BTPoke's Blissful Tempora Pizzeria

[Greyfox]

Yay, it's here! The last year of the world! Go nuts!

[Oslo]

*loots Grey's house*

Anarchyyy!

[Blademaster]

My mom didn't think it was very funny when I said "Here's to the last New Year's ever!" on the midnight of the 31st-1st.

She doesn't have much of a sense of humor for stuff like that.

[Ayeun]

[Oslo]

This might seem a little out of the blue, but it's been a while since we've had a good ol' discussion. Since I'm currently trying to procrastinate on coursework and I have a question on my mind, it seems like high time to start one...

How do you guys feel about overwhelming type advantages? Is there (or should there be) an unspoken battle etiquette surrounding this sort of thing?

Hypothetical situation time! Let's say (*randomly reaches for names*) Cynder challenges Wolfsong to a match and kicks off with a Leavanny. Wolfsong, however, counters by sending out a Magmortar... and starts pummelling the frack out of Leavanny with Fire Blast after Fire Blast. Damage cap or no, Cynder's Pogey will soon be toast, right? There's only so much that can be done to counter this kind of tactic.

How do you guys feel about this sort of weakness abuse? Do we pat Wolfsong on the back for having effectively targeted a clear vulnerability or look down upon this kind of "strategy" as brainless and contemptible? Moreover, did Cynder make a dumb tactical error by having blindly sent a Pokemon with a mammoth-sized Achilles heel into battle?

Just curious. And lazy. Stupid coursework. :x

[Blademaster]

It may seem a bit underhanded, but any weakness that can be exploited in a battle is one more advantage you have against otherwise overwhelming odds. That Magmortar could score a quick victory only to wind up facing a Kingdra in the next round.

I've learned from the school of hard knocks time and time again that even the seemingly dumbest move an opponent can make shouldn't be underestimated. Because more often than not, your opponent will be EXPECTING that underestimation and be prepared to use it to an even greater advantage than you did your type superiority. Going by the metaphorical example, Cynder and Wolfsong will now both be down one Pokemon. The difference will be that Cynder will be down one piece of cannon fodder and poised to attack with a Pokemon that has only ONE weakness (which it can contest very efficiently), whereas Wolfsong will have already lost a pinch-hitter and may, in the long run, have nothing with the tactical prowess to keep up that early momentum.

[DarkestLight]

>.> Jumping on this. Nice question.

There is a bit of a Catch 22 when it comes to battling. Whether its here, on actually online (Side note, wtf my 3DS AND MY pOKEMON GAMES WONT GET ONLINE TO BATTLE ANYMORE >o)..YOU have to make a decision as to what happens when you battle. In the situation posted, Cynder didn't know that a Magmortar was coming out. She wanted to use a Leavanny, maybe she had some crazy awesome idea she wanted to try, and she got stuck fighting a Magmortar. Now she could cry foul, and just mope as she gets worked over, or she can at least set something up for her the next Pokemon, or..swap out!

You can always switch, or you can always bitch :/. I prefer switching, allows me to take a nasty hit, but I'll recoup something awesome. Besides, I note many a time when a weakness has been exploited, only for the exploiter to lose the Pokemon.

In all-I feel its the battlers confidence in their Pokemon battling prowess that allows them to use whomever they so choose in any situation, and then to try and survive what may seem to be overwhelming odds.

[Oslo]

Interesting. Makes me wonder if/how the situation changes when you make this hypothetical battle a 1 on 1? No Kingdra comeback, no switching.

DL is definitely in a position to talk about overcoming insurmountable odds, though... that one battle I reffed where his Toxicroak had Psychic spammed against him and still kicked ass was ep-ic.

[Blademaster]

See the first line of my last response for my answer to that last scenario.

[DarkestLight]

Blade:

I'll take your answer and ask you this. The concept of overwhelming odds on a one on one are drastically shifted when its a heavy type advantage such as this. Feasibly, could you-or anyone, contemplate a strategy that would at least make the battle somewhat balanced?

I haven't looked over Leavenny in quite some time, now I'm curious. Oh and Oslo. I had no idea wtf you were talking about untIl I looked it up XD. My memory is baaaad XD

[MeLoVeGhOsTs]

Well most of my steel/rock or ground pokemon had double weaknesses, you just kinda dunno, juggle around it? Write some epic commands, or try a new strategy. Or switch (when allowed or possible, though).

I feel like battling. I'll need a one on one, or a double battle!

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

I feel like battling. I'll need a one on one, or a double battle!

Hey! May I propose a one on one? It might be my first complete rematch. I have an idea for the arena shaping on my mind! Also, may I request a restriction to basic stage Pokemon?

[Ayeun]

Well most of my steel/rock or ground pokemon had double weaknesses, you just kinda dunno, juggle around it? Write some epic commands, or try a new strategy. Or switch (when allowed or possible, though).

I feel like battling. I'll need a one on one, or a double battle!

Hey! May I propose a one on one? It might be my first complete rematch. I have an idea for the arena shaping on my mind! Also, may I request a restriction to basic stage Pokemon?

Consider yourselves' Reffed! Read - SHOTGUN

Yes, that's right. Your fearless Princess is stepping up and reffing more this year!

[MeLoVeGhOsTs]

'like'

[Blademaster]

Blade:

I'll take your answer and ask you this. The concept of overwhelming odds on a one on one are drastically shifted when its a heavy type advantage such as this. Feasibly, could you-or anyone, contemplate a strategy that would at least make the battle somewhat balanced?

I wouldn't send out a Pokemon with such a horrible disadvantage in a 1-on-1 anyway. Except when I sent out Rawk Hawk against all those Dragons and such in my All-Comers' Challenge... Even then...

...Well, I guess the short answer is that it CAN be done. But it'd require more cheese than Wisconsin's entire industrial history has produced in order to pull off with any form of consistency. You'd have to have plans for EVERYTHING the opponent would be throwing at you.

And I'll admit, off the top of my head, I can't think of a way for a Leavanny to take down a Magmortar. I'm not Batman. Leavanny is part-Grass, so access to a move like Sleep Powder or Grasswhistle would probably be one of my earlier ideas.

[Oslo]

Leavanny is part-Grass, so access to a move like Sleep Powder or Grasswhistle would probably be one of my earlier ideas.

Haha, I actually chose Magmortar specifically so Vital Spirit (assuming that was the ability in question) could trump those sleep attacks. So ends Oslo's fun fact of the evening. (But on closer examination, Leavanny gets Entrainment, so maybe there's hope after all? )

[MeLoVeGhOsTs]

Leavanny is a weaving pokemon i'd make Mortar a straitjacket out of String Shot.

Also, depending on the arena Camouflage could work.

You also have Me First, Air Slash and Return to count on. Maybe even Bug Bite if you play your cards right.

And as a last resort, she can Agility-Calm mind-Swordsdance-Hone Claws and Baton Pass it to another team member.

Or Flail+Swordsdance+Endure.

Yeah, that's what I got out of Leavanny's movepool.

[Blademaster]

Vital Spirit wouldn't block Stun Spore.

Or if that isn't available for Leavanny, then String Shot, yes, that'd be a go-to option as well.

[DarkestLight]

Well, thanks to Oslo, I have another question.

What Pokemon do you feel is grossly misrepresented in the games or the anime. I don't necessarily mean battle wise, but maybe character wise. I ask because (and I don't mean the need for a preevo-evo)

I feel that some Pokemon really look pretty fun to use, but they get a bad wrap, maybe because they have an exploitable weakness...or they have a shallow movepool, or they evolve at such a high level (Hydriegon >.>.....)

[Oslo]

I'm tempted to say the Gulpin line. Gulpin is rarely encountered in RSE and, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there is even a single NPC in all of the Gen III handhelds who uses a Swalot. (This might not be accurate, but I'm straining to remember a single one.) Moreover, they're a post-National Dex only Pogey in DPP and need to be traded into BW. Overall, its representation is terrible. The meta-game isn't kind to Swalot, either, since it's basically a less functional version of Muk.

In the anime, Gulpin has appeared in only two episodes (the most recent airing in 2006) and Swalot has only had a few cameos here and there. If it weren't for the fact that Gulpin appears in SSBB, I'd probably be writing angry letters to someone. Gulpin line is cool!

EDIT: And now that I think of it, you don't see Gulpin/Swalot that often here in ASB. Dogfish's is the only one I can recall.

[chaos_redefined]

Ayeun: Chaos, you should come back.
Me: Later.
Ayeun: Chaos, you should come back.
Me: Later.
Ayeun: Chaos, you should come back.
Me: Later.
Ayeun: Chaos, you should come back.
Me: Later.
Ayeun: Chaos, you should come back.
Me: Fine.

So, hi everyone! Long time, no see!

[DarkestLight]

Hello Chaos. Long time no see :/

[Ayeun]

Ayeun: Chaos, you should come back.
Me: Later.
Ayeun: Chaos, you should come back.
Me: Later.
Ayeun: Chaos, you should come back.
Me: Later.
Ayeun: Chaos, you should come back.
Me: Later.
Ayeun: Chaos, you should come back.
Me: Fine.

So, hi everyone! Long time, no see!

That's exactly how it happened too!! Wahahaha~!

[MeLoVeGhOsTs]

'like'

[Blademaster]

Any 'evil' Pokemon is typically misrepresented or unrepresented. Lots of Poison and Dark Pokemon fall victim to this because of their use by Team X Y and Z, but the worst by far is probably Beedrill. Like most Bug-types, its use in the games is typically regulated to Bug Catchers and the occasional melting pot trainer, like a Cool Trainer or somesuch.

In the anime, though, poor Beedrill is basically the posterchild for asshole Pokemon. It doesn't matter if the thing has been with you for 50 years and saved your life 4 times. It doesn't matter if it was a cute little squirmy worm a week ago. It doesn't matter if the Goddamn thing runs a multi-million Pokedollar charity, blood drive, AND soup kitchen. If it's a Beedrill, the anime Universe decrees it to be a constantly pissed-off mindless murder machine that wants nothing more than to call its 800 equally pissed-off friends over so they can all shove their three stingers into every hole you have, and then subsequently make more holes, until there's nothing left but a shredded corpse full of blood and honey.

[chaos_redefined]

Gyarados was treated similarly to how you describe Beedrill, if I remember correctly. Although I think that was more blind rage than wanting to tear as many holes into you as possible.

[Ayeun]

Hmm... I think I only ever saw 2 Vileplume... And in the games, I only ever saw them under Erika (Red/blue/green/yellow/Fire red/Leaf green only).

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

Any 'evil' Pokemon is typically misrepresented or unrepresented. Lots of Poison and Dark Pokemon fall victim to this because of their use by Team X Y and Z, but the worst by far is probably Beedrill. Like most Bug-types, its use in the games is typically regulated to Bug Catchers and the occasional melting pot trainer, like a Cool Trainer or somesuch.

In the anime, though, poor Beedrill is basically the posterchild for asshole Pokemon. It doesn't matter if the thing has been with you for 50 years and saved your life 4 times. It doesn't matter if it was a cute little squirmy worm a week ago. It doesn't matter if the Goddamn thing runs a multi-million Pokedollar charity, blood drive, AND soup kitchen. If it's a Beedrill, the anime Universe decrees it to be a constantly pissed-off mindless murder machine that wants nothing more than to call its 800 equally pissed-off friends over so they can all shove their three stingers into every hole you have, and then subsequently make more holes, until there's nothing left but a shredded corpse full of blood and honey.

There's at least one exception in the anime. Kenta/Jimmy, the hero of the Crystral Special Raikou Legend of Thunder, has a Beedrill and uses it for instance to save his friend Marina from Team Rocket. But this is just nitpicking.

[MeLoVeGhOsTs]

I admired that special so much for using Beedrill!

[RaZoR LeAf]

Soo.... November and December were bad times for me, I think work stressed me out and I compensated by cutting down on things that I shouldn't have, like ASB. I've also had connection problems for the best part of January and last week it cut out entirely. Just got a new router today which means I'm back online. I need to catch up on what I've missed, and hopefully I'll be back in the game. If the battles I was reffing, or taking part in are still going, I'm happy to continue, but that's entirely up to the people who I've left waiting, so I'll let you guys decide.

[Oslo]

Good to have you back! I'm pretty sure Ayeun and I are both game if you wanted to continue reffing our six-on-six battle, but it's up to you.

[Ayeun]

WELCOME BACK MR LEAF! *Attack hug*

[chaos_redefined]

Just to check, who's still around? And where did everyone else go?

[MeLoVeGhOsTs]

People kinda left since the awesomeness that is me was occupied. I'm here now, so everyone can come back!

Also, I heard from inside sources that since Grey got modded, him and DL've been spending quite some time in a classy gaybar. Apparently, they serve one hell of a margarita there!

Awesome out!

*smoke*

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

I'm waiting for Ayeun to get her computer problem fixed and Greyfox to post his attacks in the tournament. Also some refs appearing would be good for my upcoming battles.

[Blademaster]

Wisdom teeth. Removal. Pain.

[DarkestLight]

I know that pain :/ All 4?

[Oslo]

Just wanna confirm something about how Cursed Body operates here. The Stratedex says it can only disable moves that physically hit the target. Is this referring to moves that are labelled as Physical? Meaning, can Cursed Body disable, say, Growl or Gust?

[DarkestLight]

Physical contact. A limb from the opponent must touch the Frillish (So Cursed Body wouldn't work range Physical moves; things like Rock Slide, Earthquake etc.)

EQ being an exception if said Eq'er grabs Frillish and slams it tot he ground, forcing the Earthquake energy to ripple through, then Cursed Body could work on it...la.

[Blademaster]

I know that pain :/ All 4?

Not yet, just the two on the left since they were in worse shape. One had a nice chunk missing from the rear; the other had a hole in the anterior side so big that the dentist pliers couldn't grab a hold of it properly.

Thankfully the pain is receding (I think), but the replacement sensation of wanting to tear out the damn dissolvable stitches and shove a Tylenol into either socket is keeping me from getting a good night's sleep. And I keep waking up sweaty which makes me think I have a fever.

Memo to self: Brush teeth constantly from now on. I'm getting too old to deal with this shit...