on moves and determine how often the move hits, using the base accuracy of a move. It all relies on luck.

Double Team is an interesting move due to how, at least the way I ref it, it creates four clones. The opposing Pokemon now has a one in five chance of hitting the real one. If not, then it's a one in four chance. Repeated use of Double Team will cap it at four clones, don't want people getting too trigger happy. It does mean, however, that a potential of four moves will miss because of the move, or none and you just wasted an action and 10 energy.

Therefore, I think it's perfectly justified that the clones vanish as it can be frustrating to miss four moves and could easily turn the tide of battle, as once you get ahead in an ASB match, you will often continue to stay ahead.

[Blademaster]

There's only two moves that exclusively raise evasion anyway. Double Team and Minimize. And whilst this is ANIME style battling, we can't keep using that as a reason, lest we allow AIM FOR THE HORN style ground beating electric attacks to be acceptable.

Bad metaphor to use on me since I've ALWAYS supported that technique despite how often other people malign it. Never mind that Pikachu has kicked the shit out of plenty of other Ground types since as far back as the fifth episode, but maybe I'm just too logical for magic monster fighting: If the monster is covered with rock armor everywhere except for the big METAL CONDUCTIVE THING CONNECTED TO ITS BRAIN, then yeah, my rationale is to aim electrical attacks at that.

(Spoiler:) Thunder Armor on the other hand is bullshit that I'll never defend on no less than three separate grounds ranging from Pokemon physics to our own, before you start strawmanning with that.