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Thread: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election

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  1. #11
    Plant of the Century Cool Trainer
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    Default Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Vulpix
    Yes, I'm a human being, thanks for noticing! But you're not making it sound like a good thing.

    Anyway, spades won't fight back, but people will. If you insult someone, you're not encouraging to improve his behavior. On the contrary, he'll now be more likely to respond in kind.
    I didn't mean it to sound patronizing. I'm simply suggesting that I'm not so cowed by this infraction that I don't think this a point worth arguing.

    There's a difference between an insult, which is generally unfounded, and an indictment of character. It's not possible to address the wrong action without addressing the actor. There's no way to address bigotry without implying that someone is a bigot. And not calling someone out on this fact is doing absolutely nothing to end the persistence of bigotry.

    It's true, a positive tact is often better. People can be coaxed, encouraged to improve themselves. But not in every instance. And when something is heinous enough, fault is warranted.

    But I completely agree that what I said was a violation of the policy here against flaming.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Karrde
    His duty is to protect American lives, not to playcate [sic] the Libyan Government. If he placed the happiness of the Libyan Government over the lives of American men and women then he is not fit to hold office.
    If. The argument you present here is a straw man. It's not as if it was a simple trade-off of "placate" or "protect." I doubt the intention by the president was this simple, or that the foreign policy concerns of the attacks were so readily truncated. But even if it they were, it is also entirely possible that the president thought he was taking the best course, which would succeed in achieving both those aims.

    If we judged presidents solely on the basis of their foreign policy decisions, and moreover, on the basis of their worst foreign policy decision, I assure you that absolutely none of them would be fit to hold office. Instead, we hope, against hope, that they will do the best they can under the circumstances. Oftentimes, they disappoint us. And they should be held accountable. And we should be angry. But that doesn't mean that the same presidents that disappointed us aren't capable of making the right decisions, or choosing the right policies. Mistakes are learned from, not forgotten.
    Last edited by Plantae; 8th November 2012 at 12:53 PM.


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