Pokemon Colosseum in general

[Animelee]

Gee, I thought people were friendly and civilized here. Instead, they continually mock the little guy with a different opinion.

Don't leave because of Raz. If every person Raz insulted left, there'd be no one left at PokéMasters, LOL. Besides, even Raz said he doesn't take his comments, or the entire Internet, seriously.

[Orion]

Hmmmmm, I smell something around, but anyway. Xenesis, you should really ignore Raz. He's just the king of attention-seeking debates, and argument for the sake of it. His head is like made of Adamantaimai's shell. What makes it even funnier is that he hates Pokémon, yet he's modded at this Forum... oh well. Just ignore him, really. He'll always butt in at Pokémon Forums, trying to "Break it down" to us Fans. And not only that... I could go on, but just for the sake of it, ignore him.

And while I'll seem too Raz-ish with this, I guess I must break it down on everyone that's mocking Colosseum. I must agree that comparing Colosseum to FF is not the best thing to do (Even though FF has lost MAJOR quality in both storilines and Battle Systems, but that's another story.), and I'll just compare it to another Pokémon Games. First off, I've played all Pokémon games, and my previous rant about GSC was just 'cause everyone was like "OMG, GSC und PS2 is teh God!". I really liked the game, but my opinion remains.

First, let's get BACK on Topic, and see what's the reason of being of this thread. It claimed Colosseum had no Replay Value... first, what's Replay Value for you, Andy (Refering to the thread's starter)? Whatever it is for you, I'll break it down like this. Replay Value, or RV stands for:
-What any sort of game has to offer after being "officially" ended.
And
-The capacity of a game to be restarted without getting repetitive or boring.

With this in consideration, ask yourself: how much RV do all Pokémon Games have? For the sake of it, let's compare Colosseum with it's "equals": RBY, GSC, RSE and FR/LG. Let's go back in time, and ask ourselves: did RBY had ANY RV at all? The answer remains in facts. What to do after Elite Four in RBY? Unknown Dungeon (Get Mewtwo.), complete the Pokédex, and make a Team(s) to battle other people. That's it... then it's down to Link with your friends to Battle. That's as much Replay Value as it gets.

GSC? First off, don't count Kanto as the RV part of the 2nd Generation. It isn't! If Kanto was actually optional (Not forced, as it really is.), then it would have been, but not. It's forced, and takes you to the true Champion, Red, leading you to the TRUE Credits on this game. So, after this, let's see... what to do after beating Red? Completing your Pokédex, Play Battle Tower (Crystal only, and that is merely not rewarding, unlike RSE Tower...), and make a Team(s) to battle other people. Again, that's it... then it's down again to Link with your friends to Battle. Close to RBY? It sure is...

RSE? Now we ARE talking! This generation has HUGE RV, but let's see how much. What to do after beating the Elite Four? Battle Tower (And most will just reach 100 Battles and leave with the Gold Shield.), complete your Pokédex (There enter Lati@s, Rayquaza and Beldum sub-quests after EF.), win the five Contests and get painted. With the 4 Trainer Stars, what's left? Make a Secret Base, get Items (For Secret Bases, or Attachments for your Pokémon.). Then, it goes down to filling the National Pokédex, and you're done. You know what's next? Blend Berries, Mix Data, and make Teams for Battles and Contests so you can Link with your friends and play. Emerald just expands it a whole lot more with Battle Frontier and some more extras. In other words, almost endless RV, but still has a peak.

FR/LG? Read RSE, and just add a stronger Elite Four. Yep, that's it...

Now we come at Colosseum. What's left after winning the Realgam Tournament? Catch some Shadow Pokés remaining around (Which involves the sub-quests.), purify'em, get some Items and Pinch Berries, beat the Colosseums and Mt. Battle in Battle Mode, get Ho-Oh, complete your Strategy Guide in your P*DA (AKA Pseudo-Pokédex.). And then? Make a Team for Battling with other people, and use Colosseum as a medium for 3D Battles. Any similarity with previous Pokémon Games is mere coincidence? NO!!!!! Pokémon Games are done like this, and Colosseum is NO exception!

That goes for RV in-game. But now let's get with the other aspect of it: is a Pokémon game worthy of being restarted? The answer is yes, but to a REALLY small exent. The first Restarts will be like "whatever", but after the 5th or 6th, you're starting to get bored. That's why I really hated the old games to be erased on me! I had to restart like 40 times, and that wasn't fun at all! There are many things to try that can encourage a restart (Like mono-type challenges, among other stuff.), but really... Pokémon is one of those games I'm not eager to restart too many times. Losing all of your Pokémon and stuff is really not something you'd like to do. And well, I just restarted Colosseum Story Mode, and I'm enjoying it. At the end, as with most games, Pokémon is not good to be restarted too much. Colosseum also stands in this category...

However, most people claim it's really useless to restart Colosseum, and that it's more boring... why? It's just because you can't get an obscenely high amount of Pokémon, and that your choices are limited? It's because you're so-used to the Pink World the rest of the Pokémon Games have that you feel discouraged when you enter an obscure, low, and monopolized world? Or it's because you're so used to the "Become a Pokémon Master" and "Gotta catch'em all" thinghamaghic that when you see a Region that lacks GYMs, a League, and controlled by an evil organization, Pokémon-Hollow, desertic and the fact you're a Pokémon Robber, you can't stand it? This means you're not ready for the changes, and if a drastic change overcomes the upcoming Pokémon games, you won't be able to stand it and you'll leave.

That takes me to the break-down: are you a TRUE Pokémon Fan? Do you trust your Pokémon and treat'em as if they were real? You play for fun and forget about trivial things like IVs and EVs just to have friendly Battles? Do you LOVE your Pokémon, and when in the verge of Defeat, you trust them to stand back and win? Heck, do you actually Battle via Link Cable or Colosseum? If the answers to most of all of those questions are "No", then no wonder why you mock Colosseum!

You might thing I have no life, and that I'm biased, or whatever, but well... Pokémon is about Trust, Love, and having fun times with your Pokémon. You must get into the character and feel all of this. THAT'S the true greatness of Pokémon. Instead, I just see a bunch of people that think of Pokémon as "numbers", and just battle to be the best at "Calculus", NOT "Pokémon"! If you were so in touch with Pokémon as I am, you would enjoy Colosseum SO much. I swear I could feel the sorrow and sadness of Shadow Pokémon; their artificially-shut hearts pleading to be an open heart for love again. That's why when I purified a Shadow Pokémon, I felt so happy: I helped them on reverting back to what they were, and allowed them to be happy again at my side. They became my trusty friends, and there's something special about them. I helped them to overcome all difficulties, as the Ribbon they proudly port says. That makes them special among all of my other Pokémon...

That's why battling in Online Pokémon Battles is hollow and useless. You MUST be able to be at the side of your opponent, and to see your Pokémon in the middle of a Colosseum. THAT'S the only way to appreciate the true greatness of Pokémon, and not hollow text and static images standing there. In REAL Battles, you can feel the sweat; in Online Battles, it's just chattering...

Only those that think like me will be able to appreciate Colosseum. Still, I must admit it: it's a good game, but not in the level of other Pokémon games. Or Genius really sucks at this, or Nintendo didn't supported Colosseum enough... this game HAD the chance of bringing back the mature audience back to Pokémon, but they failed badly in many aspects. Yep, I'm not THAT biased, I know my stuff. I won't even compare Pokémon to Final Fantasy. I'm comparing Colosseum to all other Pokémon games, and stated facts. As you see, all are very similar. If you can't appreciate it, it's because of other personal issues.

And well, as someone said before, the point of Colosseum IS to have 3D Battles with your friends. The rest comes as an extra (Like in Stadium games...). If you don't like 3D Pokémon Battles, that's fine... you're losing out.

*Expects major unconstructive criticism from non-Pokémon fans and the R man.*

[Poryhedron]

Hear hear!

[Xenesis]

Hurrah.

*Hands Orion a cookie*

Well, I admit FF may not have been the perfect comparison, but then, I never really felt that the FF games were as deep as some people seem to think they are. O.o

And I do agree with you on the point about restarting.

[andyizcool]

First, let's get BACK on Topic, and see what's the reason of being of this thread. It claimed Colosseum had no Replay Value... first, what's Replay Value for you, Andy (Refering to the thread's starter)? Whatever it is for you, I'll break it down like this. Replay Value, or RV stands for:
-What any sort of game has to offer after being "officially" ended.
And
-The capacity of a game to be restarted without getting repetitive or boring.

That takes me to the break-down: are you a TRUE Pokémon Fan? Do you trust your Pokémon and treat'em as if they were real? You play for fun and forget about trivial things like IVs and EVs just to have friendly Battles? Do you LOVE your Pokémon, and when in the verge of Defeat, you trust them to stand back and win? Heck, do you actually Battle via Link Cable or Colosseum? If the answers to most of all of those questions are "No", then no wonder why you mock Colosseum!

I completed Pokemon Colosseum and got Ho-oh from 100 Battles on Mt Battle. After that I downloaded all the Pokemon onto Pokemon Sapphire and gave up on the game because I didn't feel like playing it anymore. Pokemon Colosseum didn't make me replay it in any way but I admit it was a good game as I went through it once. I'm mostly into getting good IVs and EVs for battling against my friend and I don't do Online Battling anymore because like Serebii say it has no soul. I'm not a really big Pokemon Fan like I use to be and I haven't played any of my other games in ages. I've been depressed for sometime so I only play games once or twice now and if I get stuck I quit or if I complete it I quit.

[Razola]

Bring it on, BITCH.

Hmmmmm, I smell something around, but anyway. Xenesis, you should really ignore Raz. He's just the king of attention-seeking debates, and argument for the sake of it.

Strawman and accusation of false motives. Besides, if I'm attention seeking, then why the Hell did you make a page long epic post? Because that's only going to egg me on further.

His head is like made of Adamantaimai's shell.

You have me confused with Animelee or WPM.

What makes it even funnier is that he hates Pokémon, yet he's modded at this Forum... oh well.

I like Pokemon, I'm just not a mindless devotee. Because, I like good games as well. Pokemon Red/Blue = Genius. Gold/Silver = Awesome sequel. Ruby/Sapphire = Lackluster and formula-based. Pokemon Pinball = Damn awesome, both of them. I have no idead why I didn't get the pinball games...

So I don't hate pokemon, I hate what Nintendo is doing to it. There's a key difference.

Just ignore him, really. He'll always butt in at Pokémon Forums, trying to "Break it down" to us Fans. And not only that... I could go on, but just for the sake of it, ignore him.

This is hilarious because you are being hyprocritical. You have one of, if not THE biggest post in this thread, and I bet it's all aimed at me. Last time I checked, THAT'S NOT IGNORING. If you were smart, you'd just PM people your tidbits of stupid assumptions.

Oh, and I also tire of you fan boys "breaking it down" how Nintendo is infallible.

And while I'll seem too Raz-ish with this, I guess I must break it down on everyone that's mocking Colosseum.

As a fan of irony, you have no idea how much I loooooooove this statement.

A lot off stuff about replay.

Replay is useless if those things aren't fun. Beauty contests were just a different kind of battle, and making a secret base wasn't engaging at all. Oh, and the 100 trainer battles aren't much fun since the AI sucks complete and utter ass.

Now we come at Colosseum. What's left after winning the Realgam Tournament? Catch some Shadow Pokés remaining around (Which involves the sub-quests.), purify'em, get some Items and Pinch Berries, beat the Colosseums and Mt. Battle in Battle Mode, get Ho-Oh, complete your Strategy Guide in your P*DA (AKA Pseudo-Pokédex.). And then? Make a Team for Battling with other people, and use Colosseum as a medium for 3D Battles. Any similarity with previous Pokémon Games is mere coincidence? NO!!!!! Pokémon Games are done like this, and Colosseum is NO exception!

It has LESS things to do than Ruby/Sapphire. While I may not find the things in R/S fun, not having them at all in the Gamecube version is insanity. Bigger medium, yet less content. That would be great...if they didn't charge full price.

However, most people claim it's really useless to restart Colosseum, and that it's more boring... why? It's just because you can't get an obscenely high amount of Pokémon, and that your choices are limited?

No, because Colosseum wasn't fun the first time around. Lame AI, car-crash of a story, and pitiful gameplay compared even to the GBA versions. And this is on TOP of more limited options than the GBA verisions. Who wants to replay that?

It's because you're so-used to the Pink World the rest of the Pokémon Games have that you feel discouraged when you enter an obscure, low, and monopolized world?

Since Stadium 1 & 2 had NO named region, this argument is kinda moot.

Or it's because you're so used to the "Become a Pokémon Master" and "Gotta catch'em all" thinghamaghic that when you see a Region that lacks GYMs, a League, and controlled by an evil organization, Pokémon-Hollow, desertic and the fact you're a Pokémon Robber, you can't stand it?

I've already stated why I can't stand it. And Gyms/Leagues are just regular trainer with usually one type at higher levels. Wow.

This means you're not ready for the changes, and if a drastic change overcomes the upcoming Pokémon games, you won't be able to stand it and you'll leave.

Change!? It's exactly like Stadium 1 & 2, only with a story and you have to walk to your next fight instead of everything being auto-mated. HOLY SHIT, MY WORLD IS TOTALLY NEW AND SCARY.

That takes me to the break-down: are you a TRUE Pokémon Fan?

Watch out people, we're about to get a black & white fallacy going.

Do you trust your Pokémon and treat'em as if they were real? You play for fun and forget about trivial things like IVs and EVs just to have friendly Battles? Do you LOVE your Pokémon, and when in the verge of Defeat, you trust them to stand back and win? Heck, do you actually Battle via Link Cable or Colosseum? If the answers to most of all of those questions are "No", then no wonder why you mock Colosseum!

Hey, here's a thought. I play them because they are just fun games. I'm not some sort of extremist who cries when my faint and then proceed to calcuate the 15 new secret numbers Nintendo added so my pokemon can be awesome. I played it because it was a fun RPG. PERIOD. You don't need to think Mario is real or Link is real to be a fan, so why must we follow your insane protocol? A good game is a good game, and Colosseum was not a good game.

I say YOU'RE not a good fan because you're clearly not demanding the best out of the franchise.

You might think I have no life, and that I'm biased, or whatever, but well... Pokémon is about Trust, Love, and having fun times with your Pokémon. You must get into the character and feel all of this. THAT'S the true greatness of Pokémon. Instead, I just see a bunch of people that think of Pokémon as "numbers", and just battle to be the best at "Calculus", NOT "Pokémon"! If you were so in touch with Pokémon as I am, you would enjoy Colosseum SO much. I swear I could feel the sorrow and sadness of Shadow Pokémon; their artificially-shut hearts pleading to be an open heart for love again. That's why when I purified a Shadow Pokémon, I felt so happy: I helped them on reverting back to what they were, and allowed them to be happy again at my side. They became my trusty friends, and there's something special about them. I helped them to overcome all difficulties, as the Ribbon they proudly port says. That makes them special among all of my other Pokémon...

You suck in ways that defy description.

That's why battling in Online Pokémon Battles is hollow and useless. You MUST be able to be at the side of your opponent, and to see your Pokémon in the middle of a Colosseum. THAT'S the only way to appreciate the true greatness of Pokémon, and not hollow text and static images standing there. In REAL Battles, you can feel the sweat; in Online Battles, it's just chattering...

It's not our fault you lack an imagination. Just because YOU are so mentally handicapped you have to have pretty graphics ato enjoy it doesn't mean that other forms of battle are hollow. The rest of us can enjoy the fairly solid battle system regardless of where it's taking place.

Only those that think like me will be able to appreciate Colosseum.

Besides being a horrible, borderline Nazi argument, it's also a good reason why Colosseum: an over-reliance on sub-par graphics to compensate for stiff, lackluster gameplay.

Still, I must admit it: it's a good game, but not in the level of other Pokémon games. Or Genius really sucks at this, or Nintendo didn't supported Colosseum enough... this game HAD the chance of bringing back the mature audience back to Pokémon, but they failed badly in many aspects. Yep, I'm not THAT biased, I know my stuff. I won't even compare Pokémon to Final Fantasy. I'm comparing Colosseum to all other Pokémon games, and stated facts. As you see, all are very similar. If you can't appreciate it, it's because of other personal issues.

I don't see many facts, just you pissing opinions and pyschotic dictates on the walls.

And well, as someone said before, the point of Colosseum IS to have 3D Battles with your friends. The rest comes as an extra (Like in Stadium games...). If you don't like 3D Pokémon Battles, that's fine... you're losing out.

Remember what I said about sub-par graphics compensating for stiff gameplay?

Yeah...a lot of people buy into that. Sad.

*Expects major unconstructive criticism from non-Pokémon fans and the R man.*

This whole post reeked of way too many fallacies and preaching.

[Orion]

Hehe, I knew my Raz Bait would work... you know, it's always hilarious how you mock everyone that thinks differently than you. Cracks me up like nothing else! That made my day, thanks a lot!

I broke it down on everyone, stating FACTS, not OPINION. Your rants are always based on YOUR opinion, which makes them invalid at best. And well, I like to make all my posts worth it, longer than one-liners, and not Postcount++, at what you're really experienced. Oh well, it's impossible to enter in your mind, since you're teh God... some serious Psy stuff there.

Oh nos! I'm becoming another Raz... oh well, this is fun somehow. Now I understand why you do it. Whatever goes your trail. I tend to put lots of my own soul in all my Hobbies, and Pokémon is no exception. Yep, I'm a weirdo in MANY ways, but at least I accept it. And if you hate the 3rd Generation so much, why you come and darken our Forums? Go to GSC and RBY, and leave the RSEFRLGC to those that actually like it. But no, you can't stand being in the past, can you?

This is fun, but I'll stop... as for the rest of you: thanks for the feedback. *Grabs cookie* And don't worry, Andy, I understand your points. And well, sorry in some way for being so harsh. I also mind about EVs, but not IVs, as my luck is awful. EVs I can control...

[Razola]

Hehe, I knew my Raz Bait would work...

That's not bait, it's called "replying to a post." Bait usually involves making general comments about something. For example, if I was to bait Animelee, I wouldn't just reply to his topic, for that is just replying. I would state "Pokemon suxx0rs" or something like that.

you know, it's always hilarious how you mock everyone that thinks differently than you. Cracks me up like nothing else! That made my day, thanks a lot!

I don't mock people that argue like they are sane. Did I ever mock TRO (or at least as much the people on here)? No, because he could get his arguments across at leat like a somewhat intelligent person.

I do, hoever, get a laugh out of reading your fanatic rants, so I guess it's even.

I broke it down on everyone, stating FACTS, not OPINION.

What fact? Let's go over what you said, shall we? You stated that True Pokemon Fans basically roleplay like there's no tommorrow. That your pokemon are only a notch below your pet dog in terms of love and friendship.

This is not fact. It has never been tested and proven in a lab, and it is not widely accepted by the masses. It is your own twisted opinion on pokemon.

You say pokemon Ruby/Sapphire has replay value. This is not fact. It is your opinion that there is a lot to do after words. Others may play games that have a lot more to do, and Pokemon doesn't satisfy their need for after-completion activities.

So basically, you are saying your opinions are facts. And that scares me.

Your rants are always based on YOUR opinion, which makes them invalid at best. And well, I like to make all my posts worth it, longer than one-liners, and not Postcount++, at what you're really experienced. Oh well, it's impossible to enter in your mind, since you're teh God... some serious Psy stuff there.

Ah, this is the part I love. The relevation that you're insecurities are true. So instead of tryng to bolster your opinion, you claw at me like some scared animal in a corner. I have a feeling you didn't even read my previous post. I have a feeling you're not even going to bring up the qualities of Pokemon Colosseum in this post. You're just going to try and attack me the whole way through.

I pray that I'm wrong. Otherwise, that would be a post that doesn't contribute to the topic and hand, and thus isn't really worthy of being here.

Oh nos! I'm becoming another Raz... oh well, this is fun somehow.

If you were becoming me, you would actually stay on topic and ignore the occasional barbs I throw. You see, Ad Hominem attacks actually work for me, because they actually get you off the topic. But when you Ad Hominem me, I see right through your bullshit.

Now get the hell back on topic. Pokemon Colosseum has too little replay value.

Now I understand why you do it. Whatever goes your trail.

God damn, are you STILL going on about this? Look, if you can't properly argue the topic at hand, then just concede.

I tend to put lots of my own soul in all my Hobbies, and Pokémon is no exception.

Wow, don't we all.

Yep, I'm a weirdo in MANY ways, but at least I accept it.

I am a nerd, dork, geek, etc. I have found a niche I feel comfortable in. I suggest you get over whatever personal problems you have and stick to the topic at hand.

And if you hate the 3rd Generation so much, why you come and darken our Forums?

Last time I checked, it's "Discuss other old Pokémon games and new releases (Colosseum, Box, etc) in this forum.", not "Gush and endlessly praise other old Pokémon games and new releases (Colosseum, Box, etc) in this forum. The mocking of our electronic gods are forbidden."

I have a dissenting opinion. That's not against the rules. And I'm the mod here: I know a thing or two about the rules.

Go to GSC and RBY, and leave the RSEFRLGC to those that actually like it. But no, you can't stand being in the past, can you?

You're afraid of a dynamic future, aren't you?

This is fun, but I'll stop... as for the rest of you: thanks for the feedback. *Grabs cookie* And don't worry, Andy, I understand your points. And well, sorry in some way for being so harsh. I also mind about EVs, but not IVs, as my luck is awful. EVs I can control...

In the end, this post accomplished nothing. You just yelled and whined about me, totally dodging the issue at hand.

You lose.

[Animelee]

You have me confused with Animelee or WPM.

Actually, I have no idea who, or what "Adamantaimai" is, as it has nothing to do with Pokémon.

For example, if I was to bait Animelee, I wouldn't just reply to his topic, for that is just replying. I would state "Pokemon suxx0rs" or something like that.

Yeah, that's true, actually.

Anyways, Orion, I do agree with a lot you have to say, but truthfully, even I wasn't fully satisfied with Colosseum. I was 95% satisfied with Ruby/Sapphire, and same with LeafGreen/FireRed. Only Emerald is a truly worthy sequel to Crystal that I'm 100% satisfied with.

Don't get me wrong, I liked Colosseum, but after getting Ho-oh, I traded over everyone to Ruby, and I never entered Story Mode ever again. Sad, but true. I only use Colosseum to battle with my brother or friends.

I hope that when the "Stadium/Colosseum" game comes out for the DS generation of games, Diamond and Pearl, that either HAL Laboratories takes over the game production like they did for Stadium 1 - 3, or Genius Sorority works longer and harder than they did on Colosseum.

[PKMN Master]

However, most people claim it's really useless to restart Colosseum, and that it's more boring... why? It's just because you can't get an obscenely high amount of Pokémon, and that your choices are limited? It's because you're so-used to the Pink World the rest of the Pokémon Games have that you feel discouraged when you enter an obscure, low, and monopolized world? Or it's because you're so used to the "Become a Pokémon Master" and "Gotta catch'em all" thinghamaghic that when you see a Region that lacks GYMs, a League, and controlled by an evil organization, Pokémon-Hollow, desertic and the fact you're a Pokémon Robber, you can't stand it? This means you're not ready for the changes, and if a drastic change overcomes the upcoming Pokémon games, you won't be able to stand it and you'll leave.

Yes, the idea of pkmn Colosseum was good, but it was poorly executed. Someone on these forums stated it so perfectly, that I can't find better words for it "Too late, too little"

That takes me to the break-down: are you a TRUE Pokémon Fan? Do you trust your Pokémon and treat'em as if they were real? You play for fun and forget about trivial things like IVs and EVs just to have friendly Battles? Do you LOVE your Pokémon, and when in the verge of Defeat, you trust them to stand back and win? Heck, do you actually Battle via Link Cable or Colosseum? If the answers to most of all of those questions are "No", then no wonder why you mock Colosseum!

Not as much as I did in Stadium 1&2. Of course, being a true pokefan takes a lot of feeling; but to be a real one, you must also understand the inner workings of the game. You can always play for fun, ignoring all math stuff. But if you consider yourself serious, then you should embrace the whole concept.

You might thing I have no life, and that I'm biased, or whatever, but well... Pokémon is about Trust, Love, and having fun times with your Pokémon. You must get into the character and feel all of this. THAT'S the true greatness of Pokémon. Instead, I just see a bunch of people that think of Pokémon as "numbers", and just battle to be the best at "Calculus", NOT "Pokémon"! If you were so in touch with Pokémon as I am, you would enjoy Colosseum SO much. I swear I could feel the sorrow and sadness of Shadow Pokémon; their artificially-shut hearts pleading to be an open heart for love again. That's why when I purified a Shadow Pokémon, I felt so happy: I helped them on reverting back to what they were, and allowed them to be happy again at my side. They became my trusty friends, and there's something special about them. I helped them to overcome all difficulties, as the Ribbon they proudly port says. That makes them special among all of my other Pokémon...

Ok I get your point. But you are doing the exact same thing you're critizicing: you only see one side of the equation, so to speak. Yes, you have to "love" your pogeymans, and yes, you can get really close to them; but you can't just ignore everything else that the game is about. I'm a very inquisitive person: I can apprecciate the beauty of things, but many, many times I just have to know how did they get to be so beautiful. To really apprecciate things, you must understand them. And I didn't enjoy Colosseum that much, precisely because of what I've said; they didn't fulfill my expectations... yes, it's great to help ur little monsters to overcome all difficulties, but then what? the so called story line is so straightforward; you can't get that much into the game. Think of Ocarina of Time. Hands down. The game is just so good, that there can't be any comparisons; there you are involved by the game, you get excited as the story develops, you get in touch with that world. Now, in Colosseum there isn't such thing; you can't get in touch with the rpg world; you only get certain pokemon, no matter how many times you play, and you only get to walk inside towns... anything else to do after the only quest of capture certain pkmn and purify them, and battle with ur friends and complete your RS pokedex.

That's why battling in Online Pokémon Battles is hollow and useless. You MUST be able to be at the side of your opponent, and to see your Pokémon in the middle of a Colosseum. THAT'S the only way to appreciate the true greatness of Pokémon, and not hollow text and static images standing there. In REAL Battles, you can feel the sweat; in Online Battles, it's just chattering...

Nope, it's not hollow nor useless. You can test your abilities as trainer, and also it helps to improve your strategies in real life. Plus, for many people, it's the only way of pkmn interaction.

Only those that think like me will be able to appreciate Colosseum. Still, I must admit it: it's a good game, but not in the level of other Pokémon games. Or Genius really sucks at this, or Nintendo didn't supported Colosseum enough... this game HAD the chance of bringing back the mature audience back to Pokémon, but they failed badly in many aspects. Yep, I'm not THAT biased, I know my stuff. I won't even compare Pokémon to Final Fantasy. I'm comparing Colosseum to all other Pokémon games, and stated facts. As you see, all are very similar. If you can't appreciate it, it's because of other personal issues.

You said it yourself: this game HAD potential, it just didn't get enough support. But still, among other pkmn games, it is inferior in many ways. It kinda lost the essence of pokemon really. Just look at rinku's post. Nobody knows how to relate the Orre region to Japan... and that's been one of the "essencial" things... it's always related to japanese culture.

And well, as someone said before, the point of Colosseum IS to have 3D Battles with your friends. The rest comes as an extra (Like in Stadium games...). If you don't like 3D Pokémon Battles, that's fine... you're losing out.

Actually, I bought it because of the RPG mode. I thought OMG! I get to play with my pkmn, raise them, and fight with them, all in a 3D environment. Nintendo advertised it as the so long expected 3D RPG. But it failed to be a good RPG, and it failed in the Battle mode too. Same graphics as N64, with less visual effects, n00b AI... meh.


No one fears change. But, I agree with Raz in his classification: RBY=teh best. The original. The one game that made us fans. GSC, awesome sequel, with everything else missing in RBY. RS, kind of a step-down in the franchise, which was kinda made up with FR/LG and Emerald... and Colosseum... is the lowest point in pkmn history. This isn't a fact, just an opinion...

[Orion]

Hmmm... it's nice to see some intelligent discussion at last. FYI Animelee, an Adamantaimai is a turtle that appears in many Final Fantasy games. It has the highest Defense of all regular enemies, and its shell is thought to be impenetrable.

Well, now to the point. Actually, I wasn't THAT satisfied with Colosseum either. It's just that I really liked the darker atmosphere, a Team/Organization that actually had something going for them, and well, just flat out a different adventure without the 3 Starters, 8 GYMs and Elite thingy. I'ts OK if you don't appreciate the layout or story which I must admit, wasn't that great as it went on. Unfortunately, no effort at all was put in this game...

Actually, something tells me the Disc wasn't even filled out. There are several things they could've done instead of just "pasting" Stadium 2, adding the new Pokés and fitting a "RPG". One thing that really disappointed me were the graphics. I'm not complaining about them (I liked the Stadium 2 graphics, and the new Pokémon look awesome too.), but they could've done better than just transferring the old Sprites and make kinda sub-par new graphics for the new Pokés. I never consider Graphics vital to any game, as I enjoy games regardless of them (Or sometimes even more than graphic-heavy games, regarding Final Fantasy series.), but a higher amount of effort should've putted.

I say this because, apart from the Steel Pokémon (Whom now reflect light a bit, and you can see it's ACTUALLY metal, unlike Stadium 2.), ALL the other models are the same... this bugs me the most with Raikou. It isn't THAT beautiful to start with, but the 3D Model leaves MUCH to be desired. Also, they butchered Bellossom, my dear one. NO effort at all was put in graphics. At the VERY least, they should've taken the improved Pokémon from Super Smash Bros: Melee and put their high-res models in Colosseum. If Bellossom, the 3 Beasts, and Mewtwo looked like they looked in SSB:M, and they did the same for ALL the old models, this game would've been a lot better, at least visually. Oh well, they were REALLY lazy with the graphics. Even the Trainers don't look THAT well... and while most RS Pokés look good, a handful leaves much to be desired, like Delcatty...

Another thing that was left out and that REALLY hurted the regular Battle scene was that this game, compared to Stadium 2 Battles, fails in comparision. Where went the small but nice details they had back in the days? I mean, the Pokémon "posing" when they jumped out of the Poké Ball? The better-sounding cries? Certain Move effects that looked better in the past? The voice/refree/announcer? The Stadium selection? MANY things are left out. There's also the detail that when a move was not very effective, the attacked Pokémon wouldn't even move. ALL these details hurt the game's attempt at realism. It isn't as if adding a Story Mode, new Move animations and Trainer Graphics wouldn't allow them to leave the old, but nice details. Well, I'm not sure on how much a Game Cube disc can hold, but I think it can have more than Stadium 2 could.

Another flaw was that the conenction GBA-GCN isn't as good as the Transfer Pack-N64 one. Now we must be always with our Team ready in order to battle... while this is not good, it at least solved a BIG trouble in Stadium games. Now you can choose moves and commands in the GBA screen, while in the Stadiums you had to memorize the order of your Team, moves and the buttons that triggered such command if you didn't want your opponent to see. Not complaining about connection time and such, since it's an indirect connection, and the system must be uploaded to the GBA screen. The N64 one was direct and fast... oh well, it has its up and its downs.

Andy said it already: "Pokemon Colosseum is really only for die hard Pokemon fans who live 3D Battling and random battles with messed up Pokemon." You also brought up a point, PKMN Master: "Too late, too little". And that is true, unfortunately. Still I still hold on that this game had SOME nice stuff... but I must accept the cons outweight the pros.

The reason of me defending the few good things this game had is that I didn't enjoy the first 2 Generations at all... be that my Versions always erased on me, or the massive cheating in Stadium 2, or that my friends abused 00bers every now and then. Also, while RS might be formula-based and all this, it riddled away a problem of the past two Generations. In the new Generation, you MUST make an effort to have competitive Pokémon. In the old ones it was just Rare Candy, Vitamins and Box Trick. Only the top-tier Pokémon had a chance there. Now in RS, ALL Pokémon have potential. Some more than others, but with the right planning, Items, EV distribution and OK IVs, plus Natures and Abilities, even the puniest Pokémon can put up a fight. And well, I DO care about EVs (Not IVs, they require too much luck, which I don't have.), but they're still a trivial thing nonetheless. I also agree that, after seeing Emerald features and such, RS look as if they were rushed...

I can't do much but agree with you now... still, this Generation is for the people that always wanted to use their Favorite Pokémon, but couldn't because their Stats wouldn't ever be as good as the Overused ones. After battling in Colosseum Battle Mode, I'm happy that my Bellossom FINALLY can have a chance. Also, this time you must make an effort for having powerful or effective Pokémon. Most of my friends that played with me back in the days were big bad n00bs, but they always won because they used 00bers, and I didn't. It might not be the case for most of you, but they would ignore the Clauses and such... that's my reason behind defending the 3rd Generation and its games: finally, the game won't erase every time, I have the upper hand 'cause I know what to do to have good Pokémon... yep, I know it's biased and everything, but you must accept that Colosseum and RS had many good things. Seems that most have accpeted it, thus, it's my time to accept the cons.

That was (probably) my final rant. I must come to the conclussion that Colosseum wasn't a good game at all, but I can still enjoy it. Peace out, and good discussion for the most part, everyone!

[Razola]

Hmmm... it's nice to see some intelligent discussion at last.

You were on really thin ice with your rants against me. Next time stay on topic.

[PKMN Master]

The reason of me defending the few good things this game had is that I didn't enjoy the first 2 Generations at all... be that my Versions always erased on me, or the massive cheating in Stadium 2, or that my friends abused 00bers every now and then. Also, while RS might be formula-based and all this, it riddled away a problem of the past two Generations. In the new Generation, you MUST make an effort to have competitive Pokémon. In the old ones it was just Rare Candy, Vitamins and Box Trick. Only the top-tier Pokémon had a chance there. Now in RS, ALL Pokémon have potential. Some more than others, but with the right planning, Items, EV distribution and OK IVs, plus Natures and Abilities, even the puniest Pokémon can put up a fight. And well, I DO care about EVs (Not IVs, they require too much luck, which I don't have.), but they're still a trivial thing nonetheless. I also agree that, after seeing Emerald features and such, RS look as if they were rushed...

I'm surprised. RBY and GSC are the versions that are most within my good memories... I didn't use 00bers, but regular pokemon. But I enjoyed them so much...

I can't do much but agree with you now... still, this Generation is for the people that always wanted to use their Favorite Pokémon, but couldn't because their Stats wouldn't ever be as good as the Overused ones. After battling in Colosseum Battle Mode, I'm happy that my Bellossom FINALLY can have a chance. Also, this time you must make an effort for having powerful or effective Pokémon. Most of my friends that played with me back in the days were big bad n00bs, but they always won because they used 00bers, and I didn't. It might not be the case for most of you, but they would ignore the Clauses and such... that's my reason behind defending the 3rd Generation and its games: finally, the game won't erase every time, I have the upper hand 'cause I know what to do to have good Pokémon... yep, I know it's biased and everything, but you must accept that Colosseum and RS had many good things. Seems that most have accpeted it, thus, it's my time to accept the cons.

Ok, one last comment. Colosseum wasn't what they promised, they just showed us one game made with rush, and left out many of the good things accomplished in past generations. That's why, as a serious player and as a pokefan, I don't like colosseum.

[andyizcool]

I wanted all the Legendary Beasts, Espeon, Umbreon, and Hitmontop again quickly for Pokemon Leaf Green so I looked back to Pokemon Colosseum. I haven't played this game in months since I first bought it back when it was released into the UK. I can't stick with it to get these Pokemon I need for Pokemon Leaf Green because the Story Mode just bores me too much and annoys me. I had a go at Battle Mode with my Pokemon FR/LG Team only to find out they still cheat and the battles aren't that good. The only thing I would recommend Pokemon Colosseum for is 3D Pokemon Battles or the pre-owned shelf. I would like to test out Wireless Battles on Pokemon FR/LG more than 3D Pokemon Battles that Pokemon Colosseum has to offer right now too. I also feel the same as Orion about Pokemon Emerald that they rushed Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire because they could have added so much more like there is in Pokemon Emerald.

[rinku]

I'd beg to differ about the "rushed" nature of R/S. When they developed R/S they were already putting a whole lot of new stuff out that had never been seen, and new versions of old ways of doing things (like the pokémon status screens). Feedback from R/S was obviously used to improve FR/LG (i.e. the improved pokédex etc) and further feedback from FR/LG and R/S seems to have been used to improve Emerald. There's 2 years between the release of R/S and Emerald, and in that time we have also seen the development and release of Colosseum, the Gameboy SP, the wireless adaptor and the upcoming DS (which will be out before the US release of Emerald). Some of these things would have been anticipated when Ruby and Sapphire was being developed, but I reckon they did a superb job of delivering a pair of balanced, enjoyable and addictive games.

Having said that, I'm sure they looked at some game options (like animated sprites) and said "We'll hold off on that for the special edition cart". Let's face it - without loads of extras, special edition carts don't sell. That's not rushed production either, but typical pokémon trickle marketing.

I agree that Colosseum is genuinely a rushed job, but am with Orion in being able to enjoy it while wishing it were much more.

[PKMN Master]

I'd beg to differ about the "rushed" nature of R/S. When they developed R/S they were already putting a whole lot of new stuff out that had never been seen, and new versions of old ways of doing things (like the pokémon status screens). Feedback from R/S was obviously used to improve FR/LG (i.e. the improved pokédex etc) and further feedback from FR/LG and R/S seems to have been used to improve Emerald. There's 2 years between the release of R/S and Emerald, and in that time we have also seen the development and release of Colosseum, the Gameboy SP, the wireless adaptor and the upcoming DS (which will be out before the US release of Emerald). Some of these things would have been anticipated when Ruby and Sapphire was being developed, but I reckon they did a superb job of delivering a pair of balanced, enjoyable and addictive games.

Having said that, I'm sure they looked at some game options (like animated sprites) and said "We'll hold off on that for the special edition cart". Let's face it - without loads of extras, special edition carts don't sell. That's not rushed production either, but typical pokémon trickle marketing.

I agree that Colosseum is genuinely a rushed job, but am with Orion in being able to enjoy it while wishing it were much more.

Yes, they did add many things to RS, in fact, they totally changed the metagame... from what I've read, you were not around in GSC times... battles were pretty much stall wars, and they got boring at some point... the new battling style changed many things. Now battles can last only 6 or 7 turns, while it would have taken at least 30 in GSC. But they left many things unfinished. Like with the berries that take off evs, those are the most precious thing ever! and also the IV heritage was fixed, among other things...

and what I mean with stepdown, is that they took out many features of GSC, time, cell phone, day-night, two worlds... they made up for that up until now with FRLG and Emerald...

[rinku]

and what I mean with stepdown, is that they took out many features of GSC, time, cell phone, day-night, two worlds... they made up for that up until now with FRLG and Emerald...

You can be sure that every feature they took out of GSC, they had a reason - none of them really impacted in terms of game resources. For example, I know that there had been a lot of negative feedback about the screen being too dark to see at night (Keep in mind that R/S was developed for the original GBA - no lit screen). These days they can assume a lit screen and develop accordingly.

Time was not removed from R/S - but I agree it was odd they didn't add a display clock (apart from going to your room). Perhaps the fact that GBAs don't actually keep very good time had some bearing on them downgrading that feature? There may have been complaints about kids staying up to midnight to get 12:00am events as well.

As for not including Kanto & Johto... chalk that up to a growing realisation that if they kept doing that with every release, that's pretty much all they'd have room for.

[Aarkan]

For what it's worth I genuinely enjoyed Colosseum. I got the 3D pokemon RPG I dreamed of and it played out with a unique leveling and capturing system as well as having the game entirely in double battles (which are much more fun and challenging than normal battles) and they connected it to the GB games so what you earned while progressing through the limited single player mode in Colosseum could go into the infinite world of Ruby/Sapphire, FireRed/LeafGreen and finally Emerald. Hey, if you don't like Colosseum then don't play it. I bought it expecting it to be Pokemon Stadium 3 but it wasn't and I got over that to discover 20 hours of entertaining gameplay to keep me busy in the last week of summer. Now i've got the johto starters that make me the envy of my friends and a couple of old favorites that had been missed throughout Ru/Sa.

Meh, whatever.

[PKMN Master]

You can be sure that every feature they took out of GSC, they had a reason - none of them really impacted in terms of game resources. For example, I know that there had been a lot of negative feedback about the screen being too dark to see at night (Keep in mind that R/S was developed for the original GBA - no lit screen). These days they can assume a lit screen and develop accordingly.

Time was not removed from R/S - but I agree it was odd they didn't add a display clock (apart from going to your room). Perhaps the fact that GBAs don't actually keep very good time had some bearing on them downgrading that feature? There may have been complaints about kids staying up to midnight to get 12:00am events as well.

As for not including Kanto & Johto... chalk that up to a growing realisation that if they kept doing that with every release, that's pretty much all they'd have room for.

Remember that the GBC was designed to reflect light, so it was quite dark ar night too, but that didn't stop them from putting day/night in GSC. And yes, of course time wasn't removed, but the always useful clock was (at some point I used to have it near my bed and turn it on just to see the time :p) but what do u mean with "GBAs don't keep very good time? I would think that the GBA is highly superior to the GBC, and they still put time in the GSC versions ...

and yet, the major improvement was given in the metagame: completely new IV system, the EV cap, natures, new growth rate formulas, separate values for gender, "shinyness", hidden power, etc. But they got short movewise. They didn't add any legal way to get moves onto some pokemon. Say Typhlosion and Electabuzz(I know they weren't in the game, but online their power has hindered like never before). Also, they left us without a major breeding utility: Ditto. The IV heritage odds were bugged, as you well know... if you screwed up with EVs there was no way back, which is annoying for your first team (starter and such)... they realized how much of a buttache was to get good pogeys: right nature, Ivs, moves, gender... gosh, even the Berry Glitch!!

And comparing FRLG with RS, if you notice the font they used, the FRLG is much easier to read, and smooth to the eye, added many effects and devices to the game. All technical stuff was also fixed and improved in Emerald...

[Razola]

EVs and IVs are not improvements, they are just hidden numbers to make things more needlessly complicated.

[Rudoku]

Remember that the GBC was designed to reflect light, so it was quite dark ar night too, but that didn't stop them from putting day/night in GSC.

Obvoiusly, someone important didn't like that stuff. I know I didn't.